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Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
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Samseau Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
(02-20-2012 12:51 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  Those interested in the whole "extinction of marriage" topic really need to check out the blogger Xenocrates' take on the issue. It can be found here: Part 1 and Part 2.

This is the most well-reasoned and logically sound discussion on the coming demise of marriage I've ever seen. A little long, but an absolute must-read.

Anytime someone says something is "must-read", I usually skip over it.

But because you posted it, I clicked on the links. I looked. I saw a bunch of redundant points stated by guys like Roissy 2-3 years ago and other MRA bloggers over 5 years ago. I closed the links. Xenocrates is too wordy and heavy on style, and low on originality, for me to read seriously.

"The better something is understood, the simpler it may be explained."

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(This post was last modified: 02-20-2012 12:59 AM by Samseau.)
02-20-2012 12:58 AM
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Excelsior Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
(02-20-2012 12:58 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Anytime someone says something is "must-read", I usually skip over it.

But because you posted it, I clicked on the links. I looked. I saw a bunch of redundant points stated by guys like Roissy 2-3 years ago and other MRA bloggers over 5 years ago. I closed the links. Xenocrates is too wordy and heavy on style, and low on originality, for me to read seriously.

"The better something is understood, the simpler it may be explained."

To each their own...
02-20-2012 01:01 AM
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kdolo Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
(02-18-2012 11:47 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  From: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/you...tml?ref=us

Quote:In Lorain, Ohio, many women interviewed said joblessness and criminal behavior among men have limited the number of marriage-worthy companions. More Photos »
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: February 18, 2012



LORAIN, Ohio — Marriage has lost its luster in Lorain, Ohio.


Sixty-three percent of all births to women under 30 in Lorain County occur outside marriage, according to Child Trends, a research center in Washington. That figure has risen by more than two-thirds over the past two decades, and now surpasses the national figure of 53 percent.

The change has transformed life in Lorain, a ragged industrial town on Lake Erie. Churches perform fewer weddings. Applications for marriage licenses are down by a third. Just a tenth of the students at the local community college are married, but its campus has a bustling day care center.

The New York Times interviewed several dozen people in Lorain about marriage here. What follows are their stories.

Young parents spoke of an economy that was fundamentally different from in their parents’ time, and that required more than a high school education for fathers to be stable breadwinners. They talked of how little they trusted each other to be reliable mates, and of how the government safety net encourages poor parents to stay single.

Tony Cruz, a father of two, has felt the effects of Lorain’s economic decline first hand. His father, a high school graduate, worked at a steel plant and provided middle-class trappings like a house and a car for his family. Mr. Cruz, 31, with the same level of education, has done mostly seasonal work in construction and repair, as factory jobs, far fewer than in his father’s day, have been hard to come by.

Now unemployed, he is taking a class at Lorain County Community College, whose main campus is in nearby Elyria. Mr. Cruz, who has never married, got custody of his children after their mother developed a drug habit. He spends his days driving them to school and his girlfriend — who is not their mother — to her job at a flower shop.

“You feel really low when you can’t help your family out,” Mr. Cruz said. He said he would not consider working in a fast food restaurant or a store because the wages are much lower than in construction.

Joblessness and run-ins with the law are so prevalent among young men in Lorain that many women interviewed said they had given up on finding a suitable mate. Angel Ives, a nursing student at the community college, said she did not want to bring another man into her family after her daughter’s father, a groundskeeper for sports fields, was jailed on assault charges. Ms. Ives, 32, works in a nursing home while attending college, and said she was too tired to date. She jokes that her idea of a perfect suitor is someone who will come to her house to baby-sit while she naps.

“A baby makes a woman grow up, but not a man,” she said. “I can’t imagine ever depending on a man. I don’t trust them.”

Older residents blamed the decline in marriage on government aid. Mary Grasso, a retired sweet shop owner, said men had stopped taking responsibility for their children because the state had stepped in with safety net programs. Ms. Grasso, 70, experienced the decline in weddings directly: Wedding cake orders fell by half during the 30-plus years she was in business.

“It’s too easy for them,” she said of young people. “There are no restrictions anymore. And we are taking care of all of these children.”

Many women described a lifestyle of dating in which relationships sometimes resulted in children, but less often in fathers deeply involved in their families. Judge David Basinski of Lorain County Domestic Relations Court, in Elyria, said he recently had a case in which a man who had nine children by six women owed $55,000 in back child support. Child support cases have become so common among unmarried parents that the court now gives seminars on parental responsibilities.

“For a long time I believed it was happening among people who didn’t have that much money,” he said of the trend toward births outside marriage. “But now we are moving to a much broader category.”

Several married people who were interviewed said they had wed later in life, often after having children. Pamela Noble-Garner, a nursing home worker who is taking stenography classes at the community college, said she married for the first time at age 37, years after having two children by two men. Her husband, a prison guard, is involved in the lives of his own previous children, a quality that drew her to him. Ms. Noble-Garner, who grew up as one of six siblings in a household run by a single mother, said her father was rarely in her life, an absence she regrets

“We can all stick our chests out and say, ‘We don’t need no man to raise our babies,’ ” Ms. Noble-Garner said. “I would honestly tell them, ‘Honey, yes you do. You might not need him financially, but your baby needs a father.’ ”


The tone of this article is astonishing. Apparently all men are unemployed criminals, and unworthy of overweight single mothers.

What's even more noteworthy is that the NYTimes is one of the only (relatively) serious news sources left in American media and they're printing garbage like this.

Ihave to disagree with you. The NY Times is garbage. Pure propaganda garbage. worthy only for its use at the bottom of a birdcage.
02-20-2012 10:03 PM
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blurb Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
Quote:You guys are completely missing the great news of this article.

A lot of us travel to third world countries to bang women there because of our higher status as Americans. Well CONGRATULATIONS! The US just carved a third world country WITHIN America.

Although I agree that I'm all for adapting, profiting, and being aware of what's going on, civilizational decline is nothing to be proud of nor is it to be a cause for joy or celebration.

People who worry about how they're going to pay their month's rent to avoid homelessness kind of enjoy this whole "civilization" idea. I'm guessing you've never been poor or on welfare.

If you guys are really into civilizational decline just because you'll get pussy a bit easier, go to Zimbabwe. You'll really be a hit among the ladies.

Quote:You mentioned Latin America in your post. I have spent a significant amount of time down there. What I have noticed is that you have a minority doing pretty well and a majority living a fucked up existence. Do I want my country to turn into that? NO. However, IF it does (which I have ZERO control over), I know that I want to be in the well off minority as opposed to the exploited masses.

This is wishful thinking. And just how will you enter the top 1% powerful elite club membership? I hear it's very exclusive.

You don't think that anything bad can happen to you in life.

You don't think that you can lose everything in the blink of an eye in one day. Your house. Your car. Your job. Your family. Your kids.

You don't think that people can ruin your life or do things that hurt you.

When you fall through the cracks, you'll be singing a different tune.

Succeed, Develop, Grow, and Lead
02-25-2012 08:22 PM
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Basil Ransom Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Young Mothers Describe Marriage's Fading Allure
Joehoya, I like the idea of your strategy, but I don't really see it panning out. I see from a distance a fair amount of poor, trashier girls, and they're not in any rush to marry up. If they're attractive, they're hanging with ballsy dudes with muscles and tats. They're not Cinderellas. Or they stream into the city working shitty jobs and partying. I've never been in a white trash neighborhood and felt like it was pussy paradise, that it was any easier to get pussy than a middle or upper middle class one. You mentioned CVS - is your friend meeting these chicks via daygame?

The problem is that as more people become lower class, women will get uglier, fatter and trashier.

It'd be interesting to see how your success rate varies between chicks from stable families and those from unstable ones. I suspect that I connect much better with girls from stable families.

If I were the supreme dictator of the US, I'd make it the law that for a woman to extract child support from a man, she must have his consent. And probably dissolve all of the government policies that are letting women earn so much money for either doing bullshit, non wealth-creating work, or working in a sector that gets too much money for doing too little. That means healthcare, education, law, human resources, and marketing. Take away the baby trap and the she-conomy, and the women of America would be singing a different tune.
02-25-2012 09:23 PM
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