Post: #51

(09-11-2012 04:57 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 04:33 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 04:19 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 04:10 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 12:56 PM)bacon Wrote:  i love pink floyd and any dead song with jerry on vocals

if i never heard a beatles song i dont think i would have missed out

I would wager 1000 dollars bacon that every member of pink floyd and the greatful dead would acknowledge the beatles as their superiors and creators of better music (even as an inspiration). And for that matter 95 percent of rock groups. Maybe, the members of the Stones or Led Zeppelin wouldnt admit it. The great ones are the best at knowing who is the best. Can say the same of any great athlete or artist. As i am seeing, most fans are too biased to give an objection opinion.

I can't speak for the Dead, but if you knew anything about Waters, Gilmore, Mason, or Wright, there's no way they'd make any admission like that. While Waters and Lennon acknowledged mutual respect, what Pink Floyd accomplished was 1000x more complex and experimental than anything The Beatles ever did.

The experimental thing is debatable.....the beatles were originators, experimentalist au extrordanaire and created most of their best music 10 years before Pink Floyd created their best. In those 10 years there was a huge amount of development in recorded music ...the beatles mainly used 4 track, for example. And to me, the essence of great music isnt how experimental you are. Just tell me how many classics one band has vs the other and it is pretty easy to tell which is better. The Beatles have around 100. Pink Floyd is damn good and love them too, but maybe they have 15.
Any, Waters had one of the biggest egos in Rock history, but Im sure Gilmore would admit it. Im sure I have heard an interview or 2 from him where he acknowledges the fact.

At the end of the day you just can't compare. You could argue Mozart has more recognizable pieces, but that doesn't make him a better composer than Beethoven.

There is no "best".

The Beatles may have written more conventionally beautiful music, but they never created a track like Echoes off the Meddle album. Their average song time was never more than a few minutes. This puts them in the "pop" category for me. Even their "experimental" stuff from Revolver, Sgt. Peppers, and Magical Mystery Tour pales in comparison to tracks coming from Pink Floyd or King Crimson.

In terms of "easiness on the ears" I don't think you can do better than the Beatles. But I never get that emotional/intellectual roller coaster from any of their albums like I get from albums like Meddle, Obscured By Clouds, or Animals.

Dude, I agree the emotional/intellectual experience for every man is to varying degrees different in women, art, sports, music, countries, etc. But lets at least admit that there are 3 or 4 that could be considered the best in music, just like Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson or Bill Russell in basketball.
Mozart and Beethoven are so close, so I could never judge which is better. But one thing that one knows as a musician, is that the best music is usually the simplest....at least in terms of melody. Those great simple melodies are what last and affect all generations.
I feel like I am talking to women when i discuss music with most men, even if they are alpha in everything else.
Remember when I played Stairway to Heaven to a Chinese girl and she got bored and wanted to hear Lady Gaga haha.

Post: #52

(09-11-2012 09:10 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  Mozart and Beethoven are so close, so I could never judge which is better.

You have a lot of catching up to do. They're nothing alike.

Mozart's music has a boy-ish quality about them. Makes sense considering he died so young and wrote many of his famous pieces in his teens and early 20s. Beautiful music overall but his music wouldn't inspire revolt or uprising.

Beethoven changed the game. He wrote themes for heroes and gods. Listen to the transition from the 3rd to 4th movement in the 5th symphony. Hell, just listen to that entire symphony about 20 times, in the dark, by yourself. Then move onto the 7th. Then the 6th. Check out his 5th piano concerto. Then check out the Tripelkonzert. Work in the piano sonatas in there somewhere. At the end of it, go ahead with the 9th symphony, but I think that's the kind of piece you never really understand until you're much older.

In terms of the "best", best what? Best guitarist, best songwriter, best poet, what? I will concede that The Beatles are one of the, if not THE greatest band of all time, and quite possibly the greatest songwriters that have lived and created music together, but not the best ROCK band, and certainly not the best instrumentalists.

Post: #53

(09-11-2012 09:36 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(09-11-2012 09:10 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  Mozart and Beethoven are so close, so I could never judge which is better.

You have a lot of catching up to do. They're nothing alike.

Mozart's music has a boy-ish quality about them. Makes sense considering he died so young and wrote many of his famous pieces in his teens and early 20s. Beautiful music overall but his music wouldn't inspire revolt or uprising.

Beethoven changed the game. He wrote themes for heroes and gods. Listen to the transition from the 3rd to 4th movement in the 5th symphony. Hell, just listen to that entire symphony about 20 times, in the dark, by yourself. Then move onto the 7th. Then the 6th. Check out his 5th piano concerto. Then check out the Tripelkonzert. Work in the piano sonatas in there somewhere. At the end of it, go ahead with the 9th symphony, but I think that's the kind of piece you never really understand until you're much older.

In terms of the "best", best what? Best guitarist, best songwriter, best poet, what? I will concede that The Beatles are one of the, if not THE greatest band of all time, and quite possibly the greatest songwriters that have lived and created music together, but not the best ROCK band, and certainly not the best instrumentalists.

Dude, I meant that Beethoven and Mozart are too close in terms of quality and greatness....not in terms of musical or stylistic similarity. It is like the beatles and the rolling stones....both are great but the stones are more blues based (though both have chuck berry as their main influence). But with those 2 bands, there is too much evidence to suggest that the Beatles were the greater. With Beethoven and Mozart it is too damn close....then it is just a matter of opinion.

Post: #54

This is such a retarded debate. The post should have been titled, "The Most INFLUENTIAL Band of All Times...The Beatles?". The answer to that questions is unquestionably: Yes.

And to thedude3737, Mozart and Beethoven both wrote perfect music but the difference is that Mozart could sit down and write an entire symphony in a day or so without ever having to revise anything. All he needed was time and a piece of paper. Beethoven languished and labored over his pieces for months and years, revising them over and over but eventually reaching the level of perfection. Most musical historians are of the opinion that Mozart was the greatest musical mind in the history of Western music. To have complete symphonies in your head where the only hindrance in completing them is how fast you can actually write has only occurred two or three times in all of recorded history. Beethoven and Mozart are the two greatest musical minds in Western musical history, but Beethoven lacked the savant-level genius that Mozart possessed. And one final note, Mozart's music has a 'boyish' quality to it because he was writing and perfecting the earlier Classical mode. Beethoven chose to write in a newer, more emotional style which came to be known as Romantic mode. Classical and Romantic are two totally different styles. Beethoven also had the benefit of having Mozart's entire canon at his disposal from which to build off of.

Post: #55

(09-10-2012 01:54 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  After many years I still can't choose which lead singer is better.

Bon Scott, the old singer who died (of drinking).

or

Brian Johnson, lead singer for the last 30 years.
[/video]

THIS..

AC/DC Rock and Roll!!

Post: #56

my favourite band for the longest time was the smiths, but then i stopped being a loser

Post: #57

(09-12-2012 01:19 AM)Farmageddon Wrote:  This is such a retarded debate. The post should have been titled, "The Most INFLUENTIAL Band of All Times...The Beatles?". The answer to that questions is unquestionably: Yes.

And to thedude3737, Mozart and Beethoven both wrote perfect music but the difference is that Mozart could sit down and write an entire symphony in a day or so without ever having to revise anything. All he needed was time and a piece of paper. Beethoven languished and labored over his pieces for months and years, revising them over and over but eventually reaching the level of perfection. Most musical historians are of the opinion that Mozart was the greatest musical mind in the history of Western music. To have complete symphonies in your head where the only hindrance in completing them is how fast you can actually write has only occurred two or three times in all of recorded history. Beethoven and Mozart are the two greatest musical minds in Western musical history, but Beethoven lacked the savant-level genius that Mozart possessed. And one final note, Mozart's music has a 'boyish' quality to it because he was writing and perfecting the earlier Classical mode. Beethoven chose to write in a newer, more emotional style which came to be known as Romantic mode. Classical and Romantic are two totally different styles. Beethoven also had the benefit of having Mozart's entire canon at his disposal from which to build off of.

I don't know what "musical historians" you're quoting but I'm pretty sure they would give the title of "greatest musical mind" to Bach.

While Mozart was constrained to the Classical form, Beethoven followed it as well, he just chose to infuse it with more heroic and rebellious themes. And while you make some mention of Romanticism, I don't think there's anyone else on earth that would classify Beethoven as Romantic or bearing any resemblance to it whatsoever. Romantic you're talking Chopin, Mendelssohn, Shubert, Schumann, Brahms, etc etc etc...Beethoven might have paved the way for these guys but even if Beethoven had lived longer I highly doubt he'd be writing music that resembled the Romantics in any way. He was his own thing, and my own experience with musicians, historians, and music teachers is that Beethoven will long be considered one of the greats simple because he cannot be categorized. Mozart, Haydn, and CPE Bach are classical. Beethoven is Beethoven. The only other composer I'd put in that category would be Domenico Scarlatti, who, even though he composed during the Baroque period, wrote music that was 200 years ahead of his time and has a distinct style that bears no resemblance to what his contemporaries were doing.

Post: #58

(09-12-2012 09:09 AM)bodmon Wrote:  my favourite band for the longest time was the smiths, but then i stopped being a loser

Fuck that, the Smiths are a tight band.

Morrissey solo shit on the other hand...

Post: #59

Lynyrd Skynyrd is the best fucking band EVER!!!! The Beatles are fucking gay, and were pussies. America number 1. And that's because Johnny Cash let them be the best band EVAR!!!

British rock is gay. America number 1!

Post: #60

Ween... best band of all time?

Post: #61

(09-12-2012 12:22 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Lynyrd Skynyrd is the best fucking band EVER!!!! The Beatles are fucking gay, and were pussies. America number 1. And that's because Johnny Cash let them be the best band EVAR!!!

British rock is gay. America number 1!

Ali, I see how being an ex Marine affected your musical tastes hehe

Post: #62

Maybe I'm a little biased being a born and raised Californian who surfs but I always felt as if the Beach Boys had superior melody to the Beatles, and that Summer Days and Pet Sounds were as good as any Beatles album... but that is just opinion, music is highly subjective ofcourse