Kiev Report (2012)
I really didn't know what to make of Kiev before going in, especially with BigAlex's thread popping up literally the week before I went. I went from super high expectations follow Debauchery's promotions to super low expectations after BigAlex's. Nonetheless I was booked to go so I went with my buddy and spent 10 nights there. I'm 32, 5'11 and look white. My buddy is 33, 5'9 and looks Colombian/Middle Eastern. As discussed below, this is actually important.
Culture: Kiev is by far the most racist place I've ever been to. Everyone is openly racist, specifically towards black people and arabs especially people from Turkey. No idea why they hate black people, but they do. They hate the Turks because of the sex tourism these guys from Turkey do – come here and buy up the women. I, looking white, did much much better than my buddy who got asked multiple times if he's from Istanbul. I'm not trying to be a race troll or dissuade people from going if they are not white, but I feel it is important to know that you will have an uphill battle. My buddy still fucked a girl so it's not impossible, but I've just never seen such blatant racism so be prepared for it. It was to the point where it was comical; I'd ask girls what they thought of Turkish people just to get and watch the automatic disgust reaction on their faces. Every single time.
Next, English is not widespread there at all. You will find people that speak English, but there were plenty of times where I had girls repeat their standard phrase of "I don't understand" repeatedly until I gave up. Lots of hand gestures to get stuff, waiting at stores until the one English speaking worker had to come, etc. Right now I'm in Norway where everyone speaks English and Kiev is far, far from that.
Also, as the guy who picked us up from the airport put it, Kiev is the "white jungle." People will try to rip you off so just be aware. I knew bartenders were short changing me for example, but they were taking only about a dollar more so it was easier to just not argue. Cabbies will rip you off, have to negotiate prices ahead of time. Safety wise, I felt fine. The only remote incident was a guy flashing his gun at us when we were unknowingly talking to his drunk girlfriend at a club. However, I was always with another guy so obviously there are easier targets like lone travelers.
Lodging/Other: I got a very nice place off of central-kiev-apartments right on Kreshatik street near Independence Square. This was a huge huge benefit for us. We were walking distance to a lot of activities, dates, and clubs. It was very easy to get girls to come back whether after dates or from a club because of our location. Our balcony was high up and overlooked Kreshatik street so that was the easiest excuse to give to a girl for them to come up. Kiev generally is a cheap place, so if you can wing it spend some money on a nice place. We paid $125/night negotiated for our 2 bedroom pimp place.
Also, for a SIM card just go to any cell store and get a prepaid one. I got Kyivstar and just make sure to get on the plan for unlimited internet for a daily fee. First day I didn't do this and went through my hyrvnas in 12 hours. Next day had them put me on the better plan and it was cheap as hell.
Randomly, there is free wifi in abundance. Even on the streets sometime in public they had free wifi. Not expected but very welcome.
Costs: The exchange rate was something like 8 hyrvnas = $1. Overall, Kiev was pretty cheap. A taxi around the city center was about 50 hyrvnas. Shots of vodka range from 15 to 50 hyrvnas depending on where you are.
Food: Sucks. Ukranian food is not that great, though varenyky wasn't bad (stuffed dumpling things). Three places I recommend: (1) super cheap place cafeteria style is Puzata Hata, we ate there a lot because it was very close to us off of Kreshatik street; (2) Kureni – off the main road but it is pretty damn awesome setting. Like being in a village of sorts, and the food is amazing. Just go. (3) Pervak – near the Arena complex, can get fantastic "business lunches" for super cheap. Waitresses are pretty hot too.
Guys: Ugly ugly men. They are really no competition, they don't go after the girls really and just get drunk. I don't recall any cockblocking by them (as opposed to Poland let's say). Your other competition is foreign men. They are tougher though you will have no competition from the turks/arabs as the only girls that pay them any attention are the whores.
Girls: They are damn hot. Thin thin brunettes mostly with sharp features, though there is a strong contingent of girls that like dying their hair blonde. Very tall overall and love to dress it up. Heels, stockings and skirts or tight jeans was the norm. There were a lot of 8s and 9s in Kiev, more so than anywhere else I've seen except perhaps Russia. What this does is make the 7s more accessible and receptive than what you are used to. All the girls I got were in the 7 range, I couldn't crack it past the 8. They were either bitchy or prostitutes – for the most part not all of them. Had some interactions with 8s and maybe a makeout or two but all my real action came from 7s. And while I didn't get 8 or above, I also did not dip below a 7 as I didn't need to. I don't daygame but I think that would be a potentially better avenue to the higher end girls (of course you are familiar by now with Alex's report so it's not that easy by any stretch).
Personality wise, they are very feminine and completely believe the man should lead the interaction and assume the dominant role. Very traditional model they seek to employ, for example cooking and cleaning and having the men pay for everything. Buying drinks here for girls is considered a positive in their eyes. Touching is very accepted early in the conversation and if she is into you there will be barely any resistance. Often times after one or two sentences I had my hand on her back and if she was sitting next to me I'd have my arm kind of around her, legs touching, etc. Again this is if she's into you, I didn't go walking around touching random girls.
They are also jealous which I inadvertently found out, but it gets them very emotionally invested in you. However, you have to just sprinkle that jealousy in there, because too much and it will backfire. First example, this 19yo I had met and gone on a date with wanted to go out again at night, and I just didn't respond to her texts because I wanted to go hunting. She ended up showing up at the same club as me and I was already with another girl (had her at our table, talking to her). She saw this and texted me so I had to come up with some bullshit excuse as I had not banged the 19yo yet and wanted to. She was livid that I was with another girl and I had to calm her down, but ended up fucking her that night. Next example is my buddy and I pulled two girls from some club and bounced to another club with them. I found a girl standing alone, started chatting her up and went to the dance floor with her too. One of the girls we bounced with (mind you we had not even made out or anything) went apeshit that I was talking to another girl. We started making out and going at it hard after her outburst. Then however, my buddy tried to do the same thing (after he had made out with his girl from the two we bounced), and they saw and just got up and left. We lost out on the bang for pushing the jealousy thing too far that time.
The girls are very receptive to well dressed men. After I started going with blazers/suits I started getting a lot more attention. The 19yo I mention above basically was my girlfriend while I was there, and when I met her the first time after meeting her at the club, I was suited up and her and her friends just went nuts. One of the best feelings in the world, they were literally clawing at me like they've never seen a well-dressed guy. Also getting dressed up helps with the face control at clubs.
I love the fact that they barely eat. I had two separate girls tell me it's past 6pm and they will not eat food. One girl even said a girl's job is to be drunk and hungry. They are fully aware of their looks and know it is an asset.
Finally, I told the girls that I had moved to Kiev and was doing my work from there. I think that helped a lot to take down some of the girls, as they are suspect if you say you are just visiting. Also I didn’t have to lie about my age as they seemed to prefer that I was over 30. This applied even to the 18-19 year olds.
Tip 1: Watch out for scams. One girl my buddy pipelined tried to order herself a massive dinner when he told her we are just having drinks. He just got up and left her there when she did that. (Nice!)
Tip 2: If a girl tells you that you will have sex with her tomorrow as you are escalating, it's a lie you will never see her again. This happened to both my friend and myself. If they say that, go for the bang that night because I think that is their way of getting you to back off that night and then they either regret it or who cares why but you likely won't see them again.
Pipelining: My friend and I used ukrainedate and had multiple dates set up. Surprisingly the quality was not that bad and I got some action off of it. I had one girl tell me that 5-10 turkish guys message her a day and she just ignores it, again just another example of the racism. I also met up with some girls off of couchsurfing, but honestly it's just easier to go out and meet girls.
Game: Towards the end I had a pretty good grasp of what type of game works here. For me anyway, it was to be overly manly, very traditional (pay for drinks, tell them to make food, etc.), very aggressive with touching and escalation, and try to make them just a bit jealous. So my typically night approach would go: opener, if she hooks talk a bit flirtatiously, buy shots, maybe dance, buy more shots, do a 60years type lip stare, grab head and makeout, up the touching, try to bounce them.
Daygame: Just walk around Kreshatik, I doubt you will need to go anywhere else. As I've mentioned before I'm not a daygamer and even if I was I wouldn't make it here because I'd be out till 6am most nights and wouldn't wake up until 2pm - and at 32 it takes me almost until the next night to feel normal again.
Nightlife: There are a lot of options but we only made it to a few. Most people go out to the clubs/bars at around 12. Closing is 5-6am. Dress sharp to avoid face control. Check out their websites and facebooks that are usually pretty up to date with the nightly events. The vodka is super cheap but gave me worse hangovers. Towards the end we switched it up to whiskey and the hangovers were a lot better, but whisky is more expensive.
Vodka Bar was right next to our place so logistically it was hard to beat and we ended up here almost every night. Lots of turks/arabs go there and buy tables and take the girls with them (the girls seem to milk the drinks, but you can't approach them while they are at the table), so the total amount of girls is not really that high, but the ones there I found approachable. Drink downstairs, not upstairs as for whatever reasons the prices skyrocket on the upper level. If you buy the vodka bottle and redbull package, keep an eye on it because others will jack it. Tables there were 2000 hyrvnas deposit system where you get the table but have to spend 2000 hyrvnas.
Divan (don't know the exact spelling) is a pub type bar with live music by the Arena Complex. Lots of girls there and saw people hooking up. Good earlier type place as it closes/empties out by 12.
D'lux is the super high end club, went there on a Saturday night and got a table. I thought it was a complete waste. The minimum to spend was 5k hyrvnas which we couldn't go through but they were nice enough to give us alcohol to take home, which was useful. Girls were bitchy here and the quality was not even that much better. I do have to say though the girl they have singing at the lounge downstairs was like a siren. Gorgeous and her voice was so good I thought she was lip singing until I found out it was real. I was in awe. This was also where the dude flashed his gun at us for talking to his hot drunk girlfriend (she was walking alone). Extreme face control there, we suited up and had no problem.
Forsage we never went to, but they play more house/electronic music and it caters to a younger crowd of 18-25. Lots of girls I spoke to seemed to like it.
Arena club. Closed for renovations when I was there so didn't go, but was recommended by a lot of people.
Carribean club. Didn't go but heard it's fun.
Buddha Bar is quite the scene. Very nice place for a date I would have to say. Lots of really hot prostitutes go here. I don't P4P, but it is almost worth it to just come and see what goes on there. The girls are seriously 9s and they are whores and just wear dresses, dance and wait for guys to come up to them to proposition them. It's hilarious to see these girls reject guys, it's almost as if you need some type of game in addition to money to take down a 9 prostitute.
Date Ideas: I found a pretty good date setup by the end. Invite the girl for drinks (I stress drinks, not food). I'd have them meet me on Kreshatik somewhere towards the north by Mcdonalds for example. Walk north on Kreshatik and make a left on Maidan Nezalezhnosti, then a right on the first street Kost'ol'na Street. As you go up the slight hill there is a French café on the left. Go in there and go to the top floor, they show a French movie and have some paintings on the wall and most girls have never been. Order one round of drinks there before bouncing. Please note it is very hot up there so just be prepared (no sweater you can't take off for example). The French movie usually gives something to talk about especially with the language barriers.
After your first round here, take her to Buddha bar around the corner. Go all the way upstairs to the bar area and grab some couches/seats if you can. Make sure to order the drink for the girl and if you can convince her to have the caiprinha do it (strong alcohol and sugar gets them tipsier). Avoid ordering at the bar if you can as some of the bartenders are assholes. Once I ordered a redbull vodka for the girl and he turned to her and asked her what vodka she wanted in Russian. Again it's pretty cheap so the difference is like $2 but still.
After a round here, start walking back to your place. By this time it should be late and the underground passages to cross the streets will be empty. Optional to make out with the girl here, I did so. Otherwise take them back to your place which should be very close by. May find some struggle getting them up, but say to go look out your balcony, have a drink or once I even said I'm making tea if you want a cup before you go. Escalate hard once upstairs, basically follow Tuth's recipe.
Stories: Here are some of my stories from Kiev, which of course mostly center around girls…
The 19yo girlfriend: Met her at a club, when her friend grabbed me and through me into her. Later I found out she liked me but was too shy to come up. Anyway, talked for a few minutes and went right into making out on the couch. Very handsy and her friends came by and just watched us for a while and were giggling. Tried to get her home but she wouldn't, though split a cab with her and her friends. Two days later tried to setup a date and she said she was out at Divan and I should come meet up with her and her friends. I was suited up because we planned on going to D'lux so that was the night I went there and got mauled by her and her friends. Anyway the 3 19yos come back to my place, I end up going into my room with my girl and try to bang her but she says she's a virgin so I get a BJ. Other girls were partying all night. Best part? In the morning the girls cleaned the entire kitchen and did all the dishes before leaving. Let's see that happen in America. Next time I saw the 19yo was that jealousy night I described above. Let to banging her and I found out she was indeed a virgin (blood, no experience). Ended up seeing her quite a few times and banging her repeatedly. Came over once and made my buddy and I borscht too. Sweet girl, almost feel bad lying to her as she thinks I had to go back to US for work and will be back in a few weeks. Also ran into her friends on my last night there and they thanked me for taking her virginity.
The couchsurfer's promise: First night met up with a couchsurfer and her friends. Nothing much as we were tired, but interesting talking to our first Ukranian girl. Invited me out next night with her friend, went and her friend ended up leaving so it was just us two. For some reason I thought Ukranians would never have seen those Listerine mouth spritzers (ignorance) so I offered to show it to her. She knew what it was and took it as a sign that I wanted to kiss her and tried to tell me I should be spontaneous and not give a hint that I wanted to kiss her. Well no shit but whatever so we started making out at the bar, her grabbing my dick. She said she wanted to fuck me but not tonight since she had work early. Promised me sex tomorrow. Still tried to push for that night, but she wouldn't budge. Ended up flaking and never saw her again.
The female me: Again, met her at a club. She was alone partying by herself. Ended up drinking a ton with her, going back to my place and getting the SNL. She woke up at 6am frantic calling her dad because she had to be in class by 8 am. Met up with her again another night to get another bang session in. We go to Buddha bar and she's ready to party hard again. Drink, go back and bone and I'm trying to get her to leave so I can go out. She's very hesitant but eventually I get her to walk to the Metro and I see her go into the turnstiles. Meet up with my friend and we go to the club, and funny enough she's there and already with another guy. We see each other and I just laugh, considering I fucked her an hour ago and she's already with another guy. Super slut. But I give her credit, that's what I would do – bang, drink and then go out solo and get another girl.
The broken vagina: Met this girl pipelining, she turned out to have a banging body ok face. She was 5'8, 120lbs with boxgap and C breasts. Did my standard date, got a handjob. Next time tried cooking which didn't work but anyway went to bang and she spoke very little English and was trying to say that she cannot take a penis inside her right now for some reason. She assured me it's not a "danger" for me but that her vagina was broken. Whatever, got a blowjob from her though.
The producer: Overheard at Buddha bar, Midwest looking guy early 30s saying to two 8s… "Both of you, $500 and I get to videotape." Girls confer in Russian and say…. "Ok." Off they go.
The champagne sluts: Our last night, hit up the club and my buddy hooks some blonde with a great body ok face. Eventually I end up with her friend who looks like the Ukranian Daria (dorky glasses, black hair, I like that actually). Bounce them from the club to Vodka Bar next door to our apartment. Have a drink there, heavy makeouts and go back to our place and pop open a $3 bottle of champagne. Music blasting the girls are just drinking. Take my girl into the room and pound the shit out of her twice. Friend does the same with his girl. Girls are running around basically naked and love the Jacuzzi shower we have for some reason. Took turns using it giggling like schoolgirls. Woke up in the morning hungover as shit and having to pack and leave for Stockholm. The girls were inquiring as to where we were going since we told them we lived there and they got a bit pissed. Quite funny but damn they were crazy ass girls. My buddy's back was all tore up from nails and bites.
Conclusion: For me, Kiev was great. If you like superthin brunettes like I do, and love drinking, and clubs/bars, you'd like Kiev. I had a lot of success. In one 24 hour period I banged 3 different girls and got a BJ from the fourth (3/4 were works in progress or already hooked up with). I had a 19yo gf within a week. I think if I had more time I'd get into the 8+ range. But there are a lot of negatives too that should not be overlooked. Racism for one, I lucked out that I look white. My buddy for example did considerably worse. The language barrier is tough. There were a lot of google translate moments that killed the mood. It can get fucking cold in the winters apparently and superhot in the summers. People will try to cheat you as much as they can, including the girls. The food fucking sucks, I was popping pepto daily. There's peddlers and bums and crazy people all over the streets. Also, I do not think you can swoop in for a weekend and kill it. The culture is so different that you have to calibrate your game and I'd advise a week minimum if you really want to take advantage. Finally, in the spirit of BigAlexBoss who posted up some photos for a bit, I'll do the same. Here's a quick shot of some of the girls from the stories, I'll probably take it down in a short bit.
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