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Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
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Luisaceo Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
Meanwhile, Pablo Iglesias, leader of far left political party "Podemos", a guy who has the potential to become Spain's next leader has been praising Syriza's programme and even met Alexis Tsipras several times. Southern Europe has clearly had enough of Angela Merkel...




Тот, кто не рискует, тот не пьет шампанского

Blog (In progress): Friendly Gopnik
Yesterday 09:13 AM
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CrashBangWallop Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 09:13 AM)Luisaceo Wrote:  Meanwhile, Pablo Iglesias, leader of far left political party "Podemos", a guy who has the potential to become Spain's next leader has been praising Syriza's programme and even met Alexis Tsipras several times. Southern Europe has clearly had enough of Angela Merkel...




They like her money though!

(To be fair Germany's industries have done pretty well out of the Eurozone).
Yesterday 09:47 AM
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Feisbook Control Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 02:54 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Feisbook Control, given that Greeks aren't Germans (with which I 100% agree), doesn't it make it even more imperative to get them into their own free-floating currency? Surely anything is better than the current situation with being locked into the euro.

I agree.

Quote:In other words, a corrupt and inefficient Greece with drachma is still better off than a corrupt and inefficient Greece with euro, or even than an improved Greece (i.e. much less corrupt and inefficient than now) with euro. There are so many things wrong with being locked into an unrealistic exchange rate and no monetary sovereignity that I just don't see how the "Greece is corrupt/lazy" argument applies here.

I agree with everything but the last sentence.

Quote:No matter how you weigh the issues, the problem is primarily caused by the euro, and that's the problem that needs to be solved first. Same goes for Spain and Portugal.

I agree, but getting off the euro is not going to be a silver bullet. That's where Syriza and their supporters are out to lunch, literally! There seems to be a collective delusion that they are just, and can be, a little Liechtenstein, only with beaches and long lunches. Ron Paul could come and drop gold bullion out of the back of a cargo plane and I'd put money on the fact that twenty years after getting off the euro, Greece would still be a veritable pig sty where the most efficient means of transport would be a donkey on a dirt road...if you could rouse its owner from his third three hour cup of coffee for the day and seven hundredth game of backgammon.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 09:54 AM by Feisbook Control.)
Yesterday 09:51 AM
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LouEvilSlugger Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 09:47 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  They like her money though!

(To be fair Germany's industries have done pretty well out of the Eurozone).

Like Germany never got any bailout money... Hint: 1953.
Yesterday 09:59 AM
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Wreckingball Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 09:13 AM)Luisaceo Wrote:  Meanwhile, Pablo Iglesias, leader of far left political party "Podemos", a guy who has the potential to become Spain's next leader has been praising Syriza's programme and even met Alexis Tsipras several times. Southern Europe has clearly had enough of Angela Merkel...




Chavez advisors trying to continue some revolution in Europe.
If I had two bullets and had the option to choose between Bin Laden, Bieber and Mr. Iglesias I would shoot that piece of shit Iglesias twice.
Yesterday 10:58 AM
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VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 07:23 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Yes, but the Greeks are not Germans and if I am not mistaken the USA and European allies needed Germany on-side and on its feet to counter the Russians.

Germans are industrious and are capable of working towards a set goal. Try telling that to the countries in the Med. They rely on other peoples money and exquisite valuables such as bags, the sun, nice beaches, food and ancient buildings.

If it had been up to me at the end of WW2, I would have given Germany the full Carthage treatment, including salting the fertile fields, and ended it as a nation. The only thing the German people were sorry about is that they lost. Fuck them.
They are sanctimonious and hypocritical.
They are also playing a cynical game of real politik. They publicly claim that their "austerity" policies are about being fair and promoting the virtues of German hard work and saving, while punishing the Greek/Spanish/Italian vices of profligate spending, laziness, and corruption.
This is utter hogwash. The only thing they care about is getting their banks off the hook for the loans they made irresponsibly, while at the same time maintaining a straight jacket of control over EU monetary policy on terms that favor its economic export interests and are impossible for other countries. If Greece is destroyed, and if tens of millions of people have their lives ruined in Italy and Spain, well, then fuck them, Deutschland über alles!

"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 11:09 AM by VolandoVengoVolandoVoy.)
Yesterday 11:05 AM
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johngouts Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
Hello there guys, how's it goin'? I'm Greek & I hope I can contribute to your conversation with my own experience to the matter:
Most of you guys are right about us, unfortunately: since the democracy days & the entry to the EU (1980 & so on), we have become inefficient, corrupt & lazy. All we wanted is easy money, food & pussy without working hard for it, but the craziest thing is we got it! EU provided for that with billions of money (eurosAngry)! Germany especially benefited from that getting huge contracts & exports, bribing everyone they could (and they're shoving it now down our asses with their loan-shark 7% interest money)
Globalization & illegal immigrants fucked up our culture & lifestyle, politicians are drones feeding off society, giving "favours" a la Mafia to those who don't deserve them, all the scandals went unpunished because simply noone gave a shit. We even gave up on growing things & feeding ourselves (counter-productivity) simply because imports are an easier & cheaper way!
So now, what do we do? We are giving the government to people who promise the "good ol days" but have no clue how to do that! Brilliant, right?
Economical crisis made us poorer but not wiser, our way of thinking things sadly hasn't changed much. The best parts of our society (young unmarried scientists with high IQ & will to work) have already left the country disgusted & hurt because they had shitty jobs or are jobless (like me). The rest still have the same fucked-up mentality (easy money-fun-food-pussy, minimum effort), while the EU (ie Germans) hypocrites & no-good parasite Greek politicians give them promises & expensive loans in order just to survive & at the same time fuck them in the ass! Change of mentality, especially in the Balkans, is an awfully long procedure...
Fact is forces at work are way too much for such a small country, but people never fought back this crap; in fact they embraced it like Heaven on Earth! But now, the weak pay the price (but still don't give a fuck) & the guilty escape punishment...Brave new world, guys!
Yesterday 11:18 AM
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Dismal Operator Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
Syriza wants to restructure the debt they took on in the last few years, which basically ended up in the hands of the oligarchs. I don't blame them, and I'd have no issues if they even defaulted on all that debt.

The issue is that they want to turn around and borrow more money to rehire bureaucrats, jack up the minimum wage, increase regulations, and turn the welfare dial back up to 11. In other words, they want to replace unproductive debt with more unproductive debt, just of a different sort. That's no solution, and as a result they'll be right back in dire straits before long.

The comparison to German reconstruction isn't a good one for that reason. If Greece got a similar deal to the London Debt Agreement, they aren't going to use that freedom to go and build an industrial powerhouse like the Germans did. Syriza is pretty much saying they're going to do the exact opposite.

Going back to the drachma is at best a cosmetic solution. The aim there would be to devalue and export, but that strategy, while popular, is short lived and specific to a small subset of the economy. It's essentially a redistribution from all non-exporters who hold the currency to the export class. Which is why it's always export industries which are at the front and center of any devaluation campaign, assuming there is anything of value to export in the first place. Over the long run it doesn't benefit the economy as a whole. What is beneficial to an economy is production to a standard which doesn't require currency gimmicks to drum up interest.

The fundamental problem with Greece is not that they're lazy, it's that they're not productive, which are two different things. Fixing that is going to require doing things that pretty much nobody wants to do. The Troika isn't going to like the fact that some sort of default/massive restructuring is necessary. The politicians won't like the fact that all of the fairy tales they tell the public will never come to fruition, and a drastic reduction in regulation and welfare payments, while embracing freer markets is the real path forward. The average Greek person won't like the fact that massive change, even if it's the destruction of a broken system, probably means things might get worse before they get better.
Yesterday 11:44 AM
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N°6 Online
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Post: #109
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
Austerity, the transfer of wealth from the poor to rich to pay for the folly of the rich.

Why is this acceptable in any country?
Yesterday 05:29 PM
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Zelcorpion Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Syriza Rides Anti-Austerity Wave to Decisive Victory in Greece
(Yesterday 05:29 PM)N°6 Wrote:  Austerity, the transfer of wealth from the poor to rich to pay for the folly of the rich.

Why is this acceptable in any country?

Bill Still - money reformer - weighed in on the issue:





What the party Greek politician said sounds actually quite sensible that they want to break up the hegemony between bankers, developers and media owners.

They want to destroy the basis of that system - I don't see how they can do that frankly without leaving the EU and installing an interest-free money system. Chances for that are zero in my opinion and the politicians in Greece are nowhere close to make such a step.
Yesterday 06:01 PM
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