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I'm writing this because I'm interested in everyone's view on a topic that's created a bit of a stir recently with the GK "outing."

I should provide as an intro that I do my best to be largely nonjudgmental on moral behavior standards derived from religion (just see my signature). I don't really hold victimless activities against people, and do my best (no one is perfect) not to judge too heavily people who engage in mutually consensual behavior like p4p. It may not be for me, but a lot of that is personal choice and hygiene oriented, more than me thinking that there is something that is so terrible with a woman trading her one tradable asset (or the one she prefers to trade, in many cases) to a guy who otherwise cannot attract (for whatever reason, even the inability to think he can) a woman with the attributes he wants (or the willingness to engage in behaviors he desires). I mean, to put it simply, its not really my business and what the fuck do I care. This obviously doesn't extend to sex trafficking (which is the most over reported phenomenon of the 21st century in my opinion, not that it doesn't happen) or other not truly consensual behavior. Do I want to hang out with whoremongers? No, but again, what they do and how they spend their time and money is their biz. Not mine.

I guess what made me write this thread is a bit of a disconnect I'm seeing in many postings on RVF. I constantly see references to old, out of shape sex tourists in various locations. I see denigration upon denigration of these individuals for what they do.

At the same time, I see a lot of discussion among RVF'ers about how they'd never marry, never lock onto one woman, and expect to stay free and unattached their whole lives. Presumably, this would include their middle to old age.

I just wonder what people who hold both these beliefs think their futures will entail. I'm 44, and I'm planning on marrying fairly soon. My fiancé is from Asia and has a rather conservative mentality. She's also fifteen years younger than me (almost), looks quite young, and I feel that she'll be an attractive partner for me well into my 50's, maybe beyond.

But would I have chosen to remain unattached, its likely that at some point (it thankfully doesn't appear to have been reached yet) that, even in Asia or in Eastern Europe or Africa, no matter how charming and/or interesting I remain, I'd age myself out of the conversation of being an attractive figure for women of a certain age where their secondary sexual attributes would still be attractive to me. Of course they might see me as a sugar daddy or some type of provider, but getting by on game would yield diminished, and then vastly diminished returns. What, as a single guy, would I be relegated to, assuming I still had the desire to partake (not a big leap for me).

I'd love to hear what guys think about this, and how they reconcile it in their minds. I'm closer than many of you to the point of decision, and I've made mine. The factor cited above had no small part in making me opt into a LTR/marriage situation. Wondering what your thoughts are.
(10-07-2014 01:28 PM)Global Entry Wrote: [ -> ]I'm writing this because I'm interested in everyone's view on a topic that's created a bit of a stir recently with the GK "outing."

I should provide as an intro that I do my best to be largely nonjudgmental on moral behavior standards derived from religion (just see my signature). I don't really hold victimless activities against people, and do my best (no one is perfect) not to judge too heavily people who engage in mutually consensual behavior like p4p. It may not be for me, but a lot of that is personal choice and hygiene oriented, more than me thinking that there is something that is so terrible with a woman trading her one tradable asset (or the one she prefers to trade, in many cases) to a guy who otherwise cannot attract (for whatever reason, even the inability to think he can) a woman with the attributes he wants (or the willingness to engage in behaviors he desires). I mean, to put it simply, its not really my business and what the fuck do I care. This obviously doesn't extend to sex trafficking (which is the most over reported phenomenon of the 21st century in my opinion, not that it doesn't happen) or other not truly consensual behavior. Do I want to hang out with whoremongers? No, but again, what they do and how they spend their time and money is their biz. Not mine.

I guess what made me write this thread is a bit of a disconnect I'm seeing in many postings on RVF. I constantly see references to old, out of shape sex tourists in various locations. I see denigration upon denigration of these individuals for what they do.

At the same time, I see a lot of discussion among RVF'ers about how they'd never marry, never lock onto one woman, and expect to stay free and unattached their whole lives. Presumably, this would include their middle to old age.

I just wonder what people who hold both these beliefs think their futures will entail. I'm 44, and I'm planning on marrying fairly soon. My fiancé is from Asia and has a rather conservative mentality. She's also fifteen years younger than me (almost), looks quite young, and I feel that she'll be an attractive partner for me well into my 50's, maybe beyond.

But would I have chosen to remain unattached, its likely that at some point (it thankfully doesn't appear to have been reached yet) that, even in Asia or in Eastern Europe or Africa, no matter how charming and/or interesting I remain, I'd age myself out of the conversation of being an attractive figure for women of a certain age where their secondary sexual attributes would still be attractive to me. Of course they might see me as a sugar daddy or some type of provider, but getting by on game would yield diminished, and then vastly diminished returns. What, as a single guy, would I be relegated to, assuming I still had the desire to partake (not a big leap for me).

I'd love to hear what guys think about this, and how they reconcile it in their minds. I'm closer than many of you to the point of decision, and I've made mine. The factor cited above had no small part in making me opt into a LTR/marriage situation. Wondering what your thoughts are.

I am older than you and I have been a whoremonger. I love the latin ladies and enjoy the lifestyle. Its a blast. I discovered the hobby about 5 years ago and it was a life saver for me. It reawakened by lust for beautiful women and hot sex that had been dormant after 22 years of marriage.

However, I have to admit that Roosh is right. Its a quick fix. If you dont have game, you are just in denial. You missed it in your youth and you gave up. Doing the hard work and developing your skills with the ladies, at any age, is still the high road. Anything less is being weak and cowardly.
I used to think Western guys that married Asian women were losers.

But from a different perspective they are rebels who reject the status quo.

Many followers of popular contemporary ideologies would be dismissive of Western men who marry abroad, and would perpetuate stereotypes of them being sexually inadequate males who couldn't bag an independent Western woman. When you see some of those ideologies for what they are, you see that the Western guy marrying abroad is doing everything that suits him, not what society says he should do.
(10-07-2014 03:25 PM)Estebanh Wrote: [ -> ]I am older than you and I have been a whoremonger. I love the latin ladies and enjoy the lifestyle. Its a blast. I discovered the hobby about 5 years ago and it was a life saver for me. It reawakened by lust for beautiful women and hot sex that had been dormant after 22 years of marriage.

However, I have to admit that Roosh is right. Its a quick fix. If you dont have game, you are just in denial. You missed it in your youth and you gave up. Doing the hard work and developing your skills with the ladies, at any age, is still the high road. Anything less is being weak and cowardly.
Popcorn 2
Going to prostitutes (I can't imagine I'd ever in a million years try to solicit a regular girl, as was one of the topics in another very recent thread) is the sexual equivalent of fast food for me.

While I most certainly have a vast amount of room for improvement in my game (before I discovered game a couple of years ago and initially started reading and searching sporadically, I mostly got by with "getting lucky" 3-4 times a year with one night stands from bars and clubs, or a few times social circle when I was younger - the occasional one leading to short term relationships), I do make the effort to meet girls and consciously try to improve how well I do in that department, learning from my blunders, working on my social skills (my natural strength is being a pretty good conversationalist) and strengthening my inner game.

However during dry spells lasting more than a couple of weeks - whether I'm in a run of dates going nowhere (it's primarily been "formal" dating for me since I moved to Bulgaria, bangs happening on the 2nd or 3rd date when they do at all, a completely foreign concept to me back in Scandinavia) or just not in a particularly social mood - in recent years I'd rather just fuck a prostitute or two than force myself to spend more time in bars/clubs or daygaming (I've just started the latter, definitely the way forward for me as the nightlife certainly isn't the regular draw for me that it was 10 or 20 years ago).
Lazy? Sure. But as long as I'm overall satisfied with the progress I'm making in my life and being honest with myself about the choices I'm making, I have no qualms about regular but brief laziness.
I view whoremongers the same way I view annoying backpackers.

People that fuck up the local economic pricing system because they're too lazy/stupid to put in the work.

How I view my impending aging is a combination of male hamster convincing myself I am getting better all the time and mind over matter.

Honestly I think It's working although I'm not sure for how long.

I feel like I've turned back the clock quite a bit with my resolve to end my drinking and I'm currently reading a book called The Walhs Protocol that will get it's own thread. The gist is you are supposed to be eating for your cellular health, specifically your mitochondria.

Dr Walhs (a female) has Multiple Sclerosis, she was at a point where she was in a tilt wheelchair, she finally realized was going to die if ahe didnt change what she was doing. She arrested, the reversed her MS through this diet she outlines and has also been successfully treating her patients with it as well while currently living an active lifestyle.

She believes the link between depression, ms, cancer, etc etc is mitochondria no performing correctly. She argues even with genetic disorders or predispostions you can address these things with proper diet.

Its fascinating stuff and I am enjoying the book.

That said I hope one day to meet a suitable life long companion but I'm preparing for the worst.

I don't need anyone to push my wheelchair for me.
It's going to be interesting to see how communities like ours respond to growing older.
"Older" around here still means 35-45. In that age group, a level of denial and more effort still gets results. But that may not be true at 50 and 60. Not everyone can have elite level health and wealth at that age, and that's what it will take to have a playboy lifestyle.
I'm in my late 50s, look it but in good shape, and still feel that women are genuinely attracted to me. Of course, these women are 35+ and up, and what love is for a woman is different from how a man loves. For me, it's pretty easy to pull attractive women in their 40s, in any country.

I've mentioned it several times before, but I swear by Rollo Tomassi's SMV graph. It was verified again the last couple of days, when I got a bunch of messages from women 32 years and up on Badoo after I arrived in Dubai. But none below that.

[Image: rollo-graph.png]

I don't know whether I'll find a LTR partner, but I am tending towards that. The issue is the time investment in finding and dating new women for not much marginal return. If I have a woman who loves me, is fun company when I want, and will give me the space I want, what more do I want?

Remember Seneca's words on the loss of sexual desire: "At last I am free of a cruel and insane master."
I have a older relative in his 70s. He had a wife and kids, it ended in divorce. He didn't have any need of having another family. He got divorced in his 40s, and after that, he basically lived the life of a player. I would imagine a lot of divorced guys do this.

I vaguely remember his late 40s, he would date girls in their late 20s. In his 50s and 60s, he would date MILFs in their 30s. Now, in his early 70s, I see him with women in their late 40s and early 50s.

So if you talked to this guy, he'd probably tell you there's nothing wrong with being single indefinitely, after getting the family thing out of the way.
After college i knew a girl wjo started dating her ex professor, je was in his 60s, she was early 20s. He was older than her parents.

This gave me hope forever.

She was cute thin not the best looking girl in the world but many young guys would ve happy to fuck her so you can imagine how this old guy felt.
I haven't made up my mind about marriage in the future. It seems pointless to me to transform a consensual relationship into a legally binding contract that's extremely expensive and difficult to unwind, should the need arise. But maybe I'll look at it a different way when I'm 65 and staring down the barrel of lonely winter years.

I do think that it's ridiculous to judge men who pay for sex, for the same reasons that it's stupid to judge people in general: first, you haven't walked a mile in their shoes, and second, judging people is typically just some weak-assed way to make yourself feel elevated by lowering others. Leave that shit to small-minded people. Maybe when I'm 70 I'll be married, maybe I'll have five girlfriends, maybe I'll be a whoremonger. It's my life, I'm not hurting you, so if you want to judge me, then you can just get in line to kiss my ass along with the other mother hens.

Having said that, I understand why GK was banned. There are plenty of places to discuss p4p, but this is one of the few places where we can talk about game, and allowing mongering into the discussion will eventually turn this into a p4p forum. Game is, after all, the application of a process which makes it easier for us to get laid, and what's easier than handing a girl some cash? Also, Roosh is pretty high-profile, relatively speaking, and it's probably hard enough for him to keep his pants clean without whoring wingmen slinging mud on them. Why would you create a site like this and then welcome people who have cockblocked you?
I've found as you get older you actually find older women attractive too. It's hard for a guy in his 20s to imagine finding a woman in her 40s or 50s attractive.

It's not because the older man is conditioned to settle, but rather as his level of development grows so will his taste in women. This isn't to say that women in their 20s won't still be physically attractive to his eyes, but he may not be interested in them because they aren't inwardly developed enough as an older woman is.

Everyone is attracted to physcial beauty, but it's the psychological/metaphysical jazz underneath the hood that really hooks people to one another. That is "True Love". The early 20s student being in love with the 60s Professor is a perfect example of that.

Of course if any "true love" couple were to see what the foundation of their love is based on they would be horrified. True love requires darkness to the unconcious underpinnings of the relationship. It's why people make love in the dark. It's why ignorance is bliss.
Most guys on this forum will end up with a partner.
Not many men are cut out for the Roosh way of life, even he has mentioned it gets lonely. The thrill for him and I am guessing, is hitting new places. This I envy because i love to travel.
I am older than the OP, I don't mind being single but I have come to the realization I won't live forever. I want someone to pass on my "legacy" or more importantly I would like my name to continue. Sounds vain but I think all men reach this point in their lives.

I was also very close to getting married, she was a sweet girl but she was in a hurry to have a baby. These types of girls don't come around often, I lived with her for a bit and it was cool.

I train hard,eat right which I believe is the real key of life, which means I eat more green stuff and lot less meat. Alcohol is for social settings and I don't do drugs.
I plan on having a baby's (or babies') mama(s) before I'm 40--maybe wife--or at least having identified her (them).

It feels like a few weeks ago I was a teenager. All of a sudden one day I woke up, had a full-time corporate job, and was closer to 30 than 20.

I'm sure these next few years will go even faster, and the years after that. Suddenly one day I will wake up no longer a young man, but a middle-aged man.

I don't want to wait too long and settle down with a merely okay-cute girl--I'd rather just time it right and snag a young smoke-show while I'm still in striking distance of many of them age-wise, but nearing the end of my young-smoke-show-snagging prime. Like mid-30s to early-40s.

I most certainly would prefer not to get too old and be stuck with U.S. cougars, barrio chicks in the DR, or SEA 6's--girls I wouldn't even deign to try and pump and dump now. The memories of my prime with girls would be too crushing of a juxtaposition.
Great knowledge being dropped in this thread. Awesome motivator for the young guys around like me.

I'm glad to have met a few members from here in their 30's and 40's that I have been able to learn from and that have set examples. In all cases these guys take care of themselves, are socially calibrated, and have control in their lives, whether that be with women or just how they carry themselves and their vibe.

If I look around my community most of all the middle aged guys are horrible examples for the younger generation. Unfit and unattractive, no control in their relationship/settled for low value girls, low financial control/discipline, among other things.
(10-07-2014 04:46 PM)Fisto Wrote: [ -> ]I view whoremongers the same way I view annoying backpackers.

People that fuck up the local economic pricing system because they're too lazy/stupid to put in the work.

How I view my impending aging is a combination of male hamster convincing myself I am getting better all the time and mind over matter.

Honestly I think It's working although I'm not sure for how long.

Hey Fisto appreciate your posts but you're something like a 6'3" MMA muscular dynamo who could like punch through a concrete wall, right?

Do you think that MIGHT color your view of the sexual marketplace lol.

It's like a Rockefeller bitching about those little ants working for minimum wage!! Why don't they just do an IPO?!!

What's funny is that the two of us are BOTH in the Phils, bookworm introvert and Wolverine. This place must really have something going for it.

I am lifting weights to try not to be the Pillsbury Doughboy.
(10-07-2014 09:39 PM)Kabal Wrote: [ -> ]I plan on having a baby's (or babies') mama(s) before I'm 40--maybe wife--or at least having identified her (them).

It feels like a few weeks ago I was a teenager. All of a sudden one day I woke up, had a full-time corporate job, and was closer to 30 than 20.


I don't want to wait too long and settle down with a merely okay-cute girl--I'd rather just time it right and snag a young smoke-show while I'm still in striking distance of many of them age-wise, but nearing the end of my young-smoke-show-snagging prime. Like mid-30s to early-40s.

I most certainly would prefer not to get too old and be stuck ....

This isn't a bad strategy at all in my view, it just took me too long to get the money to move out of the USA ( 50s). I was never able to nail 8.5-10 chicks even when in peak physical form.
I have to admit - my biggest fear about being single is that someday this gravy train will end, and I will be the old creepy dude at the bar. But for now?......

Well, lets be frank - I love young women. And by young, I mean 18-23. I dont care how good a women looks over 35, her skin tends to age, and there is no substitute for young tight skin. We all know why we love young women - their energy, their vitality, adventuresomeness, etc etc.

The one thing I have found in america has been, even though I am getting a year older every birthday, I am still consistently pulling in girls under 28, not infrequently under 23. No cash, no promises of gifts. What I do offer is a fun time with an educated man who is cool, knows lots of interesting stuff, has traveled the world, and who treats them like a lady (as well as a freak in bed). I do worry that this has to end someday. Maybe I should "settle down". I have grown children, so I dont feel a clock ticking. But recently I have been worried that magic moment will pass and the well will run dry.

Thankfully, I stumbled upon RVF. After reading about other's experiences in the Phillipines and SEA, I figure I have 15-20 years left before my options become much more limited. =)

I think the key to gaming when you get older (whatever that number), is not to GET older. Physically, take care of yourself. Dont smoke, limit alcohol, exercise, get the botox if you need it. But equally important is not to get older mentally. Stay playful, enjoy having fun, know the current "cool stuff". I am 50 but my last date told me I look 33 (ok, maybe genetics helps too, but I use Retin-A and botox and they work). When a 22 year old girl asks me what music I like, I am honest - EDM. When I rattle off a few of my favorite DJs or bands which she doesnt expect I would know, I can instantly tell she is no longer looking at me as the guy who is about her dad's age, but instead sees an unexpectedly cool guy who has now grabbed her interest.

I have respect for those looking to settle down. At some point, I will be joining their ranks. For those wanting to stay in the game longer, if you keep the right physical and mental attitude, you dont have to worry that you will be relegated to 30+ MILFs.
ohionukes - are you really 50 and are consistently pulling girls in their early/mid 20s in the US?
I don't really know GK that well, but I understand women a little bit.

I also have eyes.
I make observations.
I make connections.

You're not always going to be in the gym, drinking a gallon of milk, doing HIIT.
You're not always going to eat right.
Injuries will take longer to heal.

Your career may not go as planned, or as you hoped.
Your business may fail, your investments may tank.
You may move to a new city and have to start your social circle from scratch.
Maybe even a new country, and have to learn a new language, a new culture.

Even through all of that, your ability to connect with another human being does not have to diminish. You can make friends at any age. Telling jokes, swapping stories, trading silent looks....never ends.

If you can do that, you can bag bitches. bitches galore.

So many guys are caught up in what a girl sees. Because guys judge everything by what it looks like, they assume that's how EVERYONE processes information. At the same time, these same guys will tell you all bitches are crazy, and none of them are logical.

It NEVER occurs to them, that a woman may evaluate things differently, that a woman might see things differently.

And this love affair with "men's logic" is what makes them never notice the world around them. Anything that upsets the apple cart has to be an exception. At no time do men question the rules, the logic, the rationale.

I don't know GK.
I don't care if was into P4P.

I do know men GK's age who are fucking 25 year olds without having to be a whoremonger or a sugar daddy.

Those kind of guys see something and they go after it.
Do they get laughed at?
Do they have to break out the Cialis/Viagra?
Do they look stupid in a young man's clothes?
Do people think the nice cars are compensation for physical shortcomings?

Sure they do.

And while the peanut gallery snickers, he's breaking a chick off a piece of his kit-katbar.

What's most interesting is that a lot more men could be taking advantage of the situation, but they've become beat down by society, they become risk averse. Some of that is biochemical of course, missing a set of hormones, but if you're aware of it, you still have free will.

There are still things you can do.

I'm not knocking marrying a pretty foreign wife. I hope to do the same in the future, but if I do find Mrs. WIA by way of Colombia, it won't be because I don't think I can't pull another chick, or that I need to get out the game while the getting is good.

I've seen too much.
I've experienced too much.

WIA
This is a great thread with some great responses.

The funny thing is we all have similar views. I will also add I don't have much time or see any value with women in their 30s. Over 35 I find them hard to take seriously, I don't care how hot they look. These women are usually very interested in me and I try not to engage them.

I can easily pull girls in the 24 and up range, the 18 - 23 range I have had a few bites but I haven't explored that avenue.

Ultimately, North America is not a place for me. I will head back to Europe before I hit 50, even Western Europe is much better. My last two serious relationships were with Eastern European girls.
(10-07-2014 11:06 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not knocking marrying a pretty foreign wife. I hope to do the same in the future, but if I do find Mrs. WIA by way of Colombia, it won't be because I don't think I can't pull another chick, or that I need to get out the game while the getting is good.

Find the right pretty foreign wife, and she may not even care that much that you can, and do, still pull other chicks. And of course don't pick her because you can't but rather because she's terrific in ways that make you happy and will make your life better. I imagine that's what you mean.
I gave up my plate spinning lifestyle for an LTR that ended up in a somewhat unhappy marriage and kids.

My first child was born when I was 43, and like magic the clock was immediately turned back ten years for me. Everybody remarked on it. I went around with a big smile on my face. My kids are just the painkillers I need for late middle age.

Do I have any regrets? Yes. That I did not manage my expectations about marriage better. I never bought into all of those Disney myths about marriage, but I have found that I totally underestimated the power of the female imperative in an ultra-long-term relationship. The relentlessness of it. And I failed to understand that if you are going to be married you need game and you need to stay on top of it each and every day.

Another regret is the fact that I have daughters and I really want a son, dammit. Nothing like the love of a man for his daughter, it's true. but I am the only son of the oldest son of the oldest son and the family name is carried by me. Not going to happen with this wife, though.

Lately I have begun working on a plan for rectifying that -- as a "start over dad" once I get into my sixties and I get my "fuck you" money together.

Recently I ran into a friend who had just turned sixty, with a big grin on his face. "My girl in the Phillipines just gave birth to our son." Right on, dude.
[Image: image.axd?picture=2011%2f6%2ftnt_men_of_...23x243.jpg]

At first I thought this thread was going to be about that show.

I sometimes wonder what I will be up to in the future. I have no intention of having kids so any type of long term relationship with a chick would have to be ok with that. I think Global Entry has a good course of action in getting with a younger conservative foreign chick. Maybe I might follow the same path when I reach my late 40s and up.

I think its hard for us younger guys to imagine what we will look like or even what we will feel like when we get older. What our priorities will be or even how much sex we will desire or want. For some men as they age into their 50's and up they might put more of a value on just getting their nut off with a hot piece of ass without the drama or time commitments of a relationship so they just get a hot young hooker a couple times a week. While other men might settle into a relationship with a woman who fulfills an emotional/life partner type of role and value that over staying single.

Ultimately as long as you focus on your money and keeping up with your health you will have options in old age. Besides as you get older you will find out which things are more important for you anyways since you will know yourself that much better so you can pursue the options that best fit what you want in life.
Interesting thread, Global.

As I'm writing this, marriage is not important for me. But like rudebwoy, I feel like I have a duty to pass on my name and legacy. As far as written history goes I am in the 23rd generation of a straight bloodline from father to son who owns this house I'm living in and the lands and forests surrounded. That's a period of 513 years, maybe longer but they didn't track down people here before 1501. This is important stuff for me personally. If I don't get children, this long straight bloodline will end. Ha, feels like I'm the seventh son of a seventh son. It's like a higher call I can't explain.

Some guys might find this funny and I understand so if you don't have any roots somewhere.
Rootless people have a different mindset. Look at FSU.

When it comes to finding a decent babymama I'm pretty cranky.
I've dated girls with nearly perfect mother and householding skills. But the problem for me has always been to find someone who is not getting on my nerves or someone who's not boring the hell out of me. Every girl seem to have one major flaw that makes it impossible to live together.

Gotta be careful when choosing a mother for your children, it might be one of the most important desicions in our lives.

What I want to ask guys who've been there and done that is :
Did you ever get the feeling that your girl was a great choice of mother for your children?
Or did things just happen and you stuck with it?

I'm still young so I'm not in a hurry of rushing things here.
But still need to have some long time plan. The question of kids will be on the table, the question is just when.
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