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Four years ago I moved to Poland, and like Roosh and others have noted, the difference between western and EE women is palpable.

Growing up and learning game in New York is like starting basic training with the Navy Seals. A large percentage of interactions are extremely negative, and you have to grow iron skin to withstand the bombardment of stupidity and bitchiness to eventually get a lay with a girl you actually want to be with.

Fast forward to Poland: women are kind and respectable. Even if they don't want anything to do with you, they will not react negatively and will politely turn you down. They are also often better behaved in general, with lower levels of slutiness.

However, this is changing, and it's possible we will approach American-levels of bitchiness within the next 10 years.

What inspired me to write this post was an experience I recently had at a house-party I hosted. I asked guests to not speak loudly on the balcony if they went out for a cigarette, because all of my neighbors are older people or people with kids.

Of course I walk out to find this girl arguing loudly with her boyfriend on her cellphone. I didn't invite her, but hey, I wasn't going to turn down a hot girl. Though I quickly regretted it as she was acting slutty and loud the whole night.

In a calm voice I asked her to leave the balcony, and said that she could continue the conversation inside. No response whatsoever. I continued, this time with steel in my voice. Drunken beta-male who were out on the balcony leap to her defense: "it's chill dude, she has some important business on the phone." Finally, unable to ignore me, she gives me the hand-up denial gesture.

[Image: stock-photo-no-closeup-portrait-young-an...631484.jpg]

Oh no you didn't, bitch. I went full-Brooklyn on her and threw her ass out. She was shocked the entire time, she was so used to men supplicating and doing everything for her because she acts slutty.

This one anecdote is just the beginning. My observations from watching friends with kids and as an English teacher have led me to believe that western-relationship tourists like us are in for a rude awakening in the next few years.

There is no discipline in the home or at school:
I recently stayed with family who had a young daughter (around 9yrs old). The shit she got away with, on an HOURLY basis, was unbelievable. There were no "hard lines" or things that are beyond her ability to do. She was incredibly insulting to her parents, and does whatever she wants anytime she wants. Her parents plead with her like a beta-male pleads with his oneitis-crush. They try to bribe her with ice cream, cartoons, and trips to the playground. All of these efforts fail horribly.

When I taught English, to kids from ages 6-18, I was shocked that they were unable to sit through a 30 minute lesson without interrupting. Having gone to school in NYC, you expect that it can't possibly get worse than that. But it does.

This is a generation without rules or consequences. It never crosses their minds that they shouldn't:

- Take things that don't belong to them. This was shocking to me at first, but I soon learned strategies and punishments to deal with it. Kids will just get up, in the middle of a lesson while you're teaching, and take something from the classroom or from other students. If you call them out on it, they become extremely upset and cause a scene.

- Respect others. I understand boys being rough and play-fighting, that's normal. But young girls know they have complete immunity and take advantage of that. I've even heard other teachers tell them "you don't hit girls." I've watched an 11 year old girl get up and brutally start smacking the shit out of a boy, just because she doesn't like him. I've had to physically restrain a 10 year old girl in an arm lock in order to remove her from the classroom because of a similar incident.

- Lie. The biggest thing that drove me crazy about living in the US, and especially going to college, was how most people lied with impunity. Especially women. Girls just lie, lie, lie like complete sociopaths and the number that don't is so small that there are probably more transgenders than honest girls. This is the same thing I've observed in my female students, they love to lie. As a teacher you have to be on top of your game all the time, because they will attempt to deceive you about everything including homework, tests, and even what you've taught them.

Technology is creating a generation of socially inept monsters:

Since parents don't know how to raise their kids and give them boundaries (as described above), they resort to numbing their kids with smartphones, tablets, and computers. Kids as young as 7 years old have full functioning smartphones and tablets with internet access. This is insane.

No exaggeration, these kids get up and turn on their smartphone first thing in the morning. Sit at breakfast with their tablet. Do things on their phone during class. Then go home and sit on the computer the rest of the day. No wonder they can't sit still for 30 minutes if they are constantly being entertained by technology.

Now, what's worse is the effect on young girls. For my female cousins in Poland, sex was taboo. They didn't even want to talk about it. They've never seen pornography or hook-up culture.

Now I have 10 year old girls telling me about the porn videos they watch on their tablets. They have fake facebook accounts and talk to grown men and women. Imagine how much lower the bar will be for them once they reach 18?

The only saving grace is a strong, traditional family unit. Single-parent homes are still a minority, and in many cases totally unheard of. But often this is not enough. How many strippers and porn stars came from stable 2 parent homes in the Midwest?

Conclusion: Get ready for an Americanization of Eastern European women within the next 10 years.
Water takes the shape of the container it fills.
What Suits said. Nothing we already didnt expect, Roosh wrote about this multiple times.

On the bright side they adapt quick to their social surroundings so it would only take 2 years to reverse if the environment took a more patriarchal change.

Gotta say though it doesnt bother me greatly, im here due to the fact that theres no muslims, id have even stayed in the west otherwise if they werent such a big issue.

The fact that theres even native polish children in the schools is good enough for me.
A fucking men.

I've seen all sorts of errant behaviour from children thes days it's unfathomable. Things that would get me slapped as a kid are now common place.

There's a fear amongst parents these days to punish children. I don't know about you guys, but I look forward to temper tantrums and how i'll deal with them.

Women, like children, take the container they're placed in. They will find and test your weaknesses.
The cause is not the women, it's men. Specially young men.

Young men have become limpwristed, pussywhipped faggots. Probably due to absent parents. They don't know how to walk as they are always hunching, shoulders inwards. They are led to believe they are inferior. They don't know how to talk with anyone. They don't mind being used. They don't know the importance of being primal and releasing anger in front of women. Most important of all, they don't understand the importance of "standing your ground".



Very true about the lying. There are teachers who do try to discipline these women then they fuck up or lie, except their parents usually contact the school and get them out of it 100% of the time. Teachers usually give up at this point with any kind of strict discipline. "My daughter would never lie or cheat" Suure buddy.
I can speak for Ukraine, and I have never seen a kid screaming or making a scene.
Yet, I have seen Ukrainian kids behaving poorly, but only western educated ones.

Nothing of this surprises me. But from experience in some cases and reading in others, there is possibly three eastern europe's. The one who fully embraced the West (Poland being the maximum exponent, also Estonia and Croatia for example), the still patriarchal to a certain extent "russian world" (Russia/Ukraine/Belarus/Moldova) and maybe the nations in the Balkans historically with affiliantions with Russia (Bulgaria and Serbia), and the ones in between (Romania, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, maybe Hungary...).

I do not know if Poland can still be considered Eastern Europe...but yes, at least up until now there are no migrants, lets hope it stays this way.
OP, how old are you roughly and what's the general vibe of your neighborhood/dzielnica?

I agree and disagree. Men in Warsaw, which is still the most Westernized Polish city, even more so than Poznan, do and do not take crap from women there. Depends very much on the guy and the context.

Broadly-speaking, from my experiences in Poland Polish men are romantically five cuts above their American or other Western counterparts. I cannot see the ten year prediction the OP made as coming true. Maybe 20-25 years.

For example, I was at a pub in Warsaw with friends and some woman started a screaming match with the chef after her food supposedly took too long. She had actually already paid and was therefore forfeiting her money. Nonetheless, after her poor behavior and a storm-off, he quite calmly followed her and made it clear he would not tolerate being spoken to that way. It was the most refreshing thing I had seen in a long while.

Reminds me of this infamous Russian game show footage, where the male contestant gets sick of the bikini-clad female contestant's goadings and lashes out:





Huge numbers of Polish men are not overly aggressive but will still put boundary-breaking women in their place.
On a side note haven't you noticed that most Russian men seem to know how to fight or have some combat common sense. For example the man in the video above kicked her other shoe underneath the car to prevent her from throwing anything else at him. It may seem like a very basic and logical thing to do, but that shows some sort of military or police/martial arts type of training.
(09-16-2016 01:18 PM)Constitution45 Wrote: [ -> ]On a side note haven't you noticed that most Russian men seem to know how to fight or have some combat common sense. For example the man in the video above kicked her other shoe underneath the car to prevent her from throwing anything else at him. It may seem like a very basic and logical thing to do, but that shows some sort of military or police/martial arts type of training.

Of course they do - mandatory conscription.

Technically not every young man is made to serve, but many of those guys getting student exemptions etc would still want to seem martial enough.

Will be interesting to see how the present crop of new Russian adults (born 1997 and after) fare. They are too young to remember the economic crises or most of their aftereffects. Prosperity even in relative terms can easily breed complacency and effeminacy.
So "Talk to the Hand" took this long to hit Poland. Wow.

You should have shown the dude defending the loudmouth the old school response to that:

Talk to the Fist Because the Hand is Pissed.

Aloha!
Although I usually defend Russia, it is still a difficult place to live. Here in the U.K we've had generations growing up being modycuddled, financially, emotionally, mentally. Your average Russian teenager will still be growing up in a socialist type tower block that is falling apart. Even things that you wouldn't usually consider must have an effect, for example my Russian friends who are my age living in Moscow, all have witnessed numerous gory traffic accidents as a part of growing up in the 00s.

One element of the culture that can be difficult for Westerners to get hold of over time, is the strange attitude towards money. Perhaps 'strange' is the wrong word to use. But after encountering girls who time and time again expect the man to pay for everything goes beyond chivalry and old time values. It's almost like a mental affliction., I am not simply referring to paying for meals, but girls you've been dating for 2-3 months expecting you to pay for holidays abroad.

Anecdotally speaking, I was impressed with how quickly people moved up the career ladder in Moscow/St Petersburg, self improvement seemed to be ingrained in the city, more than somewhere like London. I think this will continue as interest rates are higher for loans, and the financial climate is more difficult. than it was 3-5 years. Russians will always revert back to being more economical and in the long run that would probably be more beneficial for their own finances.
I think it's shocking and hilarious that a bitch would do the "talk to the hand" in YOUR OWN FUCKING HOUSE.

Back in my college days, in the late 1990s, a high school friend of mine used to throw great house parties during the summer. But of course, sometimes people would bring along drunken girlfriends (or guy friends) who simply couldn't respect the rules.

He took a "collective punishment" approach. One night some drunk was messing with a lightswitch and caused a short.

"Sorry folks, but I can't have that. It's time to shut it down. Clear it, everyone out." It was about 10 PM.

People learned real quick to only bring guests who could respect the rules.
(09-16-2016 11:50 AM)david.garrett84 Wrote: [ -> ]OP, how old are you roughly and what's the general vibe of your neighborhood/dzielnica?

I agree and disagree. Men in Warsaw, which is still the most Westernized Polish city, even more so than Poznan, do and do not take crap from women there. Depends very much on the guy and the context.

Broadly-speaking, from my experiences in Poland Polish men are romantically five cuts above their American or other Western counterparts. I cannot see the ten year prediction the OP made as coming true. Maybe 20-25 years.

For example, I was at a pub in Warsaw with friends and some woman started a screaming match with the chef after her food supposedly took too long. She had actually already paid and was therefore forfeiting her money. Nonetheless, after her poor behavior and a storm-off, he quite calmly followed her and made it clear he would not tolerate being spoken to that way. It was the most refreshing thing I had seen in a long while.

Reminds me of this infamous Russian game show footage, where the male contestant gets sick of the bikini-clad female contestant's goadings and lashes out:





Huge numbers of Polish men are not overly aggressive but will still put boundary-breaking women in their place.

Perhaps the location makes a huge difference. I live near Szczecin, and a majority of men are beta-males. Like hardcore betas, who fail every shit test and have 0 game, only relying on their social circle to eventually land a woman.

Most of the men I see with kids are like zombies. It looks like they do whatever society tells them to do (go to university, get a job, get married, have kids) and are just waiting to die.

Perhaps it's different in Warsaw, because it's a major metropolis like London or NYC. People have to have social skills, business skills, and street smarts to be successful. I live in a town of only 80k people.

Edit: the economy of small towns may also play a role. Anyone who can get out has moved out, whether it's western Europe or a big Polish city. The people who remain usually don't have the skills or ambition to move further. I'm 30yrs old.
Why worry what you cannot change!

There are still loads of girls in that region that can be gamed. It all depends how far you are willing to go and how long you can stay in a certain place.

I would still take one of those girls over a girl in the West, any day of the week.

Don't forget you are talking a vast region, FSU in the north, Baltics, Balkans, Central Europe and Eastern Europe proper.

Sadly, I don't get enough vacation to tour all these spots.
(09-16-2016 04:27 AM)AFS Wrote: [ -> ]Four years ago I moved to Poland, and like Roosh and others have noted, the difference between western and EE women is palpable.

Growing up and learning game in New York is like starting basic training with the Navy Seals. A large percentage of interactions are extremely negative, and you have to grow iron skin to withstand the bombardment of stupidity and bitchiness to eventually get a lay with a girl you actually want to be with.

Fast forward to Poland: women are kind and respectable. Even if they don't want anything to do with you, they will not react negatively and will politely turn you down. They are also often better behaved in general, with lower levels of slutiness.

However, this is changing, and it's possible we will approach American-levels of bitchiness within the next 10 years.

What inspired me to write this post was an experience I recently had at a house-party I hosted. I asked guests to not speak loudly on the balcony if they went out for a cigarette, because all of my neighbors are older people or people with kids.

Of course I walk out to find this girl arguing loudly with her boyfriend on her cellphone. I didn't invite her, but hey, I wasn't going to turn down a hot girl. Though I quickly regretted it as she was acting slutty and loud the whole night.

In a calm voice I asked her to leave the balcony, and said that she could continue the conversation inside. No response whatsoever. I continued, this time with steel in my voice. Drunken beta-male who were out on the balcony leap to her defense: "it's chill dude, she has some important business on the phone." Finally, unable to ignore me, she gives me the hand-up denial gesture.

[Image: stock-photo-no-closeup-portrait-young-an...631484.jpg]

Oh no you didn't, bitch. I went full-Brooklyn on her and threw her ass out. She was shocked the entire time, she was so used to men supplicating and doing everything for her because she acts slutty.

This one anecdote is just the beginning. My observations from watching friends with kids and as an English teacher have led me to believe that western-relationship tourists like us are in for a rude awakening in the next few years.

There is no discipline in the home or at school:
I recently stayed with family who had a young daughter (around 9yrs old). The shit she got away with, on an HOURLY basis, was unbelievable. There were no "hard lines" or things that are beyond her ability to do. She was incredibly insulting to her parents, and does whatever she wants anytime she wants. Her parents plead with her like a beta-male pleads with his oneitis-crush. They try to bribe her with ice cream, cartoons, and trips to the playground. All of these efforts fail horribly.

When I taught English, to kids from ages 6-18, I was shocked that they were unable to sit through a 30 minute lesson without interrupting. Having gone to school in NYC, you expect that it can't possibly get worse than that. But it does.

This is a generation without rules or consequences. It never crosses their minds that they shouldn't:

- Take things that don't belong to them. This was shocking to me at first, but I soon learned strategies and punishments to deal with it. Kids will just get up, in the middle of a lesson while you're teaching, and take something from the classroom or from other students. If you call them out on it, they become extremely upset and cause a scene.

- Respect others. I understand boys being rough and play-fighting, that's normal. But young girls know they have complete immunity and take advantage of that. I've even heard other teachers tell them "you don't hit girls." I've watched an 11 year old girl get up and brutally start smacking the shit out of a boy, just because she doesn't like him. I've had to physically restrain a 10 year old girl in an arm lock in order to remove her from the classroom because of a similar incident.

- Lie. The biggest thing that drove me crazy about living in the US, and especially going to college, was how most people lied with impunity. Especially women. Girls just lie, lie, lie like complete sociopaths and the number that don't is so small that there are probably more transgenders than honest girls. This is the same thing I've observed in my female students, they love to lie. As a teacher you have to be on top of your game all the time, because they will attempt to deceive you about everything including homework, tests, and even what you've taught them.

Technology is creating a generation of socially inept monsters:

Since parents don't know how to raise their kids and give them boundaries (as described above), they resort to numbing their kids with smartphones, tablets, and computers. Kids as young as 7 years old have full functioning smartphones and tablets with internet access. This is insane.

No exaggeration, these kids get up and turn on their smartphone first thing in the morning. Sit at breakfast with their tablet. Do things on their phone during class. Then go home and sit on the computer the rest of the day. No wonder they can't sit still for 30 minutes if they are constantly being entertained by technology.

Now, what's worse is the effect on young girls. For my female cousins in Poland, sex was taboo. They didn't even want to talk about it. They've never seen pornography or hook-up culture.

Now I have 10 year old girls telling me about the porn videos they watch on their tablets. They have fake facebook accounts and talk to grown men and women. Imagine how much lower the bar will be for them once they reach 18?

The only saving grace is a strong, traditional family unit. Single-parent homes are still a minority, and in many cases totally unheard of. But often this is not enough. How many strippers and porn stars came from stable 2 parent homes in the Midwest?

Conclusion: Get ready for an Americanization of Eastern European women within the next 10 years.

I myself am from Eastern Europe and there is plenty of positive and negative things which I can write about them here. There is one thing that you should know and it is that in the eyes of women in Eastern Europe, american men are not exactly a huge prize, unless the girls are lower middle or lower class. There are chicks who would do americans and chicks who find being with an american as a major downgrade. Classier Eastern European girls know american men as hillbillies and would only be interested in a New York alpha male with at least USD 5 mil in the bank. Its a brand type of thing.
(09-16-2016 10:00 AM)Rocha Wrote: [ -> ]I can speak for Ukraine, and I have never seen a kid screaming or making a scene.
Yet, I have seen Ukrainian kids behaving poorly, but only western educated ones.

Nothing of this surprises me. But from experience in some cases and reading in others, there is possibly three eastern europe's. The one who fully embraced the West (Poland being the maximum exponent, also Estonia and Croatia for example), the still patriarchal to a certain extent "russian world" (Russia/Ukraine/Belarus/Moldova) and maybe the nations in the Balkans historically with affiliantions with Russia (Bulgaria and Serbia), and the ones in between (Romania, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, maybe Hungary...).

I do not know if Poland can still be considered Eastern Europe...but yes, at least up until now there are no migrants, lets hope it stays this way.
Poland is no longer Eastern Europe. A man now just has to slave it out and learn Russian well and then head further east.
This shit makes me sad

Same is happening in Korea but maybe not as bad

Can't hit children in schools anymore, etc.

Women acting like they run shit/acting rude

I think this is just a normal cycle though as civilizations get too rich, lazy, weak, complacent, etc. Fuck
(09-16-2016 02:48 PM)Constitution45 Wrote: [ -> ]One element of the culture that can be difficult for Westerners to get hold of over time, is the strange attitude towards money. Perhaps 'strange' is the wrong word to use. But after encountering girls who time and time again expect the man to pay for everything goes beyond chivalry and old time values. It's almost like a mental affliction., I am not simply referring to paying for meals, but girls you've been dating for 2-3 months expecting you to pay for holidays abroad.

this is pretty standard in slavic culture. upper class girls will try to keep score, and will pay every now and then, but good luck with average income women.
(09-17-2016 04:14 AM)whiteknightrises Wrote: [ -> ]This shit makes me sad

Same is happening in Korea but maybe not as bad

Can't hit children in schools anymore, etc.

Women acting like they run shit/acting rude

I think this is just a normal cycle though as civilizations get too rich, lazy, weak, complacent, etc. Fuck

Also. The fucking bullshit multiculturalism narrative being pushed by government, university, etc.

/rant
Next generation? Come to London and date EE European women. You will never want to visit EE again, when you realize the extent of rottenness. 'Westernized' EE ladies? Simply rubbish.

Especially Polish abroad are complete time wasters, followed by Romanians, Ukrainians and Hungarians. Black list.
I've never been to EE, but I can relate. I was living in China years ago. Back then, it was the biggest pussy paradise imaginable. I had zero game then yet was banging 18 year old girls left and right, many of them virgins, 100% of them having initiated. Saw it all dry up in the span of 5 years.

The same thing is apparently happening in Latin America, SEA, EE. The change in girls in the Philippines in the year I've been here has been noticeable.

Basically, Tesla was right -- men are fucked.
Eastern European women becoming spoiled bitches? No way!

When you have hordes of men flocking to come woo you, then yes, I can completely understand why EE women are changing. Demand soars, so prices rise.

It's part of the reason (to use Ukraine as an example), that I prefer women raised in Western/Eastern Ukraine, but that moved to Kyiv for school. In most cases, you don't have that bitchy attitude, but the rest of her personality/looks usually remain the same.

You can still find diamonds, and EE women will still be superior to their Western counterparts.
Maybe its the case in places like Prague, Poland and to a lesser extent Kiev where its been overrun with every sex tourist and his dog but remember, there's the FSU and there's still plenty of gold in dem dar hills.
(09-17-2016 08:56 AM)erikak Wrote: [ -> ]I've never been to EE, but I can relate. I was living in China years ago. Back then, it was the biggest pussy paradise imaginable. I had zero game then yet was banging 18 year old girls left and right, many of them virgins, 100% of them having initiated. Saw it all dry up in the span of 5 years.

The same thing is apparently happening in Latin America, SEA, EE. The change in girls in the Philippines in the year I've been here has been noticeable.

Basically, Tesla was right -- men are fucked.

Most. Depressing. Post. Ever.

[attachment=33478]

China? Philippines? Tell me it's not true.
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