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I think this is starting to warrant its own thread and I haven't seen an individual thread on it so forgive me if this is a dupe. The confirmation of this talk is this recent article on ROK.

http://www.returnofkings.com/169082/10-r...heast-asia

I've noticed in some threads where we start getting deep into region talk, EE located guys tend to come in and bash SEA pretty hard whereas I don't really see SEA guys throw around that same bashing too often towards EE. So, as a former SEA traveler, I want to defend team SEA a bit.

My question is, what is up with the SEA hate? EE guys tend to praise quality over quantity, but I've seen some of them take shots at even other forum members that stay in SEA saying they can't hack it in EE and shit when I don't believe that to be true based on some of the guys I've met and seen down there. I feel like EE guys are buying too much into the stigma or at least can't get away from the one the west has created about getting laid in SEA.

I'm not hating on EE guys preferring EE girls to SEA girls or even feeling more comfortable there. But I want to pick your brains a bit. Is it pure physical attraction to white girls over asian girls? Do you guys think they're smarter? Do you like the chase of a challenge? Is there something in the air of EE we are missing?

I mean from my perspective, I have plenty of white girls in the US. They're not that special to me physically and most are college educated, doesn't make me any more attracted to them. And I've met feminine white girls from EE before and I can see them being better than western ones, but I guess I would make the argument it's just being around nicer feminine chicks in general, which SEA and even SA can do for you. My argument for an SEA chick would be, particularly for Filipinas, that they may have the best combination of warmth, femininity, and optimism on life in the entire world.

Also from what I heard, I'm skeptical of cities like Bucharest, Kiev, Warsaw, Prague, etc. are really in so much better condition than say Ho Chi Minh, Bangkok, or Manila.

It'd be great to have some guys that have been to both regions chime in, but I feel like this is a discussion between the two groups that needs to be put out in the open.
(04-21-2018 03:18 PM)yankeetravels Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is starting to warrant its own thread and I haven't seen an individual thread on it so forgive me if this is a dupe. The confirmation of this talk is this recent article on ROK.

http://www.returnofkings.com/169082/10-r...heast-asia

I've noticed in some threads where we start getting deep into region talk, EE located guys tend to come in and bash SEA pretty hard whereas I don't really see SEA guys throw around that same bashing too often towards EE. So, as a former SEA traveler, I want to defend team SEA a bit.

My question is, what is up with the SEA hate? EE guys tend to praise quality over quantity, but I've seen some of them take shots at even other forum members that stay in SEA saying they can't hack it in EE and shit when I don't believe that to be true based on some of the guys I've met and seen down there. I feel like EE guys are buying too much into the stigma or at least can't get away from the one the west has created about getting laid in SEA.

I'm not hating on EE guys preferring EE girls to SEA girls or even feeling more comfortable there. But I want to pick your brains a bit. Is it pure physical attraction to white girls over asian girls? Do you guys think they're smarter? Do you like the chase of a challenge? Is there something in the air of EE we are missing?

I mean from my perspective, I have plenty of white girls in the US. They're not that special to me physically and most are college educated, doesn't make me any more attracted to them. And I've met feminine white girls from EE before and I can see them being better than western ones, but I guess I would make the argument it's just being around nicer feminine chicks in general, which SEA and even SA can do for you. My argument for an SEA chick would be, particularly for Filipinas, that they may have the best combination of warmth, femininity, and optimism on life in the entire world.

Also from what I heard, I'm skeptical of cities like Bucharest, Kiev, Warsaw, Prague, etc. are really in so much better condition than say Ho Chi Minh, Bangkok, or Manila.

It'd be great to have some guys that have been to both regions chime in, but I feel like this is a discussion between the two groups that needs to be put out in the open.

I've been to SEA and spent south of a year in Thailand and I've also have spent a lot of time in Japan. I live in EE and I'm an American.

Personally I don't like the accents which bothers me personally (some of my friends love it and that's their preference for/in which I don't fault them for).

SEA made me feel like I was in a constant state of chaos much like the Middle East and North Africa.

Using Tokyo as my most memorable Asia example is I felt like a meth addict the entire time. It was a lot of fun but I left exhausted after a few months. I felt the same leaving Thailand. I will admit Tokyo is one of my favorite cities on the planet but I could not live there.

I personally dislike the culture in Thailand and the Philippines specifically. I'm still curious to visit Vietnam but hated Cambodia.

To expand on my cultural dislike is for me personally it seemed like India or the Middle East. Getting locked up fucking a top tier girl or even a lower tier girl requires the entire families involvement. It's like adopting a shit load of people to get your dick wet with a regular girl and EE girls tend to reserve themselves/families although there is a element of that here as well.

To admit my bias as I went to MIT so by alum default I dated a lot of Asians in my undergrad years but I was also I was very beta then. Asian girls at least in Cambridge/Boston all came across as money and education obsessed. Even being well educated I never put a ton of weight on educational pursuits nor cared about becoming so wealthy as to support an entire family unit.

I did not feel that change when I traveled around SEA, Korea or Japan. My experience is limited as I never lived long term in SEA but I'm not a fan of the culture.

I met many great and very nice people + beautiful sweet girls but overall I prefer EE culture.

Note anyone hating on you or anyone for preferring a culture or country is stupid. Preferences are preferences and it does not make one man better or smarter than another. Don't worry about someone disliking your type of girls or culture. It's simply a forum. Not a popularity contest.

Dump some data on SEA for the guys who like that area and the culture. They'll enjoy reading your insights. Much like I very much enjoy reading EE, Balkan and Baltic data.
Well, I'm not sure if putting Warsaw or Prague next to Manila is actually accurate. Haven't been to Asia (yet), but Warsaw and Prague look better than some of the Western countries capitals and are very well preserved IN GENERAL, which I doubt can be said about SEA or even Kiev and Bucharest.
What about team Latin America?

[Image: giphy.gif]
Apples and oranges, not really worth comparing. Each has pros/cons and guys have different taste. I find articles focusing on negativity to be not worth reading in general, especially in a place where most guys are striving for self improvement. One of the main reasons I don't read sites like huffpost/buzzfeed and the media in general.
I've spent about a month in Thailand but lived several years in Eastern Europe and I've been to all the major cities in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Romania and Ukraine. I agree it's pretty much like comparing Apples and Oranges.

Apart from the difference in physical appearance, this question is like asking people which is better, New York or Los Angeles. Some people prefer one lifestyle and some another. I think a lot of Asian cities are big modern metropolises and EE cities are not quite so big and quite so urban. It's Old World vs Modern so guys who want to get away from the West, might feel in some ways like Asia is doubling down on it from a lifestyle point of view (you can look at that many ways, so don't hold me to that). When I look at the EE threads and the fact that southern countries like Romania, Bulgaria, the Balkans are less popular, I think a lot of it the differences have to do with the search for the more Northern European or Slavic style beauties.

For me, while I've gone out with Asian girls, I prefer girls that are taller and more shapely than the stereotypical Asian girl. So it took me a long time before I decided to check out Asia and I wasn't expecting much from that standpoint. Once I got there I was pleasantly surprised in pretty much all aspects. From lifestyle, general city vibe, cost of living, differences of the girls from the Asian girls I've known in the West and style of the bang. While I didn't find a lot of super hot babes, when I did find them I had a better pick-up rate.

All in all, I'll keep visiting both. Positive points for EE countries are proximity, girls more in line with my preferences with regard to appearances and for some countries more widespread English. Negative points are large numbers of foreign guys trying to get laid makes for a difficult pick-up atmosphere, local guys in those touristy locations can be stand-offish and the generally jaded attitude towards casual meetings with Western guys. Maybe they are hunting for the bang, but if not, in the more popular EE destinations where they can see foreigh guys everyday, they want you to prove you've got more to offer than a couple of nights of sex.

Positives for Thailand (my only Asian reference point and also for a much shorter term visit) are weather, the beach lifestyle, easier to meet girls, feminine and easy going girls, nightlife venues are more fun oriented, big cities that make it easier to be anonymous and provide lots of different places to go. Negatives would be large numbers of working girls that are sometimes hard to sort out from the normal ones, fewer good English speakers, fewer really attractive girls for my taste and the general level of chaos that comes with a huge metropolis or a big tourist destination
Generally, I'd say there's really no comparison.

Hell, I'd say there is no comparison between a place like Philipines and China, despite the fact that they're both roughly in the same region of the world. Personally, I'm not big on Pinays or the Philippines, but I try to avoid throwing shade at guys who like pinays and the Philippines.

I tend to find that more reserved/chill guys like EE whereas more high energy, extroverted guys really like Philippines. I think it's literally just different flavors for different people.
I've lived in SEA, EE & Latin America.

This is a huge generalisation, but I think there's some truth in it:

SEA is for beginners.

Latam is for intermediate.

EE is for advanced.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what is your objective? Is it just for fun and banging? Then all three regions are great for enjoying the ladies, and perhaps SEA wins the title for short-term bang trips, but I could not take them seriously as an LTR. It really depends on one's own personality and personal taste as to why they prefer one over another. For example, SEA girls are so thin, very submissive and easy to sleep with. Latinas are the most cariñosa and affectionate, and the culture/language is exciting.

Different strokes for different folks. And different regions depending on the stage of your game career Smile I've already had plenty of fun and my objective is to find something serious during the next 3-4 years approximately. That's why EE is the best for me. EE girls are more intelligent, on average. I am a sapiosexual, therefore a girl's brain is very important for me. The EE culture and mentality is something I can relate to and I could definitely create half-slavic offspring.

In SEA and Latam, the lack of brains and the huge culture/identity gap with my European identity is quite simply a deal-breaker for me.

The proverb that EE is quality over quantity is a truism for a reason.

Just my opinion, hope I don't offend anyone Smile
SEA is a lot easier for white guys.

Moscow or St Petersburg or Prague? Not do much.

You often have to spend weeks if not months to get laid, and to get real top tier, you need substantial time and money investment. We are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and years of gaming.

If you are crazy for Slavic looks like I did, you could talyor your niche to those girls and you will be successful if you persist and improve your game over months if not years.
(04-22-2018 08:07 AM)Jungle Wrote: [ -> ]I've lived in SEA, EE & Latin America.

This is a huge generalisation, but I think there's some truth in it:

SEA is for beginners.

Latam is for intermediate.

EE is for advanced.

Those indeed are some massive generalizations, as you rightly called out. But given we are looking at it through such a macro continental lens then what you're saying is basically true.

The problem with the question however is that you are only ever in one place in one city in one country in one continent at any one time. You're only ever banging one (or occasionally two/three if you're very lucky) chicks at any one time. So it's useless comparing continents when often there can still be an absolute chasm of difference between the quality of chicks (and people in general) between two bars right next door to eachother in any given town, never mind on opposite sides of the world.

All 3 continents have their great places, ok places and shit places. Within the best cities of all 3 continents they'll have both easy chicks and hard chicks, smart chicks and dumb chicks, hot chicks and rough chicks. Also, who you're hanging with and partying with makes a MASSIVE difference. I'd rather go to a shit town with a couple of solid mates/forum members than being forced to hang out with a pair of game obsessed bellends in Jakarta, Belgrade or Medellin.

Most guys who are doing it right are travelling to those specific best locations the world has to offer, hanging out with solid guys and hitting up the best venues and having the best time regardless of whether it's in SEA, EE or Latam. In addition to that a lot of the more solid RVF members are either basing themselves up in one or a few of these places - getting the best venues there on lock, making friends & contacts, hooking themselves into the social circles and understanding how best to game the chicks (and building a hareem). Which in turn they are able to share that intel with you, take you out and introduce you to their social cirlce & girls - saving you months of groundwork on arrival. Which is reciprocated in turn whenever they're on your home turf.

There have been numerous RVF inner circles formed as a result of this where guys are regularly meeting up with eachother all over the globe. Tho such inner circles of course have to be by invitation only to keep the many aspies, mongs and leeches out

(04-22-2018 08:55 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote: [ -> ]SEA is a lot easier for white guys.

Moscow or St Petersburg or Prague? Not do much.

You often have to spend weeks if not months to get laid, and to get real top tier, you need substantial time and money investment. We are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and years of gaming.

It's probably worth pointing out here that very few forum dudes are banging top tier in SEA also. I know that is in direct contradiction to the glorious SE Asia reports we've all read here, but that's just from what I've seen with my own two eyes over the last 5 years.

Sloppy tinder 5s sure, plenty of that going on. But when it comes to the top drawer that's on offer here (albeit not in the same league as EE/Russia), but there's really only a handful of guys I've seen who have been able to tap into that (you know who you are Wink)
I have seen some guys tap into the best girls in SEA, not pua but through social circles. Let’s define top tier as mainly looks, not personality or other things.

In places like Moscow, often times you can’t even “get in” to a club let alone gaming. You spend years if not decades trying to learn Russian. The barrier to entry are much higher in EE and also Latam, where locals are very competitive. Most don’t have approach anxiety and are naturals with woman. A lot know how to dance.

In LATAM it is even more about social circles than SEA, and you need to know the local customs, language, and way of socialising. Most “gringos” just stick to few places and the “gringo hunters”aren’t that attractive.

SEA is easy due to the cost benefit ratio and some people hate on that, especially after reading on those lay reports by guys in Manila, BKK etc. I have lost count how many +1 reports I have seen with Filipinas.
SE Asia for the most part is the third world with a fresh paint. In the places you mentioned: Saigon, Manila or Bangkok you can't even drink the tap water without getting sick.
Eastern Europe has much better quality of life. Places like Prague are cleaner, safer and nicer than Paris for example.
There are many other advantages:
- freedom of movement, no visas required if you're an European citizen
- similar culture, very important if you're staying long term
- 4 seasons, some people don't want to sweat 360 days a year, some enjoy winter sports
- higher IQ, there's a 15-20 point difference between SE Asia and EE depending what countries you're looking at
- girls are better built, don't look like jail-bait when they're 25
- unless you have yellow fever most SE Asian girls don't pass the boner test, when I think of hot Asian women I think of Japanese or South Koreans not Thais or Filipinas
- laws are more liberal when it comes to drugs, no cartels roaming around, lack of no-go zones
- better infrastructure: high speed trains, highways, fast adoption of latest technology

I don't think anybody is hating on SE Asia, if that's what floats your boat then go for it. What I find amusing is that some people still think that EE countries are third world shitholes. I was also guilty of this before I traveled there.
A lot of good discussion in here so far. I just want to respond to some of the comments and help keep this discussion going.

(04-21-2018 03:56 PM)nola Wrote: [ -> ]Using Tokyo as my most memorable Asia example is I felt like a meth addict the entire time. It was a lot of fun but I left exhausted after a few months. I felt the same leaving Thailand. I will admit Tokyo is one of my favorite cities on the planet but I could not live there.

To expand on my cultural dislike is for me personally it seemed like India or the Middle East. Getting locked up fucking a top tier girl or even a lower tier girl requires the entire families involvement. It's like adopting a shit load of people to get your dick wet with a regular girl and EE girls tend to reserve themselves/families although there is a element of that here as well.

To admit my bias as I went to MIT so by alum default I dated a lot of Asians in my undergrad years but I was also I was very beta then. Asian girls at least in Cambridge/Boston all came across as money and education obsessed. Even being well educated I never put a ton of weight on educational pursuits nor cared about becoming so wealthy as to support an entire family unit.

I did not feel that change when I traveled around SEA, Korea or Japan. My experience is limited as I never lived long term in SEA but I'm not a fan of the culture.

Note anyone hating on you or anyone for preferring a culture or country is stupid. Preferences are preferences and it does not make one man better or smarter than another. Don't worry about someone disliking your type of girls or culture. It's simply a forum. Not a popularity contest.

Dump some data on SEA for the guys who like that area and the culture. They'll enjoy reading your insights. Much like I very much enjoy reading EE, Balkan and Baltic data.

Tokyo is definitely underrated in that department. I partied harder there than famous party cities like New Orleans and Manila. Nearly lost my life over there because of it too, but that's another story. Fair enough on Asian broads. There are definitely some cultures that have a strong focus on stability and materialism. However, this is not always the case. I dated an American-Cantonese girl that may have been the most financially frugal I've ever been involved with. The other serious girl I dated was a Filipina, who never seemed too concerned about money with me despite me suspecting she was lower class. What I would say was a bigger thing for both of them was face and respect. My first ex cared a lot about the image I presented to her parents and my second ex had a lot of indirect communication to save face. It's part of both of their cultures, and I'd argue this matters more than the money.

No one on the forum has specifically targeted me by the way with taking shots on being a SEA traveler, I've just seen it in other old threads on the forum multiple times between other members, so I thought it should get called out and discussed openly. My main knowledge of SEA is the Philippines, but there's a 220+ page thread on it already so a datasheet would be pointless, though I have given advice to other members privately and in that thread while I was on the ground and even now back home in the US.


(04-21-2018 04:12 PM)aeroektar Wrote: [ -> ]What about team Latin America?

[Image: giphy.gif]

I busted a gut seeing this as this from an American's perspective seems like almost the perfect way to represent Latin America's wild side. I didn't forget about LA, but I didn't think it was relevant in this discussion because I don't see EE guys talk negatively about LA nearly as much as SEA.

(04-22-2018 07:17 AM)JohnQPublic Wrote: [ -> ]I think a lot of Asian cities are big modern metropolises and EE cities are not quite so big and quite so urban. It's Old World vs Modern so guys who want to get away from the West, might feel in some ways like Asia is doubling down on it from a lifestyle point of view (you can look at that many ways, so don't hold me to that).

I can't speak for the physical cities, but I don't get the vibe in Asia at all that they're doubling down on the west. The structure is title, the people are a lot more respectful, and socially they are all the polar opposite of westerners. I consider that for the most part to be a good thing. I've never been to EE, but from an American's perspective, I actually thought that was the place expats were doubling down on the west because they wanted girls more culturally similar to them, but also more feminine and pleasant to be around. The attraction to Asia for me at least is that it IS completely different from the west.

(04-22-2018 09:54 AM)Irish Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-22-2018 08:07 AM)Jungle Wrote: [ -> ]I've lived in SEA, EE & Latin America.

This is a huge generalisation, but I think there's some truth in it:

SEA is for beginners.

Latam is for intermediate.

EE is for advanced.

Those indeed are some massive generalizations, as you rightly called out. But given we are looking at it through such a macro continental lens then what you're saying is basically true.

The problem with the question however is that you are only ever in one place in one city in one country in one continent at any one time. You're only ever banging one (or occasionally two/three if you're very lucky) chicks at any one time. So it's useless comparing continents when often there can still be an absolute chasm of difference between the quality of chicks (and people in general) between two bars right next door to eachother in any given town, never mind on opposite sides of the world.

All 3 continents have their great places, ok places and shit places. Within the best cities of all 3 continents they'll have both easy chicks and hard chicks, smart chicks and dumb chicks, hot chicks and rough chicks. Also, who you're hanging with and partying with makes a MASSIVE difference. I'd rather go to a shit town with a couple of solid mates/forum members than being forced to hang out with a pair of game obsessed bellends in Jakarta, Belgrade or Medellin.

Most guys who are doing it right are travelling to those specific best locations the world has to offer, hanging out with solid guys and hitting up the best venues and having the best time regardless of whether it's in SEA, EE or Latam. In addition to that a lot of the more solid RVF members are either basing themselves up in one or a few of these places - getting the best venues there on lock, making friends & contacts, hooking themselves into the social circles and understanding how best to game the chicks (and building a hareem). Which in turn they are able to share that intel with you, take you out and introduce you to their social cirlce & girls - saving you months of groundwork on arrival. Which is reciprocated in turn whenever they're on your home turf.

There have been numerous RVF inner circles formed as a result of this where guys are regularly meeting up with eachother all over the globe. Tho such inner circles of course have to be by invitation only to keep the many aspies, mongs and leeches out

(04-22-2018 08:55 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote: [ -> ]SEA is a lot easier for white guys.

Moscow or St Petersburg or Prague? Not do much.

You often have to spend weeks if not months to get laid, and to get real top tier, you need substantial time and money investment. We are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, and years of gaming.

It's probably worth pointing out here that very few forum dudes are banging top tier in SEA also. I know that is in direct contradiction to the glorious SE Asia reports we've all read here, but that's just from what I've seen with my own two eyes over the last 5 years.

Sloppy tinder 5s sure, plenty of that going on. But when it comes to the top drawer that's on offer here (albeit not in the same league as EE/Russia), but there's really only a handful of guys I've seen who have been able to tap into that (you know who you are Wink)

I'll address Jungle and worldtraveler here first. This seems to be the common stereotype around here, and I'll admit the truth here is that based on reports, I will agree for me a big lure to take my first solo trip to the Philippines vs. a LA or EE country was not only that I prefer Asian chicks, but that they were friendly, willing, and submissive for dating and sex. Plus the sheer abundance is very hard to pass up as a horny younger guy or even a middle aged guy that's not getting any action in the west. BUT, I think Irish addressed this beautifully which I'll go into in a second. My point with this though is I think it's more true with how guys decide where they are first going to travel versus where guys end up.

As for if SEA has a white guy advantage, I'd say yes and no. White guys definitely have an advantage compared to locals and other SEA males, maybe one less layer than other westerners, but that's where I think it ends. It's true, they'll start at higher value, but honestly from what I've seen and heard, northeast asians have the same, if not a bigger advantage than white westerners for being from the first world, usually more willing to drop money, and having a better asian culture connection, so less stigma. Western natives also have a huge advantage that we don't to slay, for example a Filipino-American that's traveling to the Philippines to visit extended family or go on vacation. As for black guys, I've talked to a few over there and they seem to do just fine. The key for that seems to be making clear that they're from the west and not Africa. Some have told me once that's established, they go on just like everybody else.

As for Irish, his response to both of the above was beautifully said, and really the message I was going for with this thread. This is why I wanted a SEA veteran to chime in here. His overall point being that there's good and bad people along with hot and ugly girls everywhere is entirely accurate, and really sinks in once you start going to more countries. Hell, I've been to less than 10 countries and I've already seen this first hand everywhere I go. The bros you meet in SEA are very underrated. I can tell you guys that without a handful of forum members in SEA, my experience would not have been nearly the same. One guy I met had a girl but was in Manila enough before as a single guy to have every single restaurant, bar, and whatnot locked down. The dude was a legit fountain of knowledge that helped me steer my way through the Philippines, along with providing great recommendations for other island hopping stops and activities. Then, I met another dude that basically slays more than most guys I've seen in the world, right there in SEA. Had club connections and hot girl contacts locked down, hooked me up with a lot of club nights. Also, there's other RVF travelers where we kind of did mutual favors and each of us providing a unique vibe and skill to the table.

I'll also agree with what he said about top tier talent. Honestly, the 9's I see in the Philippines are either from the west just traveling (the only one I saw in a club was from California) or they're models. I'll admit in my first marathon, I was averaging about a 5.5 for girl looks really because I did a lot of online game overwhelmed with options lol, so I just responded to who took the least time that didn't look ugly mostly. But, my standards went up for girls I was trying to make a main or get more serious with. My main there was at least a point higher than my average for ONS. That's the fun part of SEA though. You get presented with so many options that the challenge isn't getting laid, the challenge is finding quality to put in your harem, as a main, or even as a LTR for the more serious guys.
EE white girls tend to have better bodies, as previously mentioned, and a lot of times first world hygiene. It’s true though, the WGF makes SEA tempting. It’s also true for white dudes if you intend to find a girl your serious about, which I don’t personally, that you might want your kids strongly resembling you which is easier to do without th a Slavic chick.
(04-21-2018 03:56 PM)nola Wrote: [ -> ]To admit my bias as I went to MIT so by alum default I dated a lot of Asians in my undergrad years but I was also I was very beta then. Asian girls at least in Cambridge/Boston all came across as money and education obsessed. Even being well educated I never put a ton of weight on educational pursuits nor cared about becoming so wealthy as to support an entire family unit.

The normal game for Chinese girls is going for the bang first and trying to lock down the guy after that right away. Works for them in China, doesn't tend to work in the west unless the guy is very beta.

They're education and employee status oriented because that's the safe path which Chinese women are always focused on for themselves.

Given that the thread is SEA oriented I doubt you'll find any SEA girls without Chinese blood in MIT. South East Asians just don't stack up, which is why the place is forever developing.

Quote:Getting locked up fucking a top tier girl or even a lower tier girl requires the entire families involvement. It's like adopting a shit load of people to get your dick wet with a regular girl and EE girls tend to reserve themselves/families although there is a element of that here as well.

Top tier girls in any country don't tend to go for foreigners ever. You got local wealthy guys lining up for them and even in poor countries there tend to be enough to go around that have more to offer than an average western guy.

The only girls from better families I have met in Thailand that were open to western guys aren't beauties (6s with makeup) were usually poisoned by feminism due to studying in anglo countries, have insane demands from guys (what kind of top tier earning good looking guy is going to end up long term in a dysfunctional 3rd world shithole?) and would still require the buy in from daddy whose money she lives on if you want to LTR.

Naturally she wants you to take over for him forever while she lazes around with the girls all day. Servant staff is required as they're already used to it.

Now you might say: Who cares about the background of the girl anyway? Pretty girls from lesser background tend to become second wifes, gentlemen's club hostesses (for regular customers or the right price they'll put out) or high end soapie hookers.

That's pretty dicey territory + they don't speak English. Just like you wouldn't go near hookers in western countries it's not a good idea in SEA either.

SEA generally is a losing proposition to me if you aren't looking to fuck and chuck average girls when you have a hard time getting laid back home.

Slavic women on average age absolutely horribly and by 30 they tend to look like sour milk. Exceptions are rare. It's generally an absolutely horrible proposition to me LTR wise due to this + they want absolute winners (alpha attitude, top tier income, oligarch tier money from white collar crime even better and will nag you to death if you don't stack up in their mind). That's why so many Russian guys with average to below average means tend to turn to alcoholism or wife beating and the life expectancy is generally very low.
I think it has to do with a combination of personal backgrounds and the media.

10, 20, and 30 years ago, the American media touted the All-American blonde cheerleader type as the model of beauty. In fact, in some places, minority women were not even allowed to be cheerleaders, for example, via official or unofficial rules (See Crystal City: https://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/conten...-1969-1970). And this isn't just cheerleaders, it was the same for actresses and other women who set society's beauty standards (See Raquel Welch, originally Jo Raquel Tejada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raquel_Wel...al_career, and she looks white, you could forget about it if you were a more mestiza-looking beauty).

So essentially, what we had in America/Hollywood/Western Media during the time many of us grew up was a system which let minority women know, in no uncertain terms, that they were ugly. This system also let white men know that white women were the standard of beauty to be sought after, also in no uncertain terms. Latin American media did the same, except over there instead of being a dichotomy of white/not white, it's set up more along a spectrum of whiter to less white. In both cases, America and Latin America, having a baby that didn't look white would, in a very real sense, create negative social consequences for the child. Even today, some white guys say, "I want my baby to look like me." For some, yeah, it's a choice made in a vacuum, I suppose, but in many cases, it's a well-thought out position of, "If my kid looks half asian, he will have social difficulties growing up, if he looks half black, he will also have social difficulties growing up, if he has a tan, etc."

People want the best for their children, and in much of the world, being white is still a positive. I myself benefit from that when I travel around the world, it is what it is. We want what's best for our kids and making them as white as possible is still an advantage, but it's becoming less so every day.

So that's the big picture. Zooming in to our world travelers of today, many of the forum members tend to be late bloomers. As in, many of them were not getting the blonde cheerleaders in high school. They didn't bang them, they didn't marry them, and they didn't have children with them and live happily ever after. If they did, they wouldn't be in Eastern Europe.

So what's happening is these EE guys grew up in a society that idolized white women, the apex of which they were shown were blondes, and they were shown that minority (SEA, but also others) women were inferior and ugly. Minority women were the maids and concubines, the side pieces, while the blonde was the main course. Hence, "Eastern Europe is for quality, SEA is for quantity." Our beauty standards, just like many other aspects of our thoughts, are very much affected by the media.

If people in Tehran are told every day that America is evil, will many of them believe that? Absolutely. Not all, but many will. And they'll think they came to that conclusion on their own, too. Now, what happens if an Iranian travels to America and meets regular Americans? Will his thoughts on Americans change? They may, they may not, but they'll be much more likely to have changed compared to his contemporary who stayed back in Tehran and never socialized with any Americans at all.

So these guys grew up in a culture that exalted white women as bombshells/wives/mothers, while denigrating minority women as maids and hookers. What do you think the result will be 10, 20, 30 years later? 10, 20, or 30 years later, these guys are now more successful than most and are able to live anywhere in the world. Where to go? Well, where are the blonde cheerleaders, or the closest thing to them, that are the easiest to bed versus the other beautiful white women around the world, that they could never get in their youth? Eastern Europe.

So yeah, why the hate on SEA? Because for the last century, American media, and society, espoused a view of SEA being full of concubines and maids, and most people, myself included are affected by the media and by society at large.

Also, blonde inflation, people were brought up to worship hot white girls, they were never able to bang them in high school, and now they have a shot at banging girls as hot as their high school cheerleaders and god damn it, they're taking that shot!

Nothing wrong with that.

And for those of us that have had more multicultural experiences (note that banging Thai hookers and destitute Filipino 5's doesn't make someone more aware in this sense, if anything, it'll deepen pre-existing narratives) and are able to compare, many of us take the Asian girl as a better overall package due in part to their higher emotional/social IQ. Some don't, some guys prefer the taller, more broad-shouldered, bigger-nosed, hairier, visible-veined, stronger-jawed white women with tits that will one day reach their belly buttons.

No, but on a serious note, I think some white girls are cute, for sure, but I'm a long term guy, and white girls age like poop. Plus, noses keep getting bigger as you age, and white girls start off with noses that are too big to begin with, so some end up looking like witches in children's books. Small noses are where it's at.

We all have our preferences, and that's ok.

And let's be real, some post on the RooshV forum isn't going to change 100 plus years of media saying minority women are either ugly, or, alternatively, beautiful but only good for being your whore.

Things are changing and the younger generation will have different beauty standards in the future, but it is what it is.
As a guy who has spent time in SEA but is now based in EE, I agree that there is no need to hate on SEA. The region has many things going for it and I would highly recommend guys to visit if they haven't been already. Life is not all about girls, and there's lots to see and experience, even without the abundance of willing young ladies.

However, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, it does really come down to quality over quantity. In my experience there is probably an average of a two point differential between the girls that guys in SEA and EE are dating. I would say that the average forum guy in somewhere like Bangkok is banging mostly 5's and 6's, while the average forum guy in Moscow is banging mostly 7's and 8's.

Why is there this differential? Well, firstly, girls in EE are just much more attractive - there aren't that many really hot girls in SEA. Secondly, I think the type of guy who posts up in EE is often concentrated on trying to find high-end quality, while that ambition is quite rare among guys in SEA.

Another reason is perhaps that SEA has a lot of the "location independent" types who stay in a place for a month before moving on. This puts a limit on the quality they can shoot for, because pretty much everywhere the top girls aren't giving it up easily for guys passing through. This maybe deserves discussion in its own thread, but in my experience, long-term expats who have never even heard of game are often outperforming our travelling lotharios posting about their latest +1 from Tinder in SEA.

Of course, when I talk about the "average forum guy" there are outliers in SEA. I know a number of guys who are based in SEA cities long term. They are learning the language, building businesses, stacking cash, cultivating social circles and dating girls that would still turn heads in EE. Irish is a good example of this. Sadly, this is not the norm. 90% of the forum's SEA conquests would be face-controlled and refused entry to the clubs frequented by the Moscow squad.
-Delete
Don't think guys are hating on SEA, but it's rightfully pointed out as place guys go because they can't hack it in the West or EE for whatever reason (age, looks). Most guys would choose a sexy slav over your typical 5 Pinay, but said slavs are inaccessible to them.

There are guys who could do well in both but choose SEA because of how easy it is, has better weather and a more enjoyable culture (to them).
(04-22-2018 01:18 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote: [ -> ]Don't think guys are hating on SEA, but it's rightfully pointed out as place guys go because they can't hack it in the West or EE for whatever reason (age, looks).

This is the very definition of hating on SEA. The whole point of this thread was to call this shit out. The hacking it in the west excuse doesn't make sense for redpill men. Isn't the entire point of this forum to say there's better women in the world to find then being stuck with entitled western girls? You should read the recent post in the Colombia thread about a Colombian girl that moved to Australia to get my point here.

I understand there's middle aged guys or guys with low social ability that do go to SEA, but I think this is the case almost everywhere in the world, which was the point I was trying to make with this thread and what Irish summed up in his post very well. There's just more of a stigma to it in SEA because the girls there are what western women don't understand but know they lose guys to them so there's shaming going on. Like I said before, I have met guys that absolutely slay in SEA that get quality and some can get the same quality in the west.

(04-22-2018 11:55 AM)LoveBug Wrote: [ -> ]It’s also true for white dudes if you intend to find a girl your serious about, which I don’t personally, that you might want your kids strongly resembling you which is easier to do without th a Slavic chick.

Some men have said that in this thread and I respect if that's their preference. I won't be an SJW and call racism lol. I guess I just never really cared about it. Also, I tend to believe a mix between white (yes I'm white) and either a SEA or NEA girl works out very well for the kids in the looks department anyway.

(04-22-2018 07:30 AM)Fortis Wrote: [ -> ]I tend to find that more reserved/chill guys like EE whereas more high energy, extroverted guys really like Philippines.

I'm curious what expats you have met in the Philippines lol. I tend to find the opposite to be true. A lot of guys I have met in the Philippines are more of introverts, including myself. But, that's why the Philippines is appealing to us. You don't really need to have high energy like you do in the west and from what I've heard LA. Just have to have frame/confidence. My theory on EE guys was that they were a balance between extrovert and introvert, with the true extroverts going towards LA.

(04-22-2018 12:41 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it has to do with a combination of personal backgrounds and the media.

10, 20, and 30 years ago, the American media touted the All-American blonde cheerleader type as the model of beauty. In fact, in some places, minority women were not even allowed to be cheerleaders.

So essentially, what we had in America/Hollywood/Western Media during the time many of us grew up was a system which let minority women know, in no uncertain terms, that they were ugly. This system also let white men know that white women were the standard of beauty to be sought after, also in no uncertain terms. Latin American media did the same, except over there instead of being a dichotomy of white/not white, it's set up more along a spectrum of whiter to less white. In both cases, America and Latin America, having a baby that didn't look white would, in a very real sense, create negative social consequences for the child. Even today, some white guys say, "I want my baby to look like me." For some, yeah, it's a choice made in a vacuum, I suppose, but in many cases, it's a well-thought out position of, "If my kid looks half asian, he will have social difficulties growing up, if he looks half black, he will also have social difficulties growing up, if he has a tan, etc."

People want the best for their children, and in much of the world, being white is still a positive. I myself benefit from that when I travel around the world, it is what it is. We want what's best for our kids and making them as white as possible is still an advantage, but it's becoming less so every day.

So that's the big picture. Zooming in to our world travelers of today, many of the forum members tend to be late bloomers. As in, many of them were not getting the blonde cheerleaders in high school. They didn't bang them, they didn't marry them, and they didn't have children with them and live happily ever after. If they did, they wouldn't be in Eastern Europe.

So what's happening is these EE guys grew up in a society that idolized white women, the apex of which they were shown were blondes, and they were shown that minority (SEA, but also others) women were inferior and ugly. Minority women were the maids and concubines, the side pieces, while the blonde was the main course. Hence, "Eastern Europe is for quality, SEA is for quantity." Our beauty standards, just like many other aspects of our thoughts, are very much affected by the media.

So these guys grew up in a culture that exalted white women as bombshells/wives/mothers, while denigrating minority women as maids and hookers. What do you think the result will be 10, 20, 30 years later? 10, 20, or 30 years later, these guys are now more successful than most and are able to live anywhere in the world. Where to go? Well, where are the blonde cheerleaders, or the closest thing to them, that are the easiest to bed versus the other beautiful white women around the world, that they could never get in their youth? Eastern Europe.

So yeah, why the hate on SEA? Because for the last century, American media, and society, espoused a view of SEA being full of concubines and maids, and most people, myself included are affected by the media and by society at large.

Also, blonde inflation, people were brought up to worship hot white girls, they were never able to bang them in high school, and now they have a shot at banging girls as hot as their high school cheerleaders and god damn it, they're taking that shot!

Nothing wrong with that.

And for those of us that have had more multicultural experiences (note that banging Thai hookers and destitute Filipino 5's doesn't make someone more aware in this sense, if anything, it'll deepen pre-existing narratives) and are able to compare, many of us take the Asian girl as a better overall package due in part to their higher emotional/social IQ. Some don't, some guys prefer the taller, more broad-shouldered, bigger-nosed, hairier, visible-veined, stronger-jawed white women with tits that will one day reach their belly buttons.

No, but on a serious note, I think some white girls are cute, for sure, but I'm a long term guy, and white girls age like poop. Plus, noses keep getting bigger as you age, and white girls start off with noses that are too big to begin with, so some end up looking like witches in children's books. Small noses are where it's at.

We all have our preferences, and that's ok.

And let's be real, some post on the RooshV forum isn't going to change 100 plus years of media saying minority women are either ugly, or, alternatively, beautiful but only good for being your whore.

Things are changing and the younger generation will have different beauty standards in the future, but it is what it is.

YES YES YES to this post. I would like this twice if I could. It's amazingly accurate and really what I think is the case with EE guys. I'm not knocking EE guys, but my theory with some of them is they don't want to completely leave the west behind and still have western beauty ideals, but at the same time they want a better love life and more traditional and feminine women. This is not a knock by any means, but I think the media and cultural influence you summed up describes the current reason for an EE preference very well, along with the shaming stigma of guys that like it in SEA.

I don't want to comment too much on EE, but I think because I have such an Asian preference in beauty standards, I look at EE girls as just more feminine white girls. Guys have said they want a girl with a brain, but I find that logic very interesting considering the smartest women in the world education wise are arguably in the west, yet we all hate that about them along with the feminism lol. So, I guess that just doesn't appeal to me.

I agree about the aging thing too which is why I give points to SEA girls there too. These girls age AMAZINGLY well compared to white girls. Like seriously, some of these girls are still fuckable at 40, which is rare for me to see from a white girl. From what I've seen in the US and Asia, I feel like you get at least 10 more beauty years from an Asian chick, so that may be in the back of my head too since I don't think I'll be on the prowl and clubbing for the rest of my life.

I do think I need to get out to LA and EE at some point and check those regions out for myself, since I really only have experience in a handful of Asian countries, but I guess I'm a guy that goes against the grain a bit and when I date Filipinas, yes you have to go through girls that may not be the best quality, but when you find a gem after going on like 10 dates with not the most memorable girls (even though I bang a lot of them), you do appreciate what you have in front of you and my main native Asian chicks have given me things from girls I could never find from the west, and from what I hear, I'm not confident if that part would be in EE. Also, I do like dating warmer chicks. I have heard Russian and Ukranian chicks can be kind of cold, but I'm not sure about the rest of the region.
It's normal for people to find people with similar features as them attractive. Some of you are using SJW and aggrieved feminist talking points with whole Hollywood is brainwashing men to find blondes or whatever attractive thus causing them to over look other women. In reality Hollywood like any other place is a business they are going to give the public what they want, and the public back then apparently liked blondes. This is normal because helps to ensure the continuation of a species.

In any case I have not really noticed EE guys hating on SEA. I personally like both in their own way but I am not going to knock another man for his choice.
I wouldn't hate on SEA, each man to his own and all that. But life there is not as pleasant for me as in Europe and there's a reason most supermodels come from EE.

Guys that love SEA are generally the less good looking types who are looking to bang whores or try and date up, or date much younger girls. If I was a 60yr old guy who was struggling to bang I would consider Phillipines.

Tbh the only thinfs I miss about SEA is the fruit and whizzing around on motorbike
Do what makes you happy, live where you want to live. Don't worry too much about what others think if it's working for you.

That should handle most concerns, but we're also social creatures. It is rewarding to bring in friends to our local circles and see them enjoy the things we do, and it can be bit disappointing when they don't. I think most of us are wired to want those to like and dislike the same things we like. Stumbling upon Rene Girard's theories of desire, and why we want others to like the same thing we do was one of the most groundbreaking things I've uncovered in a while:





Shared desires and dislikes is part of what establishes our place in a tribe, or another way to say it: our status in the social hierarchy. This forum largely revolves around game, so establishing yourself as having better game than others is a way of vying for status. It's perfectly natural, and it has a use. If I wanted game advice, I'd be asking it from someone that's established as a game expert. When self declared experts without the experience necessary to have a varied perspective seek to become an authority on a topic, we all suffer. That doesn't mean someone's perspective should be dismissed outright, but it's worth seeing how it fits in the whole.

Getting invested in one's status in a hierarchy can also be self defeating if the ends don't lead to your own satisfaction with life. I think as men get older, we worry less about other's opinions of ourselves, and I think that's a good thing. At the end of the day, do what works for you. Don't burn bridges, but at the same time, follow your own path.

I've learned a lot from this forum over the years, but as time goes on, game has become a lower priority in my life. Some of my friends are different, and I know they'd be restless with one girl after a while, but I think most guys are wired to pair bond, and sex becomes a lower need on Manslow's hierarchy.

For a lot of guys, sex is a lot like food: If you're not getting it, it's a lot more important than if you are. At least for me personally, it's not as important as people make it out to be, and I think it'd be an effort of diminishing returns to structure my life around purely banging multiple best looking women in the world.

It's fun when you're in your 20s, and I think every guy should experience it to know they have options and to hold that nugget with them should they ever get into a relationship. But for most guys, the most healthy way to see it is probably as an important phase of their life. Though there are some guys who would be happiest as bachelors for life, and if it sounds like I'm trying to tell them how they should live their life, then I've entirely missed the point of what I'm trying to get across.

On the other hand, structuring your life around getting the best looking women, and making sure that others know it and approve of it might not be the best course of action long term. You may find that the personality of the women clash with yours, that you don't like the environment, or that the approval of others is fickle and doesn't provide you with any tangible satisfaction. We also change over time, and what gives you satisfaction at one stage of your life may not be fruitful in another.

And let's not dismiss some valid points here. Just because someone doesn't like a place doesn't mean they're hating. Sometimes personal tastes and observations are warranted, and help us judge a place to know if it's right for us before getting invested in going there.

Rather than clash with someone who doesn't like your favorite place, it's good to keep an open mind and consider exploring the place they champion. Who knows, you may find a new favorite spot. It's good to dismiss toxic or unwarranted criticism, but also good not to have rose tinted glasses about the sometimes harsh realities of our preferred places. Criticism is not always hate. Sometimes it's the catalyst we need to improve or try something new.

Online forums help give people anonymity, and over time you can pick up certain patterns of behavior. Sometimes people will blame a place for their own failures, when you know the guys who are getting the top shelf there are doing just fine. Sometimes guys will dislike each other, and look for justifications and rationalizations for their resentment. Sometimes guys are insecure, and need to compare themselves to other guys to reassure themselves.

Every community is a microcosm of wider society, and we're all human going through different stages of our life. Mixed in with unwarranted critique is often good information, and it's better to not throw the baby out with the bath water. Tribes are very difficult to unite, considering we all have different tastes and inclinations. People will compete for status in the hierarchy, and subgroups will form, so minor conflicts will arise from time to time. It's probably best not to get too invested in opinions that don't work for you. Communities can be beneficial, and we can learn a lot from the experiences of others. But it's also important to keep your own priorities and goals in perspective, and walk your own path.
Youngish Australian of EA background via way of SEA. Currently based in a SEA country (Singapore) that is basically an outlier among its neighbours.

It's basically a sanitised London-cum-Monaco. Pretty much none of the characteristics we'd bring up about SEA don't apply to it.

I'll assume we'll disqualify it insofar as any SEA discussion is concerned.

I've travelled throughout swathes of EE, SEA, and SA, without having put down long-term roots in any of them. Will have plans for Poland and Ukraine later this year.

Indeed, I'll agree with the whole "Apples and oranges" idea that whereas these are two very general regions RVF guys popularly expatriate to as an alternative to Western, that's pretty much where the similarities end. Far be it for me to add too much subjective bias, I'll go into them below. I believe that the preferences go beyond preferring white or Asian women. In any case, no-one has yet pointed out that there is no shortage of EE women in SEA. Idea

(04-22-2018 01:00 PM)Riquelme Wrote: [ -> ]However, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, it does really come down to quality over quantity. In my experience there is probably an average of a two point differential between the girls that guys in SEA and EE are dating. I would say that the average forum guy in somewhere like Bangkok is banging mostly 5's and 6's, while the average forum guy in Moscow is banging mostly 7's and 8's.

Why is there this differential? Well, firstly, girls in EE are just much more attractive - there aren't that many really hot girls in SEA. Secondly, I think the type of guy who posts up in EE is often concentrated on trying to find high-end quality, while that ambition is quite rare among guys in SEA.

This. I'd be the first to talk down sweeping generalisations that even guys on the forum can be prone to making of entire regions. Of course in any region populated by millions of women, you'll find more than enough HB7's +. That should be evident even if you're not into Asian chicks. Whether these hot girls are accessible, or abundant at first sight, is another matter. When I was in Vietnam recently, I noticed said Hi-So hotties filing into clubs that for the most part, foreigners were oblivious to, and probably would have been hard pressed to get in.

No, where EE shines is the sheer evidence that the average bar is raised the minute you set foot on the street. Whether accessible to the average guy or not — not that I believe that you should be content being the average guy — the standard is a clear few points above what you enjoy in SEA; and this is before you even enter high end venues. Does that mean that they're equally likely to hop on your dick? No, but that sheer abundance means you can go from option to option.

I don't think you have to go as far as EE to see this quantum leap in beauty. I was already woke as to greener pastures during a layover at Copenhagen Kastrup years ago.

(04-22-2018 01:18 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote: [ -> ]Don't think guys are hating on SEA, but it's rightfully pointed out as place guys go because they can't hack it in the West or EE for whatever reason (age, looks). Most guys would choose a sexy slav over your typical 5 Pinay, but said slavs are inaccessible to them.

There are guys who could do well in both but choose SEA because of how easy it is, has better weather and a more enjoyable culture (to them).

Other guys have called this out as feminist male-shaming; but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that that judgement can indeed be applied to some guys that go SEA. On the other hand, I've met the RVF Saigon crew; they're all pretty switched on guys with good game and who have their shit together, and have bothered to stick it out.

I think there's a difference between jumping out of your comfort zone and not clicking with a culture. Moving to Russia is also leaving your comfort zone. I was almost a week in China, and I can see parallels with living in both those countries. SEA is somewhat of a different beast. The rats scurrying across the streets; garbage piled up on huge heaps on the footpath; the power lines all in tangled messes; traffic that defies any logical flow. Not to mention the tidak apa mentality drives me batshit insane.
Therefore I'll say that it's unfair to dismiss SEA aficionados as dirty old sexpats that couldn't score back home. If you can hack such an alien way of life out east, good on you.

Furthermore, SEA is seen, once to get to the cities especially, as a region that really has not much going beyond amassing a notch count of LBFM's. Jakarta, Manila, Bangkok, to a lesser extent, KL, Phnom Penh, and HCMC, are all dirty, grimy, polluted, trafficked, overdeveloped shitholes with really not much going for them beyond fucking easy brown sluts. You get some nice colonial architecture, but that's about it. Those cities have bugger all in the way of the amenities and highlights that make a city worth visiting; be it the history, infrastructure, cuisine, and cultural facets that are so plentiful in EE. I have a theory that the strength of a culture's cuisine is directly proportional to its development and indeed, Indonesia and to a lesser extent PH fails dismally in that regard. Even Colombian cuisine is distinctly average.
Sure, in those countries, the overall landscape starts to get prettier, but that's not what we're there for eh. tard

In terms of women, I don't necessarily agree with the SEA for easy bangs/EE for LTR's dichotomy. I think there's plenty of accounts of guys running harems in Russia and Ukraine, that I don't believe they're mutually exclusive. What EE girls tend to have going for them isn't necessarily a closer cultural connection; loads of SEA girls are very Westernised too, I think the ones that RVF players go for are even more self-selected to be so. Where I think EE girls' superiority lies in is their rounding out of intellect, beauty, and femininity. I can't think of too many other places in the world where I can take a date to the opera, back to my apartment for wine, cheese, and have her put on a jazz record pre-sex, then have her cook her breakfast the morning after.
Wine, cheese and jazz pre sex ?
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