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So the common assumption is that girls are attracted to masculine men and masculine qualities. But some recent experiences with eastern European girls who are love k-pop groups and the singers makes me wonder why these girls are into men with such feminine traits.

I mean these k-pop singers have soft skin, baby faces, no facial hair, very skinny, overtly metrosexual fashion and some even wear makeup. But it drives these girls wild and they dream and worship these guys like sex idols.

What's crazy is that the k-pop phenomenon is raising in popularity in many countries and more and more girls are into it. Also K-dramas are getting popular too where the dudes are super beta and even get emotional and cry. What's the explanation? Doesn't this contradict the assumption that women desire masculine traits and being attractive mean't being more masculine?
Because asians are taking over the world bro. ASIAN POWER BRO
Musicians have always had enough juice to break the rules in the modern world.
Ask WhiteKnightRises, guy is king of the beta koreans.
I can't speak on why girls like k-pop, but in my experience the reason why girls like k-drama ( Asian drama in general) is because of the sappiness of it. Unless it's trying to be serious, they are usually light hearted and we all know that good things will happen in the end.

An american example of this is Hallmark movies/ Series. Nothing really bad happens in any of the movies and most of them are interchangeable, but Hallmark is making bank off older women. Here is a WaPo article about it:

Quote: Ratings are booming. Hallmark was the only non-news channel in the top 15 to see substantial viewership growth last year[ 2016]. In November and December, when Hallmark aired Christmas movies almost nonstop, the channel often ran neck-and-neck with Fox News and ESPN for the title of most-watched TV network on basic cable. Ratings are up another 9 percent so far this year, Nielsen says, and the Christmas movie marathon hasn't even started yet. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...378735a716
K-drama is the young version of that. I mean it in the most general sense. In this age where there is depression plaguing the population, Every girl I know who watches K-drama does so because they at least feel better afterwards or it's easy watching.

I once decided to sit and watch a K-drama with my sisters- they all watch it on Netflix. It was so corny but I really enjoyed knowing that no one was going to die, no sex is going to happen, politics are not shoved down your throat.


Now with K-pop I think it's less about the guys and rather what they are singing and the increasing social media marketing which is making their popularity rise. Ever Heard of BTS?

Quote: "Making appearances on television shows is still the most reliable way to introduce new idols to the public, but Big Hit started to focus on social media and target foreign fans instead," explained Kim Suk-young, a professor at the University of California at Los Angeles whose research covers Korean cultural studies.

The move ultimately paid off. BTS now has 11.4 million followers on Twitter, earning the group a Guinness World Record along the way for having the most Twitter engagements for a music act. The group recorded an average 252,231 retweets per tweet on the social media platform. By comparison, fellow K-pop boy band EXO recorded a lower amount of 78,185 engagements per tweet.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/29/bts-and-...he-us.html




Disclaimer : I watch Hallmark shows on Netflix.
(06-30-2018 07:37 PM)dontuan Wrote: [ -> ]So the common assumption is that girls are attracted to masculine men and masculine qualities. But some recent experiences with eastern European girls who are love k-pop groups and the singers makes me wonder why these girls are into men with such feminine traits.

I mean these k-pop singers have soft skin, baby faces, no facial hair, very skinny, overtly metrosexual fashion and some even wear makeup. But it drives these girls wild and they dream and worship these guys like sex idols.

What's crazy is that the k-pop phenomenon is raising in popularity in many countries and more and more girls are into it. Also K-dramas are getting popular too where the dudes are super beta and even get emotional and cry. What's the explanation? Doesn't this contradict the assumption that women desire masculine traits and being attractive mean't being more masculine?

Sounds like you aren't getting laid and are insecure. Quit worrying about gay celebrities and work on your game.
Grown-up women who are into K-Pop have developmental issues. K-Pop promises a happy multicolor world of eternal childhood, including childlike non-sexual idols. It's like the bronie phenomenon in that sense.
I doubt the girls like these guy for their appearance, it's rather their fame that turns them on. I know that guys on this forum tend to bitch a lot about their looks but girls are really not that interested in appearance as long as you don't look weird or smell like a sewer. Of course all things equal they will choose the Chad vs the average guy but add in some fame and/or pre-selection and looks don't matter as much anymore.

I'm curious to know where do you meet EE girls that like k-pop ? Most attractive, high quality girls in EE don't even know what k-pop is.
(07-01-2018 05:49 AM)Pointer Wrote: [ -> ]I doubt the girls like these guy for their appearance, it's rather their fame that turns them on. I know that guys on this forum tend to bitch a lot about their looks but girls are really not that interested in appearance as long as you don't look weird or smell like a sewer. Of course all things equal they will choose the Chad vs the average guy but add in some fame and/or pre-selection and looks don't matter as much anymore.

I'm curious to know where do you meet EE girls that like k-pop ? Most attractive, high quality girls in EE don't even know what k-pop is.

For EE, it’s been Romanian girls in my experience that are really into it. Big following in France too.
From what I have noticed, both in Poland and other Europeans countries it's mostly teenage girls that are into K-Pop. For example, I know maybe a handful of girls that have interest in K-Pop that are my age or older (and they are weirdos), while I see tons of posts about Korean dramas, K-pop and their stars on tweeter from teenage girls. Had a chance to work briefly with a guy who actually listened to K-Pop and he said that in States and even Korea it's still mostly the younger crowd that is into this kind of stuff.

That said, I actually do believe their appearance and looks play key factor in their popularity among girls. Like someone has already expressed here on RVF, there is only one kind of beauty, and K-Pop guys are as feminine as it gets. Surely, their popularity, own wicked style and great music that they create is far more important than looks alone, but yeah, I do think that those girls dig their looks as well.
I've never met a chick over 20 in any country who seemed to have much of an interest in K-pop. That seems like kiddy shit.

Generally, girls like that girly look into they see that same dude next to a bigger more masculine man. From what I'm told, Korean dudes tend to be a lot burlier than other Asians and the K-pop thing is mostly an export to other countries.
I'm not even sure what Kpop is, but women crave emotional spikes. One of the early PUAs, Ross Jefferies, used to write about this. He had a very wierd style, he was a very shy dude with low inner game so he tried to use NLP to hypnotize women. I think this is a poor strategy, but he would write these scripts that were really good stories to tell because they had this roller coaster of emotions.
King of the beta Koreans chiming in

I can say that this trend has only accelerated.

I am in Seoul now and compared to 2-3 years ago, there are WAY more bangable (even hot) girls (both Asian and non-Asian) that are super into Korea (and by extension, Korean guys)
* granted, 2-3 years ago I wasn't living where I'm living now (part of Seoul that has a lot of young foreigners) - maybe I just didn't notice then cuz I didn't hang out here a lot

Here is a story about me fucking 2, almost 3, girls in a weekend (one was a super hot American chick)

As for your question.

Why do girls like Justin Bieber?
Some girls like pretty boys and a lot of these girls are younger (younger girls tend to like pretty boys more)

Also, (many) girls that get into all the Korean shit are super naive (young) and think that "true love", etc. and all the cheesy romance shit is real (Korean dramas, as people have said, are super soppy).
K-pop, etc. is mostly for export purposes like someone else said. In Korea, it's mostly teens that listen to it.

Source: a guy who actually knows what he's talking about (gets laid), lives in Korea, has a Korean and Western perspective (Korean-American)
Guys are getting confused here.

Kpop and Korean TV Dramas are 2 different things.
One is a music genre and ther other is a type of TV show.


Male Kpop is the ones with the the gay looking/gay acting singers/bands.


[Image: Purple-hairl-male.jpg]
It's true that K-pop fangirls tend to skew younger but there are a lot of college girls and girls in early 20's that are into the k-pop idols. And yes, it is physical attraction and not just fame. I had a Chinese friend that took advantage of this and banged exclusively K-pop girls in east europe.

I honestly think K-pop is kind of silly and the girls that were into it were kind of weird and not so attractive, but like whiteknightrises says, the fangirls are getting better and better looking as the Korean wave is spreading. There's something about it that's getting certain girls hooked even though it's from a far away country and they don't even understand the language.

It is younger girls that are into the Justin Bieber pretty boy look. But it is a form of physical attraction. I think it shows the whole women are attracted to masculine traits isn't some kind of immutable rule. Girls can be conditioned to be attracted to different kinds of traits and maybe this K-pop thing is doing something like that. Also I do notice that girls who are into K-pop stars are very girly and really like cute things.
(06-30-2018 07:37 PM)dontuan Wrote: [ -> ]So the common assumption is that girls are attracted to masculine men and masculine qualities. But some recent experiences with eastern European girls who are love k-pop groups and the singers makes me wonder why these girls are into men with such feminine traits.

I mean these k-pop singers have soft skin, baby faces, no facial hair, very skinny, overtly metrosexual fashion and some even wear makeup. But it drives these girls wild and they dream and worship these guys like sex idols.

What's crazy is that the k-pop phenomenon is raising in popularity in many countries and more and more girls are into it. Also K-dramas are getting popular too where the dudes are super beta and even get emotional and cry. What's the explanation? Doesn't this contradict the assumption that women desire masculine traits and being attractive mean't being more masculine?

Bolded may be the answer there for you. Every musician has a groupie in this world. Music has been getting low quality men laid ever since Homer. Half of the reason to get into music is so that you can score. If that is not the case, than please explain to me why someone like Prince was popular with the ladies. He was not an out of the closet fag yet effeminate.





"You know where you got that shirt, and it damn sure was not in the Men's Department"

Likewise any of the buy bands from 20 years ago strike me as effeminate at the time. Hell their facial hair looked drawn on.

Not sure about the K-pop drama shows that you are referring to, but that has always been popular with women for ever as said earlier in the thread.
What happened to the day when all those guys would just be called faggots?
(07-01-2018 08:54 AM)Bluto Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-30-2018 07:37 PM)dontuan Wrote: [ -> ]So the common assumption is that girls are attracted to masculine men and masculine qualities. But some recent experiences with eastern European girls who are love k-pop groups and the singers makes me wonder why these girls are into men with such feminine traits.

I mean these k-pop singers have soft skin, baby faces, no facial hair, very skinny, overtly metrosexual fashion and some even wear makeup. But it drives these girls wild and they dream and worship these guys like sex idols.

What's crazy is that the k-pop phenomenon is raising in popularity in many countries and more and more girls are into it. Also K-dramas are getting popular too where the dudes are super beta and even get emotional and cry. What's the explanation? Doesn't this contradict the assumption that women desire masculine traits and being attractive mean't being more masculine?

Bolded may be the answer there for you. Every musician has a groupie in this world. Music has been getting low quality men laid ever since Homer. Half of the reason to get into music is so that you can score. If that is not the case, than please explain to me why someone like Prince was popular with the ladies. He was not an out of the closet fag yet effeminate.





"You know where you got that shirt, and it damn sure was not in the Men's Department"

Likewise any of the buy bands from 20 years ago strike me as effeminate at the time. Hell their facial hair looked drawn on.

Not sure about the K-pop drama shows that you are referring to, but that has always been popular with women for ever as said earlier in the thread.

It's not necessarily the case that being a musician gets you all the hot ladies. One of my friends is a lead singer on a well known industrial rock band and he says there aren't many girls into that scene and the ones who are are not attractive or feminine. I've seen it and he's right.

I'm talking about how come these girls are going all groupie for those specific traits and image of these k-pop performers. Girls be swooning and tell me how they love how the guys look. They're also in many ways dancers more than they are musicians.

I also know guys who kind of just riding the coattails of the k-pop popularity. They're not musicians at all but just mimic the image and persona to get girls and it works for them.
(07-01-2018 09:13 AM)dontuan Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-01-2018 08:54 AM)Bluto Wrote: [ -> ]Snip

It's not necessarily the case that being a musician gets you all the hot ladies. One of my friends is a lead singer on a well known industrial rock band and he says there aren't many girls into that scene and the ones who are are not attractive or feminine. I've seen it and he's right.

I'm talking about how come these girls are going all groupie for those specific traits and image of these k-pop performers. Girls be swooning and tell me how they love how the guys look. They're also in many ways dancers more than they are musicians.

I also know guys who kind of just riding the coattails of the k-pop popularity. They're not musicians at all but just mimic the image and persona to get girls and it works for them.

Don't forget that the popularity and appeal of the music genre is the trump cards on this. How popular is Industrial Rock? How popular is K-Pop? Which of these two genres are more appealing to women? Depending on what you mean by Industrial Rock, I tend to think that these days Industrial Rock is more popular with people of the masculine persuasion. With that in mind, I tend to believe your friend on this. Tastes also change over time as well. Anything made over 10 years ago, and I am being generous, has to stand up to the test of time. Most music does not make it as a popular tune for that long unless it can be considered a timeless classic. Industrial Rock had their groupies back when they were more popular, as the afore mentioned boy bands, as the hair bands, etc.

Novelty may also explain this phenomenon as well. K-Pop may be considered a novelty to these women, whereas Industrial Rock is apparently passé, but also may be well established in your locality. What I consider Industrial Rock is at least 30 years old, and perhaps even older where I am. All of the groupies are mothers now.

All things considered, I tend to think that this is just a phase. Its basically the same theme as this episode of Southpark. A new genre gets girls in a tither, even college aged girls, and they move on to something else when they get bored or the market is saturated.

On another note, how did this get into the travel section?
Teenagers bro. They liked One Direction, they liked Justin Bieber and now it's Kpop time. It will change in a couple of years don't worry.

But coming back to your question, I'd say it's more a "value" or "fame" attraction than a physical one maybe you've seen girls saying how hot is this kpop idol or how hot is this one... Idk, just think that girls don't know what they're attracted to. I met this girl who's into cute korean boys and wants to date them but she's kinky as fuck and likes to be dominated... so yeah.
They can say they want a flowerboy like in kpop to date but meanwhile they're fucking a macho. So don't pay attention to this.

*Another point is that feminism and bisexual girls are increasing so you can guess.
How, the hell, did we get from this

[Image: got-battle-of-the-bastards-1024x682.jpg?w=780]

to that?

(07-01-2018 07:25 AM)Mercenary Wrote: [ -> ][Image: Purple-hairl-male.jpg]

Soon enough male pop idols will be sitting in a pram and sucking a teat.
I haven't encountered any either.

Either OP goes for underage girls or he knows some seriously retarded fat she-nerds.
(07-01-2018 10:23 AM)Bluto Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-01-2018 09:13 AM)dontuan Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-01-2018 08:54 AM)Bluto Wrote: [ -> ]Snip

It's not necessarily the case that being a musician gets you all the hot ladies. One of my friends is a lead singer on a well known industrial rock band and he says there aren't many girls into that scene and the ones who are are not attractive or feminine. I've seen it and he's right.

I'm talking about how come these girls are going all groupie for those specific traits and image of these k-pop performers. Girls be swooning and tell me how they love how the guys look. They're also in many ways dancers more than they are musicians.

I also know guys who kind of just riding the coattails of the k-pop popularity. They're not musicians at all but just mimic the image and persona to get girls and it works for them.

I can't remember the last time anyone ever brought up the subject of industrial music (never called it rock before, maybe this is something different?). Back when I first heard about it that sound had a small following, mostly goth-types before it was called goth. There were some edgy attractive women into it but nowadays they'd likely be fatter and just blend into the sea of pierced & inked weirdos with black fingernails & stupid hair.

As for the K pop phenomenon, it might be a variation of the hipster boyfriend syndrome. Another poster in this forum - Kaotic, maybe - once observed with respect to hipster couples that the guy always seems to be somewhere between a gay bestie and a pet. Relationship wise the guy always seems to need the girl more than vice versa.

FWIW, I recently attended a birthday part in Philly. 20 people or so; mostly women. Everybody was asian; mostly Vietnamese. Some of the boyfriends seemed metrosexual and docile in a k-pop kind of way. These weren't FOB kids either, they grew up in the US. Not sure what's pushing it but it isn't just a Korean thing.
The appeal of pretty-boy idols is nothing new. It's a phase girls pass through in adolescence. It's like they go from collecting rainbow colored My Little Ponies to thinking of boys in the same way, all painted up in different colors, different outfits, different snowflake personalities.

All of the male K-Pop stars seem to get their pouty male-model style from Duran Duran.

[Image: article-0-0361B3920000044D-285_468x358.jpg]

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a woman in her 20s or beyond that still gushes over this look.
Teenage girls have always liked these types. A fully grown man is intimidating to a young girl, while a boy is not. Incidentally, I was told often by girls I had boyish good looks growing up (they said I looked like Leo D), which did in fact get me girls without having to do much. It didn't last unfortunately.

The only new development I see is that older women are unashamed to continue this fascination well into mature middle age. I think maybe birth control is to blame.
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