Tickets On Sale For Last 5 Cities Of Roosh's Tour! Early bird pricing ends soon for Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte. Click here for details.

Post Reply 
Making Money The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Author Message
Kdog Offline
Wingman
***

Posts: 610
Joined: Aug 2012
Reputation: 30
Post: #126
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Thanks BB.
11-02-2015 09:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Kdog's post:
Beyond Borders
CleanSlate Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,985
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 222
Post: #127
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(11-01-2015 09:09 PM)RichieP Wrote:  Positioning is a choice. As much as we think it's this linear thing where it's harder and harder to get higher and higher paying jobs... actually it's more just a DIFFERENT GAME, not necessarily harder in terms of technical skill required. So much of it is about positioning and branding yourself, and learning to sell and market yourself very well.

To go deep into a niche, and be a business problem solver instead of PHP coder #874523, you'd need lots of background and experience of THAT niche market and understand their business. Going in cold without understanding it first won't work.

Plus, I also talked to another very successful freelance writer and told him that I've cold-contacted 400 people by email. I asked him if I'm doing anything wrong because I feel I'm not getting enough clients yet. What he said surprised me a little... "400 isn't that many. It took me about 1000 cold emails/calls before things started happening in my business. Keep going until you reach 1000 and then reassess what you're doing."

So what I'm going to do is pick 5 niches where I have at least some background knowledge.

Contact 600 more people within those niches telling them about my business and how I can help them save money and make their life easier.

If after 1000 total email contacts (and following up with them at least a few times), my business still isn't where I want it to be, then I may hire a Marketing Coach to really look at what I'm doing and set me straight.
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2015 10:09 AM by CleanSlate.)
11-02-2015 10:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like CleanSlate's post:
RichieP, Vice
RichieP Offline
Alpha Male
****

Posts: 1,449
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 23
Post: #128
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(11-02-2015 10:08 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  
(11-01-2015 09:09 PM)RichieP Wrote:  Positioning is a choice. As much as we think it's this linear thing where it's harder and harder to get higher and higher paying jobs... actually it's more just a DIFFERENT GAME, not necessarily harder in terms of technical skill required. So much of it is about positioning and branding yourself, and learning to sell and market yourself very well.

To go deep into a niche, and be a business problem solver instead of PHP coder #874523, you'd need lots of background and experience of THAT niche market and understand their business. Going in cold without understanding it first won't work.


Going deep in a niche is not what I'm talking about man.

I'm talking about how you position yourself, regardless of niche/domain expertise.

You could be the landing-pages-for-dentists guy (specialization in both industry and offer) and still be positioning weakly, selling features not benefits, and not pricing yourself high-end. Still, it's better than just being "Another Writer", at least then you've clearly defined the target market and offer.

Positioning/branding is the name of the game. Definitely look into marketing stuff, it's the key to all of this.

In terms of finding a niche to specialize in though (industry and/or offer) yeah that can take some time and you may need to pivot along the way. Sounds like you're on track.

BTW, if you're struggling landing clients I really recommend sitting down and hashing out a) who really has the burning need for your service, who also is b) ready to throw money at the issue to solve it. Targeting your ideal prospects, not canvassing.

One last tip for cold email - follow up! Most replies come on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th follow-up. This alone can multiply your conversion rate.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2015 02:30 PM by RichieP.)
11-04-2015 02:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like RichieP's post:
Bushido, Vice
ColSpanker Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,363
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 5
Post: #129
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Anyone know a good way to tell a client to pay up or shut up?
I just can't come up with a solution and I don't want to get rocked on UpWork. I recently picked up a long-term client who is willing to pay me DOUBLE what I've been getting up till now. The first thing I did was finish up a number of assignments and tell the clients who were using me that I had other work and would be unavailable for awhile. Most of them are here today gone tomorrow types and you can't bank on them. They've all been nice enough and told me to contact them if I have some free time. Well and good, I don't want to burn bridges and end up on the street. Story of my life. But one client who I was chatting with about a new assignment until I could decide whether or not the double rate client was bona fide (he is), has tried to lay a guilt trip on me. I've had to send him a nice but firm email telling him until he ups the rate or gives me something I want to write, he'll have to wait.
Is there a better way to handle this?

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
11-05-2015 03:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
RichieP Offline
Alpha Male
****

Posts: 1,449
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 23
Post: #130
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
^Huh? Are you engaged in a project with him, as in funds-in-escrow and him expecting some work?

If so just refund him and cancel the project. He can only leave negative feedback if you finish the project.

If it's a new assignment and you haven't agreed terms or started work, there's nothing else to discuss - a nice-but-firm message letting him know your current rate is all good.

Any client that tries to guilt-trip you on this is not one you want to keep. Win-win business people understand that everyone is trying to grow their business. Example: I got an enquiry for work from an old client, I let him know my rate was double the previous one. He said "Glad you're doing well now. We'd like to try you at your higher rate with this new project." Those are the ones worth keeping.

In no way let some dude on the internet guilt-trip you if you haven't entered an engagement (i.e. money for work). And if you have, courteously refund him and move on.
11-05-2015 10:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like RichieP's post:
ColSpanker, Thomas the Rhymer, Bushido, Marmite
NovaVirtu Offline
Chubby Chaser
**
Gold Member

Posts: 521
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 20
Post: #131
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Has anyone received unsolicited invitations to interview for jobs on UpWork? Are a lot of these people scammers?

I got an invitation from some Ukrainian guy for a gig where you install a game on your phone and send him information like installation time, etc...just seems kind of weird.

I need references on up work so maybe it's a good thing but I figured I'd ask the more experienced freelancers here first.

The Peru Thread
"Feminists exist in a quantum super-state in which they are both simultaneously the victim and the aggressor." - Milo Yiannopoulos
11-08-2015 06:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Seth_Rose Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,145
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 29
Post: #132
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(11-08-2015 06:09 PM)NovaVirtu Wrote:  Has anyone received unsolicited invitations to interview for jobs on UpWork? Are a lot of these people scammers?

I got an invitation from some Ukrainian guy for a gig where you install a game on your phone and send him information like installation time, etc...just seems kind of weird.

I need references on up work so maybe it's a good thing but I figured I'd ask the more experienced freelancers here first.

No, they're not (necessarily scams). When you create a job on UpWork, it propositions you to invite freelancers who may be a good fit for your job.

Blog - Twitter
11-08-2015 06:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Seth_Rose's post:
NovaVirtu
Seth_Rose Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,145
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 29
Post: #133
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Anyone on UpWork Pro?

I got an invitation to be part of the UpWork Pro writers group. Not sure what its all about but I may go through with it as its no cost from what I can see.

Blog - Twitter
11-11-2015 09:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
ColSpanker Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,363
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 5
Post: #134
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Haven't heard from that group, but I make most of my coin from UpWork contacts. Check it out and let the rest of us know.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
11-11-2015 10:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Seth_Rose Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,145
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 29
Post: #135
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Where are you guys (freelance writers) finding your clients these days? UpWork hasn't been kind to me lately lol and I need to branch out.

Blog - Twitter
11-29-2015 03:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
ColSpanker Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,363
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 5
Post: #136
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
I have a group of clients who keep me busy. I met them all through O-desk and Elance before they merged and became Up-Work. Its hard to find the better paying jobs with these platforms but you have to start someplace.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
11-30-2015 07:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes ColSpanker's post:
Seth_Rose
Bushido Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,012
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 90
Post: #137
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Upwork is proving to be a huge piece of shit platform. I was fine working with Elance but they are really going monopolistic since the merger with Odesk. There's a seemingly never-ending list of new fees for freelancers (charging you to withdraw money is beyond cheeky!) and now they are hitting European freelancers with an automatic 2% VAT charge starting immediately unless you can send them your VAT number. Yet another money grab on their part.

Then there is the inscrutable "job success rate" which seems to be pulled out of thin air. What was wrong with the star rating?

Hopefully another challenger will rise up to challenge Upwork because things are not looking good at all.

PM me for accommodation options in Bangkok.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2015 03:59 AM by Bushido.)
12-01-2015 03:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Bushido's post:
Ali, Seth_Rose, Handsome Creepy Eel
CleanSlate Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,985
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 222
Post: #138
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Because I've been out of the country for 2 weeks, plus another week for Thanksgiving with my family, I lost my "Rising Talent" rating on Upwork - whatever that means.

Things might be slow now because of the holidays. I think my time would be better spent the next few weeks on my existing projects and canvassing for new clients, then go on the sales/marketing offensive after the New Year.

dreambig, I don't get the VAT thing on my Upwork... that's probably a British thing. I don't get those fees when withdrawing my balance towards my bank account. Is this new, like starting within a couple weeks ago?
12-01-2015 09:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like CleanSlate's post:
ColSpanker, Marmite, Handsome Creepy Eel
Beyond Borders Away
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,362
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 251
Post: #139
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
Guys, there is such a giant opportunity in the freelance markets right now. It's nothing easy and it's certainly not something most of us here are positioned to jump on, but this whole Upwork/Elance thing has left so many people unsatisfied.

There's a big gaping hole in the freelance markets right now and thus far no one has jumped into the fray to offer a middle ground solution for connecting quality providers with quality clients.

Again, most of us here can't do a damn thing about it, but my prediction is this: Anyone who can and does stands to get sickeningly rich if they nail it right.

That is all.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2015 12:07 AM by Beyond Borders.)
12-23-2015 12:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Beyond Borders's post:
ColSpanker, Bushido, Robert JS, Marmite
ColSpanker Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,363
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 5
Post: #140
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
^^^Inquiring minds want to know....

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
12-23-2015 08:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Beyond Borders Away
Innovative Casanova
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,362
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 251
Post: #141
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
The post is self explanatory. I wasn't trying to be mysterious.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
12-23-2015 08:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Beyond Borders's post:
ColSpanker
General Mayhem Offline
Wingman
***

Posts: 957
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 25
Post: #142
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
He's just saying that the market is now open for a freelancing platform that doesn't suck.

It's the perfect time for someone else to come in and steal the show.

Upwork is a train wreck of a site.
12-23-2015 08:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like General Mayhem's post:
Beyond Borders, greekgod
CleanSlate Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,985
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 222
Post: #143
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(12-23-2015 08:40 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  He's just saying that the market is now open for a freelancing platform that doesn't suck.

It's the perfect time for someone else to come in and steal the show.

Upwork is a train wreck of a site.

This. It's a poorly developed site with rules that tilt heavily into the favor of clients as opposed to maintaining a balance between them and freelancers.

If I had the capital, a fleet of servers, a team of developers, and a couple years or so, I would take this on. But someone might steal the show within a few months.
12-23-2015 08:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Il Bersagliere Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,017
Joined: Mar 2015
Reputation: 25
Post: #144
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
I completely agree. Upwork is trash which is why I've held off on freelancing for a while now. Fiverr, I think, may be the platform of the future. Much less competition from outsourcing, easier to scale your service based business, great communication with clients (from what I can tell), etc. Not sure why more people don't use it.

whip
12-23-2015 12:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Bushido Offline
True Player
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,012
Joined: Sep 2013
Reputation: 90
Post: #145
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
(12-23-2015 12:52 PM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  I completely agree. Upwork is trash which is why I've held off on freelancing for a while now. Fiverr, I think, may be the platform of the future. Much less competition from outsourcing, easier to scale your service based business, great communication with clients (from what I can tell), etc. Not sure why more people don't use it.

I've given Fiverr a go before and could never get a single gig from it. That might be why. Any tips?

PM me for accommodation options in Bangkok.
12-23-2015 01:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
ColSpanker Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,363
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 5
Post: #146
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
A lot of my income is derived from UpWork gigs. Many freelancers are pissed at UpWork for dropping the ball and/or giving it to the other side. I agree, the time is ripe for someone to come in and bring this nonsense to a close. I've never thought there was any logic t0 the whole "anarcho-syndicalist" concept, but a groups of men with determination could seize the high ground if they started cooperating and worked together. I don't think it'll happen in my lifetime, but I never expected to see the Berlin wall come down either.
So long as places such as Amazon can prop their collective boots up on the counter and dictate to freelancers whatever terms they want, we are all screwed. Amazon controls the e-book market and they know it.
Freelancers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but lousy rates!

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
12-23-2015 01:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
General Mayhem Offline
Wingman
***

Posts: 957
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 25
Post: #147
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
I wonder if you could set up a site that would exclude all of the third world low balling bullshit. In other words, make a site with an exclusive community of freelancers and clients.

You would have to have some sort of vetting process instead of letting just anyone sign up.

Even if you could do that I'm not sure what kind of clients you would end up with.
12-23-2015 02:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Il Bersagliere Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,017
Joined: Mar 2015
Reputation: 25
Post: #148
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
@dreambig

A lot of guys are in a very saturated niche like copywriting or SEO or web development. On Upwork, I've noticed massive competition between these groups, but on Fiverr, the competition is a little less pronounced. It's very easy to see the same key players who have tons of experience dominating on Fiverr. For example, I've recently gotten some big data work done and I literally chose between a handful of guys who could process my request, so there's definitely a market for people with very strong skills in something specialized. Guys with this can easily put up a 'fresh' profile and start receiving interest from potential clients.

I set up a profile a while back for a service I was experimenting with and directed all interested parties to my inbox to agree on a price beforehand. It helped me scale up a lot in terms of price, so that's something you could do. I decided to terminate it because I have long term plans for it.

If you aren't receiving any work, Fiverr has classic promotion tools you could use like FB or Twitter or YT. I had a friend who did SEO and spammed Craigslist/Kijiji like crazy and directed a whole bunch of traffic to his fiverr gig/profile. He was doing a lot of very...unethical things, like email or phone extractions and data farming to generate clients and then setting up meetings through skype and converting clients. It certainly worked for him. He also paid a fee to promote his gig on Fiverr which certainly helps. In addition, he set up a side project where he'd receive the clients and outsource the work for cheap on Upwork and collect the profit. Quite streamlined. SEO is just one of those things you have to pull out all the stops for. I'm sure the same thing could be applied to copywriting or whatever. I tried writing but there's a steep curve to getting good clients. It takes a lot of work. And for pennies to start which isn't worth my time.

I did well on Fiverr without touching a thing or spending any money. The reason for this is because I was doing something fairly specialized/untapped. Certainly a strong market for that.

whip
12-23-2015 02:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Il Bersagliere's post:
Bushido, Handsome Creepy Eel
Phoenix Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jul 2014
Post: #149
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
^ I thought Fiverr was just for literal $5 jobs? Does this mean you have to offer work of this size increment?
12-26-2015 08:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Il Bersagliere Offline
Alpha Male
****
Gold Member

Posts: 1,017
Joined: Mar 2015
Reputation: 25
Post: #150
RE: The "All Things Freelance" Thread
@Phoenix

Not at all, man. 5 dollars is for a basic gig quantity, the bare minimum. For example, if I were designing squeeze pages, I would charge 5 dollars for a simple page and call it a day. However, clients are on a time crunch and you can charge a fee for early delivery, 20 dollars perhaps. And maybe another 5 or 10 bucks for revisions. And maybe a final 10 for premium quality images, based on your clients' wants. This would all be laid out on your profile and it's quite easy to upsell them by directing them to your inbox first.

whip
12-26-2015 08:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Il Bersagliere's post:
Phoenix, Handsome Creepy Eel
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  JOB: Freelance Article Writer Lion 2 3,730 09-08-2018 09:21 PM
Last Post: chrisblackbeard
  Making money as a freelance graphic designer Donald Duck 12 4,698 02-13-2018 01:18 PM
Last Post: Dragan
  [Making Money]  Best freelance careers/skills? Gopnik 17 9,433 04-29-2015 06:00 PM
Last Post: Aphex

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication