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MMX2010 Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-13-2015 12:02 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  Good ol' Milo :

I sent my girl a copy of that article.

She replied, "It's not right to assume the stormtroopers were black just because they couldn't shoot and didn't like the cold. Unless, of course, they can't swim."
12-15-2015 04:38 PM
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Post: #127
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
I couldn't embed this, but thought it was hilarious.

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12-16-2015 09:26 PM
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Post: #128
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
From the watching the trailers, it seems that the black stormtrooper essentially has a panic attack and deserts. How can you put a lightsaber in the hands of a guy who suffers from panic disorder? This is definitely going to be the touchy feely trilogy written by and for millenials.
12-17-2015 05:34 AM
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Post: #129
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
All the female characters I need Banana


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12-17-2015 05:33 PM
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Post: #130
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Is that from a ShotShow?

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12-17-2015 05:48 PM
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Comte De St. Germain Away
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Post: #131
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-17-2015 05:48 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  Is that from a ShotShow?

Not sure I got them from a shop that makes those metal bikinis

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12-17-2015 06:06 PM
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Akula Offline
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Post: #132
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-17-2015 05:34 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  From the watching the trailers, it seems that the black stormtrooper essentially has a panic attack and deserts. How can you put a lightsaber in the hands of a guy who suffers from panic disorder? This is definitely going to be the touchy feely trilogy written by and for millenials.

WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!!

I just saw it tonight and although I guess I liked it I was still a little disappointed. I think partially because I had such high expectations. But for sure, a lot of the re-booting of the franchise hinges on Millennial type themes and it's more touchy feely in some ways than the originals (but in others it's more violent too). For example, there are of course strong female characters and the lead one is seen easily defeating men in combat, and it generally just has a more feminine feeling to it with "wise women" in prominent roles here and there.

I will say that the special effects and battle scenes are cool (esp the X-wings and Tie fighters) but for me the dialogue is still is sometimes kind of corny and there's little in the way of character development (but that's nothing new for the Star Wars franchise). Also, the transition from new to old is a little shaky and you just don't know who many of the characters are and get very little background about them (Captain Phasma, the First Order leaders, Poe, etc.)

Also, these things kinda rubbed me wrong:

(AGAIN - WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!)

1) Rae (Daisy Ridley) suddenly seems to learn the force in like 2 days and all of a sudden can channel it and defeat Ren just like that -WTF?
2) Another type of "Death Star" is yet again the ultimate battle scene and they need to destroy the latest iteration of it to save the Rebels...can that theme be any more tired and worn out especially for this franchise?
3) the bad new evil emperor dude sort of looks like gollum and it's unclear where he comes from or who he is;
4) Finn isn't that well developed, he just starts doing things like not following orders & defecting after his first battle, suddenly helping the rebel prisoner defect, etc. Just didn't see how he got to where he was but maybe I'm nitpicking;
5) Han & Chewie - yeah it was cool to see them and Han had a couple funny moments but it just seemed to me like they were wasted here for the most part and there's zero build up to how they got to where they are and what they are doing;
6) Lea has such a limited role and it's not sure what they hell she's even in the movie for other than just bc Han and Chewie are;

Anyway, am really interested in what the forum thinks about this movie. In some ways I just think they should have left the old guys out of this one and started fresh - but I will admit that Han had some funny lines and the ending with Luke is foreboding and sets up the next movie well.

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(This post was last modified: 12-17-2015 11:57 PM by Akula.)
12-17-2015 11:50 PM
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Veloce Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Everything I've read confirms that I'm not going to pay to see this in theaters. I'll just pirate it when a good version is available.

What made the originals good isn't special effects or x-wings or tie fighters. Yes the special effects were good for their time but the physics aspect has always irked me. You've got tie fighters and xwings banking off an atmosphere that doesn't exist with sound effects (in space) to accompany. It's Sci-fi for kids. The light sabers were cool for their time and the inspiration drawn from Akira Kurosawa but that all seems to have been bastardized in the newer flicks where everyone has a lightsaber and can miraculously do backflips.

A New Hope came out in 1977, almost 10 years after 2001: A Space Odyssey, and yet I would rate the latter infinitely more interesting from a special effects perspective. There's no flying lasers or PEW PEW but it's elegant, refined, and immersive.

I thought the original trilogy did a pretty great job of retelling some classic themes that have existed through the ages. Themes of inner conflict, morality, rebellion, young vs. old, etc.

Anyway I haven't seen The Force Awakens yet but I can't get excited over rehashed themes and root for some PC entourage of millenials. Without having seen the flick, I already get a sense that, "If any of these protagonists were killed off, would I care?"

Probably not.

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(This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 12:06 AM by Veloce.)
12-18-2015 12:05 AM
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Akula Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-18-2015 12:05 AM)Veloce Wrote:  It's Sci-fi for kids.

^^^forgot to say it but yeah that's exactly what I was thinking when I left...this is basically sci-fi for kids (and for all the men and women who act like kids & teenagers these days too)

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12-18-2015 12:24 AM
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Post: #135
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
[SPOILER ALERT]



Ren is Luke's daughter, so seeing how he is some super powerful guy in the force, I guess she is too, maybe more depending if he banged one of his pupils. Kind of explains how the force came so easily to her, but why not when she was younger? They really pushed the force on her fast, basically sitting around she figures out she can control stormtrooper's minds. They could've put that into earlier character development, like when she was scratching around on tattoine.
The dialogue was clunky, and that drawn out emotion bullshit went on way too long in each scene, we get it, they're gonna cry or get all weepy, or have realizations, or make eye contact, but shorten the screen time for that shit.

The effects, flying, and fighting scenes were great.

Overall, I enjoyed it, it was a fun movie if I didn't put thought into it, but mostly because my Star Wars movies I got for the theatres were all full of Jar Jar fucking Binks.

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(This post was last modified: 12-18-2015 04:33 AM by spokepoker.)
12-18-2015 04:31 AM
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Post: #136
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
This movie was awful.

I dont care if Ren is Luke's daughter, what is the point of Jedi needing decades of training if all you have to do is pick up a lightsaber for the first time and know everything about it. Even Yoda couldnt take down a Sith on his own, with centuries of training, but this girl can do it with zero training just because she has the pussy pass? The Sith go from being feared and powerful enough to destroy the entire Jedi order to being a hero worshiping cry baby who cant even beat a 90-pound girl who just 10 seconds earlier figured out how to turn on a damn lightsaber?

Secondly, it wasnt even a stand alone movie. It just felt like a reboot of the original. Nothing new, nothing unexpected. Pretty much the exact same story line with some updated effects. I dont know how people came away from this movie happy. Im not even a ``Star Wars guy'' and I thought it was a joke to the franchise. They didnt even try to make a decent plot or even attempt to make this movie believable. One of the few times I came out of the movies and actually thought about demanding a refund.

Disney knew they had a cash cow and just pumped out a garbage movie for the fan boys and added a female lead to trick women into showing up this time around. Great marketing, horrible movie.
(This post was last modified: 12-21-2015 02:30 AM by AlphaRN.)
12-21-2015 02:28 AM
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Post: #137
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Saw it on the weekend.

Was better than the prequels, but that simply isn't that hard to do. Was NOT better than any of the original trilogy.

Han Solo, who remains the alpha of the series, was the highlight of the movie. Probably not a surprise to anyone on this board.

The roundhouse kicking chick-warrior crap is really getting old. It was new and different in the 90s. Now it's just a reflection of the (discredited) feminist propaganda that women would make as good fighters as men. I did find some solace in the fact that the guy who tries to white knight for the girl gets his ass handed to him.

Won't say more than that because I don't want an oversized anthropomorphic mouse to show up at my place and take me out.
12-21-2015 11:23 AM
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Post: #138
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-21-2015 11:23 AM)DannyAlberta Wrote:  Won't say more than that because I don't want an oversized anthropomorphic mouse to show up at my place and take me out.


Bonus points for "anthropomorphic." Banana

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12-21-2015 03:28 PM
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Post: #139
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-15-2015 04:38 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  
(12-13-2015 12:02 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  Good ol' Milo :

I sent my girl a copy of that article.

She replied, "It's not right to assume the stormtroopers were black just because they couldn't shoot and didn't like the cold. Unless, of course, they can't swim."

How were they with dogs?

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12-21-2015 03:31 PM
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General Stalin Offline
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Post: #140
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-17-2015 11:50 PM)Akula Wrote:  
(12-17-2015 05:34 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  From the watching the trailers, it seems that the black stormtrooper essentially has a panic attack and deserts. How can you put a lightsaber in the hands of a guy who suffers from panic disorder? This is definitely going to be the touchy feely trilogy written by and for millenials.

WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!!

I just saw it tonight and although I guess I liked it I was still a little disappointed. I think partially because I had such high expectations. But for sure, a lot of the re-booting of the franchise hinges on Millennial type themes and it's more touchy feely in some ways than the originals (but in others it's more violent too). For example, there are of course strong female characters and the lead one is seen easily defeating men in combat, and it generally just has a more feminine feeling to it with "wise women" in prominent roles here and there.

I will say that the special effects and battle scenes are cool (esp the X-wings and Tie fighters) but for me the dialogue is still is sometimes kind of corny and there's little in the way of character development (but that's nothing new for the Star Wars franchise). Also, the transition from new to old is a little shaky and you just don't know who many of the characters are and get very little background about them (Captain Phasma, the First Order leaders, Poe, etc.)

Also, these things kinda rubbed me wrong:

(AGAIN - WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!)

1) Rae (Daisy Ridley) suddenly seems to learn the force in like 2 days and all of a sudden can channel it and defeat Ren just like that -WTF?
2) Another type of "Death Star" is yet again the ultimate battle scene and they need to destroy the latest iteration of it to save the Rebels...can that theme be any more tired and worn out especially for this franchise?
3) the bad new evil emperor dude sort of looks like gollum and it's unclear where he comes from or who he is;
4) Finn isn't that well developed, he just starts doing things like not following orders & defecting after his first battle, suddenly helping the rebel prisoner defect, etc. Just didn't see how he got to where he was but maybe I'm nitpicking;
5) Han & Chewie - yeah it was cool to see them and Han had a couple funny moments but it just seemed to me like they were wasted here for the most part and there's zero build up to how they got to where they are and what they are doing;
6) Lea has such a limited role and it's not sure what they hell she's even in the movie for other than just bc Han and Chewie are;

Anyway, am really interested in what the forum thinks about this movie. In some ways I just think they should have left the old guys out of this one and started fresh - but I will admit that Han had some funny lines and the ending with Luke is foreboding and sets up the next movie well.

I actually agree with a lot of this criticism. I thought the "defecting storm trooper" thing was random and forced, and the lack of back story for him and the "best pilot in the rebellion" Po was confusing. They have this movie that's marketing basically hinged on being a total jerkfest for fans of the original trilogy because it is supposed to pick up where it left of and build on the story and the characters last seen on Return of the Jedi, but then all the old characters are just side characters and we are fed main characters with interesting roles in the movie but zero explanation as to who or why they are.

The speed at which the main character all the sudden realizes she is a Jedi and can use the force is also forced almost to the point where its campy. How does she all the sudden know she can read minds and knows how to do it? Every Jedi needs training to know how to use the Force, but magically she is able to master it in mere hours. Get the fuck outta here. Also, the "even BIGGER death star!!" thing was a tad retarded. Be a little original.

It was a fun movie and I do look forward to the next chapter, but for being such a highly anticipated blockbuster building off of such an iconic and legendary series, too much of it felt clumsy and forced.
12-21-2015 03:53 PM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
SPOILERS*********************

Along with what was already said about Rey not needing any training, we learned nothing about the force. Part of what made Empire great was Luke's training - learning about the force and learning what can go wrong, how people fall to the dark side. Instead, we're just told that Ben fell. The movie alludes to events that would have been far more interesting to see. Wouldn't that have made a better first movie? Showing how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren?

This would have made a better second movie with the aftermath of Han's death being like his capture in Empire.

Also, this bugs me, Han is approaching the Starkiller base at faster than light speed (called light speed in the SW universe, the MF is speculated to fly at 2714 light years per hour). They are literally traveling a trillions of miles per second. Han reaches up to the hyperdrive control to turn it off and times it perfectly to come out of hyperspace in the planet's atmosphere? That's some amazing timing.
12-21-2015 07:25 PM
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Post: #142
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
I watched The Farce Awakens the other day, as there wasn't much else to do with a massive thunderstorm in the area.

Loved the camera angles, great shots. Luke's facial expressions at the end were money. Those are the only positives.

Noticed straight away the "I'm a strong independent womaaaan" crap in the running away scene. Also, Rae yelling "Follow me!" at Finn.

Before Mary Sue did her things and ruined the film completely, it was the villain Ren taking his mask off that made me go

Lolwtf

That is no dark Jedi or Sith Lord. That's an emo hipster faggot nerd who got bullied at school and still does. Horrible choice, but I suppose he might appeal to the various Millenials in the audience.

And his master calls himself "Snoke". How cute. I just can't take these villains seriously any more.

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12-21-2015 07:59 PM
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Post: #143
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-21-2015 07:25 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  Also, this bugs me, Han is approaching the Starkiller base at faster than light speed (called light speed in the SW universe, the MF is speculated to fly at 2714 light years per hour). They are literally traveling a trillions of miles per second. Han reaches up to the hyperdrive control to turn it off and times it perfectly to come out of hyperspace in the planet's atmosphere? That's some amazing timing.

You mean, they created a mythical machine that can fly at 2714 light years per hour and it can stop right within a planets atmosphere?

Yeah, I get you. Thats simply unbelievable.

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12-21-2015 08:07 PM
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Post: #144
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-21-2015 08:07 PM)germanico Wrote:  
(12-21-2015 07:25 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  Also, this bugs me, Han is approaching the Starkiller base at faster than light speed (called light speed in the SW universe, the MF is speculated to fly at 2714 light years per hour). They are literally traveling a trillions of miles per second. Han reaches up to the hyperdrive control to turn it off and times it perfectly to come out of hyperspace in the planet's atmosphere? That's some amazing timing.

You mean, they created a mythical machine that can fly at 2714 light years per hour and it can stop right within a planets atmosphere?

Yeah, I get you. Thats simply unbelievable.

Suspension of Disbelief requires that, if you're going to introduce something fantastical into your narrative (dragons, starships, magic), that you keep the rest of the story grounded in reality, and that you establish clear rules for how the fantastical operates. If hyperdrive can do "Whatever the storyteller wants!" then the viewer will wind up questioning why the enemies don't use it in such a manner.

My opinion of the film? Evidence of J.J. Abram's arrested development. He's terrified of masculinity, and wants to crawl back to mommy, to enjoy the pre-sexual intimacy of suckling. This is why the ultimate villains of the series are Han Solo and Luke Skywalker (absentee fathers, evil white males), and while he doesn't hate the black male as much, he puts him into a comedic relief role.

It's also why he chose to completely remake his childhood, rather than be inspired by his childhood and make something new. He's afraid of growing up.

Also: you can see this to a lesser extent in his Star Trek movies with Uhura. He redesigned her character, and paired her with Spock when Nurse Chapel would have been a more natural choice. Partly because she was black, but also because she's the 'dominant' one compared to the aspie Spock.

He desires a woman's domination because he isn't ready to become a man.
12-21-2015 10:19 PM
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Post: #145
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
Chewie reacted stronger to Han being thought dead on Hoth.
12-21-2015 11:28 PM
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Post: #146
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-21-2015 10:19 PM)Aurini Wrote:  
(12-21-2015 08:07 PM)germanico Wrote:  
(12-21-2015 07:25 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  Also, this bugs me, Han is approaching the Starkiller base at faster than light speed (called light speed in the SW universe, the MF is speculated to fly at 2714 light years per hour). They are literally traveling a trillions of miles per second. Han reaches up to the hyperdrive control to turn it off and times it perfectly to come out of hyperspace in the planet's atmosphere? That's some amazing timing.

You mean, they created a mythical machine that can fly at 2714 light years per hour and it can stop right within a planets atmosphere?

Yeah, I get you. Thats simply unbelievable.

Suspension of Disbelief requires that, if you're going to introduce something fantastical into your narrative (dragons, starships, magic), that you keep the rest of the story grounded in reality, and that you establish clear rules for how the fantastical operates. If hyperdrive can do "Whatever the storyteller wants!" then the viewer will wind up questioning why the enemies don't use it in such a manner.

Eh, it's Han Solo at the helm. The guy knows the Falcon like nobody else in the galaxy (well, bar a certain Mary Sue character) and he's the sort of idiot to pilot a small ship into an asteroid field where the odds of survival are 3,720 to 1, so I can buy refuge in audacity on that one.
12-21-2015 11:34 PM
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Post: #147
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
RamZPaul's review:




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12-22-2015 02:09 AM
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Post: #148
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
How many of you guys got into the Expanded Universe in terms of the books, games, etc. as they were being released over the past 20+ years?

I dislike the fact that I even have to use the term "Expanded Universe" since in my mind, that's still canon.

They did such a good job with continuity considering all the different authors, storylines, etc. and now those in charge have decided to scrap all of that to basically re-hash Episode IV with new and improved political correctness.

I didn't have high expectations going in, and I try not to be too analytical with fiction, but it was just so blatant.

Hell, if you wanted more strong female characters, there are plenty of them that have come along since the original trilogy, and they actually made sense (i.e. Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, etc.)

At the end of the day, none of this is a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it's hard not to be disappointed with so much creative potential left on the table.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2015 02:30 AM by LeBeau.)
12-22-2015 02:27 AM
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Post: #149
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-21-2015 10:19 PM)Aurini Wrote:  
(12-21-2015 08:07 PM)germanico Wrote:  
(12-21-2015 07:25 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  Also, this bugs me, Han is approaching the Starkiller base at faster than light speed (called light speed in the SW universe, the MF is speculated to fly at 2714 light years per hour). They are literally traveling a trillions of miles per second. Han reaches up to the hyperdrive control to turn it off and times it perfectly to come out of hyperspace in the planet's atmosphere? That's some amazing timing.

You mean, they created a mythical machine that can fly at 2714 light years per hour and it can stop right within a planets atmosphere?

Yeah, I get you. Thats simply unbelievable.

Suspension of Disbelief requires that, if you're going to introduce something fantastical into your narrative (dragons, starships, magic), that you keep the rest of the story grounded in reality, and that you establish clear rules for how the fantastical operates. If hyperdrive can do "Whatever the storyteller wants!" then the viewer will wind up questioning why the enemies don't use it in such a manner.

My opinion of the film? Evidence of J.J. Abram's arrested development. He's terrified of masculinity, and wants to crawl back to mommy, to enjoy the pre-sexual intimacy of suckling. This is why the ultimate villains of the series are Han Solo and Luke Skywalker (absentee fathers, evil white males), and while he doesn't hate the black male as much, he puts him into a comedic relief role.

It's also why he chose to completely remake his childhood, rather than be inspired by his childhood and make something new. He's afraid of growing up.

Also: you can see this to a lesser extent in his Star Trek movies with Uhura. He redesigned her character, and paired her with Spock when Nurse Chapel would have been a more natural choice. Partly because she was black, but also because she's the 'dominant' one compared to the aspie Spock.

He desires a woman's domination because he isn't ready to become a man.

I think it's far more likely he was simply told by Disney's executives to create a film that appeals to women and went about it by adding a clumsily written, ludicrously over-competent female character. Buying Star Wars was a huge investment for Disney and they want to make sure it's a profitable one by giving it the biggest possible audience.

Star Wars is a huge franchise, but it's never been a four-quadrant movie. By adding the Mary Sue character and bringing back over-the-hill Princess Leia, Disney adds appeal to young women and old cat ladies and expands the movie's audience beyond little kids and aging Star Wars nerds.

Disney's number one priority isn't making left wing propoganda - it's making money. The company is extremely ruthless and will do almost anything to increase its bottom line. The cookie cutter plot shows that they wanted to take as few risks as possible with this movie while selling as many tickets as they could to as many people as they could possibly target.
12-22-2015 03:02 AM
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Post: #150
RE: Star Wars does not need lead "strong" females characters
(12-22-2015 02:27 AM)LeBeau Wrote:  How many of you guys got into the Expanded Universe in terms of the books, games, etc. as they were being released over the past 20+ years?

I dislike the fact that I even have to use the term "Expanded Universe" since in my mind, that's still canon.

They did such a good job with continuity considering all the different authors, storylines, etc. and now those in charge have decided to scrap all of that to basically re-hash Episode IV with new and improved political correctness.

I didn't have high expectations going in, and I try not to be too analytical with fiction, but it was just so blatant.

Hell, if you wanted more strong female characters, there are plenty of them that have come along since the original trilogy, and they actually made sense (i.e. Mara Jade, Jaina Solo, etc.)

At the end of the day, none of this is a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it's hard not to be disappointed with so much creative potential left on the table.

Exactly, the Expanded Universe might have been pretty weak due to using hack writers and the sheer volume of stuff being produced, but one thing it was great at was being amazingly consistent. I skipped 50 books encompassing 20 years of history between the Thrawn Trilogy and the New Jedi Order, and was still easily able to understand what things were like in the galaxy now and why.

Damn disgrace that Disney just threw that into the trash.

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(This post was last modified: 12-22-2015 03:58 AM by Handsome Creepy Eel.)
12-22-2015 03:42 AM
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