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50 Shades of Fantasy
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BlueResolute Offline
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50 Shades of Fantasy
So, I had to watch all three movies of the 50 Shades of Grey series. I somewhat ignored the second one cause I was distracting myself. It was with a lady friend in bed, which led to some nice kinkiness between them.

Firstly, this movie had nothing to do with erotic fantasy, or at least what I expected. The nude scenes were just normal B-tier HBO nudity flashes, and the characters were just as one dimensional as a Lifetime film. What I looked for through these movies was an analysis of what turns women on about it, and why they enjoy it. Clearly, it's not for just the sex, cause there's a sheer lack of it throughout the movie.

At its core, 50 shades is a typical love drama, where the usual target audience are female. Now there's Christian Grey. He's rich, stern, a bad boy, and is into domination. Every female's wet dream that is turned on by erotica. Then I thought back to the lessons I've learned here on Roosh and other material to tie into that whole image of a dominate man. There's clearly some cross overs (masculinity, confidence, stature), and then there's some clashes (guy falls in love with her and only her cause she's a bookworm average looking 5-6 at best). The message is clear, but it's just fantasy, right? This isnt exactly what women want. Only what the author wants.

Then I came across this article. I read it, cause I wanted to get a further insight into how a feminist male approached trying to be like Christian with what is probably a marriage where his wife is the dom.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a9...tian-grey/

Quote:Pensive Stares

If there’s one thing Christian Grey (and by proxy, actor Jamie Dornan) has down pat, it’s the smoldering stare. Although it gets leveraged more in the first film (before Ana finds her way past some of his emotional walls), Grey's stares are so intense it feels like he’s going to physically bore a hole through the screen. It seems less like a personality quirk and more like a tool he leverages. When a problem arises, he goes into “stare-mode” until the other person backs down. Personally, if I saw a guy do this in real life, I wouldn’t think, “wow, this is dominant behavior.” I would laugh and think, “this idiot has some serious behavioral issues and thinks staring is intimidating.” Actually, I wouldn’t even think it. I’d say it out loud. Let’s find out if I’m right or if there’s any kind of payoff to the silent stare.

My wife asked if I "wanted to make dinner tonight." I didn’t. Instead of using my words like a fully-formed adult human, I squared my jaw and fucking stared at her as hard as I could. She asked again, as if I didn’t hear her. She screamed it at me. By twenty seconds in, she had caught on that this was some kind of a “thing.” I bit my tongue hard to keep myself from laughing. “What the hell? I’m hungry. I don’t have time for this!” my wife shouted. I could taste blood now. How the hell does Christian Grey keep it together? Eventually, my wife relented and stormed off to the kitchen to whip something up. So technically, this strategy works, but it works in the same way a three-year-old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a department store works. It gets the result you want, but at the cost of you looking like a complete asshole. She still wound up making dinner though, so the point goes to Christian Grey.

Verdict: She was not turned on, but neither of us went hungry.

Using Money to Assert Dominance

There’s a scene early on in Fifty Shades Darker where Ana needs money for something (I forget what and I’m not going to bother looking it up, and if I'm wrong, oh well). Christian makes a phone call on the spot and deposits $25k into her account. Ana later donates the money as a power move, prompting Christian to act like it’s the first time he’s ever seen someone donate money before.

Before I proceed, there’s something important to note for anyone who isn’t married: once you make that holy covenant with another person, money generally ceases to be “your money.” There’s “our money” and there’s “money I used to secretly buy a new graphics card and hopefully my wife doesn’t look at the statement.” Impulse buys now have to cross the hurdle of both self-guilt and the scrutiny of another human being who doesn’t think eating ramen for a week is a worthwhile tradeoff for a new 4K TV. So, there’s no way I can deposit any amount of money into my wife’s account, because I’m really just shifting over money into a different account that we’d both use anyway. I’d need to do something else to demonstrate that money is sexy. That opportunity would finally come when we ran out of milk.

So again, just to be clear, in this instance it’s not about the amount of money. It’s about the action behind it. On the way home, we stopped at a convenience store to get a gallon of milk. I was tired, so I didn’t realize this was my opportunity until we were already at the counter. I was ill-prepared. As my wife was about to swipe her card, I hastily shouted, “NO I GOT THIS!” and threw a few crumpled up bills and a Sacagawea dollar on the counter. The cashier looked at me like I was high. My wife looked at me like I was high. She ended up paying for the milk anyway (just like Ana would). Also, I accidentally left the Sacagawea dollar behind, so this was a net loss. The milk was good, though, as far as milk goes.

Verdict: My wife, though confused, was decidedly not turned on.

Sexual Dominance

There’s a scene in Fifty Shades Darker where Christian puts Ben Wa balls inside Ana before they go to a fancy party thrown by Christian’s parents.

I asked my wife if she’d want to put a butt plug in before we met my parents at Chili’s and she told me to fuck off.

Verdict: This, in fact, actively turned her off.

In conclusion, only one of these tactics marginally worked to accomplish a goal, and I’m surprised I even managed the one win. I can probably only cash in on that “serious stare” tactic once. It worked, but certainly not as intended. No one would put up with that on a regular basis. But if the goal was to make my wife find me more attractive, I failed on all accounts. My wife didn't want to bang me in a Chili's bathroom while my parents wondered where we were. She found the staring annoying. And honestly, I think she's still confused by the milk ordeal.

There’s nothing wrong with being a rich, distant, borderline-psychotic billionaire who uses his money to connect with other people. But I would imagine that if I pulled this shit constantly, my wife would leave me and I really wouldn't blame her.

From this, you can see clearly what kind of wife he has. But he's not wrong at the end. "My wife would leave me." I'm surprised she hasn't left him now, but that can only mean he's the best she can do, which he should be aware to hoist over her if he was any of a man to begin with.
05-19-2018 03:34 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #2
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
What the chode in the story above doesn't understand is "context". The "dominant stare" and "demonstration of assertiveness" dont not "work" because they are ineffective in of themselves. They wont work for him because he long ago ceded his masculine power over to his wife so these acts, to her, are in-congruent. You can't act like a sheep and then out of the blue growl like a wolf and expect to be taken seriously.

His wife doesn't take him seriously. She probably fantasizes about a real man looking her in the eyes and being assertive when she diddles herself in the bathtub.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-19-2018 04:44 PM
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LeBeau Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-19-2018 03:34 PM)BlueResolute Wrote:  So, I had to watch all three movies of the 50 Shades of Grey series. I somewhat ignored the second one cause I was distracting myself. It was with a lady friend in bed, which led to some nice kinkiness between them.

The first thing to keep in mind is that a man doesn't have to watch anything. That might help improve your mindset towards dominance and assertiveness. Now if you said you were curious or you wanted to learn more about media and female psychology, that would make sense.

That said, I read your entire post, and I'm not sure what points you're trying to make. There could be an interesting discussion here, but I suspect it's already been covered if you use the search function for existing threads.
05-19-2018 04:47 PM
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Post: #4
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-19-2018 04:44 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  You can't act like a sheep and then out of the blue growl like a wolf and expect to be taken seriously.

She probably fantasizes about a real man looking her in the eyes and being assertive when she diddles herself in the bathtub.

Quotable wisdom and elegant efficiency of golden words.

I'm a fucking Papaya Fan boy.
05-19-2018 05:35 PM
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BlueResolute Offline
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Post: #5
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-19-2018 04:47 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 03:34 PM)BlueResolute Wrote:  So, I had to watch all three movies of the 50 Shades of Grey series. I somewhat ignored the second one cause I was distracting myself. It was with a lady friend in bed, which led to some nice kinkiness between them.

The first thing to keep in mind is that a man doesn't have to watch anything. That might help improve your mindset towards dominance and assertiveness. Now if you said you were curious or you wanted to learn more about media and female psychology, that would make sense.

That said, I read your entire post, and I'm not sure what points you're trying to make. There could be an interesting discussion here, but I suspect it's already been covered if you use the search function for existing threads.
I was mostly curious if anything. We needed something to watch and it was right there. I had long avoided the media till now.

My discussion was the differences between female expectations, male expectations of female expectations, and actual reality of both. I'm aware of the old threads that existed, but considering they've been old for so long, I wanted a new venue of discussion involving just female erotica vs the guidelines we use here in relation to Gaming. Of course, I'm reading through the old thread, too.
05-19-2018 05:37 PM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
Something the author of the article missed. There is really a fundamentally different dynamic between the domesticity of a married couple and two people who are dating. There's no way to really make married life feel daring or adventurous, at least not without coming across as try-hard.
05-20-2018 08:35 AM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #7
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
^You dont need to make marriage "daring and adventurous" to make it last. But what you must do is to establish from the onset that your wife cant get too comfortable and that youre not equal in your roles. Its complacency that leads to boredom and loss of attraction

Why are women the initiates of 80% of divorce cases?

Because the men failed to understand the direct connection between a woman's fear and her desire

Fear of loss stimulates desire to keep

Its been written a million times but game never stops. If you decide you want to keep a woman you better make a little dread an automatic part of your life.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 12:53 PM by PapayaTapper.)
05-20-2018 12:52 PM
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BlueResolute Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-20-2018 12:52 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  ^You dont need to make marriage "daring and adventurous" to make it last. But what you must do is to establish from the onset that your wife cant get too comfortable and that youre not equal in your roles. Its complacency that leads to boredom and loss of attraction

Why are women the initiates of 80% of divorce cases?

Because the men failed to understand the direct connection between a woman's fear and her desire

Fear of loss stimulates desire to keep

Its been written a million times but game never stops. If you decide you want to keep a woman you better make a little dread an automatic part of your life.
So you're saying that marriages fail, and I agree on this, mostly cause men are afraid of upsetting the woman? Aka, likely being from a household where their mother was the dominant or the father didn't teach them well?
05-20-2018 02:06 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #9
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-20-2018 02:06 PM)BlueResolute Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 12:52 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  ^You dont need to make marriage "daring and adventurous" to make it last. But what you must do is to establish from the onset that your wife cant get too comfortable and that youre not equal in your roles. Its complacency that leads to boredom and loss of attraction

Why are women the initiates of 80% of divorce cases?

Because the men failed to understand the direct connection between a woman's fear and her desire

Fear of loss stimulates desire to keep

Its been written a million times but game never stops. If you decide you want to keep a woman you better make a little dread an automatic part of your life.
So you're saying that marriages fail, and I agree on this, mostly cause men are afraid of upsetting the woman? Aka, likely being from a household where their mother was the dominant or the father didn't teach them well?

Yes
Men in general dont like drama or needless conflict and tend to "give in' on little shit. In an LTR or marriage this becomes a cumulative transfer of power to the woman. Less power = weaker. Woman are biologically "wired" to be attracted to a mate that is more powerful in some form (stronger, taller, older, smarter, more talented, accomplished, etc etc)

By ceding that power over time to a woman she loses attraction and gains disdain often to the point of repulsion.

Men dont see it because theyre just going with the flow thinking about "big things": job, mortgage, kids college, etc.

Then 10, 20, 30 years in the fat cow of a wife cant stand the emotional void anymore and files for divorce and he's blindsided

The only way to avoid this

1. Pick the right woman

2. Accept that the game never ends


Quote:« Hardest ChallengesGoing Sexual »
Dread
March 27, 2008 by CH

There are two ways to guarantee a healthy relationship. By healthy, I mean the girl is in love with you and there is no threat of her leaving; you have all the leverage you need to assure yourself peace of mind and a steady sexual outlet.

Meet your soulmate
If you are extremely lucky enough to cross paths with your soulmate this is the easiest way to live the kind of romantic bliss that Hollywood movies exalt. A soulmate connection is the Golden Ticket to happiness and a dreamlike existence. But it is rare. Don’t live as if it will happen to you. I estimate 1% of all men and 2% of all women meet their soulmates. The reason for the discrepancy is that male soulmates are in shorter supply than female soulmates. Male soulmates are shared amongst the women like a community hookah.

Instill dread
Women respond viscerally in their vagina area to unpredictability, mixed signals, danger, and drama in spite of their best efforts to convince themselves otherwise. Managing your relationship in such a way that she is left with a constant, gnawing feeling of impending doom will do more for your cause than all the Valentine’s Day cards and expertly performed tongue love in the world. Like it or not, the threat of a looming breakup, whether the facts justify it or not, will spin her into a paranoid estrogen-fueled tizzy, and she’ll spend every waking second thinking about you, thinking about the relationship, thinking about how to fix it. Her love for you will blossom under these conditions. Result: she works harder to please you.

The key for the man is to adopt a posture of blase emotional distance alternated with loving tenderness. Too much of either and she’ll run off.

Examples of effective doom inducement:

Turn off your cell phone twice a week. Alternate days. Don’t do this on a Friday or Saturday night unless the relationship is shaky and needs a high voltage jolt of dread.

Make a blatant but plausibly deniable move on one of her friends when she’s not around. The news will get back to her. Milk it.

Call her from a very busy place so that she can hear women’s voices laughing and shrieking in the background. Don’t tell her where you are when she asks. Just say you’ll see her soon.

Mention how skilled your Russian ex was at giving head. Bring it up again a few days later, pretending not to remember the first time you mentioned it. Bonus: Russians are very good at giving head, so this will have the ring of truth.

Be seen by your girlfriend flirting with other women in a social venue. Extra points if the women are attractive. Double extra points if you flirt without looking back at your girlfriend once to check her reaction.

Cook her a romantic candlelight dinner at home. Make it a memorable experience, complete with jazz, chocolate, and rose petals. Then, do not talk with her for four days afterwards.

Ignore her calls for a week. When you eventually answer and she reads you the riot act, act as if nothing was wrong and accuse her of sabotaging a perfectly good relationship, “just like all the other women in this stupid city. I thought you were different”. Hang up on her angrily.

When her best friend tells you how cute you and your girlfriend look together, shrug, put your hand to the back of your neck as if to scratch an itch there, look down slightly and with a mildly annoyed expression blandly sigh “Yeeeeah…”. Triple bonus points if your girlfriend is standing right there.

When she attempts the jealousy maneuver by flirting with another guy, act unfazed. Give her pickup tips.

Gaze longingly into her eyes, say how hot she looks, then immediately glance sidelong at the bosom of any strange woman in the vicinity.

Have a threesome. Spend an inordinate amount of time admiring the labia of the other woman. Be sure to moan louder with her. WARNING: If you cum on the other woman you will have to spend weeks consoling your girlfriend.

Say things like “I really value my independence and freedom” relevant to nothing in particular. It’s just a thought that popped in your head.

Thermonuclear Option:

Have an affair and make sure she finds out about it. Arrange the confrontation so that it does not happen at your place. When she confronts you, don’t get defensive. Don’t speak at all. Let her vent. Let her punch you in the chest and scream obscenities. When she takes a breather, tell her she’s never looked more beautiful and you will never stop loving her. Then without waiting for her response calmly walk out the door and break off all contact for two weeks. When she comes back to you… and she will… you will have a love slave for life.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 02:37 PM by PapayaTapper.)
05-20-2018 02:27 PM
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Post: #10
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-19-2018 03:34 PM)BlueResolute Wrote:  There's clearly some cross overs (masculinity, confidence, stature), and then there's some clashes (guy falls in love with her and only her cause she's a bookworm average looking 5-6 at best). The message is clear, but it's just fantasy, right? This isnt exactly what women want. Only what the author wants.

@OP Do you think the author intentionally picked her (a HB6) as the actor to represent "the average normal" woman?

This 50 shades never stop to intrigue me. I wonder if it's even a good movie to watch with a girl.
05-20-2018 03:28 PM
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BlueResolute Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-20-2018 02:27 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 02:06 PM)BlueResolute Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 12:52 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  ^You dont need to make marriage "daring and adventurous" to make it last. But what you must do is to establish from the onset that your wife cant get too comfortable and that youre not equal in your roles. Its complacency that leads to boredom and loss of attraction

Why are women the initiates of 80% of divorce cases?

Because the men failed to understand the direct connection between a woman's fear and her desire

Fear of loss stimulates desire to keep

Its been written a million times but game never stops. If you decide you want to keep a woman you better make a little dread an automatic part of your life.
So you're saying that marriages fail, and I agree on this, mostly cause men are afraid of upsetting the woman? Aka, likely being from a household where their mother was the dominant or the father didn't teach them well?

Yes
Men in general dont like drama or needless conflict and tend to "give in' on little shit. In an LTR or marriage this becomes a cumulative transfer of power to the woman. Less power = weaker. Woman are biologically "wired" to be attracted to a mate that is more powerful in some form (stronger, taller, older, smarter, more talented, accomplished, etc etc)

By ceding that power over time to a woman she loses attraction and gains disdain often to the point of repulsion.

Men dont see it because theyre just going with the flow thinking about "big things": job, mortgage, kids college, etc.

Then 10, 20, 30 years in the fat cow of a wife cant stand the emotional void anymore and files for divorce and he's blindsided

The only way to avoid this

1. Pick the right woman

2. Accept that the game never ends


Quote:« Hardest ChallengesGoing Sexual »
Dread
March 27, 2008 by CH

There are two ways to guarantee a healthy relationship. By healthy, I mean the girl is in love with you and there is no threat of her leaving; you have all the leverage you need to assure yourself peace of mind and a steady sexual outlet.

Meet your soulmate
If you are extremely lucky enough to cross paths with your soulmate this is the easiest way to live the kind of romantic bliss that Hollywood movies exalt. A soulmate connection is the Golden Ticket to happiness and a dreamlike existence. But it is rare. Don’t live as if it will happen to you. I estimate 1% of all men and 2% of all women meet their soulmates. The reason for the discrepancy is that male soulmates are in shorter supply than female soulmates. Male soulmates are shared amongst the women like a community hookah.

Instill dread
Women respond viscerally in their vagina area to unpredictability, mixed signals, danger, and drama in spite of their best efforts to convince themselves otherwise. Managing your relationship in such a way that she is left with a constant, gnawing feeling of impending doom will do more for your cause than all the Valentine’s Day cards and expertly performed tongue love in the world. Like it or not, the threat of a looming breakup, whether the facts justify it or not, will spin her into a paranoid estrogen-fueled tizzy, and she’ll spend every waking second thinking about you, thinking about the relationship, thinking about how to fix it. Her love for you will blossom under these conditions. Result: she works harder to please you.

The key for the man is to adopt a posture of blase emotional distance alternated with loving tenderness. Too much of either and she’ll run off.

Examples of effective doom inducement:

Turn off your cell phone twice a week. Alternate days. Don’t do this on a Friday or Saturday night unless the relationship is shaky and needs a high voltage jolt of dread.

Make a blatant but plausibly deniable move on one of her friends when she’s not around. The news will get back to her. Milk it.

Call her from a very busy place so that she can hear women’s voices laughing and shrieking in the background. Don’t tell her where you are when she asks. Just say you’ll see her soon.

Mention how skilled your Russian ex was at giving head. Bring it up again a few days later, pretending not to remember the first time you mentioned it. Bonus: Russians are very good at giving head, so this will have the ring of truth.

Be seen by your girlfriend flirting with other women in a social venue. Extra points if the women are attractive. Double extra points if you flirt without looking back at your girlfriend once to check her reaction.

Cook her a romantic candlelight dinner at home. Make it a memorable experience, complete with jazz, chocolate, and rose petals. Then, do not talk with her for four days afterwards.

Ignore her calls for a week. When you eventually answer and she reads you the riot act, act as if nothing was wrong and accuse her of sabotaging a perfectly good relationship, “just like all the other women in this stupid city. I thought you were different”. Hang up on her angrily.

When her best friend tells you how cute you and your girlfriend look together, shrug, put your hand to the back of your neck as if to scratch an itch there, look down slightly and with a mildly annoyed expression blandly sigh “Yeeeeah…”. Triple bonus points if your girlfriend is standing right there.

When she attempts the jealousy maneuver by flirting with another guy, act unfazed. Give her pickup tips.

Gaze longingly into her eyes, say how hot she looks, then immediately glance sidelong at the bosom of any strange woman in the vicinity.

Have a threesome. Spend an inordinate amount of time admiring the labia of the other woman. Be sure to moan louder with her. WARNING: If you cum on the other woman you will have to spend weeks consoling your girlfriend.

Say things like “I really value my independence and freedom” relevant to nothing in particular. It’s just a thought that popped in your head.

Thermonuclear Option:

Have an affair and make sure she finds out about it. Arrange the confrontation so that it does not happen at your place. When she confronts you, don’t get defensive. Don’t speak at all. Let her vent. Let her punch you in the chest and scream obscenities. When she takes a breather, tell her she’s never looked more beautiful and you will never stop loving her. Then without waiting for her response calmly walk out the door and break off all contact for two weeks. When she comes back to you… and she will… you will have a love slave for life.

I will say that one vision I have had from when I was young was this prairie style type of wife. Who smiles, cooks, doesn't cause much drama, gossips with some friends, and enjoys being herself. Not too pretty, not too ugly. Very homely. And I've met girls like that through my life which if I was not building a career, I would have married. She smiles, she speaks honestly, and she isn't affected by feminism.

It's a shame that in this day and age, it's harder to find a good woman like this compared to a good man. And if a fantasy book was written for men involving romance, it would be the woman who does everything for the man and never complains. But then again, I suppose that's why "save the princess" stories are popular with men in general, aka the Hero's Journey mythos of masculinity.

@AceP: 50 Shades to me is like going on a date to see a romance comedy or romance drama with a girl. No different from that experience. She'll be just as horny, or not horny, as she would with any other movie like it.
05-20-2018 03:37 PM
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Post: #12
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
I know there are threads on how to keep a happy marriage but I just don't think it's possible to instill dread in a marriage when women hold so much leverage in divorces.
05-20-2018 06:56 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #13
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
If a man establishes dominance from the onset, never cedes the masculine role in the dynamic, stays fit (so she knows other women will fuck her husband) she will not lose her attraction for him.

Like everything its about balance

To much acquiescence and she loses respect and attraction simultaneously.

Too much "dread" and it becomes abusive.


Its a titration formula that has to be concocted on the fly and in perpetuity

Its the emotional unpredictability that keeps her emotionally engaged. Its her feminine nature to respect the masculine role. Respect is requisite for attraction over time

Carrot and stick

Fear and desire

Positive and negative

How much of each?

Depends on the girl (see step 1 above)

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-20-2018 07:42 PM
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puckerman Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
The movies got made because of the books. I haven't seen the movies. I did read the first book. After that, I decided not to give it any more of my time or money.

I never read a story with two more unlikable characters. Grey is a pathetic loser who tries to impress a woman by throwing money around. Ana is just a gold-digger, but doesn't want to admit. Sadly, I think this might be the reason for its popularity. It apologizes for gold-digging and for being fake about it.
05-27-2018 10:50 PM
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RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
As others have said, "had to?" What?

Did the movies get your pussy wet?
05-27-2018 10:55 PM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #16
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
If there's one small benefit to these stupid 50 Shades books & movies; it is how readily one can dismiss female rhetoric due to the popularity of said stupid books & movies.
05-28-2018 01:03 AM
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Post: #17
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-28-2018 01:03 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  If there's one small benefit to these stupid 50 Shades books & movies; it is how readily one can dismiss female rhetoric due to the popularity of said stupid books & movies.
Truth. If anything, the answer is in the pussy, er I mean pudding.
05-28-2018 01:05 AM
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Post: #18
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
Ive written numerous times about the appeal of 50 Shades and the archetypal source of that appeal. There is a game lesson to to be learned about women's natural response to the "hero' of a story.

Keep in mind that every situation in life can be viewed as its own story. Just substitute "leader/ authority figure / celeb / ect" for hero.

-In lecture hall the authority figure, the professor.

-At a bar/nightclub, party its the AMOG who's holding court as the center of attention.

-At a EDM event its the DJ.

A man's goal should be to be seen as the "hero" of any given "story

Here's why


https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38676...#pid794154

(07-30-2014 12:58 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  The reason this is so appealing to women is really pretty simple. It's the same story that's been told for thousands of years with a modern "skin" on it. It's the story of Cinderella, Snow White, etc.


It's the female Monomyth- a term coined by Joseph Campbell the American mythologist, writer and lecturer, best known for his work in comparative mythology and comparative religion. His work is incredibly vast but in a nutshell he found that there are common fundamental character archetypes and themes throughout history and accross ALL civilizations that resonate at a primal level. In other words it's in our DNA to respond to these stories. We can't help it. His book "The Hero's Journey" inspired George Lucas to write Star Wars.

The story of Luke Skywalker is exactly the same as, that of Neo in the Matrix, King Arthur in Camelot, Hercules in Greek mythology even Moses and Jesus in the bible. It's the story of "the chosen one" and what they must overcome (their journey) to fulfill their destiny and save everyone else. Its repeated over and over and over through every single culture because it's an innate story to our collective experience of being humans. But it's a male story.

Women are sometimes portrayed in the hero's role, (Wonder Woman, Xena Warrior Princess, etc) and have some surface appeal (yeah you go girl kick ass) but this inauthentic version never resonates as powerfully as a male version.

The true female version of the monomyth is about being saved / rescued by the "Prince Charming" archetype. 50 Shades Of Grey is nothing more than Cinderella with a corrupted "skin" to fit our warped society's sensibilities.

I recommend reading Joseph Campbell's work. It's fascinating and I've found it incredibly useful in personal development. We are each on a journey. It's up to each of us as to whether that journey is one of a hero's

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-28-2018 04:58 PM
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Post: #19
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
cont

(07-31-2014 04:05 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(07-31-2014 12:32 PM)DavidMI Wrote:  ...

And actually, I'd suspect that the Cinderella monomyth is even more potent than the "Hero's Journey", because I believe there is much more genetic variation amongst men than amongst women. Therefore, many are going to have divergent tastes, whereas 99% of women will get all tingly when watching 'Pretty Woman' or reading '50 Shades of Gray'.

Thanks

I have no knowledge of whether any of Campbell's work was fraudulent nor have I studied or even read all of it (I think one could spend a lifetime doing that... in fact there's a whole foundation of people dedicated to just that) so I'm not qualified to comment or defend it. For my purposes I don't even care whether some of the specific stories he referred to were made up. All "stories" are made up. Only history isn't. (EDIT Well...I guess that's debatable, but you know what I mean)

I disagree that his work is an oversimplification. Fuck me but reading his work is anything but simple. His analyses are incredibly complex. His reduction of his findings into simpler form is was/is genius

I say I don't care because n my humble opinion there are undeniable elements, rythms, beats that are found in Campbell's original model "Hero's Journey" that are vital to good story telling. Are those found in every "good" movie? Abso-fucking-lutely. You can give me any GOOD or better movie or script and I can show you where they are.

Has that original model been altered, mis-interpreted, bastardized and regurgitated as a fucked up version of The Heros' Journey? Abso-fucking-lutely. You can go to any coffee shop in LA, ads in CL. etc etc, and there are countless number of jackwagons claiming to be able to teach wannabe screen writers "Hero's Journey" classes. I'm sure there are many capable and even great writing teachers out there but 40 years of people fucking it up has made reference "The Hero's Journey" seem cliche' and in some circles cheesy.

Example of rythm: Do you know why ALL movie scripts have a three act structure? Of course because before movies we had plays and plays are written in 3 acts. Were the always? No.

Aristotle is often credited by screenwriting how-to authors with having originated three-act structure over 2000 years ago because of his observation that a tragedy must have a beginning, a middle and an end for people to enjoy it. This is the RYTHM of a good story While he was not explicit about how this should be achieved, a three-act form can be found in his identification of Greek drama’s component parts — prologue, parados, episode, stasimon, and exodos. Prologue and parados were where the story was introduced. Episode and stasimon referred to a dramatic scene (episode) followed by a choral song (stasimon) that could be alternated as many times as necessary to fulfill the story. And exodos was where the story was finally resolved. Thus, we have a beginning, a middle and an end. Not exactly today’s three-act structure but certainly heading in that direction.

Is rhythm a vital part of good story telling? Of course. Campbells analyses of what make for good story telling throughout history goes way way beyond that of Aristotles. It's no coincidence though that Aristotle was a brilliant philosopher (again my opinion) and that he was able to recognize what people respond to through his observations

Did Wachowski's follow Campbells model for The Hero's Journey? BLATANTLY. Is the model "legit"? Id argue that $1,100,000,000 and climbing in revenue is "proof" that people respond to the model. If that isn't then please tell me what is.

I'm thinking it might be a fun and worthwhile exercise to start a Movie Monomyth Analysis thread. You name a good or favorite movie and I'll run it through the "Joseph Campbell" analysis ( best that I can) and see what happens. Of course if you pick a crap movie I'll call you out. Thoughts anyone?

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-28-2018 05:00 PM
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Post: #20
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
And

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-68131...pid1778366

(05-04-2018 04:19 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  
(05-04-2018 12:34 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  
Quote:CEOs of big tech companies: You almost certainly have incels as employees. What are you going to do about it?

Women hate betas and incels so fucking much. Years ago it was "nice guys of okcupid" or the 'nice guys are really assholes' meme. Then it was the friendzone doesn't exist meme. Now it's incels must die.

What do they all have in common? Women directing their hate towards men they don't want to fuck. The worst crime in a matriarchy is to dry up the pussy.

Conversely that's why they hate the idea of "game" being an acquired skill set. The possibility that pussy tingling attributes are not 100% innate and can be "manufactured" in some way is terrifying. So much so that its labeled as "tricking" women rather than developing the skills to give women what they want.

Myths for women are called fairy tales* for a reason (Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and The Beast etc etc) all have one fundamental common thread. The "heroine" of the story archetype is not the one that vanquishes the evil step mother, witch, or spell but is rather rescued by the "hero". The Prince has to do the conquering. God forbid that Prince Charming wasn't born handsome strong and rich
and had to put in work to over come obstacles in order to acquire his vanquishing skills.

Pussy only responds to final results, it doesn't prepare to respond.

*Ive written before about how 50 Shades Of Grey is essentially the retelling fairy tale of Plain Jane as Cinderella with a modern skin on it and some mild S&M added. Doesn't matter how improbable or even how bad the actual execution it is but women all over the world responded with wet pussy. It's textbook Campbell archetype.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
05-28-2018 05:00 PM
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Post: #21
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-27-2018 10:50 PM)puckerman Wrote:  The movies got made because of the books. I haven't seen the movies. I did read the first book. After that, I decided not to give it any more of my time or money.

I never read a story with two more unlikable characters. Grey is a pathetic loser who tries to impress a woman by throwing money around. Ana is just a gold-digger, but doesn't want to admit. Sadly, I think this might be the reason for its popularity. It apologizes for gold-digging and for being fake about it.

Lol if you judge stories that frankly I wonder what would you say is an actual good realistic-modern Love Story Big Grin

I think all women / men are like this to some extent.
05-28-2018 07:31 PM
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Akwesi Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
I have actually tried a few times to read the books or watch the movies in order to understand their appeal, but it's hopeless. it is just so boring and stupid, so poorly written, acted, and directed that it's just mind-boggling that anyone can get through whole books/movies like this, much less that they become enthusiastic fans and obsess about the shallow characters and the ludicrous plots. It may be that understanding this stuff is the key to the pearly gates of poosy paradise, but if so they will never open for me. On the other hand it has made me reflect on what things we men like that are like 50 shades in reverse, i. e., shit that we obsess about but girls find absurd and idiotic. It certainly demonstrates, once again, that men and women are virtually separate species.
05-28-2018 07:48 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #23
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
(05-28-2018 07:48 PM)Akwesi Wrote:  I have actually tried a few times to read the books or watch the movies in order to understand their appeal, but it's hopeless. it is just so boring and stupid, so poorly written, acted, and directed that it's just mind-boggling that anyone can get through whole books/movies like this, much less that they become enthusiastic fans and obsess about the shallow characters and the ludicrous plots. It may be that understanding this stuff is the key to the pearly gates of poosy paradise, but if so they will never open for me. On the other hand it has made me reflect on what things we men like that are like 50 shades in reverse, i. e., shit that we obsess about but girls find absurd and idiotic. It certainly demonstrates, once again, that men and women are virtually separate species.

^ Youre thinking like a man. That the value of a work lies in the com-positional "quality"said work.

Women dont care about the prose: only about the emotions it induces.

By extension

-They dont care about (nor remember) what you say...only how you made her feel

Moreover

-They dont care how you got rich...only that you are

-They dont care how you got fit / jacked...only that you are

Example: How much of the 50 Shades story is about how the young Mr Grey became a billionaire ?

Little to none...because it doesn't matter

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2018 09:56 PM by PapayaTapper.)
05-28-2018 09:35 PM
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CynicalContrarian Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 50 Shades of Fantasy
^
Not to mention the fantasy chicks will revel in when reading or watching such tripe.

They're not thinking of "Anna Steele" or what ever the retard character's name is.
They're fantasizing that it is in fact them being swept off their feet by the slick, suave, stranger.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2018 08:16 AM by CynicalContrarian.)
05-30-2018 08:15 AM
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