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Lifter's Lounge
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Richard Turpin Offline
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Post: #4651
RE: Lifter's Lounge
@Dalaran1991, It's worth bearing in mind that your relationship with lifting/bulking changes as you get older.

I was a skinny runner when I started lifting. In my teens and twenties all I wanted was size and strength. I ate and lifted accordingly and got what I wanted. There's nothing wrong with this whatsoever. If I had my time again I'd do the same.

I'm in my 40's now and I'm more concerned with quality, performance, longevity and looking good. Hence, I'm a lot more cagey with putting on weight; it gets harder to shift as you age.

That said, you look like you can burn off calories for fun (your age and metabolism), so you might get away with eating a ton of food. I certainly did, when I was younger. The last time I tried it, not so much.

Honestly, try it for yourself. Now is the time to try stuff like this, you look like you'll have no problem rolling things back and resetting if things go awry.

If you are are struggling to eat more and can tolerate it, whole milk will do the trick. You don't have to go full-GOMAD, but it's easier to drink calories than eat them. Again, this worked for the younger Richard Turpin, the older one mostly stays away from the stuff.

EDIT: @Scorpion, that Deadlifting comparison between Brian Shaw and the lighter guy is absolutely incredible. For there to be only 50lbs difference in their lifts, despite their size differences...?! Mind-blowing.

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(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 10:19 AM by Richard Turpin.)
01-04-2019 10:07 AM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #4652
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Dalaran, what does you program look like? Btw, is Brian Shaw related to Steve Shaw (good youtube channel)?
01-04-2019 12:55 PM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
For ex:

All last set to failure. Any exercise that could be done with either dumbbells or bar, I switch them up every 6 weeks. So for bench press I would do 6 weeks bar and 6 weeks dumbells.
I dont have a set day, I go 4 times a week and pick 2-3 groups of muscles to train for that day and do 3-4 exercises with at least 2 compound exercises.

Chest
Incline Press: 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Flat Press: 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Pec deck, 4 x 12
Chest flies, incline, flat: 3 x 12
Chest dips, 3 x 12

Lower Body
Deadlift, 5x5
Squats 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Weighted lunges 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps

This was what I did to get great results 4 years ago, see pictures. So I dont believe my stagnant size gain is neural adaptation since its not like Im new to this. Might just need to really eat more and forget about the abs completely. Given my lifestyle I can cut back by simply upping the cardio and 200 cal deficit.

Im also waiting for my testoterone results, should be next week. Might say a lot.

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(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 01:08 PM by Dalaran1991.)
01-04-2019 01:07 PM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #4654
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Never heard of such "non programming" approach, but it sounds interesting. Definitely not for me though, as I prefer strict programming where I know what I will do for each workout day. Currently doing powerbuilding routine and am thinking of doing The Bridge (Barbell Medicine) later.
01-04-2019 02:21 PM
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zatara Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-04-2019 09:38 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?

Yeah, your last paragraph is pretty much spot on. Lower bodyfat means you'll look bigger naked because of having more definition, but you'll look smaller in clothes because you'll be physically smaller. Its why, in my experience anyway, its easiest to let a slightly higher bodyfat% ride in the winter. You look bigger in clothes, and can have a more relaxed lifestyle diet/alcohol wise around Christmas, NYE, Thanksgiving etc. Not to the point of actually being fat mind you - just up to no more than 15% or so.

If your workouts are on point (as they sound to be from your other posts), and your strength is decent/improving (150% bodyweight bench is very respectable) then with all your combat sports on top of the lifting workouts you're probably just burning too many calories to gain weight. Throw an extra 1000 calories of good food a day into your diet for a month and see what happens. If you start getting fat cut down by 500cal, rinse and repeat.

Worst case scenario you put on a couple KG of fat so you then cut for a month and its gone. Its worth the experiment, given your current diet isn't resulting in gains.
01-05-2019 07:14 AM
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Cr33pin Offline
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Post: #4656
Rainbow RE: Lifter's Lounge



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01-05-2019 02:03 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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Post: #4657
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-04-2019 09:38 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  
(01-04-2019 08:58 AM)zatara Wrote:  If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?


If you want to get bigger you have to work the other muscles of your body, not just your chest. From your waist, shoulders, and lack of visible lats from the front of your body, I would guess that your other lifts are lagging way behind your bench press. You have a big chest but you don't look like a strong guy to me, and it's things like the under developed waist/core that suggest that to me. Your chest is already out of proportion in my view to the rest of your musculature that can be seen from the front. I don't think that would be the case if the rest of your lifts were proportionate to your bench.
01-05-2019 05:10 PM
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MOVSM Offline
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Post: #4658
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-05-2019 02:03 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  ...

Why does he sound like he built his muscles with soy protein exclusively?

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01-05-2019 08:02 PM
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Cr33pin Offline
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Rainbow RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-05-2019 08:02 PM)MOVSM Wrote:  
(01-05-2019 02:03 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  ...

Why does he sound like he built his muscles with soy protein exclusively?
[Image: giphy.gif]

You kids need to stop.... your list of demands for what a man should look like before you would consider his advice are worse then a fat 4 on tinders demands of what their match should be.... clowns like you are all "I'm not taking advice from a guy unless he is 7'3 550lbs at 4% body fat an sporting the beard of Zeus"

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(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 10:22 PM by Cr33pin.)
01-05-2019 10:08 PM
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scotian Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Do any lifters here do manual labour type jobs and if so, how do you fit in your workouts and and maintain energy levels? I'm starting a new six month gig tomorrow and it's going to be tough, it will be all outdoor work and quite physically demanding as I will be climbing a lot of ladders and doing industrial rope access, which is basically like rock climbing except in an oil refinery so I'll be climbing up and repelling down ropes systems all day. I will be working 0700-1700 so am debating going to the gym from 0530-0630 or going after, my only concern then would be the affect that evening workouts will have on my sleep. Another concern is carb intake, I'd like to lower it (I plan on cutting out all junk food, bread, etc) but I will need the energy to get to the gym and of course, do my job all day which will be very physically demanding.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

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01-06-2019 12:37 PM
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Laurifer Offline
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Post: #4661
RE: Lifter's Lounge
A routine a coworker and I had was as soon as we were back in camp, we'd go to our rooms and put on gym clothes and also mix up some preworkout, then head to dinner. We'd take our time eating dinner, then down the preworkout (possibly take a quick shit), and head straight to the gym. Only downside was working out on a full stomach which doesn't bode well for some and taking preworkout too close to bed time.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2019 01:11 PM by Laurifer.)
01-06-2019 01:09 PM
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ThriceLazarus Offline
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Post: #4662
RE: Lifter's Lounge
@Scotian

Try to make your morning workout routine. A few studies I recall found that keeping heart-rate/physical activity elevated after lifting weights lead to appreciable gains compared to the control group. And if you miss your morning workout you always have the evening to get it in. You may want to give yourself a month or so for your body to acclimate to the stresses of that gig.

As for diet, of course cut out low quality carbs. However, get on your staples - steel cut oats, potatoes, a mixture of white and brown rice, etc. Your body will need the starch, a primary component of the fluid that lubricates the fascial network. With all the activity you’ll be doing you’ll need to keep your joints/ligaments/tendons in good working order. Pectin and cellulose (waxy fruit/fibrous veg respectively) are other nutrients to stay on top of.

As for sugar, it can be your greatest weapon. Fructose primes the pancreas to produce inflated levels of insulin - coupled with clever meal timing, and minding the GLUT-4 receptors of your muscle tissue, you can use this to your advantage.

After all is said, it really comes down to you and your body. Some people feel great on clean carbs, others prefer to cut them out completely. Keep us posted with how the machine is running. Good luck Brother!

@Laurifer

If you can work out on a full stomach this is another way to go. The trick is to time the end of your workout with peak blood-glucose levels - anywhere from 1-2 hours after you eat depending on diet and bio-efficiency.

Personally, I bust if I try to workout too close to eating. The benefit of fasted training is keen as well.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2019 02:25 PM by ThriceLazarus.)
01-06-2019 02:21 PM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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Post: #4663
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-05-2019 05:10 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  If you want to get bigger you have to work the other muscles of your body, not just your chest. From your waist, shoulders, and lack of visible lats from the front of your body, I would guess that your other lifts are lagging way behind your bench press. You have a big chest but you don't look like a strong guy to me, and it's things like the under developed waist/core that suggest that to me. Your chest is already out of proportion in my view to the rest of your musculature that can be seen from the front. I don't think that would be the case if the rest of your lifts were proportionate to your bench.

Guilty, my other lift such as overhead and lats pull down is very weak compared to chest. Part of this is me being quite happy with the overall V-shape that I have so I dont put as much time in lats. And I freaking hate shoulders. Niggas be complaining about leg days but for me shoulders are the worst. Fuckers are as weak as a scrawny rat compared to my pecs's bull strength.

For the core what do you mean by underdevelop? A good core only look good on a low body weight, what are the muscle you are talking about? For this I mainly rely on squat and deadlift but I confess my squat is only at 150% bodyweight same as my bench. But this is because I dont want to look any shorter given Im just 5"4

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01-06-2019 03:41 PM
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H1N1 Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-06-2019 03:41 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  
(01-05-2019 05:10 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  If you want to get bigger you have to work the other muscles of your body, not just your chest. From your waist, shoulders, and lack of visible lats from the front of your body, I would guess that your other lifts are lagging way behind your bench press. You have a big chest but you don't look like a strong guy to me, and it's things like the under developed waist/core that suggest that to me. Your chest is already out of proportion in my view to the rest of your musculature that can be seen from the front. I don't think that would be the case if the rest of your lifts were proportionate to your bench.

Guilty, my other lift such as overhead and lats pull down is very weak compared to chest. Part of this is me being quite happy with the overall V-shape that I have so I dont put as much time in lats. And I freaking hate shoulders. Niggas be complaining about leg days but for me shoulders are the worst. Fuckers are as weak as a scrawny rat compared to my pecs's bull strength.

For the core what do you mean by underdevelop? A good core only look good on a low body weight, what are the muscle you are talking about? For this I mainly rely on squat and deadlift but I confess my squat is only at 150% bodyweight same as my bench. But this is because I dont want to look any shorter given Im just 5"4

You have basically identified for yourself why you can't get bigger. Man cannot get big by bench alone.

For the health of your physique, it is probably advisable to consider adding a lot more pulling work into your regime.

I suspect your squat of 150% bw is also not all the way down, until your bum is on your heels, for a very distinct paused rep with immaculate form. I say this because whilst being slim shows what musculature is there in the first place, there is a look of structural strength and stability that the core takes on when all aspects of the physique are well developed and in balance.

If you are shorter and don't want to do this stuff for other reasons, that's entirely your prerogative and I'm not passing any judgement - you just asked why you weren't getting bigger, which isn't the same thing.
01-06-2019 05:14 PM
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teddy bear Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
From what I have noticed past few years, it's hardly a good idea for most to try and build muscle with 'lean muscle mass way'. You either bulk and get fat or you cut. Then you evaluate how much you have gained/lost, and how much further you are from the starting point.

Just eating a bit more than you need and worrying about your ABS is a dead-end imo. Unless you get on juice -- then you can probably add a few kilos while still keeping fairly lean post cycle.

I have recently cut quite significantly and since December I started the 'bulk' period. I look worse than before, weights are only a bit up, but I'm focused on the long-term. Gonna keep it up for 2-3 months, get as fat and strong as I can, then start cutting for summer.

When I worked out for the 'lean mass' gains alone, I have hit the wall several times and couldn't get past this point no matter how hard I tried. If you got your bench up to 150% that's pretty good, although you are way too skinny imo. I'm 5'7", so only a bit taller than you, I weigh 20 kilograms more, and can still do 5 pull ups with +25kg, and 5 dips with +50kg. Although, I do look a bit fat now -- with this height and current body mass I was best looking at around ~70kg.

And yeah, try and do ATG squats only. Frankly, I'm not sure where does the trend for half-squats come from, but they are far from being healthier for your joints and knees, and basically any guru on the BB forum will say the same. Ass-to-grass or nothing!
01-12-2019 06:23 PM
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Post: #4666
RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-06-2019 12:37 PM)scotian Wrote:  Do any lifters here do manual labour type jobs and if so, how do you fit in your workouts and and maintain energy levels? I'm starting a new six month gig tomorrow and it's going to be tough, it will be all outdoor work and quite physically demanding as I will be climbing a lot of ladders and doing industrial rope access, which is basically like rock climbing except in an oil refinery so I'll be climbing up and repelling down ropes systems all day. I will be working 0700-1700 so am debating going to the gym from 0530-0630 or going after, my only concern then would be the affect that evening workouts will have on my sleep. Another concern is carb intake, I'd like to lower it (I plan on cutting out all junk food, bread, etc) but I will need the energy to get to the gym and of course, do my job all day which will be very physically demanding.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks.

I did it both successfully and unsuccessfully, so here are a few pieces of advice for doing it successfully. I had the same problem you did and have been trying to refine my approach for about two years. For reference my manual labor job was/is construction and lifting heavy shit on a dock all day for 10-14 hour days, sometimes six days a week.

Avoid drugs, alcohol, especially smoking (vape if you need). Avoid coffee after 10AM.

Grocery shopping is the hardest workout. General guideline is every meal is a big piece of meat and a handful of vegetables and about 3/4 cup of dry rice per day. I try to go no more than 100-150 grams of carbs a day while cutting even while working a manual labor job. This should be more than enough for energy. You will likely lose about four pounds of fat per month eating this way, but if you are not hungry for whatever reason then eat a little food. That 100-150 grams of carbs per day I feel is essential but your protein intake must be high. A big piece of fish or beef every meal is what you'll need for good energy.

For 700-1700 I would wake up at 500AM and try to be lifting at around 5:30. Try to stand up and be walking around since an early morning workout can be risky to the spine since the joints are full of synovial fluid for that first ten minutes or so.

Low reps and slightly higher weights are great since you rarely get sore and still grow. I did exactly this program for months on end *(cite-Pavel's russian PTTP) -

Mo/Fr **(optional M/W/F)
Five minutes of light dumbbell complexes to warm up shoulders, back, and knees - take a pair of 20-50# dumbbells and do deadlift to curl to front squat to press, back to front squat, curl negative, back to ground and back. Or just curl and press to front squat. Ladder rep scheme like 2, 3, 5, 3, 2, 5. Nothing fancy.

Barbell Deadlift
80% of 1RM - 2 reps, 3 reps, 5 reps. *(OR 1,2,3,2,1,1)
DB Overhead Press
80% of 1RM - 2r, 3r, 5r
Every eight weeks, test a PR and add weight accordingly.

With low reps, fairly high intensity strength training you're never really sore and you do grow quite a bit of muscle. You can superset the DL and dumbbell overhead press and get the whole workout done in like 15 minutes. In six months you could easily put 40-60 pounds on your 1 rep max deadlift, or more. Increase weight with caution and if it's too heavy one workout just drop the weight and continue.

Wed
Rest

Tu/Th
Something body weight 50/20. 50 reps in 20 minutes. It could be pushups superset with machine/cable rows.
You could even do 30/20 if you want.

Sa/Su
Pick one day or the other and try to do farmer's carries or some kind of weighted GPP. 100# in each hand is a good goal to strive for. Walk across gym and back holding dumbbells or trap bar six to nine times. Do some ancilliary shit like calves, forearms, machine curls. These days you can skip if you want.

Some Notes
You are likely correct that evening workouts might not be good for sleep. I have done it but it did disturb sleep at times. If you want to work out in the evenings then lower weights, higher rep and rest-pause intervals would be just fine.

Sometimes it's better to just go to the gym, smash one lift for 30-60 minutes, and leave. I love dumbbell clean and press for this reason.

A guy can work out much harder than this but I'm not sure what your goals are. Even if you do a minimal 30 minute workout 4-5 days per week routine like I listed here you're going to look a lot different in six months.

Women want guys with big forearms, traps, and arms and calves. So you might as well always hit forearms, traps, arms, and calves.

If you throw like one or two chinups in between each set you will grow even if it's easy. Volume is a good thing.

If you are working like twenty days in a row or something crazy you might want something a little different. Let me know if you like it or want to do something else.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2019 01:53 AM by flanders.)
01-14-2019 01:40 AM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-12-2019 06:23 PM)teddy bear Wrote:  From what I have noticed past few years, it's hardly a good idea for most to try and build muscle with 'lean muscle mass way'. You either bulk and get fat or you cut. Then you evaluate how much you have gained/lost, and how much further you are from the starting point.

Just eating a bit more than you need and worrying about your ABS is a dead-end imo. Unless you get on juice -- then you can probably add a few kilos while still keeping fairly lean post cycle.

I have recently cut quite significantly and since December I started the 'bulk' period. I look worse than before, weights are only a bit up, but I'm focused on the long-term. Gonna keep it up for 2-3 months, get as fat and strong as I can, then start cutting for summer.

When I worked out for the 'lean mass' gains alone, I have hit the wall several times and couldn't get past this point no matter how hard I tried. If you got your bench up to 150% that's pretty good, although you are way too skinny imo. I'm 5'7", so only a bit taller than you, I weigh 20 kilograms more, and can still do 5 pull ups with +25kg, and 5 dips with +50kg. Although, I do look a bit fat now -- with this height and current body mass I was best looking at around ~70kg.

And yeah, try and do ATG squats only. Frankly, I'm not sure where does the trend for half-squats come from, but they are far from being healthier for your joints and knees, and basically any guru on the BB forum will say the same. Ass-to-grass or nothing!

I'm 60kg and benching 90kg x 3, so 150% BW.

I find that eating enough to bulk incredibly difficult since I have a small stomach and I also cant eat breakfast, never have for more than 10 years now.
Add to the fact that I love combat sports which are essentiall HIIT so that means I would have to eat A LOT more.

I actually think currently I'm quite fat comparing to 4 years ago where I was ripped with very good msucle definition (see pics from last page). Ideally I just want to get that body back with a slighly bigger chest and shoulders if possible. Force eating myself for a few months then force cutting seem like wasted effort to me, but I'll have to think on this.

Regarding squats I've always go lower than my knees but not ass to grass. After H1N1 recommendation I tried going much lower with 100% BW and something goes wrong with my right lower back, forcing me to go light for a week. I believe a muscle/tendon popped or something. Maybe ATG is just not for me.

There's as much discussion against ATG as there is for. The logical way is just to listen to your body. I will try to go lower with a safe weight but I dont want to get an injury due to ego.

I agree that my core might be week though. I neglected core training for a while thinking that my combat sports should be enough, forgetting that my upper body is growing and the core is supporting a heavier weight without the necessary gain in strength.

On that note, hanging windshield leg wipe is an absolute core builder (and killer)

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(This post was last modified: 01-14-2019 10:05 AM by Dalaran1991.)
01-14-2019 09:57 AM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-14-2019 09:57 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 06:23 PM)teddy bear Wrote:  From what I have noticed past few years, it's hardly a good idea for most to try and build muscle with 'lean muscle mass way'. You either bulk and get fat or you cut. Then you evaluate how much you have gained/lost, and how much further you are from the starting point.

Just eating a bit more than you need and worrying about your ABS is a dead-end imo. Unless you get on juice -- then you can probably add a few kilos while still keeping fairly lean post cycle.

I have recently cut quite significantly and since December I started the 'bulk' period. I look worse than before, weights are only a bit up, but I'm focused on the long-term. Gonna keep it up for 2-3 months, get as fat and strong as I can, then start cutting for summer.

When I worked out for the 'lean mass' gains alone, I have hit the wall several times and couldn't get past this point no matter how hard I tried. If you got your bench up to 150% that's pretty good, although you are way too skinny imo. I'm 5'7", so only a bit taller than you, I weigh 20 kilograms more, and can still do 5 pull ups with +25kg, and 5 dips with +50kg. Although, I do look a bit fat now -- with this height and current body mass I was best looking at around ~70kg.

And yeah, try and do ATG squats only. Frankly, I'm not sure where does the trend for half-squats come from, but they are far from being healthier for your joints and knees, and basically any guru on the BB forum will say the same. Ass-to-grass or nothing!

I'm 60kg and benching 90kg x 3, so 150% BW.

I find that eating enough to bulk incredibly difficult since I have a small stomach and I also cant eat breakfast, never have for more than 10 years now.
Add to the fact that I love combat sports which are essentiall HIIT so that means I would have to eat A LOT more.

I actually think currently I'm quite fat comparing to 4 years ago where I was ripped with very good msucle definition (see pics from last page). Ideally I just want to get that body back with a slighly bigger chest and shoulders if possible. Force eating myself for a few months then force cutting seem like wasted effort to me, but I'll have to think on this.

Regarding squats I've always go lower than my knees but not ass to grass. After H1N1 recommendation I tried going much lower with 100% BW and something goes wrong with my right lower back, forcing me to go light for a week. I believe a muscle/tendon popped or something. Maybe ATG is just not for me.

There's as much discussion against ATG as there is for. The logical way is just to listen to your body. I will try to go lower with a safe weight but I dont want to get an injury due to ego.

I agree that my core might be week though. I neglected core training for a while thinking that my combat sports should be enough, forgetting that my upper body is growing and the core is supporting a heavier weight without the necessary gain in strength.

On that note, hanging windshield leg wipe is an absolute core builder (and killer)

ATG is fine for you, you are just much weaker than you expected to be. The same is true for most people.

Unless you have pre existing injuries, on which I wouldn't be qualified to comment, the reason people are against atg pause squats is that they are infinitely harder than squats to parallel.

It is a natural movement to squat to your heels. The trouble is, doing it, with a pause at the bottom, with real weight, is brutally hard. You should try with 50% of your weight, paused at rock bottom, and go for high reps. Add weight slowly. You will grow from sets of 15 or 20 if you are hitting those reps at the start. It's great, you now have the opportunity to grow while putting much less strain on your joints by using lighter weights.
01-14-2019 10:33 AM
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Trumpian Offline
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Post: #4669
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Hit 42.5 kilo dumbbells x 5 with good form on the incline bench today.

It's weird lifting is something I do a lot less of than I used to, with most of my workouts being Muay Thai. I'm 15 lbs lighter than when I was on the bodybuilding diet. But I'm stronger than I've ever been.

Lift less for more gains I guess.
01-14-2019 12:21 PM
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StrikeBack Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
Did I just hear a Viet saying he doesn't squat ATG???? I can't even...

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01-14-2019 08:13 PM
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flanders Offline
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Post: #4671
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Strikeback, I've been an ATG squatter for years now and can hit depths to the point where going lower is impossible. I have recently started rethinking this for heavy barbell squatting since it's obvious that tension is lost (perhaps in the hamstrings) when you go that far in the hole, not to mention that all the load bearing stresses are being acted on ligaments (bone to bone connections) not tendons (muscle to bone). The explanation I've read is that "muscle spindle activation" stops at the very low squat and it in turn inhibits the stretch reflex.

Given that the whole point of muscles is to take strain away from joints and ligaments during movement, don't you think that the "hit parallel and stop" crowd has a good point?

For lighter movements I don't see why ATG would be a problem of course.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2019 11:45 AM by flanders.)
01-15-2019 11:42 AM
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
My entire reason for that comment is because Dalaran1991 is Vietnamese and he's shaming our ancestors by not squatting ATG. It is unacceptable in our culture! If he can't even squat ATG, how is he gonna marry a nice girl and pop out babies to continue the family name?

If you're not Vietnamese, you can squat Western style whenever and wherever you like!

In all seriousness, it depends on what you do barbell squat for. If you do it for weightlifting, ATG is a must, even with very heavy weights. If you do it for powerlifting, there is no point for your main competition lift (I certainly don't do it for my powerlifting squat), but it might help you as an assistance to both squat and deadlift. If you do it for bodybuilding, you probably should too because longer ROM equals more time under tension equals bigger muscles. For the "tension lost in hamstrings" part, take a look at a typical weightlifter who squats ATG all the time and see if they lack hamstring development, or lack anything in their bodybuilding really.

If you do it to be fit and healthy for various sports or just day to day life, then you really need it (heavyweights are not necessary here) because being strong and comfortable in that position is what you're born with and what you should retain throughout your life for fitness and injury avoidance. If in doubt, take a look at a toddler (of any race), who squats ATG with ease and can stay there all day long. It will improve your posture, ensure your hip stay mobile (great when you're playing sports including combat sports), save your back (less likely to bend over and throw your back out of position picking stuff up), and for women, it makes child birth easier.

Whatever you do with your squats, I think there needs to be ATG squatting in the program somewhere, even just with bodyweight or goblet squatting with light weights.

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01-15-2019 08:45 PM
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Dalaran1991 Offline
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RE: Lifter's Lounge
(01-15-2019 08:45 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  My entire reason for that comment is because Dalaran1991 is Vietnamese and he's shaming our ancestors by not squatting ATG. It is unacceptable in our culture! If he can't even squat ATG, how is he gonna marry a nice girl and pop out babies to continue the family name?

If you're not Vietnamese, you can squat Western style whenever and wherever you like!

Because we Viets come from a long line of barbarian warriors who live on a death world where the jungle eat you alive and daily survival itself is a victory. And here I am complaining about not squatting ATG, these guys here disapprove. Hell naw we didn't beat back 9 invasions from Chinese, Mongolian, French, Japanese and American for this!!!!!

[Image: 3628384.jpg?381]
"Fuck outta here and go join the pussy whipped Westerners till you can squat ATG"

I'm so ashamed now I'm on self-imposed exile and won't be allow to assume my ancestry till I can squat properly Sad

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01-16-2019 06:58 AM
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sterling_archer Offline
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Post: #4674
RE: Lifter's Lounge
Just watch out if someone notices you doing leg presses. You will probably be executed on sight when you return to your native village.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2019 07:27 AM by sterling_archer.)
01-16-2019 07:26 AM
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Irenicus Offline
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Post: #4675
RE: Lifter's Lounge
I don't do ATG squats (front and back).


Reason? My knees have suffered damage that I will carry the rest of my life, due to a few accidents I have suffered. As I kid, I fell of a bike (and scooter) multiple times, and a few years ago, a rockslide hit the bus I was travelling in, the only casualities being my knees and laptop.


Looking at some of the above posts, it seems that I will have to take Vietnam off my traveling list. A pity. I hope Japanese and Koreans are more forgiving!

Ceterum autem censeo Scandinavia delendam esse.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2019 07:53 AM by Irenicus.)
01-16-2019 07:51 AM
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