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Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #51
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-07-2019 08:40 AM)treypound Wrote:  Thanks all for the varying views and advice. To provide an update and give additional clarity:

We have had a few discussions in-depth on this topic, and I have come to the conclusion that while I am enjoying her company in the present, I would find myself miserable in the future. Her spending habits on frivolous retail purchases and pampering (spas/massage etc) is excessive. When we began dating, she somewhat hid some of her behavior, but I also had not been exposed to her social circle until a couple months in. Once I had a chance to see how her friends operate and think, I could see we would have issues.

Re: her family, she comes from a working class family in which in her mother worked as a teacher until she and her sister came around. Her mother then stayed at home and took care of the house/kids while her father ran an auto repair shop in her hometown. I have met her parents, and they seem like decent people. It wasn't until she went away to college that she connected with her clique of girls that seem to have changed her views on life.

I honestly don't see her wanting to resume her career after having a child. Again, I am not at a point where I feel she's the only fish in the sea, however some of the feedback here has reinforced my gut instinct.

As I intimated in my earlier post. Her spending habits are an inculcated cultural conditioning. She's most likely compensating for social insecurities caused by her modest upbringing. This is especially true if her friends come from more affluent families.

In this day and age where the height of social status is to be rich and famous for no reason (think Kardashians) based on merit (ie talent, and hard work ) to most western women there's nothing worse than to be seen as "poor".

After all everyone is special and deserves all life's rewards (YOLO )...right?

Only special losers dont get what they want, when they want it

This is a lot for her to overcome

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
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07-09-2019 02:25 PM
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tugofpeace Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Honestly, $120k debt isn't a lot given her income. I actually have the same amount of debt ($100k student loans financed at 4.5% interest), and $20k credit card debt (0% interest). I make the same amount of money too.

Difference is, I am actively trying to pay it off. I'm only 31 so if I remain single the next 3 years I could pay this down by 34. However, it only amounts to a $1000/month payment. After all my expenses, I pocket about $2000-2500/month. To me, I rather save my money and invest it to have liquidity rather than be broke just to say I have no student loan debt.

If I were to get married to a woman who works, I could pay this off within 2 years because of how much money I'd save on rent and other expenses.

As for your girl, if you've talked to her and she isn't willing to change her habits, that's a red flag. Anyone who has that kind of debt should realize how fucked up it is and should at the very least be trying to save money to pay it off while maintaining a decent lifestyle, if not aggressively reducing expenses to clear it. If she isn't making any effort at all and doesn't care about it, it's a red flag for her financial stupidity.
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2019 11:47 PM by tugofpeace.)
07-09-2019 11:43 PM
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The ZOG-WAG Complex Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
This is a tough decision, but maybe not as bad as other decisions you'll have to make.

Unfortunately, most college students have loan debt in excess of 20k these days. This is the new normal. I'll break it down for you.

Quote:It's been a while since I have been able to log on, and there appears to be some changes re: the forum topics. Hopefully this isn't in violation. Over the past couple months, I have been spending time with a woman I met shortly after moving to Houston. 27 y/o with a degree in business from Arizona State who for the past year has been working in pharma sales and killing it.

Let's start here. And I'll start with an assumption. I don't know about the caliber of the business school but A State is generally a party school, no? Sales position... so she's extroverted.

Quote:Body is amazing, can cook, and has aspirations of starting a family/marriage before 30.

No problems here, have you discussed though the future? There a lot more women in the workforce these days staying in the high level jobs longer and longer before starting families. So is she firm starting a family?

Quote:All that said, there are two issues I see.

1. She has over $120,000 in debt to her name, and no defined plan to pay it off.

Is is a lot, this is like law school levels of debt, or almost med school. Is this the result of 4 years of undergrad or go back for MBA? Anyway, water under the bridge at this point, but this is a high level of debt. And as I'm sure you know, student loan debt is especially pernicious, and can't even be discharged via bankruptcy.

Quote:Most of that (80-85) is student loan debt, however it doesn't even phase her.
Ok, so this is more workable but still a lot.

Quote:The rest is a mix of car and credit card debt.
Credit card debt for average people can run 5 to 10k easily. In the scheme of things if that's what she's looking at that's not bad. But let's get to the car, and I'm sure I'll talk about it more too later. Did she buy a new car? Is it a lease? Is it a luxury car. Not trying to assume anything too much, but I have heard of tons of women that buy new, get ripped off, buy beamers because everyone else is driving them. As I'm sure you know, doing all these things are extremely unwise. If it is the case that she did one of these things, from here on out you need to look at being more sustainable and pragmatic as dumb as that sounds about transportation. And as I'm sure you're already aware, people, many women, say "I need this car for work", "to maintain appearances". On face value this is not true at all, even if you have an outward facing job you just need a clean serviceable car, under 10 years old that is well maintained from a reliable, your choice, foreign or domestic brand: Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Ford sedan, or maybe a larger vehicle like a Ford Focus.

Quote: She makes decent money on her job (guessing between 100k gross), but that goes to the second issue...
It's a lifestyle issue and you can't keep with with the Joneses for the duration of your relationship. Obvious drags on proper spending would be: coffeeshop coffee, eating out daily, not cooking meals, online shopping, designer (full price) clothing, excessive spa/ salon visits, overages on cell data, buying new phones that too expensive, too frequently, buying name brands instead of generics, high liquor bills, excessive vacationing, parking/ traffic tickets, subscriptions to multiple streaming services, improper car maintenance, maid service/ cleaning, and others off the top of my head. As you can see, there could be thousands a month that could be saved on these things along, especially if your girl is shopping buying designer clothes/ shoes/ bags montly, getting coffee all the time, eating out more than couple times a week.

Quote:2. She spends as soon as she makes it. I have always been conservative financially, so when I inherited an unexpected windfall of funds, I already had a plan to execute. I purchased my condo in cash, paid off the little consumer debt I had (20k), and have the rest invested in mutual funds/real estate/little in crypto. When it comes to finances, she either has no interest or is naive' assuming perhaps her future husband will pay it off.

The situation you find yourself in is if you are with her long term and marry you're on the hook for her loan. And if you divorce maybe she gets half. So you're looking at being on the hook for a lot of honey. I guess where I'm going with this is she starts having to demonstrating that she's making financial sacrifices if you are going to be together long term. It is unhealthy in a spiritual sense to not have your financials in order and be excessively worldly. Further, she's going to have to stop behaving like her peers. Anyone, enough doom and gloom.

Financials are a huge strain on marriages and relationships so obviously a plan has to be executed. I wish you the best. Going into it, if you can both get on the same page, you will set a good tone for the future of the relationship. As far as action goes, stuff you can do today, itemize all the unnecessary/ discretionary spending. Find ways to reduce it as much as possible, by substituting or even eliminating the unnecessary. And then get her on the same page about a budget, make a budget and stick to it. That's it really.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2019 01:59 AM by The ZOG-WAG Complex.)
07-10-2019 01:55 AM
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Montrose Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Related story from a different perspective: as I said above, my wife of 20 years has never had any income, I have always provided for everything financially (but she does a great job around the house). Now the kids are grown up and she wants to get a job, so I said 'great, now you can contribute to the family budget'. She said 'what? my salary will pay for my hair salon, massage and manucure!' (which I am already paying for, btw).

Anyway, it shows that even the best women feel absolutely no responsibility. With disarming candor, she sees my salary as belonging to the family, and hers as pocket money. Fortunately, my daughter sided with me and showed the fallacy of her mother's position.
07-13-2019 11:02 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Women are very good at remembering how you spent money on her when you first met, then they'll turn the screws against you for life.

You supported her from day 1. She will expect that same treatment for the duration of the relationship. I've never seen a woman tone down her expectations of money regardless if she earns it herself. She'll spend it on the dog before she willingly contributes anything financially to you.

If you have to explain common courtesy to contribute financially after all these years, then she's a lost case. You enabled this behavior. I learned to explain the financial boundaries to women at the onset. This will avoid conflict later.

I don't care how alpha guys say they will support their wife / girlfriend. Money is finite. You can't make the same salary forever. Fiscal discipline is required.
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2019 04:28 AM by jabba.)
07-14-2019 04:27 AM
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tugofpeace Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
(07-13-2019 11:02 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Related story from a different perspective: as I said above, my wife of 20 years has never had any income, I have always provided for everything financially (but she does a great job around the house). Now the kids are grown up and she wants to get a job, so I said 'great, now you can contribute to the family budget'. She said 'what? my salary will pay for my hair salon, massage and manucure!' (which I am already paying for, btw).

Anyway, it shows that even the best women feel absolutely no responsibility. With disarming candor, she sees my salary as belonging to the family, and hers as pocket money. Fortunately, my daughter sided with me and showed the fallacy of her mother's position.

If she's using her job to support her hair salon, massage, and manicure, then she is effectively taking those expenses off your plate which is technically contributing to your family's savings.. unless she is making more than is required for those activities and spending that on things which she doesn't spend now.
07-14-2019 02:45 PM
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N°6 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Considering a LDR with a woman with debt
Would she have considered marrying you with $120,000 debt if she had your net worth?
07-14-2019 03:11 PM
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