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Writing a novel
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Soothesayer Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Writing a novel
Surprised no one mentioned the book "Write to Market". It's a bestseller for a reason. The principles within apply to non-fiction as well as fiction. The main gist of the book is:

Write a good book people want to read... that fulfills people's expectations with regard to plot, character, and pace. You don't need a college degree to write the next bestseller either. Just READ READ READ, as much as you write.

Read at least three recent (10 years) bestselling novels in your genre. If sci-fi, go for total immersion. Watch Star Trek. Play Mass Effect. Watch Battlestar Galactica. Read the scripts. Outline the chapters in your favorite sci-fi book. What did fans like or not like?

Study the Bestseller Lists for your genre, the Top Books. Read five '5 star' reviews found most helpful. Now read five '1 star' reviews people found most helpful. Take notes. This helps in identifying bad tropes or overused cliches or plots and characters that 'wander around in a fog' but don't go anywhere. Usually for galactic empire sci-fi type novels, there is a rogue captain, a ragtag crew, a huge ship with a cool name (Galactica), some unstoppable alien menace (Borg, Species 8472), a love interest, a rebel.

Authors who do not read in their respective genres do not succeed. Period. Full stop. They sort of bounce around for a few years and then give up. Read at least 1 hour a day.

In 2013-2015 I wrote seven bad novels in several genres but failed spectacularly because I forgot to account for reader expectations. And I did not read enough of my own genre to know what those expectations were. Movies alone will not do it. TV won't do it.

Try to avoid 'strong, independent' female captains. They do not exist.

Profit.
08-25-2016 05:12 PM
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Elmore Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Writing a novel
Finished my first novel around 6 months ago, and working on a second. I view it purely as a hobby and way to have some sort of legacy after i'm gone. Both are historical fiction set in the early medieval age. First one was in first person, which in hindsight was somewhat challenging, as his character was a simple rural peasant, called up to fight. So I had to keep his 'voice' and vocabulary quite narrow. The second is in third person, and has given me a lot more freedom with the prose.

Fact is that you really can't make much money in fiction these days. Who buys it, lets face it? Aside from blockbusters, which is something my work would never be, even were i good enough, it's too much of a niche. But i draw comfort from how bloody awful a lot of historical fiction is, and the fact that mine is not in the least bit 'pozzed' like it seems all other kowtowing authors are doing (creating sassy female medieval characters, shoe-horned in 'divirsity', gay lovers etc etc etc). I try to sow in a few red pills very subtly into it, although really, that's probably not accurate, i just try and write how that time likely was, which was a time when everyone pretty much was red pilled. On matters like race, gender and religion anyway.
04-06-2019 09:21 PM
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JKontherun
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Post: #28
RE: Writing a novel
I wrote a book (not a novel) and whoever said that the work doesn't start until you're finished is right on.

The writing part is fun. Once you hit a rhythm you can crank out words on command.
04-06-2019 11:40 PM
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ColSpanker Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Writing a novel
Most of my income is from fiction writing. Once again, it's the main reason I return to this forum. Beyond Boarders convinced me it could be done. Don't get too excited; I could make more money at a hamburger joint. If there's a magic formula for fame and fortune by writing novels, I've yet to find it. You can do alright if you find the right combination of readers and niches. However, I'm not there yet. My one observation is that anyone who fancies himself a novelist better learn to hustle. You'll need marketing, sales, and editing skills. Most of us will never be "discovered" by some famous agent. You have to hit the circuit and not be afraid to put yourself in front of a camera. Besides, most of the buyers and agents for the trad publishers are infested with the blue pill disease.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
04-07-2019 12:20 AM
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Cr33pin Online
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Post: #30
Rainbow RE: Writing a novel
(07-26-2014 12:29 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  


I saw the title of this thread and went to post this video..... then saw the same thought crossed my mind 5 years ago...... some things never change

Bruising cervix since 96
#TeamBeard
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2019 01:44 AM by Cr33pin.)
04-07-2019 01:27 AM
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infinitejest Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Writing a novel
The old dream of writing the "great American novel" is long gone now. Fiction reading is such a niche hobby and has faded in relevance to movies, Netflix, social media, video games, and a number of other modern pleasures. Within that small niche, the majority of the interest and activity is in genre fiction. No one cares about literary fiction and no one really makes money from it anymore. Hell, even literary fiction has been its own genre in contemporary times, where every "serious" author was writing some magical realism style coming-of-age/multi-generational family story the last couple decades.

Of course, modern publishing/literature also might be the most SJW infested cultural institution in the West. Now I know that they've infected all cultural institutions in today's age, but I really don't know how an unknown white male can break through in the industry. Go look at any literary award, competition, fellowship, or site seeking new submissions and you will see an overwhelming number of women/PoC represented. Back in college I submitted some short fiction around and even at that time some sites were mentioning without a hint of irony that they weren't interested in submissions from white males in an effort to be more diverse. Basically, if you aren't already long established, you're probably better off self-publishing and trying to build your own audience, especially if you're writing about objective reality and more red pill themes. But who has got the time and financial stability for that?

Just for laughs here's the first site I found after looking up major book awards. Look at who is mostly winning nowadays. Plot twist: the first white male you see is gay and won the Pulitzer Prize for writing about a gay author about to turn fifty who is totally not based on the nearly fifty year old author himself. How creative.

https://www.bookbrowse.com/awards/
04-07-2019 02:36 AM
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Pride male Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Writing a novel
I am sure the hardest part isn't writing a novel but getting it published.

Don't debate me.
04-07-2019 02:12 PM
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ColSpanker Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Writing a novel
It's easy to do that with all the Internet forms you can use. I can have ten copies or more generated for any of my books. No longer do you have to worry about dumping $$$ on a local printer and pray you won't go broke. In the old days, vanity presses thrived on this sort of thing. Many wannbe novelists lived in houses full of their unsold books. I still see private edition and vanity press books from the 80's floating around at used bookstores.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
04-07-2019 08:53 PM
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Polniy_Sostav Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Writing a novel
I have been trying to write a novel recently.
The very few times I have been prolific I had the impression that I was particularly talented. Even had very good reviews from very neutral people who don't know me (on internet).

I obviously write in my native language and I dont want to do it for glory or money but more for the love of literature , but I don't mind being published if i ever deserve it.

I am facing a few difficulties , I first had very ambitious plan to write a science-fiction trilogy etc but it seems that after i write a few interesting pages I always come back to my deamons which is to lose my focus and start writing some cocky auto-fiction shit and private jokes with myself noone cares about.

I ve recently thought I could write a few "short stories" (not sure this is the word in english) , all having a different tone or style , and let my limited audience (neutral one) decide on which one I am the most talented so I could write a longer story in that "tone".

How do you deal with organizing ? I usually write when I have inspiration and time (hard with kids ) and then have no inspiration I stop.
I also feel always horrible to re-read myself , and would prefer to continue without reading what I wrote before , but I usually have to.

Any help is welcome.
09-14-2019 11:19 AM
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Thot Leader Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Writing a novel
Has anyone taken an online writers' workshop? Some of them are led by established authors. Typically cost a couple hundred bucks. Might be worth a shot to someone looking to learn the fundamentals...
09-14-2019 04:53 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Writing a novel
The tough thing about modern fiction is that exactly zero of the true literary masters would have their books published today by any major publishing house. No editor would make it past the second paragraph, because today's audiences need *constant* emotional stimulation, massive spikes up and down and left and right in every single scene, and any "successful" modern fiction author will laugh at you for daring to set up your work with exposition, backstory, detailed descriptions of people and places, and every single other thing that made the true masters great. So you're essentially left with two options: write like a histrionic child with a second-grade vocabulary, or write something of genuine substance knowing that you will never be recognized by any major outlet for doing so. That means accepting that your work will get very little money, and only be popular (if at all) with a small subset of people, but the reward is that you'll get to create art that actually means something and potentially has a big impact on that small subset of people. If you're in it for money the former is probably the best path to choose, but if you're in it to create something of lasting value then the latter is probably better.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2019 03:01 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-18-2019 02:58 AM
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Polniy_Sostav Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Writing a novel
Thank you Michael.
I am ok to dissociate money and writing.
Having the recognition of my talent by 2-3 readers who wrote the entire book is enough for me
09-18-2019 06:48 AM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Writing a novel
I’m on the same page. If anything I write ever wins a major award, I’ll know my writing is on the wrong track. Just tonight I picked up a Kindle book of award-winning modern fiction and it read like a bunch of fifth-graders’ writing assignments.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
(This post was last modified: 09-24-2019 12:11 AM by MichaelWitcoff.)
09-23-2019 11:30 PM
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MichaelWitcoff Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Writing a novel
@ThotLeader -

Jerry Jenkins has an online workshop thing, he wrote the best selling fiction series of all time (“Lost Behind.”) It’s about $45 per month and he has tons of interviews with other authors and publishers and editors and agents, but I do wish he’d give more one on one in depth feedback.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
09-24-2019 12:22 AM
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Heart Break Kid Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Writing a novel
(09-23-2019 11:30 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  I’m on the same page. If anything I write ever wins a major award, I’ll know my writing is on the wrong track. Just tonight I picked up a Kindle book of award-winning modern fiction and it read like a bunch of fifth-graders’ writing assignments.

What book?
09-26-2019 07:42 AM
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