Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
The God pill
Author Message
MichaelWitcoff Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 955
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 19
Post: #1651
RE: The God pill
Daniel 9, verses 24-27 but there’s some background needed to understand the calculation:

https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/is...e-prophet/

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
12-11-2019 01:28 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like MichaelWitcoff's post:
infowarrior1, Built to Fade
NoMoreTO Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,186
Joined: Jan 2018
Reputation: 17
Post: #1652
RE: The God pill
Catechism Class last week turned to the Sacrament of Matrimony and a lively discussion of the Marital Debt aka 'Access to Relations'

Our FSSP Priest I felt was a little softer than I would have liked with the ladies last week, but he came around this week with clarify - even translating from a French Resource of his.

Quote:When MUST a spouse refuse marital relations ? (Obligation)
Answer: When one is being asked to cooperate with an intrinsically evil act (eg. Pornography, Collaborate with contraception, etc)

Under What Circumstances MAY a spouse refuse marital relations without sinning ?
Answer:
(a) a serious health problem exists.
(b) whenever a husband, out of sloth or pride, does not make a reasonable effort to contribute to the common good of the family, causing much burden to the family (ie. he makes little effort to look for work in order to provide)
(c ) near the end of a pregnancy, out of concern for the child and the mother
(d) during the 2 or 3 weeks after a woman gives birth
(e) at the time of a woman's monthly period
(f) if one's spouse is found guilty of adultery. If they reconcile, however, forgiveness demands a restoration of marital rights.
(g) if a spouse is drunk or under the influence of drugs.
(h) if the request for marital relations is unreasonably frequent, in a relatively short laps of time.
Source: Catechese catholique du marriage 122-124 Noel Barbara
Quote:Marital Debt: 1 Corintians 7:1-5
5. Refusing the Marital Act is a Grave sin against justice: Defraud not one another, except perhaps by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer: and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency.

Seems like a pretty good deal. A lot better than the modern men are getting in their marriages.

On a similar note, if a woman refuses sex and her husband cheats, she actually bears some responsibility. They would both have to go to confession.

For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2019 05:55 PM by NoMoreTO.)
12-11-2019 05:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like NoMoreTO's post:
RoastBeefCurtains4Me, infowarrior1, pitbullowner
MichaelWitcoff Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 955
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 19
Post: #1653
RE: The God pill
Regardless of catechisms, the fact remains that women will refuse sex (or only indulge begrudgingly) with husbands they don’t respect. If you have to appeal to the Bible or the Catechism to get your wife to sleep with you, I’d suggest there’s a problem of leadership and frame somewhere in the marriage as a whole.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
12-11-2019 06:21 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like MichaelWitcoff's post:
infowarrior1, pitbullowner
NoMoreTO Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,186
Joined: Jan 2018
Reputation: 17
Post: #1654
RE: The God pill
(12-11-2019 06:21 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Regardless of catechisms, the fact remains that women will refuse sex (or only indulge begrudgingly) with husbands they don’t respect. If you have to appeal to the Bible or the Catechism to get your wife to sleep with you, I’d suggest there’s a problem of leadership and frame somewhere in the marriage as a whole.

Fair point, but I think it goes to vows and understanding their Faith also. Women no longer see something as a duty but a choice. Women are obedient by default, its just a matter of whether it is to God, Husband, and Family or Corporations, Wine, and their Chihuahua.

Also, consider the other side of the equation. A husband reading this knows what is his right from God. It helps him take a simple frame of 'I am husband, your body is mine', rather than making sure she is in a desirous consensual mood.

For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22
12-11-2019 06:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes NoMoreTO's post:
infowarrior1
MichaelWitcoff Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 955
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 19
Post: #1655
RE: The God pill
I dunno, I’d much prefer that my wife actually desire sex with me than feel obligated or like it’s a duty. I understand why that’s there but still.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
12-11-2019 06:38 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes MichaelWitcoff's post:
infowarrior1
RoastBeefCurtains4Me Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,748
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 29
Post: #1656
RE: The God pill
(12-11-2019 06:21 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  Regardless of catechisms, the fact remains that women will refuse sex (or only indulge begrudgingly) with husbands they don’t respect. If you have to appeal to the Bible or the Catechism to get your wife to sleep with you, I’d suggest there’s a problem of leadership and frame somewhere in the marriage as a whole.

In a healthy culture, having it in the catechism makes a big difference. Modern women dote on their children, would do anything for their pets, knock themselves out for their jobs, but feel no sense of obligation to be loving and sexual towards their husbands. The idea is out there in the culture that a woman should only have sex with her husband if they are turned on and seduced by him. The idea of doing it out of love and nurturing doesn't even compute with them anymore.

Christian teaching tells women their value as a person in general, and before God, is based on how loving they are towards their husbands. Their identity is as a wife, and they sincerely want to be a good wife to be able to think of themselves as good in general. Modern women aggressively scorn this concept.

You have to have the church teaching to even have a chance of the woman being a good wife. Otherwise, as soon as the bloom is off the honeymoon, she'll be taking all your current strengths and contributions for granted, asking herself what you've done for her lately, and then answering to herself, "Nothing".

I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!
-Randy Savage
12-11-2019 06:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 11 users Like RoastBeefCurtains4Me's post:
Enoch, Tail Gunner, Kid Twist, NoMoreTO, infowarrior1, ilostabet, Jones, Enigma, MusicForThePiano, Sankt Michael, Australia Sucks
MichaelWitcoff Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 955
Joined: Jan 2019
Reputation: 19
Post: #1657
RE: The God pill
That’s a fair point for sure. I just think husbands should take the five or tens minutes it takes to get a woman turned on if they desire sex from their wives.

Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity and best-selling author of "On The Masons And Their Lies."
12-11-2019 06:44 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like MichaelWitcoff's post:
infowarrior1, ilostabet, gework
Enoch Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 2,515
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 12
Post: #1658
RE: The God pill
(12-11-2019 06:44 PM)MichaelWitcoff Wrote:  That’s a fair point for sure. I just think husbands should take the five or tens minutes it takes to get a woman turned on if they desire sex from their wives.

There is an extremely strong argument about keeping fit, moving forward professionally, and many other manosphere tested personal improvement pursuits.

However the vast majority of men will be in steady jobs with very little mobility or will cap out at some point in the marriage. To boot they will be kind of boring and ordinary in general. What then? That's where God comes in.
12-11-2019 08:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 10 users Like Enoch's post:
MichaelWitcoff, Tail Gunner, infowarrior1, RoastBeefCurtains4Me, NoMoreTO, Enigma, MusicForThePiano, Sosa, Sankt Michael, Australia Sucks
Wutang Online
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,685
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 43
Post: #1659
RE: The God pill
For any current members in the military, what is the spiritual atmosphere there like? I have a friend who is currently in the army and he said apparently there's tons of atheists. Even the chaplain's assistant that he know is an atheist. When I look at a lot of social media arguments it seems like there's a good portion of military fedora atheists. Is this a widespread thing or is it just because I'm focusing on a specific demographic within the military? ie. the type of people who get into arguments on Twitter and Facebook who also a lot of times tend to be militant atheists.
12-16-2019 09:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
MusicForThePiano Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 396
Joined: May 2019
Reputation: 12
Post: #1660
RE: The God pill
(12-16-2019 09:43 PM)Wutang Wrote:  For any current members in the military, what is the spiritual atmosphere there like? I have a friend who is currently in the army and he said apparently there's tons of atheists. Even the chaplain's assistant that he know is an atheist. When I look at a lot of social media arguments it seems like there's a good portion of military fedora atheists. Is this a widespread thing or is it just because I'm focusing on a specific demographic within the military? ie. the type of people who get into arguments on Twitter and Facebook who also a lot of times tend to be militant atheists.

My brother got out awhile back, there were alot of people who mimicked Epicurean fallacies, ie the Soul dies with the body, or that we all just turn to dust after death, or that they don't believe in the existence of God at all, I met some of these people as well. Surprised they would be willing to lay their life on the line for globohomo knowing they're not going anywhere if they die for it. The phrase "there's never an atheist in a foxhole" doesn't seem to inspire much introspection on one's own mortality these days.

Unfortunately there are a lot of suicides in the military despite them offering "help" or "resources" or all this suicide prevention, when the answer is right in front of them, they have abandoned God, and so have turned away from the only path that would ordain what they do for a living as good (the US Military does not do God's work, it does globohomo's dirty work and takes care of Israel's problems more than Americas) so the natural reaction is a rejection of what you are doing, which most of them cannot do for fear of repercussions or court-martialing, so the weaker ones do the only thing they can, kill themselves. The brave ones CO out when they realize what kind of shit game they're involved in, and they are persecuted greatly for their defiance of doing satan's work.

You can't cheat nature.
12-16-2019 10:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like MusicForThePiano's post:
debeguiled, Samseau
Sherman Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,900
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 16
Post: #1661
RE: The God pill
(12-16-2019 10:41 PM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:43 PM)Wutang Wrote:  For any current members in the military, what is the spiritual atmosphere there like? I have a friend who is currently in the army and he said apparently there's tons of atheists. Even the chaplain's assistant that he know is an atheist. When I look at a lot of social media arguments it seems like there's a good portion of military fedora atheists. Is this a widespread thing or is it just because I'm focusing on a specific demographic within the military? ie. the type of people who get into arguments on Twitter and Facebook who also a lot of times tend to be militant atheists.

My brother got out awhile back, there were alot of people who mimicked Epicurean fallacies, ie the Soul dies with the body, or that we all just turn to dust after death, or that they don't believe in the existence of God at all, I met some of these people as well. Surprised they would be willing to lay their life on the line for globohomo knowing they're not going anywhere if they die for it. The phrase "there's never an atheist in a foxhole" doesn't seem to inspire much introspection on one's own mortality these days.

Unfortunately there are a lot of suicides in the military despite them offering "help" or "resources" or all this suicide prevention, when the answer is right in front of them, they have abandoned God, and so have turned away from the only path that would ordain what they do for a living as good (the US Military does not do God's work, it does globohomo's dirty work and takes care of Israel's problems more than Americas) so the natural reaction is a rejection of what you are doing, which most of them cannot do for fear of repercussions or court-martialing, so the weaker ones do the only thing they can, kill themselves. The brave ones CO out when they realize what kind of shit game they're involved in, and they are persecuted greatly for their defiance of doing satan's work.

In the ancient world, the afterlife was considered a very dreary and depressing place. Everyone went to the underworld whether they were good or bad. It wasn't a happy place for anyone. Maybe if you were a great warrior you would go to the Elysian Fields. In that context, Epicureanism was actually considered the "good news", that as soon as you die your elements disassemble and you are no more. The underlying motivation for Democritus developing the idea of the "atom" was to give people hope that they wouldn't suffer after they die. To people raised in a Christian culture, they actually see Epicureanism as threatening - a totally different interpretation based on context.

Rico... Sauve....
12-17-2019 12:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Sherman's post:
RoastBeefCurtains4Me
Athanasius Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 524
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 7
Post: #1662
RE: The God pill
Speaking as a guy who's been married for a long time... Women deny an obligation to give their husbands sex are denying the Scripture and simply not loving or submitting to their husbands. That doesn't mean they have to always "feel like it."

Different people have different libidos. A woman may want sex once a week. A husband may want it 3 times. Sometimes, life being what it is, the husband wants something quick and it's duty sex for the woman. Sometimes what starts out that way ends another. And sometimes it's fun for all from the beginning. There are different games you can play that mix it up. This is how it goes in a marathon.

Frequency is something to talk about with your prospective wife, but moreso, you just want an attitude of willing submission, just as she should want a man who will love her, protect her, and have her respect. When you have that desire to submit, it bleeds over into the sexual area. When you have two sinful people but both desire to fulfill their roles (man loves wife, wife submits to husband), everything goes more smoothly.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 01:04 AM by Athanasius.)
12-17-2019 01:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Athanasius's post:
debeguiled, RoastBeefCurtains4Me, MichaelWitcoff
MusicForThePiano Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 396
Joined: May 2019
Reputation: 12
Post: #1663
RE: The God pill
(12-17-2019 12:19 AM)Sherman Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:41 PM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:43 PM)Wutang Wrote:  For any current members in the military, what is the spiritual atmosphere there like? I have a friend who is currently in the army and he said apparently there's tons of atheists. Even the chaplain's assistant that he know is an atheist. When I look at a lot of social media arguments it seems like there's a good portion of military fedora atheists. Is this a widespread thing or is it just because I'm focusing on a specific demographic within the military? ie. the type of people who get into arguments on Twitter and Facebook who also a lot of times tend to be militant atheists.

My brother got out awhile back, there were alot of people who mimicked Epicurean fallacies, ie the Soul dies with the body, or that we all just turn to dust after death, or that they don't believe in the existence of God at all, I met some of these people as well. Surprised they would be willing to lay their life on the line for globohomo knowing they're not going anywhere if they die for it. The phrase "there's never an atheist in a foxhole" doesn't seem to inspire much introspection on one's own mortality these days.

Unfortunately there are a lot of suicides in the military despite them offering "help" or "resources" or all this suicide prevention, when the answer is right in front of them, they have abandoned God, and so have turned away from the only path that would ordain what they do for a living as good (the US Military does not do God's work, it does globohomo's dirty work and takes care of Israel's problems more than Americas) so the natural reaction is a rejection of what you are doing, which most of them cannot do for fear of repercussions or court-martialing, so the weaker ones do the only thing they can, kill themselves. The brave ones CO out when they realize what kind of shit game they're involved in, and they are persecuted greatly for their defiance of doing satan's work.

In the ancient world, the afterlife was considered a very dreary and depressing place. Everyone went to the underworld whether they were good or bad. It wasn't a happy place for anyone. Maybe if you were a great warrior you would go to the Elysian Fields. In that context, Epicureanism was actually considered the "good news", that as soon as you die your elements disassemble and you are no more. The underlying motivation for Democritus developing the idea of the "atom" was to give people hope that they wouldn't suffer after they die. To people raised in a Christian culture, they actually see Epicureanism as threatening - a totally different interpretation based on context.

Epicurus also espoused the doctrine that pleasure- defined in terms of serenity, the absence of pain and passion- is the highest human good. There is nothing special about denying the immortality of the soul, whether from a Christian point of view or that of a neener-neener ancient philosopher mislead, which is basically atheism. Yes the afterlife would be a dreary place for any soul back then, they had no light to guide them, and few made it to the realm of virtuous pagans.

You can't cheat nature.
12-17-2019 05:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Wutang Online
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,685
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 43
Post: #1664
RE: The God pill
(12-16-2019 10:41 PM)MusicForThePiano Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:43 PM)Wutang Wrote:  For any current members in the military, what is the spiritual atmosphere there like? I have a friend who is currently in the army and he said apparently there's tons of atheists. Even the chaplain's assistant that he know is an atheist. When I look at a lot of social media arguments it seems like there's a good portion of military fedora atheists. Is this a widespread thing or is it just because I'm focusing on a specific demographic within the military? ie. the type of people who get into arguments on Twitter and Facebook who also a lot of times tend to be militant atheists.

My brother got out awhile back, there were alot of people who mimicked Epicurean fallacies, ie the Soul dies with the body, or that we all just turn to dust after death, or that they don't believe in the existence of God at all, I met some of these people as well. Surprised they would be willing to lay their life on the line for globohomo knowing they're not going anywhere if they die for it. The phrase "there's never an atheist in a foxhole" doesn't seem to inspire much introspection on one's own mortality these days.

I noticed a lot of these people also tend to be midwestern and tend to have a lifestyle that is more associated with people that are religious. These aren't vegan soy eaters who go to musicals. If you look at the profile's you'll see stuff about guns, hunting, dunking on liberals and even some red pill related stuff sometimes. I'm wondering if these people are reacting to the religious atmosphere in their environments and are pushing against it in the same way that people like us are reacting against the secular globohomo environments we find ourselves in.

My other theory is that a lot of these people come from places that have been hit the hardest by globohomo changes and have become nihilistic and distrusting of all different of any sort of ideal whether it be religious or secular. The impression I get from talking to my friend who was talking about the high amounts of atheism among the soldiers he knows is that there is a lot of distrust of the organization that employs them, the military. He described having more anarchist leanings after joining the army. He also talks about how incompetent the higher ups are when it comes to managing anything (he is an NCO himself). The general vibe I get is all pervasive cynicism which I'm assuming is also diminishing belief in God.
12-17-2019 10:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Wutang's post:
Emperor Constantine, infowarrior1
Kid Twist Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,163
Joined: Jan 2016
Post: #1665
RE: The God pill
^Institutional distrust and demise is a common theme worldwide --- has been for several decades now.
12-17-2019 11:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Wutang Online
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,685
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 43
Post: #1666
RE: The God pill
Do you think that's also related to the big uptick in atheism with younger generations?
12-17-2019 11:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Wutang's post:
Kid Twist
Athanasius Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 524
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 7
Post: #1667
RE: The God pill
(12-17-2019 11:29 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Do you think that's also related to the big uptick in atheism with younger generations?

There probably is relationship there. People in membership organizations everywhere will tell you that they are seeing declines. It's not just churches (particularly mainline ones), but also groups with dues-payers. People just want to be lone atoms poking around on their phone.

However, I think the biggest push for atheism is (a) a philosophy that lets them do what they want, or (b) bitterness at life (e.g. absent father). And they don't mind borrowing Christian concepts like morality since there is no basis for any such common morality in an atheist system.
12-18-2019 12:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Sherman Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,900
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 16
Post: #1668
RE: The God pill
(12-18-2019 12:12 AM)Athanasius Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:29 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Do you think that's also related to the big uptick in atheism with younger generations?

There probably is relationship there. People in membership organizations everywhere will tell you that they are seeing declines. It's not just churches (particularly mainline ones), but also groups with dues-payers. People just want to be lone atoms poking around on their phone.

However, I think the biggest push for atheism is (a) a philosophy that lets them do what they want, or (b) bitterness at life (e.g. absent father). And they don't mind borrowing Christian concepts like morality since there is no basis for any such common morality in an atheist system.

The Ancient Greek philosophers developed the highest systems of morality based on reason. They chose reason as the path to morality, because the Greek gods were highly immoral. The philosophers were the ancient world's equivalent of saints. Apollonius of Tyana was a wandering philosopher saint that most likely was alive at the same time as Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Ap...s_of_Tyana

Rico... Sauve....
12-18-2019 09:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Wutang Online
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,685
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 43
Post: #1669
RE: The God pill
(12-18-2019 12:12 AM)Athanasius Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:29 PM)Wutang Wrote:  Do you think that's also related to the big uptick in atheism with younger generations?

However, I think the biggest push for atheism is (a) a philosophy that lets them do what they want, or (b) bitterness at life (e.g. absent father). And they don't mind borrowing Christian concepts like morality since there is no basis for any such common morality in an atheist system.

Nietzsche talked about this: how a lot of these enlightened cultured Europeans wanted to to continue to have their humanistic morality while destroying the foundations (Christianity) that gave birth to it and sustained it. He was an arch-atheist himself but he would have nothing but disdain for the Redditt atheists that you see today.

The common answer I typically see atheists of these sort give to people who ask them what supports their "be kind to everyone" morality is that it's simply the right thing to do and why wouldn't you want to act like that with the limited time we have. If anyone informs them about the people who don't want to go along with the program and who thinks the best thing in life is to see their enemies driven before them and hear the lamentations of the women they typically will respond that these sort of people have to be kept locked up for the good of the rest of society. I've seen this sort of reply from prominent atheists like Sam Harris and John Loftus (a former pastor that now makes his living being a minor celebrity in the atheist cottage industry) and their followers who like to see themselves as lovers of reason. Yes the type of people who think reason can provide the basis for everything ultimately thinks that their most cherished beliefs are based on acts of will and power (ie. using the power of the state to lock up people who threaten the sort of society they want) while accusing their religious opponents of not acting on reason.

These people have been so soaked in Christian morality without realizing it. They have no idea where these moral instincts came from yet they continue to push them forward but without any of the foundational support which explains a lot of the incoherence in their positions. Here's a review of a book on the effects of Christianity on how the west thinks; written by someone who isn't exactly supportive of Christian morality but at the same time has no patience for people who push it who realizing where it came from

https://www.newstatesman.com/dominion-ma...and-review

Quote:The liberal West is a creation of the Christian religion, and continues to assert that its values are universal even though it has rejected the faith that inspired them:

Christianity, it seemed, had no need of actual Christians for its assumptions still to flourish… The trace elements of Christianity continued to infuse people’s morals and presumptions so utterly that many failed even to detect their presence. Like dust particles so fine as to be invisible to the naked eye, they were breathed in equally by everyone: believers, atheists and those who never paused to think about religion.

Tom Holland the authors talks about his youthful fascination with Greco-Roman culture and his eventual disillusion with it. He started to realize that a lot of the values he holds dear as modern western liberal were in opposition to classical Greco-Roman values:

Quote: He tells us his view of Christianity changed as a result of his study of the ancient world. As a teenager, he was like many others in seeing the biblical God as “the po-faced enemy of liberty and fun”. When he read Edward Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776), he was happy to accept that the triumph of Christianity meant “an ‘age of superstition and credulity’”. Unlike many, Holland did not stay stuck in a posture of adolescent scorn for the religion in which he had been reared. Twenty years of reading and writing about classical antiquity wore away his youthful admiration for pagan culture.

Caesar killed a million Gauls and enslaved a million more. Across the Roman world, wailing infants could be found on the roadside, on rubbish heaps or in drains, left there to perish. Female infants who were rescued would be raised as slaves or sold to brothels. It wasn’t simply Roman callousness that Holland was repelled by. It was “the complete lack of any sense that the poor or the weak might have the slightest intrinsic value”. His values were not those of classical civilisation, he realised, still less of “human nature”. They were the values of the modern West’s Christian past.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 11:19 AM by Wutang.)
12-18-2019 11:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 7 users Like Wutang's post:
debeguiled, Tail Gunner, MichaelWitcoff, HermeticAlly, infowarrior1, Samseau, Sankt Michael
Sherman Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,900
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 16
Post: #1670
RE: The God pill
Christianity didn't seem to improve the behavior of rulers. Emperor Constantine murdered his son and his wife. And when his sons took over they continued to murder each other to get power. And many of the European Christian kings made Julius Caesar look like a nice guy. But Julius Caesar was also known for frequently forgiving his enemies. Augustus Caesar began the grain dole which makes him more sympathetic to the poor than some Republicans. The Christians did get rid of the gladiator games thanks to one monk, but chariot racing continued until the 15th century in the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Rome). Ultimately, if a ruler is a real tyrant he doesn't last long and rarely leaves a legacy. What has Attila the Hun left? Or the Mongols? Julius Caesar left an empire and gave us our calendar. His decisons still affect us today.

https://fee.org/articles/poor-relief-in-ancient-rome/

Rico... Sauve....
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 04:52 PM by Sherman.)
12-18-2019 04:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Sherman's post:
RoastBeefCurtains4Me
Kid Twist Offline
Banned

Posts: 3,163
Joined: Jan 2016
Post: #1671
RE: The God pill
You're being too one dimensional and looking at rulers, and only at specific acts and portions of their lives. And still, most rulers are in fact not benevolent. Christianity as a religion gave more to the world than any other, and yet even its good things are often good things taken too far at this point: freedom, egalitarianism, science, etc.

I bet you are a fan, or I should hope Sherman, of Epictetus:

"That alone is in our power, which is our own work; and in this class are our opinions, impulses, desires, and aversions. What, on the contrary, is not in our power, are our bodies, possessions, glory, and power. Any delusion on this point leads to the greatest errors, misfortunes, and troubles, and to the slavery of the soul."

He had many amazing sayings and what's more, acted his teachings out. Born a slave, he even said, "Wealth consists in not having great possessions, but having few wants."

Also, "He is a wise man, who does not grieve for things which he has not, but rejoices for the things which he has."


These also remind me of the beautiful saying of St. John Chrysostom:

"A rich man is not one who has much, but one who gives much. For what he gives away, remains his forever."
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 09:24 PM by Kid Twist.)
12-18-2019 09:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Kid Twist's post:
infowarrior1, Samseau, Australia Sucks
Wutang Online
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,685
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 43
Post: #1672
RE: The God pill
https://larryalextaunton.com/2019/12/top...d-history/

The Bible, God (by proxy, of course)

Progressives hate this, but the extraordinary influence of the Bible on history – and Western civilization in particular – is undeniable. The Bible gave rise to Western law, government, art, literature, and science. According to sociologist and Pulitzer Prize-nominee Rodney Stark, because the West believed in a God of logic and order, they believed his creation was likewise logical and orderly and should be explored, subdued, and studied. Writes Stark: “Most non-Christian religions do not posit a creation at all … it is without beginning or purpose, and, most important of all, having never been created, it has no Creator. Consequently, the universe is thought to be a supreme mystery, inconsistent, unpredictable, and arbitrary.

For those holding these religious premises, the path to wisdom is through meditation and mystical insights, and there is no occasion to celebrate reason.” Eminent mathematician, philosopher, and agnostic Alfred North Whitehead is again instructive here on what set the West apart: “When we compare the tone of thought in Europe with the attitude of other civilizations when left to themselves, there seems but one source of its origin. It must come from the Medieval insistence on the rationality of God.” This faith in rationality catapulted the West ahead of the rest of the world culturally, militarily, technologically, and economically. So intrinsic is Christianity to the fabric of the West, wrote T.S. Eliot, that “It is against a background of Christianity that all of our thought has significance. An individual European may not believe that the Christian faith is true, and yet what he says, and makes, and does will all spring out of his heritage of Christian culture and depend upon that culture for its meaning.… I do not believe the culture of Europe could survive the complete disappearance of the Christian faith. And I am convinced of that, not merely because I am a Christian myself, but as a student of social biology. If Christianity goes, the whole culture goes.”
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2019 05:09 PM by Wutang.)
12-19-2019 05:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 8 users Like Wutang's post:
sonoran_, Tail Gunner, NoMoreTO, gework, infowarrior1, Samseau, Sankt Michael, Built to Fade
Sherman Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,900
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 16
Post: #1673
RE: The God pill
Christianity seems to be a mixture of Jewish mysticism with Greek rationality. The New Testment was written in Greek by obviously highly educated people. This had its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage was that the Christians could come up with a unified coherent system, whereas the pagans were always ambiguous and all over the place about their beliefs. The disadvantage is that Christians were willing to kill each other over silly pedantic differences. Even Emperor Constantine was upset about this because it was ruining his one god one empire plan. Constantine as well as previous emperors were already moving towards one god with Sol Invictus. Constantine is the one who forced Christian unity. Does anyone still believe the "filioque" is a meaningful distinction to divide on? It's also interesting that Japan has fit in with the Christian western values even though they are Shinto and Christian conversions in Japan have been negligible.

Rico... Sauve....
(This post was last modified: 12-20-2019 03:01 PM by Sherman.)
12-20-2019 02:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Sherman's post:
Australia Sucks
Emperor Constantine Offline
Robin
*

Posts: 183
Joined: May 2019
Reputation: 2
Post: #1674
RE: The God pill
(12-20-2019 02:47 PM)Sherman Wrote:  Constantine is the one who forced Christian unity.

I think a better way to phrase that would be: Constantine tried to create Christian unity, with mixed success.

(12-20-2019 02:47 PM)Sherman Wrote:  Does anyone still believe the "filioque" is a meaningful distinction to divide on?


Yes, myself included. The question of who God is seems a bit more important than the specifics of church organization, divorce/annulment, or pretty much anything else that separates the various groups of Christians.
12-20-2019 07:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Emperor Constantine's post:
FilipSRB
HermeticAlly Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 428
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 8
Post: #1675
RE: The God pill
(12-20-2019 02:47 PM)Sherman Wrote:  The disadvantage is that Christians were willing to kill each other over silly pedantic differences. Even Emperor Constantine was upset about this because it was ruining his one god one empire plan. Constantine as well as previous emperors were already moving towards one god with Sol Invictus. Constantine is the one who forced Christian unity. Does anyone still believe the "filioque" is a meaningful distinction to divide on? It's also interesting that Japan has fit in with the Christian western values even though they are Shinto and Christian conversions in Japan have been negligible.

There's a massive difference between Christian church leaders and political figures like Constantine who were using Christianity to further their goals. I wouldn't take much of anything emperors did as reflective of what Christians actually believed at the time.

There was no Christians "killing each other over silly pedantic differences" in the early Church, they were too busy trying to not get killed by the Roman rules pre-Constantine. Now later on, like during the Protestant reformation - that's a different story. (Though there were certainly heretics like Arius early on, trying to promote beliefs that ran contrary to the Church's orthodoxy.)

Japan is superficially similar to Western social values, but once you spend some time in the culture you see that the underlying motivation is totally different (mostly originating in peer-based fear and guilt to push social conformity.)
12-21-2019 09:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like HermeticAlly's post:
NoMoreTO, debeguiled
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: Wutang, 3 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication