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The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
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Roosh Offline
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The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Much of it comes from the tithing of parishioners. By comparison, the Catholic Church has $50 billion (according to a graphic in the article). Turns out that the Mormons have one of the biggest funds in the world.

I'm skeptical of material blessings, so I wonder what sacrifice the Mormons had to make in order to amass such wealth.

Quote:For more than half a century, the Mormon Church quietly built one of the world’s largest investment funds. Almost no one outside the church knew about it.

Some of that mystery evaporated late last year when a former employee revealed in a whistleblower complaint with the Internal Revenue Service that the fund, called Ensign Peak Advisors, had stockpiled $100 billion. The whistleblower also alleged that the church had improperly used some Ensign Peak funds. Officials of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, colloquially known as the Mormon Church, denied those claims.

They also declined to comment on how much money their investment fund controls. “We’ve tried to be somewhat anonymous,” Roger Clarke, the head of Ensign Peak, said from the firm’s fourth-floor office, above a Salt Lake City food court. Ensign Peak doesn’t appear in that building’s directory.

Interviews with more than a dozen former employees and business partners provide a deeper look inside an organization that ballooned from a shoestring operation in the 1990s into a behemoth rivaling Wall Street’s largest firms.

Its assets did total roughly $80 billion to $100 billion as of last year, some of the former employees said. That is at least double the size of Harvard University’s endowment and as large as the size of SoftBank’s Vision Fund, the world’s largest tech-investment fund. Its holdings include $40 billion of U.S. stock, timberland in the Florida panhandle and investments in prominent hedge funds such as Bridgewater Associates LP, according to some current and former fund employees.

Church officials acknowledged the size of the fund is a tightly held secret, which they said was because Ensign Peak depends on donations—known as tithing—from the church’s 16 million world-wide members. The church is under no legal obligation to publicly report its finances.

But the whistleblower report—filed by David Nielsen, a former Ensign Peak portfolio manager—has heaped pressure on the church to be more transparent about its finances, something the church has avoided for decades.

The firm doesn’t tell business partners how much money it manages, an unusual practice on Wall Street. Ensign Peak employees sign lifetime confidentiality agreements. Most current employees are no longer told the firm’s total assets under management, according to some of the former employees; few employees understand what the money is intended for.

In their first-ever interview about Ensign Peak’s operations, Mr. Clarke and church officials who oversee the firm said it was a rainy-day account to be used in difficult economic times. As the church continues to grow in poorer areas of the world like Africa, where members cannot donate as much, it will need Ensign Peak’s holdings to help fund basic operations, they said.

“We don’t know when the next 2008 is going to take place,” said Christopher Waddell, a member of the ecclesiastical arm that oversees Ensign Peak known as the presiding bishopric. Referring to the economic crash 12 years ago, he added, “If something like that were to happen again, we won’t have to stop missionary work.”

During the last financial crisis, they didn’t touch the reserves Ensign Peak had amassed, church officials said. Instead, the church cut the budget.

A former employee and the whistleblower in his report said they heard Mr. Clarke refer to the second coming of Jesus Christ as part of the reason for Ensign Peak’s existence. Mormons believe before Jesus returns, there will be a period of war and hardship.

Mr. Clarke said the employees must have misunderstood his meaning. “We believe at some point the savior will return. Nobody knows when,” he said.

When the second coming happens, “we don’t have any idea whether financial assets will have any value at all,” he added. “The issue is what happens before that, not at the second coming.”

Whereas university endowments generally subsidize operating costs with investment income, Ensign Peak does the opposite. Annual donations from the church’s members more than covers the church’s budget. The surplus goes to Ensign Peak. Members of the religion must give 10% of their income each year to remain in good standing.

Dean Davies, another member of the ecclesiastical arm that oversees Ensign Peak, said the church doesn’t publicly share its assets because “these funds are sacred” and “we don’t flaunt them for public review and critique.”

Mr. Clarke said he believed church leaders were concerned that public knowledge of the fund’s wealth might discourage tithing.

“Paying tithing is more of a sense of commitment than it is the church needing the money,” Mr. Clarke said. “So they never wanted to be in a position where people felt like, you know, they shouldn’t make a contribution.”


Some members are now asking why details about the fund have been tightly held for so long, what the money is for, and whether tithing so much to the church should still be the standard practice.

Carolyn Homer, a church member who lives in Virginia, resolved to tithe less and give more to other charities after she heard about the money managed by Ensign Peak. A theme of the Book of Mormon, she said, is that God condemns churches that care more about wealth than feeding the poor. “When I hear members of the church say, ‘It’s none of your business how wealthy we are,’ that to me is echoing the very scripture we revere, and not in a good way.”

The church officials and Mr. Clarke declined to disclose the size of the church’s annual budget or to say how much money goes to Ensign Peak but gave estimates for its main areas of expenditure that, collectively, total about $5 billion.

A majority of the money held by Ensign Peak is from returns on existing investments and not member donations, according to Mr. Clarke. In recent years, the fund has gained about 7% annually, he said.

The former employees offered more details of Ensign Peak’s operations. During the bull market of the last decade, some of them said, the fund grew from about $40 billion in 2012 to $60 billion in 2014 to around $100 billion by 2019. About 70% of the money is liquid, one of the former employees said. As its assets swelled, Ensign Peak grew more secretive, said some of the former employees.

The firm doesn’t borrow money–the church warns members against going into debt. It also doesn’t invest in industries that Mormons consider objectionable—including alcohol, caffeinated beverages, tobacco and gambling. Mr. Clarke said the fund has pulled some of its money from an investment firm called Fisher Investments after firm founder Ken Fisher made remarks last year that Mr. Fisher, in a newspaper column, called “inappropriate.” A spokesman for Fisher declined to comment.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mormon-...1581138011

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02-08-2020 01:37 PM
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Post: #2
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
If only Government funds could be based on tithing instead of runaway taxation...
Suggestion; Let the Mormons handle State finances from now on.

We will stomp to the top with the wind in our teeth.

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(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 01:41 PM by Johnnyvee.)
02-08-2020 01:41 PM
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paninaro Offline
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
The Catholic church expects tithing also, but doesn't really enforce it or check up on it.

The guy who filed the complaint stands to make a fortune. If that fund loses its non-profit status and the IRS determines taxes are due for fraudulently misrepresenting as a non-profit, the whisteblower gets a % of the take. It would probably be the largest whistleblower payout ever.

But such a complicated case like this will spend years in litigation, so it'll be a long time until we see the final outcome.
02-08-2020 02:26 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
I know that Mormon individuals have quite a few business dealings in nearby Las Vegas (if you view Salt Lake City as the Mormon epicenter). It would be interesting to know more about the extent of these dealings, since maybe there is a connection between the rising wealth of the Mormon Church and the simoultaneous growth of Las Vegas.

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02-08-2020 02:38 PM
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Repo Offline
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Post: #5
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Keep in mind the Catholic church has been around a hell of alot longer than the Mormon church
02-08-2020 02:45 PM
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kel Online
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons keep their money in their community, which is smart. Leaving aside questions of how honorable a mandatory tithing system is, that the church uses a Mormon investment vehicle for that money is so obviously a good idea that many religions, groups, communities, and countries wouldn't do it.
02-08-2020 05:32 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
I don't know if they still do, but the LDS have traditionally been aggressive about tithing once you get a temple recommend. An elder would actually check your tax statement to ensure you were doing so. The works-based element of that religion it is also there. It's definitely made them quite wealthy, and as such, a target for subversives who want those assets. They have been getting increasingly wobbly on homosexuality.

In evangelical and confessional Christianity, tithing is generally practiced by more devout believers.
02-08-2020 06:02 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Not only do Mormons tithe, they also seem to encourage each other to be hardworking, economically productive people. It makes sense that their church has accrued a lot of wealth.
02-08-2020 06:42 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons are tribal in some ways but will let pretty much anyone join their religion. The thing that separates them from the ‘usual suspects’ is that the MC promotes things that are good for society, such as no sex before marriage, traditional gender roles, health and fitness, productivity, family values and having a lot of kids, while not trying to subvert nations (one could argue here the high number of Mormons in gov alphabet agencies such as CIA/FBI but I don’t know too much about that.) I suppose some here would call their religion blasphemy and damn them all to hell, but up until the recent stuff with the gays they have been pretty steadfast in not falling to globohomo. I suspect some insider nefarity; they have become a target of the globohomo conglomerate. Expect tons of negative press on the MC in the near future.
02-08-2020 06:46 PM
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Transsimian Offline
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Meanwhile synagogues charge substantial flatrate membership fees, along with charging tickets for high holidays.

One welcomes all, and the other pushes away the poor. Who gets the WSJ hitpiece?

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02-08-2020 06:59 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Definition of opportunity cost: A benefit, profit, or value of something that must be given up to acquire or achieve something else.

Let’s say you have the choice of doing $100 billion worth of charitable work in the world or, um, just keeping the money. Isn’t that what’s happening here? Keeping the money comes at the opportunity cost of helping someone right now. That’s $100 billion worth of looking the other way here and now.

“If something like that were to happen again, we won’t have to stop missionary work.” So, you keep the money and ignore people in need right now in case something happens down the road? This is supposed to be a faith-based organization. If the good Lord wants you to do missionary work in the face of some economic collapse, I’m sure He will provide the means. Conversely, hoarding money appears to be a faithless gesture.
02-08-2020 07:02 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
One thing I do admire about the Mormons, though: They've been discriminated against as much as any group in the US has been. They were literally kicked out of the developed part of the country and exiled to Utah. But rather than wallow in victimhood and self pity, they worked hard, promoted good values, and were able to make their church such a wealthy and successful organization. I think a lot of today's other victim groups that incessantly cry discrimination all the time could learn a thing or two by following their example. A lot of Mormon theology seems pretty far out there to me, at least by mainstream Christian standards, but I've always respected their values.
02-08-2020 09:18 PM
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Paracelsus Offline
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
(02-08-2020 02:45 PM)Repo Wrote:  Keep in mind the Catholic church has been around a hell of alot longer than the Mormon church

And that the 50 billion valuation often includes stuff of which I'd say is debatable whether it's Church property or the Church is its custodian, or rather where the valuation is questionable as against the cost of its upkeep.

How much money does the Catholic Church make out of St. Peter's Basilica, for example?

Fair enough, there is the tourist element, of which thousands go through every year. Before you could fairly (and I'm sure we're all about fair judgment here) judge how much money the Church "makes" on the place, what is the cost of its upkeep? The place has been standing for five hundred years. Wikipedia says its cost of construction was 46,800,062 ducats, which -- as a very, very rough rule of thumb -- was about 1 ounce of near-pure gold. Current gold price is about $1,570 US, which would mean it cost the Church roughly $73,476,097,340, i.e. 73 billion on today's prices to build the place in rough terms. I haven't gone deeply into how industry estimates the cost of maintaining buildings over a lifespan, but even if it's a smallish percentage per year that amounts to a lot of cash just to keep the place standing.

And that's only St. Peter's. There are dozens if not hundreds of churches just inside Vatican City, let alone its museums, let alone the church structures around the world that the Catholic Church as an overall body maintains. And I'd argue especially in the Vatican that half of these, and the artworks inside, and the other artworks the Church holds, are museum pieces, i.e. they cost more to keep than profit they bring in, especially now that the camelfucker hordes are slowly soaking the Italian peninsula and making tourism less safe.

Again, I'm not querying that the amount of money said to be held is large, I just query how much value it actually amounts to when you subtract the cost of holding it ... remembering that paying the cost of holding it also keeps people in jobs too.

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02-08-2020 09:38 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
(02-08-2020 06:59 PM)Transsimian Wrote:  Meanwhile synagogues charge substantial flatrate membership fees, along with charging tickets for high holidays.

One welcomes all, and the other pushes away the poor. Who gets the WSJ hitpiece?

Don't Mormons allows only Mormons, and only with a recommendation from an elder, to enter a Mormon temple? I believe meetinghouses are open to all but not the temples.

I find both charging fees (synagogues) and limiting who can enter (Mormons) a bit strange, if the goal is to spread the word and make it accessible to all.
02-08-2020 09:42 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons are expected to have one year's food put away as a hedge against famine and poverty. This investment fund seems like something along the same lines.

Obviously they took money out of general funds to contribute to this fund, but the current sum is the result of long term savings and reinvestment. I doubt they've put back an excessive portion of any year's contributions. It sounds like they're a little surprised to find themselves with so much.

It's only prudent for them to have a large savings fund. They probably feel they should have enough for the Mormon people to weather a truly serious collapse of the American economy, or even of the government. That would seem in keeping with their history. They probably want enough to fund the Army of Deseret if it were ever needed.

At some point, they will have to feel they have enough set aside for a rainy day, and start thinking how they can use the money to increase the kingdom of God.

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(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 09:51 PM by RoastBeefCurtains4Me.)
02-08-2020 09:43 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
(02-08-2020 09:38 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Again, I'm not querying that the amount of money said to be held is large, I just query how much value it actually amounts to when you subtract the cost of holding it ... remembering that paying the cost of holding it also keeps people in jobs too.

Where I live in the US, some of the Catholic churches are having trouble paying for even basic maintenance like fixing the air conditioners or repairing the roof. Two of them have shut down their parochial schools, because the enrollment numbers were going down and tuition wasn't sufficient to cover the costs.

So maybe the Catholic church is sitting on all this money, but if they can't even keep their schools open and roofs maintained in some places, then they're not spending it that well.
02-08-2020 09:45 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
The unseemly number of Mormons working for the deep state through the intelligence agencies tells the story.

I'm not a numbers guy but I very much doubt you can amass 100 billion simply with tithing from a few million people plus smart investment.

The average Mormon is probably a very nice person and completely well meaning but the leadership is deep state and that's where the massive returns on those minor investment funds come in. These are the guys that funded Facebook and wiped out the competition along the way. They can easily tell you which horse to back. Meanwhile the rank and file will simply see it as God's favor.

There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world generating that 50 billion in assets leading to a per-Catholic rate of 41 bucks.

There are 14.8 million Mormon's sitting under that 100 billion in assets leading to a per-Mormon rate of 6750 bucks.

It's worth noting that the Catholic Church ministers to a lot of extremely poor regions which is an enormous money sink. I highly doubt there are any Mormon ministries running at a loss.

Meanwhile that 41 bucks per parishioner for the Catholics in my neck of the woods wouldn't even add up to enough to buy the paint needed to recoat the local church much less the labor. 50 billion sounds like a big number but as you can see it spreads pretty thin over that much territory.

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(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 10:16 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
02-08-2020 10:13 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
It's easy to grow that sort of money with diligent fleecing of your worshipers. Mormons all work. I've never seen a Mormon or LDS type not having some sort of productive employment. Tossing up 6-7k is not all that much. We here in the West find it hard to believe because we see our taxes get sent upwards and wasted versus saved and smartly invested. What I want to know is which bank is holding these funds for them, as of course there is a bank somewhere getting a cut of this cash pot through fees.
02-08-2020 10:41 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
The median household income in Utah is $71,414, so if Mormons are giving 10% of their household income to the church, the church can get to $100bln pretty easily.
02-08-2020 10:51 PM
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RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
(02-08-2020 10:13 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  The unseemly number of Mormons working for the deep state through the intelligence agencies tells the story.

I'm not a numbers guy but I very much doubt you can amass 100 billion simply with tithing from a few million people plus smart investment.

The average Mormon is probably a very nice person and completely well meaning but the leadership is deep state and that's where the massive returns on those minor investment funds come in. These are the guys that funded Facebook and wiped out the competition along the way. They can easily tell you which horse to back. Meanwhile the rank and file will simply see it as God's favor.

There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world generating that 50 billion in assets leading to a per-Catholic rate of 41 bucks.

There are 14.8 million Mormon's sitting under that 100 billion in assets leading to a per-Mormon rate of 6750 bucks.

It's worth noting that the Catholic Church ministers to a lot of extremely poor regions which is an enormous money sink. I highly doubt there are any Mormon ministries running at a loss.

Meanwhile that 41 bucks per parishioner for the Catholics in my neck of the woods wouldn't even add up to enough to buy the paint needed to recoat the local church much less the labor. 50 billion sounds like a big number but as you can see it spreads pretty thin over that much territory.

The Mormons are a Freemason sort-of-Christian sect. But part of their success is due to Protestant work-ethic. Though they are socially conservative even if they follow globalism for thee - non-globalism social policies for me.

The Catholic church for example is worth trillions and not billions. The 50 bio. $ is the liquid reserve. The Catholic church real estate is easily worth 1000+ billions - could even be 5000 billion. But that is hardly increasing except in some African countries and partly in China. However - it depends on the local followers to be able to upkeep the real estate holdings of the Catholic church. Currently the pope there including a lot of the leadership is on a suicide course. I personally expect the Catholic church to become weaker and pooer in the coming decades - possibly even go into freefall once the first openly gay/transgender pope gets elected who will gift Muslims thousands of barely used churches.

The Mormons in a way are similar to the Jewish tribe - they will survive even if the Mormons are hardly as insidious as the top Jewry. You can become Mormon any day and they accept you into their fold.
02-09-2020 05:15 AM
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Post: #21
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons are something like Scientologists, Jehovah's Witnesses or any other American televangelist megachurch, being obsessed with material wealth, fleecing their members to the max and isolating their members from the world. They just happen to be more successful at it.

Is that a price worth paying for (allegedly) chaste women? I don't know, but just like in the case of Islam, I suspect that it isn't.

As far as Catholic Church's "immense wealth", I recommend this excellent article:

Quote:"The Vatican is Too Rich!"

Catholics get this sort of thing thrown at them all the time: "The Vatican is too wealthy! It should sell everything and give it to the poor or send it to Africa or something!"

People who say such a thing have no clue what they're talking about. My challenge:

Go to Google
Type in "Net worth of"
Follow the above with the word "Vatican"
Do as above, but replace "Vatican" with "Mark Zuckerberg"
Do as above, but replace "Zuckerbgerg" with "Bill Gates"
Do as above, but replace "Bill Gates" with "James Simon"
Do as above, but replace "James Simon" with "Len Blavatnik"
Do as above, but replace "Len Blavatnik" with "Warren Buffet"
Do as above, but replace "Warren Buffet" with "George Soros"
Do as above, but replace "George Soros" with "Rothschild"
Do as above, but replace "Rothschild" with "Steven Spielberg"


[Image: vaticanwealth1.JPG]
[Image: vaticanwealth4.JPG]
[Image: vaticanwealth6.JPG]
...

So, OK, the Vatican has more money than Steven Spielberg. You win! But seriously, the Vatican isn't even close to being as wealthy as some people seem to think it is. And those same people aren't going after Spielberg to send all his money to Africa. And they're not going after Mormons and their $100 billion fund, either.
...

First of all, the Catholic Church is the single greatest charitable institution in the History of man. We're the ones who invented soup kitches. And hospitals. And orphanages. We have entire religious orders devoted to serving the poor and sick. Forbes ranks the Catholic Charities USA as being among the top fifteen largest charities in the United States, with our having spent $4.5 billion dollars -- money collected from Christ-loving Catholics -- caring for just the American needy in 2014 alone.1 And that's just the United States. We have missions, hospitals, orphanages, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, etc., all over the planet. For example, according to Rome Reports, here's what the Church does just for Africa. It runs:

1,074 hospitals
5,373 primary care centers
186 leprosy treatment centers
1,279 clinics
753 homes for the elderly and disabled
979 orphanages
1,997 nurseries
1,590 marriage counseling centers
2,947 social education centers


In addition to caring for the needy and sick is the caring for our cultural heritage. The Vatican preserves the great works of art that've been entrusted to the Church, and makes them available to the entire world in its museums. These beautiful works, freely given to or commissioned by the Church, are meant to inspire us! Would the world be better off if these invaluable treasures of the Western world were removed from Vatican museums, auctioned off at Sotheby's, and turned into tchotchke sitting in some Jewish guy's Manhattan penthouse?

Now, it must be understood that Vatican City is its own country, and has expenses like every other country in the world does. It must pay for its infrastructure, its police, its utilities, its missions, payroll for its employees, etc., etc. Just the Vatican radio station alone has over 300 employees! That's a lot that an entire country has to pay for with a mere 10 billion dollars. However, that amount of money is not far from what Israel gets every year from the American taxpayer just for military funding.

Some people go on about the various properties owned by the Church throughout the world. Well! God forbid Catholics should have parishes where they can attend Mass, schools to educate their children, or places where nuns, sisters, monks, and brothers can live so they can continue their work of feeding the poor, caring for the homeless, tending to the sick, etc. Other faith communities can have their synagogues, mosques, or buildings in which to hold their services, so why can't we?

Some Protestants are even fine with those huge megachurches -- those things that look like sports arenas and come packaged with snack bars, coffee shops, gyms, basketball courts, ATMs, gift shops, bookstores, etc. The average income of just one of those huge places was $6.5 million in 2007, half of which went to salaries. These ginormous structures can cost $20 million dollars to build -- not a problem, of course, because they're Protestant. But when it comes to Catholics -- well, I guess we're expected to attend Mass in rooms we rent from our local libraries or something, and our priests should be living on bread and water (as it is, the typical priest's yearly income is $40,000 per year. Trash collectors make $34,420, and the average schoolbus driver's salary is $31,509. And they don't work 7 days a week or get sick calls in the middle of the night either.). Whatever!

All the parishes and monasteries around the world aren't even owned by "the Pope" or "the Vatican"; they're owned by the various Bishops and the religious orders in question. So, please, stop talking about how "the Vatican" or "the Pope" is "too wealthy" and -- what? Should we sell the Sistine Chapel so it can be turned into a disco and the proceeds sent to Africa, where some African "Big Man" leader will use it all for himself while his people starve? No thanks!

And finally, the Catholic Church is not the largest land-owner in the world; Queen Elizabeth II is.

p.s. some more excellent articles on the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades too:
https://www.fisheaters.com/spanishinquisition.html
https://www.fisheaters.com/crusades.html

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(This post was last modified: 02-09-2020 06:58 AM by Handsome Creepy Eel.)
02-09-2020 06:42 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
< The queen may be the largest owner in square miles. What the church owns is prime real estate - not only churches. I saw ownership plans while working at some banks - you saw that in many cities the church and the affiliated monasteries owned sometimes entire rental buildings in prime locations. That is true all across the world. Owning some woods in Canada like Queen Elizabeth does is not that expensive.

As for Catholic charity projects - that is true and commendable. ON top of it - there are a ton of independent monasteries which are only affiliated with the Catholic Church. I would count them into the full money bag and some have massive holdings even if their income isn't that hot. I know for a fact that many European cities have huge real estate holdings in prime locations.

Though frankly - I wouldn't be opposed to that per se if the church wasn't so infiltrated by now.
02-09-2020 07:36 AM
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Post: #23
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons are a cult probably created by chosen people to get the goyest of the goys to join as teeth slaves or those that can pretend to be extremely gullible in order to get the benefits. (community and belonging)

Quote:Joseph Smith said the Book of Mormon was translated from writing on golden plates in a reformed Egyptian language, translated with the assistance of the Urim and Thummim and seer stones. Both the special spectacles and the seer stone were at times referred to as the "Urim and Thummim".[9][10] He said an angel first showed him the location of the plates in 1823, buried in a nearby hill, but he was not allowed to take the plates until 1827. Smith began dictating the text of The Book of Mormon around the fall of 1827 until the summer of 1828 when 116 pages were lost. Translation began again in April 1829 and finished in June 1829,[11] saying that he translated it "by the gift and power of God".[12] Oliver Cowdery acted as scribe for the majority of the translation. After the translation was completed, Smith said the plates were returned to the angel. During Smith's supposed possession, very few people were allowed to "witness" the plates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_witnesses

Needless to say nobody ever has seen the plates or the seer stones and the testimony of 8 people from his cult should be sufficient.

It's pretty much a joke to any rational person, but they got a pretty good economy in Utah and I presume they take care of their own to some extend, so people are enticed to join that way...
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2020 08:04 AM by SomeOneSomeWhere.)
02-09-2020 08:01 AM
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Post: #24
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
Mormons are required to keep a years worth of food stored in their houses. Additionally, the Mormon church maintains approximately 100 huge warehouses positioned around the US and Canada. These are all stocked with essentials and will be distributed to Mormons in the event that supplies chains are cut.

They are prepared for the apocalypse and to take over the world after it happens.
02-09-2020 09:34 AM
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Post: #25
RE: The Mormon Church has amassed $100 billion
(02-09-2020 05:15 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  The Catholic church for example is worth trillions and not billions. The 50 bio. $ is the liquid reserve. The Catholic church real estate is easily worth 1000+ billions - could even be 5000 billion. But that is hardly increasing except in some African countries and partly in China. However - it depends on the local followers to be able to upkeep the real estate holdings of the Catholic church. Currently the pope there including a lot of the leadership is on a suicide course. I personally expect the Catholic church to become weaker and pooer in the coming decades - possibly even go into freefall once the first openly gay/transgender pope gets elected who will gift Muslims thousands of barely used churches.

The Mormons in a way are similar to the Jewish tribe - they will survive even if the Mormons are hardly as insidious as the top Jewry. You can become Mormon any day and they accept you into their fold.

Veering off topic here because this is supposed to be about the Mormons, but one factor that's often ignored when discussing the many, many problems that the Catholic church is experiencing nowadays is that it's essentially a Latin American church now, with most of the active non-Latino churchgoers also originating from somewhere in the third world. It shouldn't be surprising that in an organization made up of mostly third world people you get third world levels of order, efficiency, and financial health.

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(This post was last modified: 02-09-2020 09:38 AM by bucky.)
02-09-2020 09:37 AM
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