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The NBA Thread
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Professor Fox Offline
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Post: #376
RE: The NBA Thread
Warriors gut it out but this wasn't their year.

I think Memphis has a good chance of making the Finals and giving the Heat a tough fight.
05-17-2013 03:24 AM
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2Wycked Offline
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Post: #377
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-17-2013 03:24 AM)Professor Fox Wrote:  Warriors gut it out but this wasn't their year.

I think Memphis has a good chance of making the Finals and giving the Heat a tough fight.

If it is a Griz/Heat finals it will be a great series to watch because Memphis can pound it down low. Gasol and Randolph will tear up Miami's interior defense. Tony Allen would take out the already ineffective Wade. It would be on LeBron to win the series, but I don't see that happening. I'm a Celtics fan and I was killed when the Heat beat them in game 7 last year. LeBron can take over a game, but I don't see him taking over a series.

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05-17-2013 03:33 AM
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Post: #378
RE: The NBA Thread
I agree, I feel that of the remaining teams the Grizz are the most likely to knock off the Heat. They have played Miami well during the big three era and it's just a great matchup for them.

It would be cool if Pop/Duncan went out with another ring, but I have a harder time imagining the Spurs upending the Heat.
05-17-2013 04:57 AM
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Post: #379
RE: The NBA Thread
With Sam Hinkie taking over as the GM in Philly, we have another guy who never played pro ball as the head of a front office. Good to see these things happen.

Long live basketball analytics!
05-17-2013 01:53 PM
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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Post: #380
RE: The NBA Thread
I honestly just don't think anyone has a chance against Miami. They'll win in 6 games is my prediction. I think Memphis and San Antonio will be a good match.
05-17-2013 03:18 PM
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Therapsid Offline
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Post: #381
RE: The NBA Thread
This has been a pretty weak playoffs. The 2011 Mavericks, 2009 Lakers, or 2008 Celtics would beat all these teams.
05-17-2013 03:30 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #382
RE: The NBA Thread
Terrible coaching by Mike Woodson. The Knicks need to find an answer for being saddled with amare stoudemire's $20 million a year salary moving forward.

Miami vs Indiana should be interesting
05-18-2013 09:54 PM
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Professor Fox Offline
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Post: #383
RE: The NBA Thread
Knicks game/clock management was comical in the 4th. Carmelo flames out again!
05-18-2013 10:20 PM
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Belize King Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-18-2013 09:54 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Terrible coaching by Mike Woodson. The Knicks need to find an answer for being saddled with amare stoudemire's $20 million a year salary moving forward.

Miami vs Indiana should be interesting

Why do you think Woodson did a bad job?

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05-18-2013 10:58 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-18-2013 10:58 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  Why do you think Woodson did a bad job?

His offense sucks. They play a lot of isolation and depend on low percentage shots. The defense is also shaky.
05-18-2013 11:05 PM
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Mentavious Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
I feel like no matter who is the coach the Knicks won't get far. You can't win in this league with one all star on the team.

ill agree that Woodoson love ISO (see Joe J) but he's working with a bunch if role players other than Melo...and Amare knees are done.

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(This post was last modified: 05-18-2013 11:10 PM by Mentavious.)
05-18-2013 11:09 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-18-2013 11:09 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  I feel like no matter who is the coach the Knicks won't get far. You can't win in this league with one all star on the team.

ill agree that Woodoson love ISO (see Joe J) but he's working with a bunch if role players other than Melo...and Amare knees are done.

I agree, they're doubly screwed with Amares knees and the lack of salary cap flexibility, especially since there's quite a few good free agents this year that could help them with low post scoring. They will probably go over the luxury tax next season if they don't deal Amare(which is unlikely) handcuffing them for the foreseeable future. Melos a great player and all, but IMO you cant build a team around him and expect to go to a championship especially with the way the Knicks ate built now.

With that said the Pacers-Heat series should be a great test for Miami, but I expect them to win that in 6 and face the Grizz.
05-18-2013 11:59 PM
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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Post: #388
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-17-2013 03:30 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  This has been a pretty weak playoffs. The 2011 Mavericks, 2009 Lakers, or 2008 Celtics would beat all these teams.

2011 Mavs would not beat this years Heat line up.
05-19-2013 12:22 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
It's lazy on the part of the media to keep blaming Carmelo for the Knicks' failure. From the beginning, we knew this team was flawed, mostly due to their age. They were without Shumpert for a good part of the year, and he only got comfortable just before the playoffs. Felton and Kidd didn't step up for most of the playoffs (though the Indiana backcourt had a lot to do with that). Woodson went away from a couple of other shooters he has on his bench in Copeland and Novak (it's no secret that coaches often shorten their rotations in the playoffs, but in the Knicks case, it was particularly harmful to them). JR Smith went cold at the worst time, because he's that second scorer that relieves some of the load on Anthony. Their interior defense wasn't up to par, and with Chandler in there (last season's Defensive Player of the Year), that's criminal because the Knicks are lacking in size overall. Kenyon Martin gave them so good minutes, but his knees have also robbed him of his explosiveness. Even healthy, Amare Stoudemire hasn't been a good defender throughout his career. I have to give Roy Hibbert lots of credit for his play this series, and his improvement. The Pacers were a bad matchup for the Knicks all season, so the result here isn't shocking.

When the Knicks move the ball, they can overcome some of their weaknesses, but they get away from it - that's on Woodson. Melo really isn't a selfish player - he simply needs reliable players around him. When that's lacking, he does what most top scorers in the league do, and what their teams expect them to do - they take it upon themselves to get it done, because if they don't they'll get criticized. It isn't hero ball if you're actually the only one out there with the ability to get a basket when your team needs it. Melo has carried load since the day he arrived. He's a willing passer, but needs someone to give it to. There were periods, due to injury, when he's actually brought the ball up himself, initiated the offense, then is also expect to finish the possession. In this series, the Pacer D was physical and swarming, and I think in the 4th quarters the guy was drained. When he isn't taking the shot, he's active on the boards, which he doesn't get credit for. Melo is not the problem, and you CAN build around him. In the season that the Nuggets went to the Western Conference Final, he played an all-around game because they had a nice squad around him. Also, on teams with scorers like him, his teammates will often give him the ball and move out of the way, stop moving, etc. and expect him to bail them out. Scorers don't back away from that.

I'm actually okay with Woodson as coach, because I'd rather have a coach that provides a foundation in defense. Offense is easier to fix, and they know what they have to do to be more effective - move the ball. The Knicks really only have two players, Melo and Smith, that are capable of creating their own shot of the dribble. Felton can also get by other guards to get into the lane. That's it - they have to create opportunities through motion.

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05-19-2013 01:25 PM
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Jules D. McMillan Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Western Conference Finals

Grizzlies V Spurs

I honestly don't know which team is going to win this series. This is as close to a toss up as it gets in the NBA. The Grizz have the advantage inside, but the Spurs have the advantage on the perimeter. Both teams can guard both the interior and perimeter very well, so it's safe to assume that this will be a long drag-out series. The winner will be the first team that does all the little intangibles consistently(hustle for loose balls, lack of turnovers, late game execution). As I said before, I don't know which team will win so I'm going to go on a hunch and predict Grizzlies in 7.

Eastern Conference Finals

Pacers V Heat

The Pacers are a big, physical team that plays perhaps the best defense in the league. They will force the Heat to play their style and they will have a major edge on the boards. While they won't be as physical as the Bulls were, they will make it very difficult for the Heat when their players are attacking the basket. One of the things that I like about the Pacers is that they don't try to matchup with small teams, they stick to their gameplan and use their size to win.

Unfortunately, the Pacers miss freethrows and turn the ball over too much, which will ultimately cost them in this series. This series will be interesting, but Heat in 6.
05-19-2013 02:14 PM
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Jules D. McMillan Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-17-2013 03:30 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  This has been a pretty weak playoffs. The 2011 Mavericks, 2009 Lakers, or 2008 Celtics would beat all these teams.

That's because of all the injuries to top players. This would have been a classic postseason if all teams were healthy. Unfortunately, injuries dilluted the competition this year.
05-19-2013 02:18 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Griz in 7. Heat in 7. Heat in 7.

Unless Dwade get hurt.
05-19-2013 02:32 PM
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InternationPlayboy Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-19-2013 01:25 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  It's lazy on the part of the media to keep blaming Carmelo for the Knicks' failure.

People here in Denver hate on Melo so hard. I was talking to some chick yesterday who clearly didn't know jack about basketball. She kept saying how he sucked and was a ball hog. I can agree he likes the ball, but you know how much value he brought to Denver? Melo's a great player.

On a side note, it seems like most people picked the Grizzlies, but they are getting spanked right now, not even half way into the 2nd quarter. I say SA in 6 or 7.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2013 03:17 PM by InternationPlayboy.)
05-19-2013 03:16 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
@Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2013 11:38 PM by TheSlayer.)
05-19-2013 11:29 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
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05-20-2013 01:08 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-19-2013 11:29 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.

The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.
05-20-2013 10:09 AM
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at350zguyy Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Cavs win the lottery again...Is there a player that they need? I think the best fit for their team would be a guy like Otto Porter or a true big guy. Don't think Nerlens Noel or Ben McLemore are the guys for them. Wouldnt be surprised if they traded down to a lower lottery pick and got some cash or another pick in exchange for it. They're set at PG, SG, and PF. The 2 most logical positions for positions for them to fill are small forward and center, where they currently have Andy Varejao who is a free agent at the end of the year (I believe).
05-21-2013 08:07 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-21-2013 08:07 PM)at350zguyy Wrote:  Cavs win the lottery again...Is there a player that they need? I think the best fit for their team would be a guy like Otto Porter or a true big guy. Don't think Nerlens Noel or Ben McLemore are the guys for them. Wouldnt be surprised if they traded down to a lower lottery pick and got some cash or another pick in exchange for it. They're set at PG, SG, and PF. The 2 most logical positions for positions for them to fill are small forward and center, where they currently have Andy Varejao who is a free agent at the end of the year (I believe).

Nerlens Noel, barring something serious popping up in his medical reports, which might I add is rare with ACL injuries nowadays, contains a ton of hidden value.

No, he's probably not worthy of being a #1 pick, but the value is that he's not playing an NBA game until January-February at the earliest. This is enormously valuable because the 2014 draft is already being talked about as the strongest one since the LeBron, Melo, Wade draft of 2003. As a result, the Cavs can now draft Noel, rehab him correctly, watch Irving, Waiters and Thompson improve, trade Varejao and draft a bit higher in the lottery than they probably should in 2014.

Add another potential young star to the Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Noel mix and you've got an outrageously young and athletic team. Additionally, they're all on rookie contracts so you'll be able to bring in some veteran bigs or shooters to mentor them.

A very nice situation to be in as a Cavs fan tonight.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2013 08:16 PM by TheBulldozer.)
05-21-2013 08:15 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-20-2013 10:09 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-19-2013 11:29 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Timoteo and @InternationPlayboy: Carmelo is a great player but he is a one-dimensional player. That will be always the problem with him. Let's get something out of the way. The Knicks as they are constructed were not going to seriously challenge Miami. When J.R. is your second best player, you are in a load of trouble.

But let's also be clear, Carmelo's performance in these playoffs was pretty extraordinary, and probably even below average. The guy scored 28.8 points per game in the playoffs with splits of 40.6/29/85. He only averaged 1.6 assists and 6.6 rebounds per game. The 40.6% shooting is dismal, no matter how you slice it.

I will say that he actually played well in the Indiana series in terms of ball movement, not being a ball hog, and being a willing passer. In the Boston series, we got to see a lot of bad Carmelo with too much holding the ball and barely passing.

Timoteo, you said the Pacers D was swarming and physical. I agree that it was but if you noticed the Pacers rarely doubled Melo. He was usually played by Paul George and shot awful against him.

The problem with Carmelo is that he is extremely one dimensional, shoots a low percentage, and does not play defense. You can build around him but the team has to be extremely complimentary to his strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand LeBron is a player around whom you can build in a variety of ways because he can do many different things very well. It may seem unfair to compare Carmelo to LeBron but they both were part of the same draft and play the same position. Hence, the comparisons will always be there.

Now onto the rest of the playoffs. I am surprised so many people are picking the Grizzlies. I am picking the Spurs in 6 or 7. One of my reasons for that is in close games my money is on Pop to outcoach Hollins. Hollins isn't going up against Del Negro and Brooks who are pretty average coaches and not known for designing good plays or making adjustments.

As a LeBron/Heat fan I think both Spurs and Grizzlies will give the HEat a run for their money but the basketball fan in me wants to see the Spurs' Big 3 vs. the Miami Big 3 (hoping Wade has a rejuvenation like he did last year in the second half of the playoffs).

@Therapsid, there's no way Dallas 2011 team beats this year's Miami team. Miami's achilles heel that year was the zone but this year Miami has many zone busters in Allen, Battier, a healthy Miller, and even LeBron who shot 40% from 3 this year. Spo is a much better coach and LeBron has definitely overcome his mental hurdles.

The problem with Carmelo is that he doesn't do anything but shoot jump shots these days. There used to be a time when Carmelo was actually somewhat athletic, driving to the hole with a combination of finesse and strength. I remember in the 09 Denver-LA WCF - he was phenomenal to watch. I became a Carmelo fan at that time. Nowadays he looks fat, out of shape, and slow/wooden when it comes to moving his legs. There are times he looks as if he can barely jump.

It may not be fair to compare melo to lebron, but there was a time early in their careers when they were probably the most promising 2 small forwards in the league. It's sad how Durant's career has already eclipsed carmelo's, when carmelo had so much more time to achieve great things.

You also have to factor in who Carmelo is playing with - either Chandler or Stoudemire is down in the post most of the time, so that's partly why Melo is largely on the perimeter. He came into this season in great shape, and led the league in scoring. You don't do that just hoisting jumpers. He rebounded well considering he's their small forward and primary scorer, and frankly, his game can't be judged on his assist numbers. He's a finisher, and his job isn't to set others up. The Pacers are a long, athletic team, so yes, you're going to struggle a little against that. He and LeBron actually don't play the same position - they never have. LeBron came into the league with the Cavs as a point guard, and even at his size, that's still his primary position though you can put him at small forward depending on who else is on the court. Melo isn't the complete player LeBron is, but few have EVER been the player that he is. The Knicks are basically in the same position they were at the time of they acquired Melo - they are going to turn over half this roster. The only old guy that you will see around next season is possibly Kenyon Martin. JR Smith may not be back, even after winning the 6th Man of the Year. They may keep Copeland as the shooter and let Novak go, being Novak is more expensive and not quite as good an athlete as Copeland (he's longer and better at getting his shot on his own). Prigioni, who was a pleasant surprise, will probably return to Italy (this year was really just an experiment, but the wife is a Spaniard, doesn't speak English, and wants to return home). Kidd may be tapped out now. Camby wasn't much help, and Rasheed Wallace already retired. Shumpert is going to summer league, so he should be back to where he was before he got hurt next season. Kurt Thomas didn't give them much either.

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05-21-2013 08:37 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-21-2013 08:15 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  
(05-21-2013 08:07 PM)at350zguyy Wrote:  Cavs win the lottery again...Is there a player that they need? I think the best fit for their team would be a guy like Otto Porter or a true big guy. Don't think Nerlens Noel or Ben McLemore are the guys for them. Wouldnt be surprised if they traded down to a lower lottery pick and got some cash or another pick in exchange for it. They're set at PG, SG, and PF. The 2 most logical positions for positions for them to fill are small forward and center, where they currently have Andy Varejao who is a free agent at the end of the year (I believe).

Nerlens Noel, barring something serious popping up in his medical reports, which might I add is rare with ACL injuries nowadays, contains a ton of hidden value.

No, he's probably not worthy of being a #1 pick, but the value is that he's not playing an NBA game until January-February at the earliest. This is enormously valuable because the 2014 draft is already being talked about as the strongest one since the LeBron, Melo, Wade draft of 2003. As a result, the Cavs can now draft Noel, rehab him correctly, watch Irving, Waiters and Thompson improve, trade Varejao and draft a bit higher in the lottery than they probably should in 2014.

Add another potential young star to the Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Noel mix and you've got an outrageously young and athletic team. Additionally, they're all on rookie contracts so you'll be able to bring in some veteran bigs or shooters to mentor them.

A very nice situation to be in as a Cavs fan tonight.

It also because of years like this that a lot of teams are actually happy not to be burdened with the #1 pick. There are a ton of young projects at the top of the draft, and the top pick always brings ridiculous expectations. The Cavs have been in the lottery 3 years running, and don't want to keep coming back for too much longer. There's nothing in this draft that will prevent them from being back in the lottery next season. You generally want to take a good big over a good small guy (especially when you already have a great small guy in Kyrie Irving), and frankly, that roster is top heavy in guard/small forward types. In that sense, it makes their decision of who to select a bit easier.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
05-21-2013 08:45 PM
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