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The NBA Thread
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #401
RE: The NBA Thread
The Cavs are so devoid on talent that they have to go for the best player in the draft. In this case, probably Noel since he has several defined NBA skills in rebounding and blocking shots at an elite level. Bigs that can block shots and have the agility and athleticism to cover pick and rolls are more rare than unicorns and at the very least Noel can be expected to be an impact guy defensively. The question is how does he develop offensively? McClemore would be a great pick as well since he does not need the ball to be effective and is an elite shooter, so that gives Kyrie a safety valve when he essentially has none right now on the roster. The problem with McClemore right now is that he is not adept at creating his own shot and is not good shooting off the dribble yet. The jury is out on Waiters, who is a high usage and horribly inefficient player. He needs the ball to be effective and that doesn't complement Kyrie well in that sense, although it is very early for his career. Keep in mind that the Cavs are shopping Varejao heavily(at least they were before he got hurt), and they have a sizable market to do so. The rest of the field just screams guys that are probably solid rotation guys with a few starters but nothing sterling IMO.A guy like Porter is too much of a jack of all trades to go #1 although he's nice, but doesn't offer the upside Ben or Nerlens offer.
05-21-2013 09:42 PM
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at350zguyy Offline
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Post: #402
RE: The NBA Thread
Don't think they need a McLemore since they drafted Waiters last year. Noel makes some sense but I think they can trade their pick and get something out of it. This is a weak draft class too. Possible future picks in next year's draft which is supposed to be stronger with the likes of Wiggins, Parker, etc.

There are a ton of rotation quality big guys in this draft though. You've got guys like Adams, Dieng, Gobert, Olynyk, and a ton more. I see them trading the pick in the most likely scenario. Noel is definitely not a player to take a risk on with a #1 pick. No way. Don't see him being an impact player. Steven Adams will be better than him.
05-21-2013 11:01 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
What a game!

Love Mike Breen dude is the tits : "BANNNG!"
05-21-2013 11:03 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #404
RE: The NBA Thread
I still don't think Waiters is a good fit for the Cavs, considering him and Kyrie essentially took turns dominating the ball it seemed, rather than playing off each other, but we will see in time. When picking first, especially if you are as bad as the Cavs are, getting the best player or filling a need is all about philosophy, although a good argument can be made for both. One player in the NBA(star driven league) makes a big difference though so I tend to lean towards best player available(if picking top 5).

The guys you named(with the exeception of Dieng) Gobert, Olynyk, or Adams not are even remotely close to Noel in terms of defensively ability and/or athletic ability for that matter. Adams especially is an extremely poor finisher and has bad hands, while being pedestrian on the boards. Shows nice tools for the future though. Olynyk is actually the worst defender out of all the players you named being amongst the worst shot blockers and rebounders in the whole draft when you adjust his stats per 40 minutes. His lack of defensive presence is concerning. He might actually be the most skilled player in the draft offensively, but will he be able defend and stay on the floor so coaches can utilize his skill set? Not the best question marks to have on draft day. Gobert is a huge question mark with vast potential. He hasn't shown much to be considered a better player than Noel at this point. Meanwhile Noel is an amazing finisher converting a high amount of his chances, even though the rest of his offensive game is crude is best. So there he has skills immediately transferable to the league in terms of finishing, blocking shots, and rebounding at a nice level especially compared to his peers. With the things he's good at he does much better than anyone else in the draft.

The question marks surrounding Noel are well warranted, especially injury wise. However, there have been a ton of players come back from that injury to perform at a high or higher level(relative to before) due to the medical advancement in surgery.
05-21-2013 11:56 PM
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at350zguyy Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Have watched Adams play live twice this season, and both times he changed the games defensively, once even with after his ankle sprain. Adams also had a killer showing at the combine and is rapidly climbing. Noel isn't worth the risk with a top pick, not only because of the energy, but because they've already got a similar player there (Thompson is very limited offensively, and a bigger presence on defense than offense). Sure, Noel can block shots and rebound, but so can a guy like Dieng, who they can trade down for.

I'm not sold on Noel as a top pick, and neither are a lot of other scouts I've talked to about him even before the injury.

The Cavs also have 4 picks and can get even more by trading down. They have a lot of D-League level players right now, and I can almost guarantee a ton of this year's draft class will end up there too. Guys like Alonzo Gee, Kevin Jones, Donald Sloan, etc. will be replaced immediately by the draft picks or by free agents. The Cavs have a lot of cap space to use and if they fill out their roster with rookie contracts this year, they can make a bigger splash next year. Also wouldn't be surprised to see them do their due diligence and reach out to Dwight Howard's camp.
05-22-2013 10:57 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Memphis has played twice already. Indiana won on Saturday. How many days does Miami get to rest Wade and prepare?
05-22-2013 01:12 PM
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Chewbacon Offline
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Post: #407
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 01:12 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Memphis has played twice already. Indiana won on Saturday. How many days does Miami get to rest Wade and prepare?

Sounds more and more like a david stern plot to me...

In all seriousness, I can't stand Stern. He takes all the fun out of the NBA. If he were such a good commissioner, why are his customers - the fans - always booing him when they give out the championship trophy?

Granted, that's just an uneducated, non-business assessment of him.
05-22-2013 01:35 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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Post: #408
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 01:35 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 01:12 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Memphis has played twice already. Indiana won on Saturday. How many days does Miami get to rest Wade and prepare?

Sounds more and more like a david stern plot to me...

In all seriousness, I can't stand Stern. He takes all the fun out of the NBA. If he were such a good commissioner, why are his customers - the fans - always booing him when they give out the championship trophy?

Granted, that's just an uneducated, non-business assessment of him.

Stern took over the league when it was at its least popular and scandal-ridden. That great NBA Final in '80 (when Magic drop that 42/15/7 line) was on tape delay on CBS. He pulled it out of that pit and made the NBA a tv staple. He helped globalize it. He pulled in corporate partners, and with it profitability for owners and salaries for players. But it's time for him to go now. The labor issues/lock-outs, the new basketball fiasco (he tried to introduce new equipment without actually consulting with the men that would actually be using it), the age limit, the dress code, etc. He's very imperious and arrogant, and it started to wear on the public. I think that's why the public reacts negatively to him now. People forget that commissioners are hired by and paid by the owners. He's there to see to their interests and clean up their mistakes. Owners don't always know what's best for the league as a whole, because many of them are older guys that have owned for a long time, and most come from backgrounds in other kinds of businesses (Mark Cuban is a younger owner and more in touch with the marketplace, and maybe the Maloofs, who are second-generation owners. And you notice how Cuban is always at war with Stern). He's done what he can do, so now it's time to step aside. His legacy is sound, and he'll forever go down as one of the great sports commissioners ever. I'm glad to see him go.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
05-22-2013 02:00 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:00 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Stern took over the league when it was at its least popular and scandal-ridden.

I wonder why they continue to take a loss on the WNBA?
05-22-2013 02:05 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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Post: #410
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 01:35 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 01:12 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Memphis has played twice already. Indiana won on Saturday. How many days does Miami get to rest Wade and prepare?

Sounds more and more like a david stern plot to me...

In all seriousness, I can't stand Stern. He takes all the fun out of the NBA. If he were such a good commissioner, why are his customers - the fans - always booing him when they give out the championship trophy?

Granted, that's just an uneducated, non-business assessment of him.

The Western Conference Finals started before the Eastern Conference Finals because Memphis and Spurs moved on to the next round before NYK-IND was decided. Also, they have a contractual obligation with ABC for a Sunday afternoon game so they had to start.

It's not a conspiracy or anything (to give Miami and Wade more rest). It all evens out in the end because now Spurs and Grizzlies get 3 days off and MIA-IND play every other day.

Agree with Timoteo on his assessment on Stern. When he took the league over, the league was in shambles and now it is a global league and perhaps the only North American league which is actually popular outside of the continent.

Stern does represent the owners and most of the his decisions actually come from consulting with the Board of Governors (which is comprised of owners or their representatives) and they vote on most issues anyway. Stern is just the face of the league. Even one of his most controversial decision recently to block the Chris Paul trade was only made because Dan Gilbert (no surprises here) and Mark Cuban threw a hissy fit.

I am no fan of Stern by the way and don't agree with many of his decisions and practices (his and the owners really). One of my biggest complaints is questionable officiating at times (I am not a conspiracy theorist who believes the NBA is fixed, btw). Hell, even I would boo Stern if I were at a game and he was there.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 02:14 PM by TheSlayer.)
05-22-2013 02:10 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:05 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:00 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Stern took over the league when it was at its least popular and scandal-ridden.

I wonder why they continue to take a loss on the WNBA?

Stern has recently said that if he got a chance he would do the WNBA differently (not exactly sure what that means). It's funny how the WNBA has to be subsidized by the NBA. Hooray for equality and women in sports.
05-22-2013 02:11 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  It all evens out in the end because now Spurs and Grizzlies get 3 days off and MIA-IND play every other day.

Seems like teams getting 3 days off in a series is a bit much?
05-22-2013 02:15 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:15 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  It all evens out in the end because now Spurs and Grizzlies get 3 days off and MIA-IND play every other day.

Seems like teams getting 3 days off in a series is a bit much?

They always do playoffs like that though. Also, you have to remember that they are basically giving the teams an extra day to travel. In the playoffs, they try to space out the games a little bit to give the players rest and whenever they change cities there is a 2 or 3 day layoff.

Usually when they are playing the two games in the same city, they do every other day and when the venue changes 2 or 3 day gap.
05-22-2013 02:19 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:11 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:05 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:00 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Stern took over the league when it was at its least popular and scandal-ridden.

I wonder why they continue to take a loss on the WNBA?

Stern has recently said that if he got a chance he would do the WNBA differently (not exactly sure what that means). It's funny how the WNBA has to be subsidized by the NBA. Hooray for equality and women in sports.

I think there are a couple of WNBA franchises that broke away and operate independently of the NBA, but still benefit from the perceived connection. Prior experience taught us that women's professional sports leagues in this country are a hard sell. I recall there was a competing league, the WBL I think, that collapsed because they didn't have the NBA backing (I think the WNBA absorbed a couple of the teams, and of course raided the talent that was left over). He's allowed the teams to place advertising on their uniforms (something Cuban proposed for NBA teams - he has advertising on the Mavs' practice jerseys) to try to get additional revenue. One other issue the WNBA has had to deal with is the sexuality issue. Lesbians provide major fan support for the league, and of course want to be officially recognized and directly marketed to. The league is reluctant to do that, because whatever corporate sponsors they have will run for the hills (they don't want their products associated with homosexuality). I hear you - I don't know what he could have done differently.

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05-22-2013 02:23 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:19 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:15 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  It all evens out in the end because now Spurs and Grizzlies get 3 days off and MIA-IND play every other day.

Seems like teams getting 3 days off in a series is a bit much?

They always do playoffs like that though. Also, you have to remember that they are basically giving the teams an extra day to travel. In the playoffs, they try to space out the games a little bit to give the players rest and whenever they change cities there is a 2 or 3 day layoff.

Usually when they are playing the two games in the same city, they do every other day and when the venue changes 2 or 3 day gap.

TV controls the schedule guys. They pay BILLIONS to broadcast, so they get the schedule they want.

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05-22-2013 02:25 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:25 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:19 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:15 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  It all evens out in the end because now Spurs and Grizzlies get 3 days off and MIA-IND play every other day.

Seems like teams getting 3 days off in a series is a bit much?

They always do playoffs like that though. Also, you have to remember that they are basically giving the teams an extra day to travel. In the playoffs, they try to space out the games a little bit to give the players rest and whenever they change cities there is a 2 or 3 day layoff.

Usually when they are playing the two games in the same city, they do every other day and when the venue changes 2 or 3 day gap.

TV controls the schedule guys. They pay BILLIONS to broadcast, so they get the schedule they want.

Yup, TV schedule + spacing out the games for travel and rest. Forgot to mention that in my reply.
05-22-2013 02:26 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:19 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  They always do playoffs like that though.

I remember 2 day gaps, but you might be right.
05-22-2013 02:29 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:25 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  TV controls the schedule guys. They pay BILLIONS to broadcast, so they get the schedule they want.

That makes more sense for a 3 day off schedule, but it still seems kinda wacky to me as a fan.
05-22-2013 02:31 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:23 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  I think there are a couple of WNBA franchises that broke away and operate independently of the NBA, but still benefit from the perceived connection. Prior experience taught us that women's professional sports leagues in this country are a hard sell. I recall there was a competing league, the WBL I think, that collapsed because they didn't have the NBA backing (I think the WNBA absorbed a couple of the teams, and of course raided the talent that was left over). He's allowed the teams to place advertising on their uniforms (something Cuban proposed for NBA teams - he has advertising on the Mavs' practice jerseys) to try to get additional revenue. One other issue the WNBA has had to deal with is the sexuality issue. Lesbians provide major fan support for the league, and of course want to be officially recognized and directly marketed to. The league is reluctant to do that, because whatever corporate sponsors they have will run for the hills (they don't want their products associated with homosexuality). I hear you - I don't know what he could have done differently.

Yeah, all solid points. Women sports will remain a hard sell because even women (straight women) want to see the best male athletes compete.

I absolute HATE the advertising on uniforms idea. The typical NBA game is already full of too many commercials as it is. They always love to use soccer as an example for advertising on jerseys. Okay, but then in soccer you get to watch 45 minutes X 2 of uninterrupted play without any commercials. For them it makes sense.

If the NBA approves of advertising on jerseys will they at least eliminate the TV timeouts and reduce commercials during the game? They want it both ways. I don't own any jerseys myself but I wonder what will the millions of fans think when they buy the jersey of their favourite players plastered with corporate logos. Wouldn't that deter fans from wearing them in public?
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 02:34 PM by TheSlayer.)
05-22-2013 02:31 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:23 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Prior experience taught us that women's professional sports leagues in this country are a hard sell.

The issue I have is that its too over the top. In other words, you could be watching a game and they throw in WNBA advertisement out of nowhere and it doesn't fit in. Or they stick their players in the NBA Allstar weekend??

As a casual observer, it seems like women's college basketball is more self-sufficient and legit?
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 02:41 PM by JayMillz.)
05-22-2013 02:38 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Part of the reason Stern tried to force the new basketball on everyone was that he was kissing up to Spalding. I'm sure the sales of the leather NBA ball weren't great, so you introduce a new product to help them make more money. He works for the owners, but also for the league's corporate partners. Networks pay billions for the rights, so with that they have to get even more access. Thus, the introduction of the in-game interview with coaches/managers. Most of them HATE it, but have to stand there and say a few words to some sideline Barbie that they'd prefer to be fucking. The players are forced to give mandatory media time, and are fined if they don't comply (more money for the league). It's the same reason why teams periodically introduce a new uniform - because fans will run to buy the new jersey. New Orleans changes its name from the Hornets to the Pelicans, so they can sell a whole new batch of souvenirs and uniforms with the new logo and colors. The Bobcats are changing back to the Hornets, so they can do the same.

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(This post was last modified: 05-22-2013 02:44 PM by Timoteo.)
05-22-2013 02:40 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:31 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(05-22-2013 02:23 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  I think there are a couple of WNBA franchises that broke away and operate independently of the NBA, but still benefit from the perceived connection. Prior experience taught us that women's professional sports leagues in this country are a hard sell. I recall there was a competing league, the WBL I think, that collapsed because they didn't have the NBA backing (I think the WNBA absorbed a couple of the teams, and of course raided the talent that was left over). He's allowed the teams to place advertising on their uniforms (something Cuban proposed for NBA teams - he has advertising on the Mavs' practice jerseys) to try to get additional revenue. One other issue the WNBA has had to deal with is the sexuality issue. Lesbians provide major fan support for the league, and of course want to be officially recognized and directly marketed to. The league is reluctant to do that, because whatever corporate sponsors they have will run for the hills (they don't want their products associated with homosexuality). I hear you - I don't know what he could have done differently.

Yeah, all solid points. Women sports will remain a hard sell because even women (straight women) want to see the best male athletes compete.

I absolute HATE the advertising on uniforms idea. The typical NBA game is already full of too many commercials as it is. They always love to use soccer as an example for advertising on jerseys. Okay, but then in soccer you get to watch 45 minutes X 2 of uninterrupted play without any commercials. For them it makes sense.

If the NBA approves of advertising on jerseys will they at least eliminate the TV timeouts and reduce commercials during the game? They want it both ways. I don't own any jerseys myself but I wonder what will the millions of fans think when they buy the jersey of their favourite players plastered with corporate logos. Wouldn't that deter fans from wearing them in public?

I don't think we'll see the ads on NBA jerseys. Stern felt it would cheapen the league. It was necessary for the WNBA, but not for the big league. You want the identity of each team to be their own name and logos. It's cool for practice jerseys, or even summer league jerseys, but not for the big show.

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05-22-2013 02:43 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:40 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Thus, the introduction of the in-game interview with coaches/managers. Most of them HATE it, but have to stand there and say a few words to some sideline Barbie that they'd prefer to be fucking. The players are forced to give mandatory media time, and are fined if they don't comply (more money for the league).

These are perfunctory at best and sometimes annoying and superfluous. They ask people pretty stupid questions. You watched the whole quarter and can see for yourself what is happening and they ask the coach or player to explain what is already evident to everyone.
05-22-2013 02:46 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:40 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  Thus, the introduction of the in-game interview with coaches/managers. Most of them HATE it, but have to stand there and say a few words to some sideline Barbie that they'd prefer to be fucking. The players are forced to give mandatory media time, and are fined if they don't comply (more money for the league).

Funny thing you mention that because I find the in-game interview with the coaches pretty useless. I have talked to a few of my other friends about this and they didn't care for it either. If anything it distracts from the game because they minimize the actual play and make the interview screen bigger. There are so many times, especially in the beginning of the 4th when you miss good plays because they were asking dumb questions to a coach who would rather be in the huddle. Do you care for those interviews?

I read somewhere that all the fines collected by the league are donated to various charities. The only complaint that the article had was that the league would not reveal which charities is the money given to.
05-22-2013 02:46 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-22-2013 02:43 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  I don't think we'll see the ads on NBA jerseys. Stern felt it would cheapen the league. It was necessary for the WNBA, but not for the big league. You want the identity of each team to be their own name and logos. It's cool for practice jerseys, or even summer league jerseys, but not for the big show.

Yeah, I hope not. A decision we can all commend Stern for I would say. If the sport/league is not big or does not have many opportunities for commercials I can support logos on jerseys but not for a cash cow like the NBA.

Once you start noticing, the amount of commercials and advertising is staggering. You have commercials obviously during the games, the arenas have sponsors, there are ads on the sidelines, the half-time shows have sponsors, and they also include random sponsors during the game when they present information like the "Coors Cold facts" or something that is going around these days. Lots of money being spent and made.
05-22-2013 02:53 PM
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