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The NBA Thread
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #526
RE: The NBA Thread
Some good analysts in terms of technical knowledge are Hubie Brown(the best), Mike Fratello, Kenny Smith, Sam Mitchell ,Jeff Van Gundy and Barkley. All the rest are terrible tbh.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 11:56 AM by Joga Bonito.)
05-27-2013 11:53 AM
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Timoteo Offline
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Post: #527
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 11:39 AM)Moma Wrote:  Timoteo - Which analysts are stellar and which ones are rubbish? Let me know so I know who to focus on and who to omit.

New York guys usually know their basketball. Some of the illest guards ever have come out from New York.

I like Tim Legler on ESPN. There's no hype or nonsense with him - just straight analysis and breakdown of what he sees on the court. Charles Barkley/Kenny Smith on TNT. They clown around, but when they're breaking something down or giving an opinion of a team or player, it's usually on point. Adding Shaq was stupid. They brought him in as a personality to stir things up, but he's really not an analyst. Chris Webber has also done a great job on TNT and NBA TV. He's a bright guy and give solid analysis. As I wrote above, Bill Simmons' columns about the NBA are both funny and on point. I liked Mark Jackson's TV work before he got the Golden State gig. Point guards tend to see the game analytically. Jeff Van Gundy is funny, but he knows the game also. I like his honesty - he doesn't tap dance around issues like so many others on tv. Hubie Brown is one of the best minds in terms of breaking down what's happening on the court.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 11:58 AM by Timoteo.)
05-27-2013 11:57 AM
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Mentavious Offline
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Post: #528
RE: The NBA Thread
I agree on what everyone has said especially on Hubie

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 01:23 PM by Mentavious.)
05-27-2013 01:23 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #529
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 01:50 AM)iWin Wrote:  Mike was never actually a great three point shooter, as he's 32% for his career

Correct. Mike was never a great 3pt shooter. He got hot from out there sometimes but mainly he focused his attack on 18 feet and in, like you said.

As he got older, he moved his game to the post. Similar to what Lebron was doing last night.

(05-27-2013 09:12 AM)CThunder86 Wrote:  Can we all agree Timmy is the best player since Jordan?

Yeah, Timmy, Shaq, Kobe, and Lebron.

These are the best players since Mike.

Hard to pick just 1 between those 4?

(05-27-2013 11:02 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  I think that's one of the greatest misconceptions about Allen's game throughout his career. That he was just a spot-up shooter.

When Ray was younger, he was a complete all around shooting guard. He could dribble the ball and score off the dribble. I remember the days when Ray used to drive in and occasionally dunk on people. He was a great scorer in college.

As he got older he evolved into a more spot up shooter.

Now, he is almost 40 years old, its amazing that he is still even out there playing.

The way he has taken care of his body and slowed down aging is really remarkable.

Theses older athletes are the guys that inspire me to continue to game young college girls. And, Bernard Hopkins.

(05-27-2013 11:39 AM)Moma Wrote:  Timoteo - Which analysts are stellar and which ones are rubbish? Let me know so I know who to focus on and who to omit.

My favorites are Hubie Brown and Magic. They say Hubie has forgotten more about basketball then most people will ever know.

Actually, my favorites commentators are not calling games anymore.

My all time favorite was Doug Collins. Few people love basketball as much as Doug Collins. I also used to love when Isaiah Thomas and Bill Walton did games. I also love Rick Barry, the Hall of Famer.

I don't like Chris Webber or Jalen Rose because they were soft as players and never tried that hard.

*****

Boy, was I wrong about the Grizzlies. I thought they had a chance. I though Gasol and Z-Bo would be able to muscle Duncan and Splitter. They swept the Spurs just 2 years ago. I thought the Spurs were getting older and the Grizz were getting better. The Grizz really miss OJ Mayo. But, give all the credit to the Spurs, they have the best coach, they added some great players (Green, Leonard, Diaw, etc.), Tim Duncan actually looks like he got younger. Parker is in his prime and added the jumpshot, Manu is still Manu.

It's an honor to watch the Spurs.

Can they beat the Heat? We'll see..
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 02:31 PM by Giovonny.)
05-27-2013 02:18 PM
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TheBulldozer Offline
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Post: #530
RE: The NBA Thread
I just finished Phil Jackson's new memoir "Eleven Rings" and wow was I blown away. He did it with a ghost writer, but it was clear most of the book was Jackson himself narrating.

Jax is a super alpha in much of what he does and it's the sole reason he's won 11 championships. You could give any modern coach, sans Popovich the same level of talent and watch it hilariously explode in their face.

It's a tremendous alpha leadership book for anyone who is a fan of the game.

I'm on mobile right now, but would anyone like me to do a more thorough write up of the book?
05-27-2013 04:11 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #531
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 04:11 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  would anyone like me to do a more thorough write up of the book?

I would really appreciate a that. I'm sure we all would.

Thanks in advance.
05-27-2013 04:14 PM
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Post: #532
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 11:20 AM)CThunder86 Wrote:  I agree with that fact Ray could do much more than be a spot up...up until 4 years ago. Even until this year they would run him off screens. Maybe it's the Lack of care for getting Ray Allen plays. Now that I look at it, he must really want to win a ring. He doesn't get any plays. They use him as a spot up. I'm sure they told him before him signed or he's just that much of a professional.

That was one of the main reasons why Allen left Boston. Rondo and him disagreed on his role. Rondo wanted him to just spot-up and let Rondo handle the ball, Allen wanted to handle a ball a bit more and create his own shots. Miami has actually used Allen very well. He spots up for them and if you notice he gets to handle the ball a lot more than he did in his last two years in Boston. Before yesterday's game, all of his points in the series came from drives to the basket. Spo has given him more freedom and I think it's better than just standing in the corner for the team and probably for his own confidence.

(05-27-2013 11:21 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  The Heat are a smart team man. The players on that team are some of the only ones in the league who sacrifice money for a chance to play on a great team.


For all the talk about how unstoppable the Heat and Lebron are, remember Lebron has been to the finals 3 times and won 1 time. And who knows if this Heat team can/will stay together past next year...

Saying that Miami is unstoppable has nothing to do with LeBron having been in 3 finals. The first finals was over before it even started. LeBron was playing with a bunch of nobodies against Duncan and Ginobili in their prime. Against Dallas he had no post-up game and he choked during that series. He is a much better and completely different player now.

I agree with your assessment though that the Heat players are very smart and we have seen that not all players want to leave money on the table to play for a championship team. If they can win a back to back title this year they will at least be in the conversation of teams with dominant runs. And they at least have one more season before Riley and Arison decide if they want to keep the team together.

(05-27-2013 11:37 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  I like Simmons as a writer more than I do his tv work. Grantland has some great pieces on it. On camera he gets sucked into the foolishness of the others on the set. There are excellent sports BOOKS, but day-to-day sports media is lacking.

Simmons is actually a good analyst and you are right, his writing on Grantland and the podcasts he does are very informative. I am not sure that it translates on TV.

(05-27-2013 02:18 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Boy, was I wrong about the Grizzlies. I thought they had a chance. I though Gasol and Z-Bo would be able to muscle Duncan and Splitter. They swept the Spurs just 2 years ago. I thought the Spurs were getting older and the Grizz were getting better. The Grizz really miss OJ Mayo. But, give all the credit to the Spurs, they have the best coach, they added some great players (Green, Leonard, Diaw, etc.), Tim Duncan actually looks like he got younger. Parker is in his prime and added the jumpshot, Manu is still Manu.

It's an honor to watch the Spurs.

Can they beat the Heat? We'll see..

I actually had the Spurs in 6. I was shocked that a lot of people around me were picking the Grizzlies. The Spurs are much healthier than when they lost in 2011 and have are a better team overall in terms of talent, their system, and execution. I really think the last two seasons have been Parker's prime and to me he has become a top 5-7 player in this league.

People like to harp on CP3, Rose and Westbrook but don't know that since he was drafted he is first among PGs for points, second in assists, and the only Finals MVP.

If I am starting a team today to win a championship next season, I am taking Parker over any PG.

The basketball fan in me is really salivating at the prospect of Heats vs. Spurs. Two offensive juggernauts that also play defense, move the ball, and play like a team.

I am a LeBron fan but I am so torn on who to root for. On one hand, I agree with Bill Simmons that Duncan has been the best player of this generation (since MJ's retirement) and would like to see him get his 5th. On the other hand, LeBron can't lose any more finals without hurting his legacy. He has to go perfect for rest of his finals' appearances.

Objectively, I am picking the Heat in 6/7. Miami is deep this year just like the Spurs, their best player is playing better than anybody else in the league, and they execute well. A Spurs win would not shock me, however.


(05-27-2013 04:11 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  I just finished Phil Jackson's new memoir "Eleven Rings" and wow was I blown away. He did it with a ghost writer, but it was clear most of the book was Jackson himself narrating.

Jax is a super alpha in much of what he does and it's the sole reason he's won 11 championships. You could give any modern coach, sans Popovich the same level of talent and watch it hilariously explode in their face.

It's a tremendous alpha leadership book for anyone who is a fan of the game.

I'm on mobile right now, but would anyone like me to do a more thorough write up of the book?

Wouldn't Pat Riley be in the conversation as well? He coached a lot of loaded Lakers' teams with incredible talent (Magic, Kareem etc.).

As Gio said, please leave a detailed review.


@Gio: Welcome back to the thread. I saw you posting on other threads but come on man. We are down to our last 4 teams and the playoffs will be over sooner than later now. You gotta post more often in this thread.
05-27-2013 07:48 PM
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Post: #533
RE: The NBA Thread
I enjoy the weekday musings of The Basketball Jones podcast.

http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/

The Grantland Network picks up their Friday "Overdose" show and also has Simmons' B.S. Report, which airs quite sporadically but is usually pretty good.
05-27-2013 08:25 PM
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Post: #534
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 04:11 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  I just finished Phil Jackson's new memoir "Eleven Rings" and wow was I blown away. He did it with a ghost writer, but it was clear most of the book was Jackson himself narrating.

Jax is a super alpha in much of what he does and it's the sole reason he's won 11 championships. You could give any modern coach, sans Popovich the same level of talent and watch it hilariously explode in their face.

It's a tremendous alpha leadership book for anyone who is a fan of the game.

I'm on mobile right now, but would anyone like me to do a more thorough write up of the book?

I'll def have to read 11 rings. Never knew that existed.

Breaks of the Game is my all time fav book.

I can understand when people hate on Bill Simmons on air personality but as far as his writings on basketball, they are good. You can tell how much he loves the game.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
05-27-2013 09:24 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
What's everyone's most memorable NBA game they have attended?

I went to game 5 in the 05 finals at the Palace when the Stones played the Spurs. I remember when Robert Horry took over in the 4th quarter and OT to win the game. Everyone remembers that corner 3 that Robert hit to send it into OT. I'll never forget how quiet it was and the sick feeling in my stomach. The first time I wanted to cry at any sporting event that I was a spectator. I still can't forgive Rasheed for leaving him wide open.

Facepalm

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05-27-2013 09:34 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
"11 Rings" just came out a week or so ago.

I was on a business trip this week, so I was able to bang it out while traveling.
05-27-2013 09:44 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Tony Parker absolutely lighting fire to the Grizz right now, might be the best PG in the game. Honestly, no one runs the pick and roll better.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 10:43 PM by Joga Bonito.)
05-27-2013 10:42 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
As a long time Spurs fan, since the days of the Admiral, in the early 90's, I can only say that this Spurs team is right up there with the other great teams that won championships in the past 13 years. And with Tony Parker, they have a man capable of leading them to yet another title this year. My money is on TP to get the Finals' MVP and I wouldn't be surprised to see Lebron and co chock yet again. And I would go as far as saying that I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pacers upset the Heats and eliminate them...Game 1, the Pacers got robbed and with a bit more experienced, could have and should have been 2-0 up going home.

Btw, for next season, any news on what would be the moves/transfers in the summer?

P.S. Any other Spurs fans in here?
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2013 11:13 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
05-27-2013 11:12 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Tony effing Parker. He was in F you mode.

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05-27-2013 11:12 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 11:12 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  Tony effing Parker. He was in F you mode.

The man's poetry in motion. Every mid-range shot, every layup looks effortless. Then he comes to the post-game with his perpetual three day stubble and bashful affect and has to pretend to downplay how awesome he played.

Meanwhile, somewhere Eva Longoria watches on ESPN and lets out a wistful sigh.

I've become such a hater about the NBA, but I'm excited to see what happens when this team collides with Miami. If perchance it's Indiana, I'll only be excited to see Parker, Duncan et al raise up the championship trophy.
05-27-2013 11:32 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
For some reason Parker always gets sold short when the discussion of the best point guards in the NBA comes up. Part of it is because he's never been considered a great defender, and his advanced metrics don't match Chris Paul's. In one breath, they'll talk about how rings are what matter, then leave him out, or mention him as an afterthought. It's silly. For all the love Chris Paul gets, I saw him get thrown out of the game where his team got eliminated from the playoffs. Yeah...great leader. Even now, with Tony slowing down a little from being beaten up a bit over his career (remember, he was drafted at age 19, so he's been around a while), he still blows by cats and gets to the rim pretty much at will. He responded to challenges from his coach (Pop considered bringing in Jason Kidd a few years ago), and has improved steadily over his career (which so many players don't do after years in the league). Can't shoot? Tony worked on that, and now you can't let him shoot, AND you can't stay in front of him either. He's come up with his biggest performances when it has most mattered (NBA Finals MVP, has gotten better each game in this last series).

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05-28-2013 11:16 AM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
I've noticed that people tend to overrate so called pure point guards since scoring PGs don't fit the traditional definition of what is considered to be a point guard. The problem with Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo, so called pure point guards, is that ironically as point guards they dominate the ball to the point that this destroys any kind of continuity on the offensive end.

The Celtics embodied this perfectly when they had infinitely better ball movement without Rondo on the lineup. The Clippers were so predictable this season on O for the simple fact that the defense could just hone in on CP3, stagnating their offense badly. It's easy to see why CP3s teams have either lost momentum later in a playoff series(Spurs vs. Hornets anyone?) or flat out underachieved. Contrast this with TP, who brings the ball up passes the the ball off and has other teammates do the playmaking at times resulting in much better offensively continuity since the everyone touches the ball. It's also worth noting in the playoffs that CP3 does not get it done against more or or equally talented PGs. Chauncey abusing CP3 in the 08-09 playoffs is a good example, with TP consistently outperforming Paul in head to head matchups.

Historically a guy with Paul's playing style does not reach the finals if he's the PG. If Paul would look to develop Blake more in the post as well as look to screen for others more often, the Clips offense would look much better. TP has earned the benefit of the doubt as far as staking claim to the top PG throne. CP3 is still a great player, but when you dig deep into his game it's easy to see why he hasn't had the success that many have expected.

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05-28-2013 12:13 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-27-2013 07:48 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @Gio: Welcome back to the thread. I saw you posting on other threads but come on man. We are down to our last 4 teams and the playoffs will be over sooner than later now. You gotta post more often in this thread.

Thanks Slayer,

I read this thread every day, its the last thing I do before bed. I watch the games then I check this thread.

You know my interests in life are:

1) Day Game
2) Basketball

The Spurs really surprised me. I thought they were too old. They are fortunate that Russell Westbrook got hurt because if he was healthy things might have been different. Spurs-Thunder would have been a hell of a series.

Can't wait for Pacers-Miami tonight. I'm not counting Indiana out just yet. They can make this series interesting.

If it is Miami-San Antonio, will are all in for a treat. That could be a good one.

(05-27-2013 09:34 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  I went to game 5 in the 05 finals at the Palace when the Stones played the Spurs. I remember when Robert Horry took over in the 4th quarter and OT to win the game. Everyone remembers that corner 3 that Robert hit to send it into OT. I'll never forget how quiet it was and the sick feeling in my stomach. The first time I wanted to cry at any sporting event that I was a spectator. I still can't forgive Rasheed for leaving him wide open.

I will never forget that game. Robert Horry was already a legend but on that night he became an even bigger legend.

He took that game over in the 4th. Remember the dunk he got when he stretched out and barely squeezed it in rim? He sort of hurt his rib on the play?

What a game!

I was sure that the Pistons were gonna win back to back championships and I think they would have if Rasheed hadn't left Horry wide open!!! Why did Rasheed leave Horry? That was the greatest mistake of Rasheeds career. I think it cost them a 2nd championship.

This still brings a tear to my eye..





(05-27-2013 11:32 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  Meanwhile, somewhere Eva Longoria watches on ESPN and lets out a wistful sigh.

Did you guys see Tony Kiss that girls as he came off the court last night?

She looked a little like Eva. Tony likes those Spanish looking girls.

(05-28-2013 11:16 AM)Timoteo Wrote:  For some reason Parker always gets sold short when the discussion of the best point guards in the NBA comes up.

Yes, he does. Because the Spurs are boring to the average fan and average dipshit sports writer. Only the true fans who are knowledgeable about the game have appreciated Tony for years.

I think last night performance did a lot for his legacy. Now, everyone knows that he is as good as anyone.

Young guards, work on that jumper as well as lay-ups with both hands and dribbling with both hands!

Bill Simmons? His writings on the NBA are awesome, one of the best minds in the basketball media. However, on tv, they don't really give him a chance to shine. He wants to be serious and talk about real issues and the other guys are mostly making jokes. He needs his own NBA show!
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2013 12:43 PM by Giovonny.)
05-28-2013 12:36 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
If we win...there is our back to back championships..

I still get angry when I see that.

He was unstoppable in the 4th. offensive rebounds killed us.

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05-28-2013 02:06 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(05-28-2013 12:13 PM)iWin Wrote:  I've noticed that people tend to overrate so called pure point guards since scoring PGs don't fit the traditional definition of what is considered to be a point guard. The problem with Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo, so called pure point guards, is that ironically as point guards they dominate the ball to the point that this destroys any kind of continuity on the offensive end.

The Celtics embodied this perfectly when they had infinitely better ball movement without Rondo on the lineup. The Clippers were so predictable this season on O for the simple fact that the defense could just hone in on CP3, stagnating their offense badly. It's easy to see why CP3s teams have either lost momentum later in a playoff series(Spurs vs. Hornets anyone?) or flat out underachieved. Contrast this with TP, who brings the ball up passes the the ball off and has other teammates do the playmaking at times resulting in much better offensively continuity since the everyone touches the ball. It's also worth noting in the playoffs that CP3 does not get it done against more or or equally talented PGs. Chauncey abusing CP3 in the 08-09 playoffs is a good example, with TP consistently outperforming Paul in head to head matchups.

Historically a guy with Paul's playing style does not reach the finals if he's the PG. If Paul would look to develop Blake more in the post as well as look to screen for others more often, the Clips offense would look much better. TP has earned the benefit of the doubt as far as staking claim to the top PG throne. CP3 is still a great player, but when you dig deep into his game it's easy to see why he hasn't had the success that many have expected.

Going back to college, Deron Williams has often gotten the better of Chris Paul also. Williams has struggled the last season and a half or so offensively (since he hurt his wrist that first partial season with the Nets, he hasn't really been right), but he was often seen as the 2nd or 3rd best PG in the league. What I like about him is he looks for his offense if he has a favorable match-up and it benefits the team, but otherwise is pass-first. Phoenix built their whole offense around Steve Nash. When watching them back then, I often noticed how Nash pretty much made the passes that led to the baskets, at least in the half court. If the pass didn't lead to a basket, they got it right back to him. He dribble around, under the basket, pop back out the other side and come back up top with it. They wanted the ball in his hands if someone else wasn't shooting it. I thought Nash should have shot the ball more himself in Phoenix - they may have gotten to a Final or two if he had scored more.

The problem with the sports media is that once a player has been labeled in some way, they don't allow them to shake it (or won't criticize certain great players that are coming up short in a particular area), even when it's proven statistically (and via the eyeball test) that the player has improved in that area. They also don't consider context, who his teammates are, what the coaching philosophy is, etc. They rely on the quick sound bite. Once certain media members make it to a certain level (ESPN), they simply get lazy. They get on camera and clown, and quit doing real analysis.

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05-28-2013 02:32 PM
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Post: #546
RE: The NBA Thread
Not the bigger fan of the current ESPN crew. To many homers, and it's awkward seeing Jalen lead the broadcast when Wilbon has way more experience hosting and leading shows like that. Magic says a lot of nothing, and I think the panel eats a lot of lines to make Magic look good - never thought he has been great on TV.

Van Gundy knows what it is. People ask of he will return to coach? Why when you can still break down plays and film on TV for good pay and better job security. Doug Collins keeps forgetting this and gets drawn in back to the bench where he always leads his teams to improve but then to crash and burn and him leaving on weird terms.

Webber is smart also. You can craft 30 year career as a game analyst, he paid his dues and could easily been placed in a position where he becomes a lead analyst on TNT for many many many years.

I agree with Sam Mitchell also. Dude is extremely smart and IMO was a good coach for the wrong era. NBA babies can't handle a alpha dog telling them how it is. Sam ran things very tough and blunt. He we honest with people but was a caring guy also, a lot of players did not like this. If this was the 90's he would of been a great top end coach.
05-28-2013 03:12 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #547
RE: The NBA Thread
Yeah, healthy Deron was fun to watch since he knew how to balance scoring and being a good facilitator. He could drop 20-10 and clamp the opposing PG as well. His foot injuries have made it tough to regain form but he looked good at the end of this season. Nash was so good that he nearly took a team that viewed defense an afterthought to the finals. If Amare never gets suspended against the Spursllrs who knows. Sadly, they also came a few timely stops short of reaching the pinnacle. I doubt we'll see that kind of team build for a long time again. His efficiency was downright.

Your second paragraph is a big reason why I don't watch ESPN analysts anymore. Simply too much vapid analysis mixed with reactionary BS that makes it hard to take a lot of those analysts seriously. You see this dynamic a ton with the defensive side of the ball especially. A lot of guys have worn out their welcome with their defensive reps especially a lot of superstars like Kobe or Chris Paul. A lot of people see stats like blocks, rebounds, or steals and think " oh this guys must be a great defender", without looking deeper. A good example is when Marcus Camby won the DPOY over Tom Duncan since he had gaudy block and rebound stats. However, Cambys team was actually outscored when he was on the floor, so those numbers didn't tell the whole story. People also tend to look this award within the context of what a guy has to do on offense. For example' " Kobe has to score 35 a night and guard the best player". In all actuality the award should be based purely off what you do on that side of the ball without the context of what a guy does on offense as well.
05-28-2013 03:13 PM
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Timoteo Offline
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Post: #548
RE: The NBA Thread
(05-28-2013 03:13 PM)iWin Wrote:  Yeah, healthy Deron was fun to watch since he knew how to balance scoring and being a good facilitator. He could drop 20-10 and clamp the opposing PG as well. His foot injuries have made it tough to regain form but he looked good at the end of this season. Nash was so good that he nearly took a team that viewed defense an afterthought to the finals. If Amare never gets suspended against the Spursllrs who knows. Sadly, they also came a few timely stops short of reaching the pinnacle. I doubt we'll see that kind of team build for a long time again. His efficiency was downright.

Your second paragraph is a big reason why I don't watch ESPN analysts anymore. Simply too much vapid analysis mixed with reactionary BS that makes it hard to take a lot of those analysts seriously. You see this dynamic a ton with the defensive side of the ball especially. A lot of guys have worn out their welcome with their defensive reps especially a lot of superstars like Kobe or Chris Paul. A lot of people see stats like blocks, rebounds, or steals and think " oh this guys must be a great defender", without looking deeper. A good example is when Marcus Camby won the DPOY over Tom Duncan since he had gaudy block and rebound stats. However, Cambys team was actually outscored when he was on the floor, so those numbers didn't tell the whole story. People also tend to look this award within the context of what a guy has to do on offense. For example' " Kobe has to score 35 a night and guard the best player". In all actuality the award should be based purely off what you do on that side of the ball without the context of what a guy does on offense as well.

I agree regarding Magic. I love him as a man, and a player of course. But he's not good on tv, and I don't think much of his supposed analysis. Wilbon wears on me now also. He's become really arrogant. PTI is still my favorite ESPN show, along with The Sports Reporters (depending who's on the panel), but even on PTI, he's started resorting to the screaming, interrupting when someone's talking, trash-talking nonsense that I dislike so much. Pretty much everyone in the business is afraid to say anything negative about Kobe, because they're afraid of access to him if they insult him. Kobe, from time to time, has wanted the tough defensive assignment. But he isn't on the top offensive player every possession, game in, game out. You can't subject your best offensive player to that. I actually like Jalen Rose because of his honesty. He's told some pretty funny stories about things that have happened on the court and in the locker room during his career. ESPN is more about entertainment than real journalism. Outside the Lines is pretty much the only real journalism, along with E:60 segments. I actually like Tim Cowlishaw, Kevin Blackistone and Israel Guttierez, regulars on Around the Horn, because they are largely anti-hype and clowning, and give straight opinions.

As for Stephen A....I find that his opinions are usually well-formed. He just insists on subjecting us to histrionics and blather, constantly performing. On First Take one day he said that each of them was allotted a certain amount of time to speak, and that he intended to use EVERY second of that allotted time. That's the problem. He insists on making it about HIM, and how much camera time he can get, instead of just delivering concise opinions and/or analysis. It's always a long, drawn-out speech, and it KILLS ME. He's buddied up to a lot of players in his years around the league, so guys DO give him some inside stuff that other guys like Chris Broussard don't get. If you remember in his first go-round on ESPN, he was their key NBA insider. He was on the studio show. He had his OWN show, Quite Frankly. He was still working for the Philadelphia Enquirer at the same time. He was simply over-exposed, and because of his grating style, folks got sick of him so they didn't renew his contract. He even got fired from the Philly Enquirer. This time around they've dialed him back in terms of exposure, but he tries to make the most of his camera time. His brother in stupidity, Skip Bayless, is an absolute joke. His style is also grating in a different way than Stephen A, but he provides the most ridiculous analysis and reasoning I've ever heard from anyone. All he does is trash talk and challenge athletes in order to get them to come on the show. First Take has so much potential with the debate format, but they allow it to be a strictly JV operation.

"The best kind of pride is that which compels a man to do his best when no one is watching."
05-28-2013 03:49 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #549
RE: The NBA Thread
Haha good points. As a top offensive guy you're right about Kobe. It's nearly impossible to clamp a great offensive player and go for 35 every night. I just don't like how he gets rewarded for being amazing on offense when it comes to a defensive award, especially with that you said in mind.

I agree with everything else you said. Skip is simply a contrarian to be a contrarian and it almost seems like he doesn't even believe what he says sometimes lol. Even though ESPN is more about entertainment it's still is annoying to hear those two go at it all the time.
05-28-2013 04:04 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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Post: #550
RE: The NBA Thread
I dislike First Take and Skip Bayless with a passion. That is not journalism, neither is it entertainment. It is simply a show that spews lowest common denominator bullshit with race and player trolling.

If sports journalism (as bad as it is now) is heading towards the way of First Take it's going to be a completely unwatchable, not that it is really watchable right now.

I am actually okay with ESPN NBA Countdown people picking Memphis to win because at least I know they are not trolling. They are using actual reasoning to pick Memphis even though I may disagree with their reasons.

Skip Bayless is a master troll who as Timoteo said challenges players and says unbelievable things which I am 100% sure he does not believe himself. He trolls LBJ, loves Tebow, and throw in the occasional race trolling that this show indulges in you have a complete garbage show.

I actually researched Skip Bayless' background when I first started listening to the show around a couple of years ago. Turns out he was actually a respected journalist but has sold out his principles to get more viewers. I have stopped listening to the show and refuse to give it any clicks/views/whatever.

For this reason I like guys like Bill Simmons, Zach Lowe (who is the best NBA writer in my opinion right now, check out some of his pieces. He breaks down players and teams like a coach would). At least these guys are not trolling and whatever they are saying is researched. You will never agree all the times with an analyst but as long as they have basis for their position, I can understand it.

Maybe some of us from this thread should get an NBA show lol. I am sure we will do a better job than 90% of the current analysts out there.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2013 04:19 PM by TheSlayer.)
05-28-2013 04:10 PM
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