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Freelancing on Elance etc.
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #26
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-04-2013 09:36 PM)MattC Wrote:  I earn over 2 grand a month in my full time job so I really don't care about money from this at the moment. I'm thinking longer term and by January want to be able to find work without too much hassle (which I guess is done by having a decent sized portfolio and 5-10 reputation points as a good base) as that's when I'll be relying on this full time. If that means putting up $5 an hour to get a few jobs now then so be it.

What do you reckon?

I reckon you should try to get better-compensated for your time even if the money is a non-issue right now. The better work you do, the better it'll look on your portfolio too. And if someone looks in your feedback and sees you've been doing jobs very cheaply for a long time, they might view you as a bottom-dollar writer.

A couple cheap jobs to start and get a couple feedbacks is okay, but after that you want to move up.

You'll probably be fine according to your goals either way, but why not strive higher? A little extra income never hurts.

On another note, if you're absolutely set on just focusing on building your portfolio for now and don't want to spend time marketing, why not just contact some non-profits and offer pro-bono work. You'll probably put more effort into it knowing it's all portfolio rather than for a measly $5 an hour. It'll make you look better in your portfolio, and it may eventually lead to high-paying work through the same organization or through referrals.

You might even specifically ask for referrals after establishing a relationship.

(09-05-2013 01:35 AM)scandibro Wrote:  As a buyer on those kind of sites, one of the things that make me stay away is the abundance of indians and filipinos scamming people or delivering very poor work.

I'd only use it to get started and getting some feedback.

Quite honestly, I think most would have better luck selling their services somewhere like here.

There are much better places to sell than Elance, and the abundance of Indians and Filipinos scamming people is aggravating. But they also make it easier to stand out and compete if you offer real professionalism.

I've had a few members here email me to say they're getting good work using some of the methods I've outlined, so Elance is definitely still not dead.

(09-10-2013 10:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I tried doing this, looking indian probably does not help my cause considering what you've just said above.

Bojangles, what did you try doing? And how hard did you try? Did you just bid a few jobs or did you bid a few hundred jobs?

Looking Indian shouldn't hurt your case if your profile doesn't say you're in India. If you're worried it may, buy a stock photo or use a photo of a friend (with permission). Maybe you could even post a request on fiverr to use someone's photo...

I know it sucks to hide who you are, but why not game the system? Not only that but it creates more anonymity for you, which is never a bad thing, in my personal opinion.

If you have an Indian name, consider making up a pen name. Again, sucks to hide who you are, but I personally like to work the realities of market. I use a pen name just for privacy. There are countless stories of authors who use pen names to sell books - sometimes even "changing" their gender to better suit the market.

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To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 10:27 AM by Beyond Borders.)
09-10-2013 10:24 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Cheers BB. I'll no doubt come to you for advice when I want to start making real money out of this, but it looks as though our thinking is aligned in that I only want to do a few jobs at a cheap rate. I'm producing some good work and just waiting for my second job to give me some feedback. I have another job to do too.

The first job has paid me about $20. The second job I bid $5 for because they said the lower bidder wins, and I was thinking of reputation. They've paid me $10 because they were happy with the work and speed I completed it. The third job I'm getting paid $30 for.

It's adding up. Obviously I'm not going to turn my nose up at money but the more I'm doing this and the more positivity from clients I'm getting, the more I think I can make a success at this. At the moment I'm just playing the game. Another 3 rep points on small, cheap jobs will be fine I think as I didn't anticipate getting as much work as I have this week so quickly. Then I'll increase my rates to $10, will have a few more articles in my portfolio and will start making some better money.

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09-10-2013 11:14 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 11:14 AM)MattC Wrote:  I'm producing some good work and just waiting for my second job to give me some feedback.

Quick tip on teasing that feedback out of new clients.

When you first bid the job, be sure to explicitly state that you're giving them a deep discount because you're just starting out and want to build up referrals - this puts the idea in their head from the get-go and and implies an expectation of reciprocity. It's also leaves the door open to raise prices later; let them know they're getting a bargain.

After you finish the very first article, send it to them, and say something along the lines of, "I'm sending this to you now so I can make sure we're headed in the right direction. Please let me know now if there's anything you want different so I can write all the other articles to suit your tastes - since this is one of my first jobs, I really want to win your 5-star feedback, and I want to make sure you get exactly what you're looking for."

That's off the top of my head; you can tone it down and polish it up as needed.

Note: I do the above with all new clients even later on, though I stop inserting the part about feedback.

Then, when you send the completed articles over, make sure to stress that you're 100% available to make any and all edits needed to get them the articles they want. If you don't think it's laying it on too think (or if you didn't say it in that last message), mention how dedicated you are to 5-star feedback once again.

See how this works? Just keep planting that idea into their head and unless they're a sociopath they'll feel guilty about not leaving you a raving review as long as you produce.

If all this fails and they leave you nothing, you might even send an email over at some point and make sure everything with the articles was okay and if they need edits. Chances are they just forgot at this point and they'll probably be more than happy to jump in there and hook you up if you hooked them up.

It probably goes without saying that a) you've delivered the articles earlier than promised and b) you've written higher word counts than promised.

In essence, you are the man.

Just don't do this kind of stuff at your rates for too long or you're going to undercut the rest of us. LOL

Beyond All Seas

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To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 11:51 AM by Beyond Borders.)
09-10-2013 11:48 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Good tips BB!
Specially of interest and I'll second it that using a pen name is recommended if you have a non mainstream English name or simply for privacy. I admit I didn't think about using someone else's picture, which to be honest, is quite a good idea. And speaking of pics, would you use a head shot professional looking say wearing a suite and tie or a more relaxed and cool one? How about pics showing you doing some cool things like buggy riding, surfing, kite surfing etc...?

Is anyone in here who's a freelancer interested in creating some kind of mastermind group? Where we'd bounce ideas off each other, share experiences and give tips, inspire and if there are guys with different skills, eventually why not, partnering in some projects? Just throwing this as an idea/thought.

Cheers!
09-10-2013 03:34 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 11:14 AM)MattC Wrote:  Cheers BB. I'll no doubt come to you for advice when I want to start making real money out of this, but it looks as though our thinking is aligned in that I only want to do a few jobs at a cheap rate. I'm producing some good work and just waiting for my second job to give me some feedback. I have another job to do too.

The first job has paid me about $20. The second job I bid $5 for because they said the lower bidder wins, and I was thinking of reputation. They've paid me $10 because they were happy with the work and speed I completed it. The third job I'm getting paid $30 for.

It's adding up. Obviously I'm not going to turn my nose up at money but the more I'm doing this and the more positivity from clients I'm getting, the more I think I can make a success at this. At the moment I'm just playing the game. Another 3 rep points on small, cheap jobs will be fine I think as I didn't anticipate getting as much work as I have this week so quickly. Then I'll increase my rates to $10, will have a few more articles in my portfolio and will start making some better money.

What work are you doing and on what site, Elance? I bidded for quite a lot but was competing with Indians etc offering 1000 word articles for a dollar and stuff. I'm not prepared to work for that, my level of English dwarfs theirs.

I've bought a couple of books based on BB's advice, I think I'm going to sack elance off and build my website and just cold email a shit load to get business clients directly.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
09-10-2013 03:38 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Tried Fiverr and got someone who wanted me to write 3 articles for $5.00. I told him that was just not going to happen. Never heard from him again. I suppose I could give it another try, but I'm sure Beyond is right and you have to work hard at it.
Is Elance the best site to use or would other recommend another one?

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09-10-2013 05:46 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Judging by most experienced people in the freelancing world, I'd skip Elance/Guru/Odesk altogether. Takes longer and takes more effort, but the reward is so much higher it's worth the effort. However, it relies on your confidence that you are a top class wordsmith.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
09-10-2013 06:03 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 11:48 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 11:14 AM)MattC Wrote:  I'm producing some good work and just waiting for my second job to give me some feedback.

Quick tip on teasing that feedback out of new clients.

When you first bid the job, be sure to explicitly state that you're giving them a deep discount because you're just starting out and want to build up referrals - this puts the idea in their head from the get-go and and implies an expectation of reciprocity. It's also leaves the door open to raise prices later; let them know they're getting a bargain.

After you finish the very first article, send it to them, and say something along the lines of, "I'm sending this to you now so I can make sure we're headed in the right direction. Please let me know now if there's anything you want different so I can write all the other articles to suit your tastes - since this is one of my first jobs, I really want to win your 5-star feedback, and I want to make sure you get exactly what you're looking for."

That's off the top of my head; you can tone it down and polish it up as needed.

Note: I do the above with all new clients even later on, though I stop inserting the part about feedback.

Then, when you send the completed articles over, make sure to stress that you're 100% available to make any and all edits needed to get them the articles they want. If you don't think it's laying it on too think (or if you didn't say it in that last message), mention how dedicated you are to 5-star feedback once again.

See how this works? Just keep planting that idea into their head and unless they're a sociopath they'll feel guilty about not leaving you a raving review as long as you produce.

If all this fails and they leave you nothing, you might even send an email over at some point and make sure everything with the articles was okay and if they need edits. Chances are they just forgot at this point and they'll probably be more than happy to jump in there and hook you up if you hooked them up.

It probably goes without saying that a) you've delivered the articles earlier than promised and b) you've written higher word counts than promised.

In essence, you are the man.

Just don't do this kind of stuff at your rates for too long or you're going to undercut the rest of us. LOL

Thanks mate. That's really helpful.

In terms of sending the article first to make sure everything is okay and to align everything else with that style, and mentioning availability after completion, that's something I do anyway but I'm going to strengthen the way I say it thanks to your advice.

It comes natural to me that sort of stuff but I suppose a lot of people on that site don't do it.

I'm gonna send you a PM tomorrow with a few other questions.

(09-10-2013 03:34 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Is anyone in here who's a freelancer interested in creating some kind of mastermind group? Where we'd bounce ideas off each other, share experiences and give tips, inspire and if there are guys with different skills, eventually why not, partnering in some projects? Just throwing this as an idea/thought.

Cheers!

I think this is a good idea. If one of us is offered or has a bid accepted for a large project that requires a team of writers, we can confer with eachother to all chip in together if needs be. I originally had this idea when I asked about a job on Elance that would need a team, but I was going to post something similar to what you've suggested a bit further down the line. So, it's good to see that others are sharing the same ideas.

(09-10-2013 03:38 PM)Teedub Wrote:  What work are you doing and on what site, Elance? I bidded for quite a lot but was competing with Indians etc offering 1000 word articles for a dollar and stuff. I'm not prepared to work for that, my level of English dwarfs theirs.

I've bought a couple of books based on BB's advice, I think I'm going to sack elance off and build my website and just cold email a shit load to get business clients directly.

I'm doing it on Elance, yeah. My first job which is ongoing is writing about mobile apps, the second job was a website review, and my next one is writing some articles about one product with different SEO keywords to increase the guy's page rank in Google.

The way I see things, and don't take offence to this because I'm just calling it as it is, is that the guys who have that attitude of not working for much money for what is maybe an hour or so's work aren't the guys that'll be successful with this.

I see the process as basically this:

- You start off and you need a reputation. Work for shit pay to get the reputation because you're not going to get a job asking for $20 an hour or $100 straight off the bat without any references
- Once you've got some reputation, you can increase your rates and have access to more jobs because people can see you're trustworthy
- Your workload may get too much, so you increase your rates again, a few clients drop off but your pay isn't affected
- By now, you're where you want to be. Earning a couple of thousand dollars a month and you can go even further if you want

You may know how good you are, but others don't and very few will take the risk. So to skirt that issue, I just offered my writing services for cheaper than they originally wanted to pay someone to land a job.

I can see how it's not appealing to want to work a few hours for fuck all pay, but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

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(This post was last modified: 09-10-2013 08:34 PM by Matt3B.)
09-10-2013 08:33 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Yeah. I mean, even if you do go the completely independent route, build a site, etc., you're going to need samples of your work. If you already have samples, you should be able to get some of the decent jobs on Elance without already having feedback. I've seen several profiles that hadn't done many jobs but they were obviously bringing experience to the table. I doubt those guys have trouble finding work. If you don't already have samples, you could write your own like BB suggested or you could get paid writing and use those.

I also think getting some experience with working with clients and knowing what they're looking for helps. That being said, there are plenty of jobs on there that even I'm not touching.

@BB (or whoever else knows): What are the restrictions of using work for clients as samples of your work to attract new ones? I've seen this mentioned throughout the other information I've been reading but when so many clients are going to be attributing their work to your name, it doesn't seem to me like you'd be able to take credit for that work in your portfolio. Of course, I may be completely wrong. I know you said something about writing your own samples...do you think that's ultimately the best way?
09-10-2013 09:24 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Thanks for the post BB, I'm just looking at writing articles, I'm going to push on this week.

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

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09-11-2013 07:42 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 08:33 PM)MattC Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 03:38 PM)Teedub Wrote:  What work are you doing and on what site, Elance? I bidded for quite a lot but was competing with Indians etc offering 1000 word articles for a dollar and stuff. I'm not prepared to work for that, my level of English dwarfs theirs.

I've bought a couple of books based on BB's advice, I think I'm going to sack elance off and build my website and just cold email a shit load to get business clients directly.

I'm doing it on Elance, yeah. My first job which is ongoing is writing about mobile apps, the second job was a website review, and my next one is writing some articles about one product with different SEO keywords to increase the guy's page rank in Google.

The way I see things, and don't take offence to this because I'm just calling it as it is, is that the guys who have that attitude of not working for much money for what is maybe an hour or so's work aren't the guys that'll be successful with this.

I see the process as basically this:

- You start off and you need a reputation. Work for shit pay to get the reputation because you're not going to get a job asking for $20 an hour or $100 straight off the bat without any references
- Once you've got some reputation, you can increase your rates and have access to more jobs because people can see you're trustworthy
- Your workload may get too much, so you increase your rates again, a few clients drop off but your pay isn't affected
- By now, you're where you want to be. Earning a couple of thousand dollars a month and you can go even further if you want

You may know how good you are, but others don't and very few will take the risk. So to skirt that issue, I just offered my writing services for cheaper than they originally wanted to pay someone to land a job.

I can see how it's not appealing to want to work a few hours for fuck all pay, but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

"- Once you've got some reputation, you can increase your rates and have access to more jobs because people can see you're trustworthy
- Your workload may get too much, so you increase your rates again, a few clients drop off but your pay isn't affected"

Haha any chance you've nicked that from BB's advice? Wink

As for the what you said, I understand all that completely, but I already have a few samples (I've written for a well known online magazine) of article writing and stuff, and my mate who runs a business is going to let me copywrite some things for him (2 page brochure and some web stuff) so I can use that as a sample too.

I am probably going to go back on to elance and bid for a few more things if you find you are getting through. It was more the not hearing anything than the low pay if I'm honest. That said, BB and a few of the things he pointed me toward were of the opinion that it is possible and recommended you go straight for the higher markets. However, I do suppose you need samples and testimonials.

Haha, BB is going to get absolutely sick to death of us lot pestering him! If you want to look into doing copywriting (specifically commerical copywriting) I recommend The Well Fed Writer. It's like a step by step guide of getting into serious money copywriting. I'm only partially into it, but it's good stuff. I'm seriously looking into making big money from doing it. As long as I put in HOURS of marketing, the rewards are ridiculous. BB will tell you how much some of the top freelancers make (even just the guys who stick to elance) and its over $100,000 a year.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013 08:05 AM by Teedub.)
09-11-2013 07:58 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Haha, I got it from that PDF I told you about but BB reiterated it. Wink

I think whatever you feel will work out for you, will work out for you. It took me a few weeks to get my first client so it's just persistence really. Then, out of my next 10 applications, I got 2 more jobs. So it goes to show really what one good bit of reputation does for you.

If there's a few of us living the freelance lifestyle, earning decent money and traveling, we should all hook up at various countries around the world.

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09-11-2013 09:19 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Question: how does one get paid for freelancing online?

I closed my bank account a while back Sad

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09-11-2013 09:29 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-11-2013 09:19 AM)MattC Wrote:  If there's a few of us living the freelance lifestyle, earning decent money and traveling, we should all hook up at various countries around the world.

That's my plan. Also, we're not U.S citizens so unlike those fellas we're not taxed on citizenship. Just move countries every ninety days and pay no tax!

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09-11-2013 10:05 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 06:03 PM)Teedub Wrote:  Judging by most experienced people in the freelancing world, I'd skip Elance/Guru/Odesk altogether. Takes longer and takes more effort, but the reward is so much higher it's worth the effort. However, it relies on your confidence that you are a top class wordsmith.

If you have the confidence for that, absolutely!
You can start doing pro-bono work for non profit organizations to build up a portfolio. They will be happy to hire you without any credentials and it looks good on your resume if you worked for some org already. You will get better pay and dont have to worry about some asshole destroying your elance rep with a bad review. This is what Carol Tice calls the "underbelly" of freelancing, its how people got jobs before elance and others came on the scene and its where the good jobs are. Old school phone calls to companies and so on.

Elance et al are cool because you can get 10-20 bucks an hour right from the start and sometimes there are good gigs there too (99% is shit though so you have to sift through that).

Quote:Question: how does one get paid for freelancing online?

I closed my bank account a while back Sad

Without a bank account how do you get paid AT ALL?
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013 01:22 PM by w00t.)
09-11-2013 01:20 PM
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Post: #41
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-11-2013 01:20 PM)w00t Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 06:03 PM)Teedub Wrote:  Judging by most experienced people in the freelancing world, I'd skip Elance/Guru/Odesk altogether. Takes longer and takes more effort, but the reward is so much higher it's worth the effort. However, it relies on your confidence that you are a top class wordsmith.

If you have the confidence for that, absolutely!
You can start doing pro-bono work for non profit organizations to build up a portfolio. They will be happy to hire you without any credentials and it looks good on your resume if you worked for some org already. You will get better pay and dont have to worry about some asshole destroying your elance rep with a bad review. This is what Carol Tice calls the "underbelly" of freelancing, its how people got jobs before elance and others came on the scene and its where the good jobs are. Old school phone calls to companies and so on.

Elance et al are cool because you can get 10-20 bucks an hour right from the start and sometimes there are good gigs there too (99% is shit though so you have to sift through that).

Quote:Question: how does one get paid for freelancing online?

I closed my bank account a while back Sad

Without a bank account how do you get paid AT ALL?

Cash or check, if all else fails I use someone else's account.

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Game is the difference between a broke average looking dude in a 2nd tier city turning bad bitch feminists into maids and fucktoys and a well to do lawyer with 50x the dough taking 3 dates to bang broads in philly.
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013 01:41 PM by Cattle Rustler.)
09-11-2013 01:40 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
I'm greatly interested in this. Going to be doing some extensive research, and taking some time to think about it for the next week before I attempt to dive in.

A couple early thoughts that come to mind..

In the process of marketing myself, where I'd present something like a resume, description, picture of myself and other information; how would being a university student factor in?

I don't have much job experience besides fast food and restaurant serving gigs, so I doubt those would in any way benefit me online.

The only idea so far that I think I could benefit from would be to state my major and university. Maybe some of the material potential employers have for me is very relevant to what I study so that could help.

Although I am not as established, I want to make the most of it.

What do you guys think?
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2013 11:52 PM by Nascimento.)
09-11-2013 11:48 PM
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Capitao,
If you're thinking of becoming a freelance writer, none of that crap that would apply to a regular resume with your work/school experiences applies. All you need to have is a basic one-two page site using WP with a list of 5-10 reasons why they should hire you, a few samples of your writing (ideally 5-10), a way to contact you and your rates on your site. That's it. If you need help with the site, let me know and I'll help you with that.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 12:51 AM by Vacancier Permanent.)
09-12-2013 12:47 AM
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Cattle Rustler Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-11-2013 11:48 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I'm greatly interested in this. Going to be doing some extensive research, and taking some time to think about it for the next week before I attempt to dive in.

A couple early thoughts that come to mind..

In the process of marketing myself, where I'd present something like a resume, description, picture of myself and other information; how would being a university student factor in?

I don't have much job experience besides fast food and restaurant serving gigs, so I doubt those would in any way benefit me online.

The only idea so far that I think I could benefit from would be to state my major and university. Maybe some of the material potential employers have for me is very relevant to what I study so that could help.

Although I am not as established, I want to make the most of it.

What do you guys think?

Put stuff that you learned on your job like fast customer service, attention to detail, and whatnot. You could also make up stuff and give yourself a freelancing title on your resume going back 2 years, no one is going to check.

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09-12-2013 12:51 AM
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Post: #45
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 05:32 AM by WanderingSoul.)
09-12-2013 05:32 AM
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Post: #46
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
That's pretty bloody awesome Rio. A video proposal will put you streets ahead of all the Indians/Filipinos etc, as you can include humour etc, that just wouldn't be possible unless people have native/extremely high level of bilingual-language skill.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
09-12-2013 06:20 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Good article.
Can anyone recommend a website or guide to basic business writing style? I've been writing my own material for years, but some of the nuances of business writing ( placement of parentheses, bullet points, etc, abbreviations) escapes me.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
09-12-2013 07:29 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #48
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 03:34 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  And speaking of pics, would you use a head shot professional looking say wearing a suite and tie or a more relaxed and cool one? How about pics showing you doing some cool things like buggy riding, surfing, kite surfing etc...?

I'd say this completely depends on your niche and brand.

Quote:Is anyone in here who's a freelancer interested in creating some kind of mastermind group? Where we'd bounce ideas off each other, share experiences and give tips, inspire and if there are guys with different skills, eventually why not, partnering in some projects? Just throwing this as an idea/thought.

I may be interested in this. If we do it though, I say we don't fuck around with amateur shit though - let's hack the industry. I mean, of course we'd have to talk about basic stuff for the newbs, but dreaming big would be key.

At the same time, I'm thinking of reviving a website I was once building to teach people to freelance for location independence. Maybe I should focus my energy there. Could even add a private forum to it, I suppose.

I've also got half a mind to start hustling clients myself and put together a team. Anyone interested? Obviously I'd pay you a bit less than what I'd be making and turn it into a business for myself, but it would make it a snap for guys who don't want to deal with the business and marketing side of it.

(09-10-2013 09:24 PM)Enigma Wrote:  @BB (or whoever else knows): What are the restrictions of using work for clients as samples of your work to attract new ones? I've seen this mentioned throughout the other information I've been reading but when so many clients are going to be attributing their work to your name, it doesn't seem to me like you'd be able to take credit for that work in your portfolio. Of course, I may be completely wrong. I know you said something about writing your own samples...do you think that's ultimately the best way?

It's a good idea to ask clients before using stuff for your portfolio. Also, put it in a downloadable PDF or something like that so it isn't sitting on a page of your site getting spidered by Google.

There are plenty of other ways to come up with samples. When just starting out, you could honestly use essays from school with beginner clients. If you want the big bucks though, write something pro.

Best way? Pro bono work for non-profits or start your own blog and build a following. A lot of good clients these days want to see you have a blog going and a Twitter and Facebook account that's pulling traffic.

(09-11-2013 10:05 AM)Teedub Wrote:  
(09-11-2013 09:19 AM)MattC Wrote:  If there's a few of us living the freelance lifestyle, earning decent money and traveling, we should all hook up at various countries around the world.

That's my plan. Also, we're not U.S citizens so unlike those fellas we're not taxed on citizenship. Just move countries every ninety days and pay no tax!

Lucky fucking bastards....

(09-11-2013 11:48 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  In the process of marketing myself, where I'd present something like a resume, description, picture of myself and other information; how would being a university student factor in?

I don't have much job experience besides fast food and restaurant serving gigs, so I doubt those would in any way benefit me online.

The only idea so far that I think I could benefit from would be to state my major and university. Maybe some of the material potential employers have for me is very relevant to what I study so that could help.

Learn to sell the shit out of yourself based on any angle you can work.

I painted myself as some type of animal whisperer due to having owned dogs and freshwater fish before. haha I made myself sound like some type of fitness expert based on having experience in basic training, played sports in high school, took some martial arts, and took one class about designing workout programs at a jc. Next thing you know I'm Jack Fucking-Lalanne. My one semester studying international business and a summer in two countries abroad turned me into some kind of expert in international business.

lol Sounds silly but when you're a writer you can pull this type of shit off. If you read the stuff I wrote and then heard how it actually fit into my life, you'd laugh your ass off but most of it was (technically) true.

People expect you to hype yourself a bit - get out there and hustle!

(09-12-2013 07:29 AM)ColSpanker Wrote:  Good article.
Can anyone recommend a website or guide to basic business writing style? I've been writing my own material for years, but some of the nuances of business writing ( placement of parentheses, bullet points, etc, abbreviations) escapes me.

The Yahoo! Style Guide: The Ultimate Sourcebook for Writing, Editing, and Creating Content for the Digital World

Beyond All Seas

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To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
09-12-2013 11:16 AM
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
As usual, great tips BB!
Just to add to those, I'd say for beginners, a good way to start with your samples is to go to ezinearticles, do a search on any keyword you may be interested, and re-write 5-10 of these articles in your own words. Fastest and easiest way to build yourself a decent initial portfolio. Also, agreed with BB that you should emphasize on any skill/experience you may have. If you're say a fishing enthusiast, mention it on your About me page on your site that while you can write on any topic, your topics of expertise are fishing, camping, hiking, travel, boxing, gaming, sports, music, etc..You can also use your experience in your previous working years and mention that you're an expert in whatever field/industry you were working before.

If you speak fluently and can write a 2nd or 3rd language, mention that as well on your page. And offer to write articles, blog posts, etc...in that language as well. But I'd be charging more on articles in other languages than English. This is what I'm also doing on my site as I'm targeting the bilingual French/English market. And add 3-5 articles in that language on your portfolio.

Regarding the freelancing mastermind group, agreed that we'd need to keep it high level to make it worthwhile. I'm also part of another freelancing mastermind, one of the best out there. It's not free and not cheap, but well worth every penny of it. Learning a ton there from the pros and will gladly share some of what I am learning there in our mastermind. I'll share some specific tips that will help specially the new guys get started.

In this mastermind group, we can have blueprints/guidelines on every aspect of not only the writing but every thing freelancing as well as when it gets big, have monthly and eventually, weekly mastermind calls where we'd cover certain topics and people can ask questions live. These mastermind calls would be recorded and posted in the members' back office. There are a lot of things that can be done with this and if done properly, it can be an amazing tool/resource for the community.

BB, interested in partnering up and building such a community together, you and me? I'm very interested in creating and building something like this.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 11:43 AM by Vacancier Permanent.)
09-12-2013 11:39 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #50
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-12-2013 11:39 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  As usual, great tips BB!
Just to add to those, I'd say for beginners, a good way to start with your samples is to go to ezinearticles, do a search on any keyword you may be interested, and re-write 5-10 of these articles in your own words. Fastest and easiest way to build yourself a decent initial portfolio. Also, agreed with BB that you should emphasize on any skill/experience you may have. If you're say a fishing enthusiast, mention it on your About me page on your site that while you can write on any topic, your topics of expertise are fishing, camping, hiking, travel, boxing, gaming, sports, music, etc..You can also use your experience in your previous working years and mention that you're an expert in whatever field/industry you were working before.

If you speak fluently and can write a 2nd or 3rd language, mention that as well on your page. And offer to write articles, blog posts, etc...in that language as well. But I'd be charging more on articles in other languages than English. This is what I'm also doing on my site as I'm targeting the bilingual French/English market. And add 3-5 articles in that language on your portfolio.

To add to that, I usually don't talk about all that stuff on my profile. I may expound on my experience in my main niches, but selling myself niche-wise usually comes when tailoring my bid for the job.

Quote:Regarding the freelancing mastermind group, agreed that we'd need to keep it high level to make it worthwhile. I'm also part of another freelancing mastermind, one of the best out there. It's not free and not cheap, but well worth every penny of it. Learning a ton there from the pros and will gladly share some of what I am learning there in our mastermind. I'll share some specific tips that will help specially the new guys get started.

In this mastermind group, we can have blueprints/guidelines on every aspect of not only the writing but every thing freelancing as well as when it gets big, have monthly and eventually, weekly mastermind calls where we'd cover certain topics and people can ask questions live. These mastermind calls would be recorded and posted in the members' back office. There are a lot of things that can be done with this and if done properly, it can be an amazing tool/resource for the community.

BB, interested in partnering up and building such a community together, you and me? I'm very interested in creating and building something like this.

Possibly, VP - and thanks for having me in mind. As usual, I've got several projects on the table and hesitant to become scattered. What you're talking about also sounds like a lot of work - if I was going that extensive it would be a business project for me rather than just getting together with a group of like-minded guys.

I'll pm you to shoot the shit.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 12:12 PM by Beyond Borders.)
09-12-2013 11:51 AM
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