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Freelancing on Elance etc.
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Danke w00t!
I'll check those sites.

Cheers!
10-11-2013 12:22 AM
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Post: #127
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Sometimes I'm amazed at how stupid business owners are.

Have one potential client who needs 150 new customers on monthly contracts to his brick and mortar business in 3 months, in a very small city (less than 100k), and wants me to guarantee it. I need to send him 300 appointments to hit this number he says. If they don't get this many signups, the business is in trouble. He wants me to offer him "insurance" if I don't hit the goal, whatever the fuck "insurance" means in this situation.

So basically he needs me to magically quadruple his business in 3 months. Has a super shit website that will convert no one into an appointment. Has no email list, no Facebook following to market to, no nothing. Not to mention his business itself seems like complete shit.

To top it off, the previous 3 months he's signed up less than 15 new customers per month. Now he wants me to come in and guarantee 50 new per month?

I was excited for this job because on the surface it appeared to be right up my alley. Almost my dream client. Upon further inspection, aside from the dude being a borderline fraud, he also has completely unrealistic expectations.

Elance should give me my 6 fuckin connects back.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 01:19 AM by WanderingSoul.)
10-11-2013 01:17 AM
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Jasper Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Quick query to Beyond Borders, or anyone else who uses a pen name. How do you go about this? Do you eventually tell clients your real name or that you are using a pen name. Also would you change all emails, PayPal, skype etc to suit this? Otherwise wouldn't it look a little off. I'm just curious to see how you go about it and appearing professional.
10-11-2013 03:05 AM
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Magyarphile Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Just wanted to thank everyone for the wealth of info given in this thread, particular BeyondBorders. I had no idea that there was money to be made in freelance writing before joining this forum. It gave me the needed kick in the ass to pursue my dreams...
10-11-2013 04:45 AM
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Post: #130
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 03:05 AM)Jasper Wrote:  Quick query to Beyond Borders, or anyone else who uses a pen name. How do you go about this? Do you eventually tell clients your real name or that you are using a pen name. Also would you change all emails, PayPal, skype etc to suit this? Otherwise wouldn't it look a little off. I'm just curious to see how you go about it and appearing professional.

I generally do not bring it up with my clients unless it comes up. I use my pen name for nearly everything business-related I do online - blogs, affiliate projects, sign-ups for web tools, writing website, all accounts used for business, and my books on Amazon. Even my gmail account is [email protected] (name being my pen name).

It's pretty much my entire online identity. Even on my personal Facebook account where I associate with family I use my a slick nickname. So the only place my real name is used anywhere online is tucked away in the back-end info of a private email account, on my PayPal accounts, and a few other places where the gov name is required.

In the beginning, however, it took some getting used to. At the time I was using my real name more often online and wasn't accustomed to it. There were a couple times where I signed a message to a client with my real name, throwing them for a loop when they thought my pen name was the real one. lol I've also had a couple clients who paid via PayPal shoot me a message wondering why there was someone else's name on the info when they sent me a payment - more concerned they had the wrong account than anything else. It'll also come up if clients want W2s or to shoot you a check or wire direct deposit.

Answer to the first issue is simple caution, I suppose, and getting used to your fake persona. The more you take on that persona online the less of these mistakes.

As for the PayPal issue, I get around it now by always making sure to send a PayPal request or invoice for payment, in which I add my business and pen name to the subject line to make it clear that it's me.

In the small handful of cases where it did come up it really wasn't a huge deal. I just explained to them that I use a pen name for business and privacy reasons, and we moved on. I've never had anyone get awkward about it, but then, I've a pretty good way of talking to customers and making them comfortable - if your customer service skills or personality are off, I could see them looking at you a little suspiciously, wondering if there was something shady going on.

I do think it would be ideal to apply for a fictitious business name and open up financial accounts under your pen name though. That would solve any issues and make you legit. Like many things, I just haven't gotten around to it.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 05:12 AM by Beyond Borders.)
10-11-2013 05:08 AM
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EuroSlumming Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
For the more experienced guys what kind of money do you pull in? I see some mention of $100 per hour clients but once this is averaged over bid time, research, etc., this must be diluted. Do you have a weekly/monthly level that you aim for?
10-11-2013 05:17 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #132
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 05:17 AM)EuroSlumming Wrote:  For the more experienced guys what kind of money do you pull in? I see some mention of $100 per hour clients but once this is averaged over bid time, research, etc., this must be diluted. Do you have a weekly/monthly level that you aim for?

I typically aim to make $2 - $3K a month but get by just fine on $1K a month sometimes and have even gotten by on less, as I live in Southeast Asia and am a somewhat frugal (and unproductive) person. I'll often only work a day or two a week - sometimes not even that, though sometimes quite a bit more if I'm playing catch-up. Another reason for these low figures is that even when I'm productive, I don't usually aim to make more than these figures; rather, I put the extra time towards other projects I've got going on.

These figures are due to the lifestyle I live, as well as my future goals (which do not include freelancing for the long-term) rather than the business I'm in.

Right now I'm aiming to bring the writing income up and hold it at about 5 or 6K per month though, and I'll be working on a side business doing web design, writing and publishing my books, and working on some IM projects. Planning to pay down a lot of debt from back in the states this year so ramping it up and getting serious about business, even if it means spreading myself thin for a year.

When I say $100 an hour, I'm usually including research time within that but not marketing. This is "billable hours," and thus researching and editing should always be included, while marketing is something you do off the client's "clock," though you'd certainly want to figure it in if analyzing metrics. If marketing time is really eating into your $100 per hour and that's what you aim to make, you can always strive for higher rates.

A lot of pro writers use calculations when figuring out what there rates will be that take into account things like marketing, admin time, health insurance, retirement, etc, to make sure they are bidding accordingly. That's the smart way to do it, and for many high-end writers, $100 an hour is the bottom of the top, if you know what I mean, so you can certainly do better.

Truth be told, however, I very rarely bother to market - only when I need to. Clients tend to stay around for a long time and each client tends to be worth quite a big percentage of my income. I can usually sustain myself on 2 or 3 clients with the ocaissional side jobs, which usually come from other old clients who haven't ordered in a while and pop in for help on a project.

Depending on such a small number of clients is risky. When a client suddenly stops ordering I go through a quick bout of panic but am always able to roust some new leads pretty quickly and get the schedule moving again. It's not a very efficient way to do business - but it comes with the territory when you live in a place like this for a long time. You tend to get caught up.

I do not recommend this approach to the business
. It's stressful, counterproductive, and unnecessary. Do about an hour a day of marketing and you should be able to keep yourself pretty secure once you're up and running.

My aim is to reach 3 hours a day 5 days a week of billable hours at $100 an hour. Sustained by 1 hour a day of marketing. Probably best to aim a little higher to account for surprises, setbacks, and fluctuations.

But comes to $6000 a month gross, and the rest of the day I can focus on my other projects, which are more important to me after the bills are paid. Of course, it'll take time to reach those rates consistently again, so the idea will be to lock in the 15 hours and then focus on marketing to bring it up, replacing low-quality clients for the more lucrative ones over time until I reach my goal.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 06:13 AM by Beyond Borders.)
10-11-2013 06:07 AM
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TheMan Offline
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Post: #133
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(09-10-2013 10:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I tried doing this, looking indian probably does not help my cause considering what you've just said above.

that is a shitty deal Confused
10-11-2013 06:45 AM
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darklightdispatch Offline
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Post: #134
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 06:07 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  My aim is to reach 3 hours a day 5 days a week of billable hours at $100 an hour. Sustained by 1 hour a day of marketing.
What exactly does marketing consist of for this sort of thing?
10-11-2013 07:10 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #135
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 07:10 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  
(10-11-2013 06:07 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  My aim is to reach 3 hours a day 5 days a week of billable hours at $100 an hour. Sustained by 1 hour a day of marketing.
What exactly does marketing consist of for this sort of thing?

You can't be serious. lol

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
10-11-2013 07:32 AM
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Post: #136
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
So whoever it is hiring for help on making a PUA site, i've applied, hire me, I'm the best writer on here Big Grin

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

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10-11-2013 07:39 AM
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pitt Offline
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Post: #137
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Guys, I hate to be asking questions but I have no other option.

I am currently based in DR (Dominican Republic) and the automated system on elance assumes that this is my permanent location. I am trying to change my location to United Kingdom but the system tells me that they will need to verify my location by calling my phone. I guess I will have to use DR as my location but I am sure that clients may ''discriminate'' me based on my location. Is any way to get around this?
10-11-2013 08:08 AM
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pitt Offline
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Post: #138
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 06:45 AM)TheMan Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 10:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I tried doing this, looking indian probably does not help my cause considering what you've just said above.

that is a shitty deal Confused


I love the ass on your picture, who is she?
10-11-2013 08:09 AM
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WanderingSoul Offline
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Post: #139
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 08:08 AM)pitt Wrote:  Guys, I hate to be asking questions but I have no other option.

I am currently based in DR (Dominican Republic) and the automated system on elance assumes that this is my permanent location. I am trying to change my location to United Kingdom but the system tells me that they will need to verify my location by calling my phone. I guess I will have to use DR as my location but I am sure that clients may ''discriminate'' me based on my location. Is any way to get around this?

My buddy here in BKK has the same problem.

Google around, I'd figure there is some sort of way to work around this. Possibly by using a buddies phone number and having him do it for you?
10-11-2013 08:48 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #140
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 08:08 AM)pitt Wrote:  Guys, I hate to be asking questions but I have no other option.

I am currently based in DR (Dominican Republic) and the automated system on elance assumes that this is my permanent location. I am trying to change my location to United Kingdom but the system tells me that they will need to verify my location by calling my phone. I guess I will have to use DR as my location but I am sure that clients may ''discriminate'' me based on my location. Is any way to get around this?

It'll cost you jobs but I worked around Thailand on my profile for years.

But buy an online number for a month at Skype, and base it in America. If I remember correctly, you trigger the verification yourself, so all you have to do is be sitting there at your computer, pick up, listen to the code, and type it in.

I believe this is how I pulled the same thing off earlier this year.

EDIT: You could also do like Rio said and have them call a friend, with the friend getting you online immediately to tell you the code so you can input it. I haven't done that with elance but with other types of services.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 09:07 AM by Beyond Borders.)
10-11-2013 08:54 AM
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Let me take a stab at it:
Have a girl on Fiverr scream/yell/paint/draw/sing your URL in the intersection near her. Banana Right BB?
Think outside the box marketing at its absolute best!!!Big Grin


(10-11-2013 07:10 AM)darklightdispatchpid=553572 Wrote:  What exactly does marketing consist of for this sort of thing?
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 11:01 AM by Vacancier Permanent.)
10-11-2013 10:59 AM
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Post: #142
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 10:59 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Let me take a stab at it:
Have a girl on Fiverr scream/yell/paint/draw/sing your URL in the intersection near her. Banana
Think outside the box marketing at its absolute best!!!Big Grin


(10-11-2013 07:10 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  
What exactly does marketing consist of for this sort of thing?

haha Yeah, much easier than reading this entire thread of how to market on freelance sites, that's for sure. Tongue

Speaking of fiverr, hiring someone on fiverr could be another solution to Pitt's problem - cheaper than a Skype number.

Then again, a U.S. number can come in handy when you're running an online biz.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2013 11:04 AM by Beyond Borders.)
10-11-2013 11:01 AM
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Enigma Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 05:08 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I do think it would be ideal to apply for a fictitious business name and open up financial accounts under your pen name though. That would solve any issues and make you legit. Like many things, I just haven't gotten around to it.

BB is living that James Bond life. Here I am using my real name like a sucker Confused
10-11-2013 01:07 PM
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Post: #144
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-11-2013 01:07 PM)Enigma Wrote:  
(10-11-2013 05:08 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I do think it would be ideal to apply for a fictitious business name and open up financial accounts under your pen name though. That would solve any issues and make you legit. Like many things, I just haven't gotten around to it.

BB is living that James Bond life. Here I am using my real name like a sucker Confused

http://HowToBeInvisible.com

If you really want to go Bond...

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
10-11-2013 09:34 PM
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Guys,
Check this, very inspirational success story of a 16 year Nigerian who built a 50K+/year freelance biz from Nigeria!
http://freelanceswitch.com/start/freelan...-business/

Tons of great tips and resources there!

Time to stop being lazy!!!
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 01:15 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
10-12-2013 01:15 PM
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bojangles Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
Damn it, so this PUA guy isn't even thinking of hiring me despite me being a Bromigo, motherfucker Big Grin how much pickup experience does he want

Here's his website, it's deadly slow so might take a while loading

http://manlyhub.com/how-to-text-a-girl-h...-facebook/

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

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10-12-2013 01:38 PM
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Post: #147
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-12-2013 01:38 PM)bojangles Wrote:  Damn it, so this PUA guy isn't even thinking of hiring me despite me being a Bromigo, motherfucker Big Grin how much pickup experience does he want

Here's his website, it's deadly slow so might take a while loading

http://manlyhub.com/how-to-text-a-girl-h...-facebook/

I stopped counting seconds because it took so long.

"Mi amore!"...wtf? (I hate italians)
"I discovered a wonderful formula. It’s u+i equals 69"....???

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Game is the difference between a broke average looking dude in a 2nd tier city turning bad bitch feminists into maids and fucktoys and a well to do lawyer with 50x the dough taking 3 dates to bang broads in philly.
10-12-2013 01:54 PM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #148
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-12-2013 01:15 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Guys,
Check this, very inspirational success story of a 16 year Nigerian who built a 50K+/year freelance biz from Nigeria!
http://freelanceswitch.com/start/freelan...-business/

Tons of great tips and resources there!

Time to stop being lazy!!!

Awesome article. I checked out his site too and it's a wealth of information. More motivation to move forward with the blog projects I've got going.

The Nigerians (and writers from other countries) are stepping it up. We won't be able to brush them aside as not being our competition for much longer if there are more guys like this out there.

(10-12-2013 01:38 PM)bojangles Wrote:  Damn it, so this PUA guy isn't even thinking of hiring me despite me being a Bromigo, motherfucker Big Grin how much pickup experience does he want

Here's his website, it's deadly slow so might take a while loading

http://manlyhub.com/how-to-text-a-girl-h...-facebook/

Heads up. He may see this link in his stats and read this post.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
10-12-2013 01:54 PM
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Post: #149
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
I know, it's a good cheeky post Big Grin Wink

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

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10-12-2013 01:59 PM
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Post: #150
RE: Freelancing on Elance etc.
(10-12-2013 01:38 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Guys,
Check this, very inspirational success story of a 16 year Nigerian who built a 50K+/year freelance biz from Nigeria!
http://freelanceswitch.com/start/freelan...-business/

Tons of great tips and resources there!

Time to stop being lazy!!!

Damn when I saw that link I was getting all smug like "yeah right nigerian scammers".

But this guy is hustling!

I recently got into guest articles for a side project and have to say I LOVE how easy it is to get a positive reply (comared to knocking on countless doors to get deals). I should really get my website up and start driving some traffic. Really inspiring post thx for sharing.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 02:06 PM by w00t.)
10-12-2013 02:05 PM
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