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The NBA Thread
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Mentavious Offline
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Post: #1126
RE: The NBA Thread
(10-26-2013 11:02 AM)kdolo Wrote:  
(10-25-2013 12:36 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  
(10-24-2013 03:35 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  Things I love:

Women
Travel
Soccer
Fine dining
Wine
Style
Exercise
BASKETBALL

Here's the MaleDefined guide to the NBA:

I'm a Knicks season ticket holder and I made a ton of money last year selling most of my tickets. This year, I have a feeling I'll be using my stash of tickets to take girls on dates rather than selling them off however. The Knicks will be down, down, down. I can't picture this mess winning more than 45 games this year. Moreover I worry, this will explode in the face much like it always does over at The Garden. A ego-maniacal owner, a team run by CAA, and veteran leadership provided by Artest, Melo, and JR have disaster written all over them.

Final Four:

Heat over the Bulls in 7. Epic series. For my money the two best teams in the NBA.
Clippers over the Thunder in 6. If Westbook can't get healthy and back in gear, then I'll go Clips over the Spurs.

Finals:
Heat over the Clippers in 6. Lebron at the peak of his powers. Enjoy it.

21 Things I Think

1. Steph Curry finishes second in the league in scoring. Makes 330 threes.

2. Durant leads the league in scoring at 32.5 a game. Will average 34 while Westbook is down.

3. The Nets get cut down early.

4. Andre Drummond shoots 55% from the line and is an all-star.

5. Kevin Love finishes in the top 6 of MVP voting.

6. Derrick Rose finishes in the top 3 of MVP voting.

7. Kobe doesn't play before the all-star break and averages less than 22 a game.

8. A good coach, great point guard, 3 point shooting, and rim protection is the base for a great team. See the Clippers.

9. Derrick Favors averages 15/10 for a surprisingly decent Jazz team.

10. The Clippers out Rocket the Rockets.

11. Bradley Beal averages 20 a night.

12. Andrew Bynum plays 65 games this year and the Cavs and they're no worse than a 6 seed in the East.

13. JJ Redick stands on the strong side of Paul/Blake pick n' rolls and averages 16 a game.

14. Rajon Rondo is traded.

15. Boogie Cousins joins the 20/10 and 10 games suspended club.

16. Anthony Davis joins the 20/10 and 0 games suspended club.

17. Nic Batum emerges as the Blazers best player on the team. They sneak in as an 8 seed, barring they don't deal Aldridge.

18. Thibs wins coach of the year as the Bulls win 63 and the East's top seed.

19. Victor Oladipo wins ROY shooting less than 40% but makes an all-defensive team.

20. Despite Durant's 32.5 a game, he doesn't win MVP because...

21. With a summer off to rest, Lebron is so transcendentally good that he shoots 55/80/40, wins MVP and DPoY. People will look back 50 years from now on Lebron's 13-14 season.

I have a feeling this will be one of the seasons you'll look back on as one of the greatest ever.

I live in Metro Detroit and I am a Pistons fan.

I hope we can make a deal for Greg Monroe for an athletic forward or maybe a draft pick.

I am excited to see Drummond this year.

Trade Monroe ??? thats insanity.

Never.

Is that sarcasm?

If not, then you think that's not a good idea?

We have two PF now with Smith and Monroe. That forces Smith to play small forward. Last thing we need is for Smith taking jump shots instead of driving, posting and getting rebounds. That does free him up for more fast break opportunities.

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
10-26-2013 01:27 PM
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Sonsowey Offline
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Post: #1127
RE: The NBA Thread
Pistons would do well to move Monroe and try to get some more efficient outside shooting it seems, maybe another good perimeter ball handler. Billups ain't gonna last forever
10-26-2013 03:02 PM
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TheBulldozer Offline
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Post: #1128
RE: The NBA Thread
The decision is Monroe or Drummond. Can't give Drummond big money with Monroe on the books. Would be a mega tax hit if they tried it. Doubt the organization wants to be hit with 30-40MM in luxury taxes in a few years.
10-26-2013 03:15 PM
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kdolo Offline
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Post: #1129
RE: The NBA Thread
One of the hardest things to find is a big man who doesn't mind playing like a big man. Furthermore, Monroe is just a baby - just touching the surface of what he'll be.

He wont get moved for any reason.

Smith is going to play small forward no matter what. a Leopard cant change its spots. Get used to seeing Smith jack up 3s and long jumpers all season long.
10-26-2013 03:30 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
The bigger questions for the Pistons:

1. Can Jennings be a real point guard as opposed to a shooting guard in a point guard's body ??

2. Will Jennings play D ??

3. Can Mo Cheeks get through to J. Smith ??? defense, not jacking up jumpers ????
10-26-2013 03:39 PM
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MidWest Offline
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Post: #1131
RE: The NBA Thread
Cant wait for D-Rose to absolutely kill it. Been waiting a whole year to see him back in action. Judging by how hes been playing this pre-season, it looks like hes in for a killer year.






Its MVP time baby!!!!!!
10-26-2013 04:31 PM
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Belize King Offline
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Post: #1132
RE: The NBA Thread
Just saw the Wizards and Suns trade. Great trade for wiz. Isnt Okafer hurt? Maybe it was Nene. Either way it was a salary dump and tank trade for the suns.

I think that if the Wizards continue playing that D then they can get a 5th seed. Bulls, Miami, Pacers, Nets are top four in that order. Knicks and Wizards will fight it out to play the Nets. Pistons and maybe the Hawks? Sorry Cavs.

The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
10-26-2013 06:19 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #1133
RE: The NBA Thread
(10-26-2013 03:39 PM)kdolo Wrote:  The bigger questions for the Pistons:

1. Can Jennings be a real point guard as opposed to a shooting guard in a point guard's body ??

2. Will Jennings play D ??

3. Can Mo Cheeks get through to J. Smith ??? defense, not jacking up jumpers ????

Jennings is a flat out bad PG that was a signing in the first place. Between his atrocious D and ill advised stepbacks, be prepared for alot of "smh" moments from him. There's a reason why he had few suitors during free agency, and its essentially because he's a high volume, low percentage combo guard.

Same with J-Smoove. He will be enabled to take those shots since he's playing the 3. But as we all know thats not where his strengths lie. He's been shooting treys off the dribble in the pre-season so theres no reason to think that he will get the message.

Mo Cheeks may make BJennings a better PG, since he was one himself, but time will tell.
10-26-2013 06:31 PM
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Belize King Offline
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Post: #1134
RE: The NBA Thread
I remember one year Josh Smith took less then 10 3 pointers. Maybe the '08-'09 season. I miss those days.

The cycle of disrespect can start with just an appetizer.
10-26-2013 07:13 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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Post: #1135
RE: The NBA Thread
(10-26-2013 07:13 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  I remember one year Josh Smith took less then 10 3 pointers. Maybe the '08-'09 season. I miss those days.

Back in high school many actually thought he would be a beast SF. He definitely had the talent coming in the league to be so. Back in the day he used to run with the Atlanta Celtics, who had Dwight Howard, Randolph Morris, and Javaris Crittendon. Might be the best AAU team ever.



10-27-2013 02:51 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #1136
RE: The NBA Thread
I can't watch basketball. I'm still broken hearted from the Spurs losing in the Finals. They had it. Up 5 with less the 30 seconds!

I have only been watching "Hardwood Classics" and my favorite show "Open Court".

I won't watch the NBA until Christmas Day.

Going back to THE FINALS..

Didn't Lebron choke again??? Didn't he have 2 big turnovers in the last minute of game 6??? He did hit a 3 after that and of course Ray hit a big 3 but if Ray had not made that shot, Lebron would have been known as one of the biggest chokers of all time..

I respect Lebron but I still think he is not comfortable in crunch time as the #1 option. I predict that he will choke again in a big moment, costing his team a championship.

I want to go back and watch Game 6 again. I want to see those turnovers.. He got scared and threw the ball away twice if I remember correctly..?
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2013 06:00 PM by Giovonny.)
10-27-2013 05:59 PM
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Post: #1137
RE: The NBA Thread
(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I can't watch basketball. I'm still broken hearted from the Spurs losing in the Finals. They had it. Up 5 with less the 30 seconds!

I agree the Spurs should have won but that’s why we all watch sports. It’s unpredictable and sometimes the impossible happens.

(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I have only been watching "Hardwood Classics" and my favorite show "Open Court".

Open Court is one my favorites as well. It is a great show and they always have a good panel.

(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I won't watch the NBA until Christmas Day.

I have a few friends who do the same thing because they find the first couple of months boring and focus on NFL but I will watch games starting Tuesday. I can’t wait.

(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Going back to THE FINALS..
Didn't Lebron choke again??? Didn't he have 2 big turnovers in the last minute of game 6??? He did hit a 3 after that and of course Ray hit a big 3 but if Ray had not made that shot, Lebron would have been known as one of the biggest chokers of all time..

LeBron didn’t choke at all. Bad plays =/= choke. Choking is what happened to him against Dallas in 2011 when he was playing hot potato and didn’t take many shots in the 4th quarter. Against the Spurs in game 6, he single-handedly brought Miami back in the 4th quarter with Wade and Bosh on the bench and even gave them a lead for a while before Tony Parker hit two ridiculous shots in the last two minutes.

For me LeChoke died when he took 3 threes in the last seconds. If you re-watch the game, after he missed the 3 to tie, he was yelling and flailing his arms for the ball (but thank goodness that the greatest 3pt shooter got the ball). I will never forget that. That is the opposite of choking. That is what great players do. They want to take the last shot.

(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I respect Lebron but I still think he is not comfortable in crunch time as the #1 option. I predict that he will choke again in a big moment, costing his team a championship.

Completely disagree with this. I don’t know how you can say that after game 7 (the biggest game of his career). Game 7 was ridiculous and I think Pop overdid the let him shoot because they were going way under on the P&R. They gave him the most cushion in game 7 which to me was baffling especially after the first half when they knew his J was falling. He also hit the final basket for Miami with 27 seconds to go, got a steal on the defensive end, and hit two FTs to seal the championship (I am not sure you can do more in crunch time to seal the title for your team). Once again bad plays=/= choke. I think he will get better. He is now a complete offensive player with a jumper, a passable post-up game, he can obviously still drive, and attack the rim.

(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I want to go back and watch Game 6 again. I want to see those turnovers.. He got scared and threw the ball away twice if I remember correctly..?

Miami actually had 3 turnovers in the last 90 seconds. 2 of them were from LeBron and one of them was from Chalmers. He wasn’t scared. One of them was an entry-pass to Bosh.

I think you are overemphasizing the turnovers. You are right that had they lost those would have been unforgivable and the media/public would HAVE labeled him a choker had Miami lost but those were just bad plays. I would have agreed with you if he did not want to take the final 3s and then killed the Spurs in game 7 (including the game winner technically).
10-27-2013 07:32 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread


10-27-2013 07:36 PM
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Cr33pin Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I can't watch basketball. I'm still broken hearted from the Spurs losing in the Finals. They had it. Up 5 with less the 30 seconds!

I have only been watching "Hardwood Classics" and my favorite show "Open Court".

I won't watch the NBA until Christmas Day.

Going back to THE FINALS..

Didn't Lebron choke again??? Didn't he have 2 big turnovers in the last minute of game 6??? He did hit a 3 after that and of course Ray hit a big 3 but if Ray had not made that shot, Lebron would have been known as one of the biggest chokers of all time..

I respect Lebron but I still think he is not comfortable in crunch time as the #1 option. I predict that he will choke again in a big moment, costing his team a championship.

I want to go back and watch Game 6 again. I want to see those turnovers.. He got scared and threw the ball away twice if I remember correctly..?
Thought you could use a drink G Smile
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10-27-2013 07:59 PM
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kdolo Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-27-2013 05:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I can't watch basketball. I'm still broken hearted from the Spurs losing in the Finals. They had it. Up 5 with less the 30 seconds!

I have only been watching "Hardwood Classics" and my favorite show "Open Court".

I won't watch the NBA until Christmas Day.

Going back to THE FINALS..

You should be upset. Really, the series should never have gone 7 games.

If Lebron had a Kobe or Jordan type competitiveness/ego the series would have been over in 5.

He's unstoppable when her turns it on - he just seems to be lacking the deep inner confidence to tell everyone to go and fuck themselves and close teams out.

So yes, he does appear to choke sometimes or not step up to the moment. My theory is that he suffers from not having had his dad around - a psychological block - he doubts his worthiness.
10-27-2013 08:48 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Lebron needs a sport psychologist.
10-27-2013 08:51 PM
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Mentavious Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
I've got nothing to fill my evenings during the week so basketball is perfect.

Can't wait

A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
10-27-2013 09:17 PM
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Professor Fox Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread




Didn't expect that, Simmons ranking the Bulls #1 in his NBA preview.
10-28-2013 10:23 AM
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MidWest Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Derrick Rose ranks #2 after Lebron in shirt sales world wide. I wonder why that is.






People are making a big deal out of this.
10-28-2013 11:00 AM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
Lol at you guys making fun of me!

I'm still bitter!

The Spurs are a big part of my life and I was really emotionally invested in that series. I'm very broken hearted! Fuckkkkkk!!! I don't even like to think about those last 30 seconds!

(10-27-2013 07:32 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  I don’t know how you can say that after game 7

You are probably right. He did play well in Game 7.

He dodged a bullet. If he would have missed that last 3 or if Ray would have missed that last 3, he would be remembered as one of the biggest chokers of all time.

(10-27-2013 08:48 PM)kdolo Wrote:  If Lebron had a Kobe or Jordan type competitiveness/ego the series would have been over in 5.

True. Shit, if he had the competitive composure of Mike or Kobe, he would already have 4 or 5 championships.

(10-27-2013 08:48 PM)kdolo Wrote:  he just seems to be lacking the deep inner confidence to tell everyone to go and fuck themselves and close teams out.

So yes, he does appear to choke sometimes or not step up to the moment. My theory is that he suffers from not having had his dad around - a psychological block - he doubts his worthiness.

I agree with this. I think Lebron lacks supreme confidence and like you said, I think its because he grew up without a father.

Maybe he has fixed this issue? Maybe not?

We'll see what happens. I still think he has some "choke" left in him.

I don't know? Maybe I am too emotionally involved in this? Maybe, I am just a hater?

I can't wait for June to find out!!!

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Also, I know 2 former NBA assistant coaches who read this forum!

They love it!
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2013 01:29 PM by Giovonny.)
10-28-2013 01:22 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Lol at you guys making fun of me!
I'm still bitter!

Seriously, any Spurs fan should be bitter. If I remember correctly, teams down 5 with 28 seconds to go lose the game 99% of the time. No, that’s not a typo. 99%!

(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  You are probably right. He did play well in Game 7.
He dodged a bullet. If he would have missed that last 3 or if Ray would have missed that last 3, he would be remembered as one of the biggest chokers of all time.

Yeah, he played exceptionally well in game 7. He is now the top game 7 scorer ahead of MJ in terms of PPG.
He did dodge a bullet but it is what it is. Role players have ALWAYS hit big shots to save their teams. Horry, Fisher, Kerr etc. made a career out of hitting big shots and saving their teams.


(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(10-27-2013 08:48 PM)kdolo Wrote:  If Lebron had a Kobe or Jordan type competitiveness/ego the series would have been over in 5.

True. Shit, if he had the competitive composure of Mike or Kobe, he would already have 4 or 5 championships.

Now this is just ridiculous, Gio. He would have won 4 or 5 championships? Playing with whom? You expect him to win a championship with Mo Williams, Jamison, or a 38 year old washed-up fat Shaq? Give him a good team like MJ or Kobe or Duncan and he can show he will produce. He has been in Miami for 3 seasons with a good team = 2 championships and 1 loss in the Finals.

(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(10-27-2013 08:48 PM)kdolo Wrote:  he just seems to be lacking the deep inner confidence to tell everyone to go and fuck themselves and close teams out.

So yes, he does appear to choke sometimes or not step up to the moment. My theory is that he suffers from not having had his dad around - a psychological block - he doubts his worthiness.

I agree with this. I think Lebron lacks supreme confidence and like you said, I think its because he grew up without a father.

Maybe he has fixed this issue? Maybe not?

We'll see what happens. I still think he has some "choke" left in him.

I don’t think any other all-time great has been judged as harshly as LeBron. By his standards he has had 3 bad series: Dallas 2011, Boston 2010, and if you really want to nitpick, Spurs 2007.

Other than that he has shown up every series and carried his team.

Would a guy lacking supreme confidence go for 45 in Boston game 6 facing elimination on the road and in a place where the Heat have not traditionally done well, drop 40/18/9 against Indiana in must-win game 4 (2012), close out teams on way to Finals in 2011. Against Chicago in 2011 he was clutch in every single game.

(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I don't know? Maybe I am too emotionally involved in this? Maybe, I am just a hater?

I can't wait for June to find out!!!

Haha…at least you are being honest. I do think you are being a hater.
I don’t think you will have to wait until June to find out though and what is left there to find out anyway? People may not realize but the Heat have played the MOST basketball in the last 3 seasons. Counting the playoffs, they have played 4 seasons in 3 years. They will be fatigued and tired. I expect them to lose in the semis or the ECF and then retool for next season. Only way they win is if Wade is healthy and Oden can play Hibbert/Noah.

(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Also, I know 2 former NBA assistant coaches who read this forum!

They love it!

Interesting. Do they also read the NBA thread? Do they have any opinions on our opinions? Do they think we are idiot fans or do they like the level of NBA discussion here?


(10-27-2013 08:48 PM)kdolo Wrote:  If Lebron had a Kobe or Jordan type competitiveness/ego the series would have been over in 5.

This is completely untrue. Basketball much like other sports and life doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can’t just replace one player and expect the results to be different. First of all, Pop would have played Kobe and Jordan differently. Pop said in 07 or 08 for him the best way to beat Kobe is double him and let him shoot contested shots.

Secondly, are we to just ignore that Wade was 50% of himself and Bosh pulled a major disappearing act. The rest of the team was banged up as well. Battier didn’t show up until games 6 & 7. Allen, Chalmers, and Miller were very inconsistent.

To me these scenarios where Kobe and Jordan would have just finished the series in 5 are quite laughable. This severely underrates the Spurs. I don’t know if Gio agrees with this and I will be surprised if he does because he is a Spurs fan. The Spurs not counting the Lakers comfortably defeated GSW and ran roughshod over the Grizzlies. I wanted to see a Spurs-Heat Final because I knew it would be a good series and it didn’t disappoint.

Also, if you look at the series, who were the best 5 players?
LeBron
TP/Duncan
Green until game 5
Wade/Leonard
Bosh

If you put Kobe or MJ on this team they don’t automatically beat the Spurs, much less in 5. Kobe has always won his rings with dominant big men in the triangle who take attention away from him. Who does that for him here? Bosh? Lol

MJ is a different beast and I would have loved to see Pop vs Jackson and see what happens.
10-28-2013 03:10 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-28-2013 01:22 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Lol at you guys making fun of me!

I'm still bitter!

The Spurs are a big part of my life and I was really emotionally invested in that series. I'm very broken hearted! Fuckkkkkk!!! I don't even like to think about those last 30 seconds!

I got nothing but love for you Giovonny, but I do like to bust your balls on this one. The reasons you hate that series so bad are the reasons it was so exciting for me as a Heat fan. Those two threes that broke your heart had me jumping out of my seat an cheering like a mad man with the other heat fans at the bar. It was a tough finals and it really could have went either way....
I do kind of get the feeling that that was the Spurs best chance of getting another ring for awhile. They are getting old and with trades and players coming back from injuries there's gonna be more competition this season for sure.

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10-28-2013 03:31 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Horry

One of my all time favorite players!

An assassin!

One of the clutchest players ever!

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Now this is just ridiculous, Gio. He would have won 4 or 5 championships?

Yes, he has lost in The Finals 2 or 3 times already..

If he had the will, drive, leadership, and competitiveness of Mike. I think he would have beaten the Mavs and maybe the Spurs also.

He could have 4 right now. But, he does not have that kind of killer instinct.

Mike didn't have great players around him for most of his championships. Mike made them good players. Mike forced them to be good. They didn't have a choice.

But, I know, its a team sport.

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  45 in Boston game 6 facing elimination on the road

That was one of the greatest performances I have ever seen. Fuck, that was special!

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Against Chicago in 2011 he was clutch in every single game.

Yes, this is when I realized how special he was. DRose was the MVP and Lebron locked him down.

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  I do think you are being a hater.

I know. Lol!

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  what is there left to find out anyway?

There is still the question of how many championships he will win? Will he fulfill his potential? He has the most talent of all time but can he become the greatest player of all time?

If he only wins 2. He will be one of the greatest underachievers in basketball history.

We know he is one of the greatest players of all time. But, is he one of the greatest WINNERS of all time. Knowing how to play and knowing how to WIN are different things.

Russell has 11
Horry has 6 or 7
Mike has 5
Magic has 4
Bird has 3 or 4
Kobe has 5

Lebron needs a few more to fulfill his potential.

If he remains at 2, he is not an all time winner, just an all time talent.

(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Do they also read the NBA thread? Do they have any opinions on our opinions? Do they think we are idiot fans or do they like the level of NBA discussion here?

They scan this thread but they don't take it very serious.

Honestly, they operate in a different reality. They see and think the game at a much more complex level.

I spend a week with one of them a few seasons ago and I was literally blown away by the stuff they talk about.

This guy had a video showing how to foul people without the referee calling it. Fouling with your legs, fouling low with one hand while reaching high with the other hand. Fouling a player after he has already been fouled to wear him down and intimidate him even more.

How to flop. Mind games. Analytics. The social hierarchy of the NBA and how it affects games.

One thing they say is that the NBA is soft. Most of the players are soft and most of the teams are soft. How many teams even play hard? Only about 5 or 10. It's a players league, you can't really coach them like its high school or college because they are in control most of the time.

I've heard crazy stories about partying and groupies.

These guys are at another fucking level.

I asked Jerry Sloan why his team fouls so much and he basically said to intimidate people.

They are always talking about confidence. That's what seperates the good from the great. Great players have self-belief that is off the fucking charts. We talked about guys who didn't have the talent to play in the league but they made it just on confidence and swagger.

When the arena fills and the lights come on, some guys break and some guys shine. Some guys suck in practice but when they are in front of 20,000, people they become a different animal. Some guys are good in practice but when they see those ESPN/TNT cameras, they shit their pants.

I thought I knew something about basketball until I hung around a few NBA coaches. Then, I realized that I know nothing.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2013 07:18 PM by Giovonny.)
10-28-2013 06:55 PM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-28-2013 06:55 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Now this is just ridiculous, Gio. He would have won 4 or 5 championships?

Yes, he has lost in The Finals 2 or 3 times already..
If he had the will, drive, leadership, and competitiveness of Mike. I think he would have beaten the Mavs and maybe the Spurs also.
He could have 4 right now. But, he does not have that kind of killer instinct.
Mike didn't have great players around him for most of his championships. Mike made them good players. Mike forced them to be good. They didn't have a choice.
But, I know, its a team sport.

Lol...Gio, please don't pull a Skip Bayless here. He is 2-2 in the Finals and the only loss that you should and can hold against him is Dallas 2011. Do you really expect a 22 year old LeBron not even in his prime to beat an end of prime Duncan (who mind you is a top 10 all-time player), prime Ginobili, prime Parker with Gooden, Gibson, and Pavlovic as his teammates? Say what?

That Cavs team had no business being in the Finals with that awful shitty roster. I don't know man, Mike at 22 was losing in the first round. None of his Cavs teams were actually good. He made them look better than they were. There is no way you can penalize him for losing to the Spurs in 07.

As I said before, his only bad series performances have been Dallas 2011 and Boston 2010. Other than that, he has shown up for every series.

Come on, now. Mike didn't have great players around him? Pippen is an all-time top 50 player. The year MJ wasn't on the team during his hiatus, Pippen was 2nd or 3rd in MVP voting and lost in game 7 of the ECF. Pippen was the defensive ace that LeBron is and is probably the only other player who could legitimately guard 1-4s like LeBron can. Those teams were loaded and stacked. Pippen, Grant, Rodman, not to mention a #1 pick in Kukoc, Kerr and other role players etc., top 3 coach of all time in PJ.

MJ was no doubt a good leader but you don't want 6 without a loaded team.


(10-28-2013 06:55 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(10-28-2013 03:10 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  what is left there to find out anyway?

There is still the question of how many championships he will win?

If he only wins 2. He will be one of the greatest underachievers of all time.
We know he is one of the greatest players of all time. But, is he one of the greatest WINNERS of all time. Knowing how to play and knowing how to WIN are different things.

Russell has 7 (11)
Horry has 6 or 7
Mike has 5
Magic has 4
Bird has 3 or 4 (3)
Kobe has 5

Lebron needs a few more to fulfill his potential.

If he remains at 2, he is not an all time winner, just an all time talent.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that LeBron winning 2 is it and his place as an all-time great is solidified. He does need to win a couple more to get solidified on that all-time list. I meant that I don't expect them to win this upcoming season because that team has played 4 seasons in 3 years.

PS. I like Horry too but no way he belongs on the list you just posted lol. He was a roleplayer who got lucky and got to play on championship teams but he is a roleplayer nonetheless, not an all -time great.

Regarding the assistant coaches, I figured. They don't talk hoops like we do. They actually dissect the game at a level which we will never understand. We can be as objective and rational as we want but we will never see the game like they do.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2013 07:27 PM by TheSlayer.)
10-28-2013 07:20 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(10-28-2013 07:20 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Do you really expect a 22 year old LeBron not even in his prime to beat an end of prime Duncan (who mind you is a top 10 all-time player), prime Ginobili, prime Parker with Gooden, Gibson, and Pavlovic as his teammates?

Fair enough.

The Spurs had a waaaaaaaaaay better team.

You're right.

(10-28-2013 07:20 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Come on, now. Mike didn't have great players around him?

Pippen was the only great player around him and I think Mike made him great.

He wasn't that great without Mike around.

Mike made him Top 50, in my opinion.

Rodman was great but that was only for 1 or 2 seasons.

Kukoc wasn't that great, in my opinion.

I would like to see a list of the starting line ups for all 6 of Mike's championships.

I don't think they were that loaded..?

Lebron had 2 all stars with him. Mike only had 1.

(10-28-2013 07:20 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Regarding the assistant coaches, I figured. They don't talk hoops like we do.

I went back and edited my post. I added some more details that you might enjoy.

Go back and re-read that part.

I am Skip Bayless Jr.

I actually hate skip bayless

lol
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2013 07:39 PM by Giovonny.)
10-28-2013 07:36 PM
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