Post: #476

Crashing.
Bitstamp 813
BTC-e 681
MyGox Down
Btcchina 968

All in dollars.

Post: #477

Fuck its dropping every minute wish I had btc on an exchange

Post: #478

It seems to have stabilized.

Post: #479

(12-01-2013 03:35 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  It seems to have stabilized.

Yeah. Lucky to have the coins in the wallet lol.

Post: #480

I'm confused about Bitcoins.

What is the point of a currency that people just hoard instead of use for purchases?

That stops it from being a proper currency.

Dollars keep their value because what you can buy with them remains relatively stable.

But with Bitcoins - you have people buying the currency. Just in order to sit on them. That seems bizarre for the long term.

For those who see Bitcoins as the currency of the future - doesn't that mean you want it to fall in value? Otherwise it will never be used enough in ordinary transactions to act as an alternative currency.

Post: #481

(12-01-2013 03:40 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I'm confused about Bitcoins.

What is the point of a currency that people just hoard instead of use for purchases?

That stops it from being a proper currency.

Dollars keep their value because what you can buy with them remains relatively stable.

But with Bitcoins - you have people buying the currency. Just in order to sit on them. That seems bizarre for the long term.

For those who see Bitcoins as the currency of the future - doesn't that mean you want it to fall in value? Otherwise it will never be used enough in ordinary transactions to act as an alternative currency.

I don't think bitcoin will be used as a currency so much as a store of wealth, to make large purchases, or to make large money transfers.

It is too unstable right now to be used as an everyday currency, that is for sure.

P.S. Dollars only seem stable because they are a reserve currency and everybody does transactions in them. However, on Forex their value is changing all the time, although their value changes a lot less than bitcoin's does.

Post: #482

At least clark moody is working here

But its been a total train wreck tonight. But its kind of interesting, I´m having more fun now than when we stabilize on 1200..

Cardguy; Its still early, and its very unstable. I think in a year or two from now this kind of behavior will stop if more skilled investors enters the market, now it just seem like a bunch on teenagers on hormones with balls the size of peanuts just dumping their entire fortune at a red candle.

Post: #483

"What is the point of a currency that people just hoard instead of use for purchases?"

They don't. That's what journos say & they're wrong. Thanks to blockchain.info you can check for yourself, the amount of users & transactions increases exponentially.

Also, while bitcoin is still inflationary, it is de facto deflationary. This means people spend bitcoin only on 1) vital necessities (expensive goods that you need) & 2) something you economically value higher than bitcoin, things like good-performing startups, real estate, art, high-performing other cryptos, virtual commodities like domain names, etc. This is actually great when you think about it. Inflationary currencies don't give as much incentives to consumers to use their money wisely. That's partly where all the mindless consumerism comes fromy

So, it makes total sense: divide your income into cash for the short-term stuff & use bitcoin for long-term asset acquisitions.

Post: #484

(12-01-2013 03:18 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 10:12 AM)babelfish669 Wrote:  Buy it if it crashes hard again.

That didn't take long. Who bought the top?

I bought nearly at the top of this latest burst... at nearly $1,200 to get my first couple of Bitcoins.

But that does NOT change my idea or plan, yet. I outlined my plan in post #472 as follows:

(11-30-2013 02:47 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I barely have my toe in the door (which is a little over $2000), and I have a little more than 50% in Bitcoin and the other 45% or so spread evenly through 7 other crypto currencies). I am considering continuing $1,000 a week for the next 8 weeks - and possibly longer and hopefully some kind of similar distribution of the investment – but who knows.. At this point, I am just attempting to establish a diversified cryptocurrency portfolio and to learn more about cryptocurrencies along the way. Even at my projected rate, I should only have about $10,000 into crypto currencies by the end of January. I do have more dollars that I could invest, but I am planning to start out in a paced manner. Some people prefer to go all in, but currently, I do NOT have that much confidence in this whole situation, and I would be comfortable (though still a bit upset) with losing all of my investment, if it were to come to that.

Accordingly, I kind of hope that Bitcoins go down to about $100 or less, and then I can begin to acquire a bunch of them for the same $1000 per week. I think that ultimately they have a lot of long-term potential to stabilize at several thousand per Bitcoin, but it may take several years for that.. and who knows whether Bitcoin will be the deal or some other govt backed currency will be... whichever one of these crypto currencies gets backed by major government(s) will be the ONE(s) to be "in" (so far ONLY China seems to have been backing Bitcoin, which seems to imply that the USA may NEVER come to backing Bitcoin, but WHO knows?).

And, ultimately, it seems that what makes Bitcoins valuable is its open source aspect - so governments, with their current strategies, are going to be reluctant to back open source as sole currencies.

(12-01-2013 03:38 PM)friheten Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 03:35 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  It seems to have stabilized.

Yeah. Lucky to have the coins in the wallet lol.

@ Texas Profit:

NO WAY can a guy say that this Bitcoin thing has stabilized due to a one day correction.

@Friheten:
If a guy is in the mood to sell, he has to have his ducks in a row to be able to exercise that strategy at an opportune time.... and have his coins in some place to be able to liquidate (Localcoins or one of the other exchanges).

Certainly it becomes a sellers' market while the currency is moving up, NOT when the currency is moving down. As soon as the currency gets into a freefall posture, the market converts into a buyers' market. Surely, whether the particular currency is going UP or DOWN, we cannot tell if that momentum is going to continue in that UP or DOWN direction, until looking back.... accordingly, we cannot always be sure that it is a buyers' or a sellers' market. I could tell over the end of last week, while I was trying to solidify my purchase(s) and the terms of such, I was working in a sellers' market.

In other words, a guy who has Bitcoins has to be prepared with his selling strategy (be in an exchange or whatever), while the currency is moving up... to maybe take a few gains at that time, one or two coins (or whatever amount is comfortable).. but then he would be betting (or hedging) that that particular currency is NOT going to continue to go up.

I repeat that personally, I am long-term bullish on Bitcoins - and possibly on LiteCoins and/or some others that are currently NOT clear... and that is why I have decided to employ a dollar cost averaging strategy to buy in about $1,000 per week increments, and i would be very satisfied if the Bitcoin price drops quite a bit in the next several weeks so i can get in at less than $100 per coin and build up my base considering that the long-term is going to provide for a stable and higher rate. I would rather that it drops slowly over the next several weeks rather than by 90% in a week or whatever b/c that makes my dollar cost averaging to be too spread out and maybe i should be buying more frequently, b/c of the drastic extent of the volatility. Surely, I may be wrong in my whole strategy, yet b/c I am sufficiently diversified in other investments, I am willing to lose all my investment into Bitcoins for the gamble on the potential long-term upside and other crypto currencies based on that gamble that these various coins are long-term bullish.

For the shorter term investors, which I think Warren Buffet claims to be, the rule is to buy while the investment is going down and to sell while the investment is going up... but personally, since I continue to be unsure, I am buying with a preset approximate dollar amount and a preset frequency... and I believe that my next purchase will be around Thursday, December 5 - ish.. at whatever place the market will be at that time.

Post: #485

Bitcoin payment processors give you the option of accepting bitcoins but obtaining fiat right away.

Post: #486

(12-01-2013 05:49 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Bitcoin payment processors give you the option of accepting bitcoins but obtaining fiat right away.

What or who do you mean by "bitcoin payment processors"?

Post: #487

(12-01-2013 05:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 05:49 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Bitcoin payment processors give you the option of accepting bitcoins but obtaining fiat right away.

What or who do you mean by "bitcoin payment processors"?

Coinbase offers merchant services with automatic USD payouts.

Post: #488

(12-01-2013 06:07 PM)JackDavey Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 05:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 05:49 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Bitcoin payment processors give you the option of accepting bitcoins but obtaining fiat right away.

What or who do you mean by "bitcoin payment processors"?

Coinbase offers merchant services with automatic USD payouts.

Certainly, I do NOT understand the various pay out options and/or fees. B/c on Friday, 11/29, I bought .45 bitcoin on coinbase, and the system told me that it would take until next Thursday, December 5 (5 business days) to process. I tried to enable some kind of a more rapid transaction, but I was unable to. It said fees were waived for the day, and I could NOT figure out what the fees were on that day. My account is new that I created on Friday, as well.

Additionally, a 1% fee for immediate transfer does seem like a pretty high rate to cash out - accordingly, fees to buy and fees to sell. Surely these fees will add up.

Post: #489

Governments don't like competition.... In the last 100 years there have even been 1st world nations who considered it treason to use currencies other than their own.

Post: #490

Quote:Additionally, a 1% fee for immediate transfer does seem like a pretty high rate to cash out

To me, this seems like a good rate. Suppose I set up an online store for some product or service. Were I to use, say Stripe to process credit card payments, I'd pay a fee of 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction.

I'm sure there are other services, though, which may have better rates, both for credit cards and for Bitcoin. The above was just an example of a bitcoin payment processor in answer to your question.

A better idea would be to accept Bitcoin payments and have software which routes them, in whole or in part, to your wallet on an exchange and places an immediate sell order at the best market rate. The exchange fees are considerably lower, from what I have seen: 0.5% on bitstamp, 0.3% on kraken, and these decrease with the volume of trading that you do, if I understand correctly.

Honestly, this might all be irrelevant if you simply are looking to make periodic investments long term. But it's something to think about as far as the potential for Bitcoin to be useful as a currency with minimal risk.

Post: #491

(12-01-2013 06:42 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  Governments don't like competition.... In the last 100 years there have even been 1st world nations who considered it treason to use currencies other than their own.

Hehehehe... It may be dangerous to get into a political conversation..... deja vue for me.

Generally, I agree with you about the US Govt desire to monopolize and to control currency, and really, I claim to NOT be any kind of expert.

However, currently, Bitcoin has an interesting dynamic b/c the US Govt. seems to be engaging in a variety of crazy and wreckless tactics regarding money... especially, since about 2008.. with outrageous printing and seeming loss of control over fiscal restraint (this is NOT just Obama - but that's another story). Anyhow, currently, the US is playing a kind of passive aggressive regarding Bitcoin - and maybe they have some plan and/or ability to squash it.. .. but if they let it grow too much, they may lose that ability... possibly.. In this regard, it may be out of control or there may be some kind of plan to undermine it or to control it or to manipulate it... And, maybe the various US Govt entities are trying to figure out how to play it, exactly.

China, on the other hand, is putting a lot of resources into pumping up Bitcoin and gold and they are probably hedging their bets in various ways - yet China seems to be leveraging some alternatives to the USD - even while they (China) has been considerably open about their various lobbying towards alternative investment strategies.

I understand the inherent hostility... but do they have a plan to control Bitcoin.. and will it get out of control? I would think that if they continue to try to take Bitcoins out of circulation, that would be ONE way - but it may NOT work b/c currently, there are over 40 copy cats, and who knows how good those other copy cats are? Can let others chime in about that b/c I am so NEW to this that I am barely able to figure out how to make various transactions - without getting screwed by the various transaction fees. And, the market seems so fragmented regarding any attempts to trade any of the alternative crypto currencies.

Post: #492

(12-01-2013 06:55 PM)JackDavey Wrote:  

Quote:Additionally, a 1% fee for immediate transfer does seem like a pretty high rate to cash out

To me, this seems like a good rate. Suppose I set up an online store for some product or service. Were I to use, say Stripe to process credit card payments, I'd pay a fee of 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction.

I'm sure there are other services, though, which may have better rates, both for credit cards and for Bitcoin. The above was just an example of a bitcoin payment processor in answer to your question.

A better idea would be to accept Bitcoin payments and have software which routes them, in whole or in part, to your wallet on an exchange and places an immediate sell order at the best market rate. The exchange fees are considerably lower, from what I have seen: 0.5% on bitstamp, 0.3% on kraken, and these decrease with the volume of trading that you do, if I understand correctly.

Honestly, this might all be irrelevant if you simply are looking to make periodic investments long term. But it's something to think about as far as the potential for Bitcoin to be useful as a currency with minimal risk.

JackD: I appreciate your various explanations of different processing options.

I certainly would NOT poo poo a 1% charge, if that is clearly going to get me out of something quickly and I am set up for such exiting, yet a problem is that I am still learning and building my portfolio, so I am in NO position to be attempting to make quick profit turn overs. I agree that 1% is NOT necessarily bad, if a guy is in a position to cash out - especially, if he had been in for a while and ready to quickly take profits

For example, a guy who may have bought 100 BTC at less than $100 may want to cash out when the market reached $1200. Coinbase is only going to allow 10 BTC per day, so it would take 10 days to cash out through Coinbase.

Additionally, NO matter what the service that a guy uses, he needs to be aware of various exit strategies that are available to him and the various fees and how quickly the money is going to show up and whether he thinks that he can get away with claiming it on his taxes. Again, as you read my intentions correctly, I am planning at least a few months to ride out the volatility - NOT day trading and/or even short-term trading - unless the market atmosphere dramatically changes in some direction that I had NOT anticipated... At this point, we are just getting back and forth hype.. which I already knew that coming in, and if the market is up and down for hype, then I am just staying in. On the other hand, if there is some big news or legislation.. that may cause me to rethink, and possibly to cut my losses..

Post: #493

(12-01-2013 07:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-01-2013 06:42 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  Governments don't like competition.... In the last 100 years there have even been 1st world nations who considered it treason to use currencies other than their own.

Hehehehe... It may be dangerous to get into a political conversation..... deja vue for me.

Generally, I agree with you about the US Govt desire to monopolize and to control currency, and really, I claim to NOT be any kind of expert.

However, currently, Bitcoin has an interesting dynamic b/c the US Govt. seems to be engaging in a variety of crazy and wreckless tactics regarding money... especially, since about 2008.. with outrageous printing and seeming loss of control over fiscal restraint (this is NOT just Obama - but that's another story). Anyhow, currently, the US is playing a kind of passive aggressive regarding Bitcoin - and maybe they have some plan and/or ability to squash it.. .. but if they let it grow too much, they may lose that ability... possibly.. In this regard, it may be out of control or there may be some kind of plan to undermine it or to control it or to manipulate it... And, maybe the various US Govt entities are trying to figure out how to play it, exactly.

China, on the other hand, is putting a lot of resources into pumping up Bitcoin and gold and they are probably hedging their bets in various ways - yet China seems to be leveraging some alternatives to the USD - even while they (China) has been considerably open about their various lobbying towards alternative investment strategies.

I understand the inherent hostility... but do they have a plan to control Bitcoin.. and will it get out of control? I would think that if they continue to try to take Bitcoins out of circulation, that would be ONE way - but it may NOT work b/c currently, there are over 40 copy cats, and who knows how good those other copy cats are? Can let others chime in about that b/c I am so NEW to this that I am barely able to figure out how to make various transactions - without getting screwed by the various transaction fees. And, the market seems so fragmented regarding any attempts to trade any of the alternative crypto currencies.

Good post. Currently I just don't feel comfortable because a news release by a couple governments could send this thing to 100$ or less, or a news release by Walmart could double it. Not to mention at this point it seems like too many people are involved in it purely for speculation rather than looking for a safe haven.

It will be interesting to see how this goes over the next few months. It would be good for the price to stabilize for a while I think.

Post: #494

A College Kid Made More Than $24,000 Just by Waving This Sign on ESPN

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/college-ki...45085.html

Quote:A college student quickly made over $24,000 just by waving this sign on TV.

Here's the deal: On ESPN's "College GameDay" (an ESPN college football show that's filmed at a different college campus each week) some student held the above sign that has both the Bitcoin logo and a QR code.

A QR code is a visual representation of any kind of information (frequently a URL for a website). In this case, the code represented a Bitcoin wallet.

On Reddit, Bitcoin fans managed to enhance the QR code from the screen in order to identify his wallet, so that people could donate money to him.

There is more to the article.

Post: #495

Post: #496

Massive Bitcoin heist nets hackers $60 million pounds +

Fantastic scam! You have to admire the pure balls of it - it looks like someone has scammed all the users of the ironically named 'Sheep Marketplace' - all their accounts were drained. Hilarious really

"One of the largest heists in bitcoin history is happening right now. 96,000 bitcoins - that’s roughly £60m as of the time of writing - was taken from the accounts of customers, vendors and administrators of the Sheep Marketplace over the weekend.

Sheep was one of the main sites that came to replace the Silk Road when it closed in October, but it too has now closed as a result of this theft. It’s a little hard to work out exactly what’s happened, but Sheep customers have been piecing it together on reddit’s r/sheepmarketplace.

Here's what happened: someone (or some group) managed to fake the balances in peoples’ accounts on the site, showing that they had their bitcoins in their wallets when they’d actually been transferred out. Over the course of a week the whole site was drained, until the weekend when the site's administrators realised what was happening and shut everything down."

http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof...-real-time

Post: #497

(12-03-2013 02:08 AM)zarzuelazen Wrote:  Massive Bitcoin heist nets hackers $60 million pounds +

Fantastic scam! You have to admire the pure balls of it - it looks like someone has scammed all the users of the ironically named 'Sheep Marketplace' - all their accounts were drained. Hilarious really

"One of the largest heists in bitcoin history is happening right now. 96,000 bitcoins - that’s roughly £60m as of the time of writing - was taken from the accounts of customers, vendors and administrators of the Sheep Marketplace over the weekend.

Sheep was one of the main sites that came to replace the Silk Road when it closed in October, but it too has now closed as a result of this theft. It’s a little hard to work out exactly what’s happened, but Sheep customers have been piecing it together on reddit’s r/sheepmarketplace.

Here's what happened: someone (or some group) managed to fake the balances in peoples’ accounts on the site, showing that they had their bitcoins in their wallets when they’d actually been transferred out. Over the course of a week the whole site was drained, until the weekend when the site's administrators realised what was happening and shut everything down."

http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof...-real-time

If this is true, then it is amazing.

P.S. The guy stole so many coins that he can't even successfully "wash" them. LOL! That is like stealing so much cash that you can't even carry the bags of cash away.

Post: #498

Texas Prophet:

Thanks again for keeping the information flowing regarding the Schiff developments and pursuit.

As one of the commentators of the interview stated, Schiff may be getting a little more intelligent in his Bitcoin discussions, but in my humble opinion, he is NOT getting too much smarter - he has NOT become enlightened, YET.

Actually, I did NOT know who Schiff was until he was pointed out to me on RVF - regarding the govt shut down discussion. Prior to hearing about him, I was UNAWARE of his various talking points, including his libertarianism leanings.

Anyhow, I am starting to notice that Schiff seems to have this irresistible tendency to talk over his guests, or with whom ever he is engaging in a discussion, especially when these other people are making good, intelligent and/or informed points.

Also, guys may have noticed in the video that Schiff made a two part question that was like two outrageously long monologues. Surely they were good points that Schiff was making; however, by the time the guest was able to answer or attempt to answer, it was difficult to follow the points of the previous questions in order to allow for meaningful responses to each of Schiff's points. That caused me to conclude that Schiff really is NOT interested in hearing meaningful counter points in order to raise the level of understanding, but instead wants to keep beating over points and muddying the water with his muddy dogmatic thinking.

In essence, Schiff is a fairly stubborn ASS on various points related to Bitcoins and other alternative crypto currencies - and he is NOT really listening.

Maybe in the end Schiff is correct in his prediction that Bitcoin is going to fail - but if he is correct, it will merely be based on some lucky guess b/c he is sounding even more foolish when he sticks to various dogmatic talking points without really allowing meaningful engagements in at least a couple of areas - which seems to tie into 1) his inability or unwillingness to get off his high horse ideas that any new currency must be backed by something and/or tangible and 2) he is failing to grapple with some of the various Bitcoin benefits.

(12-03-2013 02:15 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  If this is true, then it is amazing.

TTP: Key point.. if this is true. If this were true, then the markets surely have NOT heard about it. If this were true, then there should be market confidence problems causing a downward adjustment of Bitcoins.

(12-03-2013 02:15 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  P.S. The guy stole so many coins that he can't even successfully "wash" them. LOL! That is like stealing so much cash that you can't even carry the bags of cash away.

This point of the inability to escape and/or to anonymize a guy's heist contributes to the unbelievability of the story.

Let's see how it plays out?

We've been hearing quite a few amazing stories about large quantities of Bitcoins being misplaced or mishandled.. and maybe even some of these stories are going to be true. And the existence or NON-EXISTENCE of these missing and/or misshandled coins, if true would affect the valuation of Bitcoins on various exchanges.

Post: #499

Peter Schiff have some strange opinions about the limited supply of bitcoin. He says the fact that a bitcoin is dividable contradicts with the thought that bitcoin has a limited supply. That seems really strange to me. Wouldn´t that be the same as saying gold don't have a limited supply either, cause its possible to divide one gold coin into smaller units?

Post: #500

I haven't read this entire thread but I bought 1.7btc at $190 in October. It turned out to be a a pretty shrewd investment as the price skyrocketed the following week. During the time I lost almost half during one of the dips (don't try and catch falling knife!) but managed to recoup that by buying 22 litecoins at $8 and sold them at $40, 4 days later.

My investment is up 500% in a matter of months, which I think is pretty insane compared to what my so called savings account gets in a year. I decided to take some profits, effectively doubling my money. So now what ever happens to the rest over times doesn't really matter to me.

I'm travelling soon and I'm looking forward to the progression of http://www.coinmap.org - there's an increasing number of asian businesses advertising there. I also email Hostelworld periodically asking them to take Bitcoin, that would be great.