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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1251
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-20-2014 09:07 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I'm bleeding -100 per but not worried

El Mech:

Actually, I meant to address this in my earlier post. I take it that you were referring to buying BTC at $640-ish, and at the time of your writing, the sell price was about $540-ish?

I remain of the opinion that any BTC price under $1,000 is a good value, but who the hell is going to pay $1,000 for BTC when the market price is $500-ish or under $100 per BTC for that matter, if we were to include fictional Gox BTC prices?

Also, I am NOT going to spend my fiat like a crazy person while the BTC prices are under $1,000 b/c like anyone else I prefer to buy more BTC at a cheaper price, if possible..

O.k.... so the current BTC price is under your BTC investment price and your dollars are tied up for a while... waiting for the price to return... ... Personally, I would rather be in BTC and waiting it out, than to be in dollars and waiting it out.... In that regard, relative to the dollar, I believe that BTC is more likely to appreciate in value in the next several months and even next couple of years.... The very short-term of the next few days and weeks and even month or so, on the other hand, we do NOT really know whether it will take a few hours to return to the mid 600s $$$$$ or several months to return to such prices...

Surely, it is possible that BTC will NEVER return to such mid 600s $$$$$ prices, but most of us following BTC would highly doubt those odds, and we would NOT bet on that horse.. I think the odds are pretty good for BTC above $1,000 this calendar year.... and even within the next few months, absent some further major shenanigans. Actually, I expect there to be a variety of shenanigans with BTC and continued volatility in the next couple of years... yet continued likelihood of BTC market cap growth, of doubling or tripling within this calendar year.... (currently, as I type BTC's marketcap is a bit over $6.8 billion with a BTC price of $549)... We were at nearly a $16 billion market cap in December 2013, and me thinkith that getting to $20 billion within this calendar year.... seems to be well within reason and within reach
02-21-2014 12:32 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1252
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Mt.Gox is surely harming bitcoin a lot in the short term but in the long term view, all that hazzle could allow us to buy cheap bitcoins now before the price explodes up. It can get worse, maybe drop to mid 400$ but after Mt.Gox fixes their issues, I could see price going up. Everyone is fearful now and afraid but you could either buy now or regret months later how you missed the opportunity. Or there could be no come back for bitcoins(I doubt).

“Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful” Warren Buffet


There has been some news that paypal would accept digital currencies -- if they accept bitcoin, that would be big. Bitcoin can surely harm paypal in a long run and it is better for paypal to go with it than against it.
02-21-2014 03:26 AM
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Flavius Aetius Offline
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Post: #1253
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
It looks like Bitcoin is finally falling back down to its intrinsic value =$0. It was an amazing bubble which has obviously burst. The early adopters made a fantastic sum while the late-stage general public lost big. When you hear ads on the radio about "how you too can make money mining bitcoins" you know the top is in like 2000 with the dot-coms. If you want an a real alternative currency--try gold.

Paul Singer of Elliot Associates (hedge fund)--who manages $23 billion (so he knows what he is talking about) said this about bitcoin:

Quote:After 37 years in the investment-management business, we are not easily shocked. However, two things about bitcoin have shocked us recently. One is that bitcoin and some of its fellow alternative currencies are finding such favor among investors while gold (the only real alternative currency) is languishing. The second is that the most heated investment-related conversation we have had in many years was with a young person who, when told of our mild dubiousness toward bitcoin, basically lost it and started yelling in its defense. Bitcoin comes with passion and belief – at least at the moment.

There is no more reason to believe that bitcoin, a computer-generated, algorithm-driven currency of supposed limited supply, will stand the test of time than that governments will protect the value of government-created fiat money. One difference: Bitcoin is newer and we always look at babies with hope.

If you are looking for an alternative currency, look into gold. It has stood the test of thousands of years as a medium of exchange and a store of value. Better yet, it is not just a computer entry out in the ether somewhere, and it was last seen available at a good price.

Bitcoin and its relatives speak to understandable impulses (against big government, in favor of freedom and modernity), but we do not see this particular experiment lasting. At least you have to work really hard to dig gold out of the ground.

He has often been called the "Last of the Romans"

"We have prostitutes for our pleasure, concubines for our health, and wives to bear us lawful offspring."--Demosthenes (384–322 BC), Red Pill Greek Statesman
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2014 03:48 AM by Flavius Aetius.)
02-21-2014 03:37 AM
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tiggaling Offline
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Post: #1254
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Quote:Bitcoin and its relatives speak to understandable impulses (against big government, in favor of freedom and modernity), but we do not see this particular experiment lasting. At least you have to work really hard to dig gold out of the ground.

Dude is obviously a bit out of the loop. Bitcoin enthusiasts are often highly intelligent, astute and extremely enthusiastic about bitcoin. It isn't an experiment for them, it is stepping off fiat currency and a new way of trading and there are a lot of these people out there.

I've been watching these BTC issues, and for such a young currency, I'd say it is all just teething problems.
02-21-2014 03:59 AM
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Maciano Offline
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Post: #1255
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
SMS shortcodes & domain names also get their value through computer-generated limited supply. That settles the question if virtual assets can or can't have real value: they can.

It's not that gold proves real money must have intrinsic value, it's that bitcoin proves there's no such thing as intrinsic value.

Gold is just shiny metal.
02-21-2014 04:41 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1256
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-21-2014 03:37 AM)Flavius Aetius Wrote:  It looks like Bitcoin is finally falling back down to its intrinsic value =$0. It was an amazing bubble which has obviously burst. The early adopters made a fantastic sum while the late-stage general public lost big. When you hear ads on the radio about "how you too can make money mining bitcoins" you know the top is in like 2000 with the dot-coms. If you want an a real alternative currency--try gold.

Paul Singer of Elliot Associates (hedge fund)--who manages $23 billion (so he knows what he is talking about) said this about bitcoin:

Quote:After 37 years in the investment-management business, we are not easily shocked. However, two things about bitcoin have shocked us recently. One is that bitcoin and some of its fellow alternative currencies are finding such favor among investors while gold (the only real alternative currency) is languishing. The second is that the most heated investment-related conversation we have had in many years was with a young person who, when told of our mild dubiousness toward bitcoin, basically lost it and started yelling in its defense. Bitcoin comes with passion and belief – at least at the moment.

There is no more reason to believe that bitcoin, a computer-generated, algorithm-driven currency of supposed limited supply, will stand the test of time than that governments will protect the value of government-created fiat money. One difference: Bitcoin is newer and we always look at babies with hope.

If you are looking for an alternative currency, look into gold. It has stood the test of thousands of years as a medium of exchange and a store of value. Better yet, it is not just a computer entry out in the ether somewhere, and it was last seen available at a good price.

Bitcoin and its relatives speak to understandable impulses (against big government, in favor of freedom and modernity), but we do not see this particular experiment lasting. At least you have to work really hard to dig gold out of the ground.

Paul Singer is only talking about bitcoin as a currency when in reality it is much more. These guys who made a fortune with the old system sound like the old farts who said internet is going to change nothing. The blockchain and the payment system already makes cryptocurrencies extremely valuable. You then cannot compare bitcoin to gold, because gold lacks most of the valuable qualities bitcoin has. Try using gold as a payment system where you can transfer money to other side of the world in matter of minutes with hardly any transactions costs. Try making microtransactions with gold. Try storing your gold safely without any third parties. Try creating smartcontracts with gold. And so on.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2014 05:41 AM by strengthstudent.)
02-21-2014 05:39 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1257
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-21-2014 05:39 AM)strengthstudent Wrote:  Paul Singer is only talking about bitcoin as a currency when in reality it is much more. These guys who made a fortune with the old system sound like the old farts who said internet is going to change nothing. The blockchain and the payment system already makes cryptocurrencies extremely valuable. You then cannot compare bitcoin to gold, because gold lacks most of the valuable qualities bitcoin has. Try using gold as a payment system where you can transfer money to other side of the world in matter of minutes with hardly any transactions costs. Try making microtransactions with gold. Try storing your gold safely without any third parties. Try creating smartcontracts with gold. And so on.

Well said StrengthStudent.

Sure there are a bunch of these guys with vested interests poo poo-ing bitcoin, and we have heard quite a few of those arguments making comparisons and missing the mark. It does NOT really add too much to the conversation, but I suppose it does scare a few people off of bitcoin.


I keep thinking that this current downward manipulation of bitcoin is allowing some institutional investors into bitcoin at cheaper prices, yet if we, as individuals, can keep our eyes on the prize to see the various innovations of bitcoin, we will be able to help to contribute to the innovation by being invested into it... and likely see some profits... and potentially decently sized profits.


EDIT: By the way, I just came across this article, which provides another theory concerning what's going on with Gox - in essence that, CEO Mark Karpeles is being forced into such a situation by the US Govt. From the comments, some think that this theory of Gox's failure is very far fetched... but there may be some potential to some variation of this.... especially given the near incoherence and lack of logic of Gox's recent press release.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments...theory_42/
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2014 12:03 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-21-2014 11:04 AM
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HD668B Offline
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Post: #1258
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
So who here is actually positive overall with bitcoin? (Excluding ofcourse those who had their wallets with Mt.Gox)
02-24-2014 03:50 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1259
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-24-2014 03:50 AM)LÉtranger Wrote:  So who here is actually positive overall with bitcoin? (Excluding ofcourse those who had their wallets with Mt.Gox)

L'Etranger:

I am NOT sure the purpose of your question.. except to suggest a sort of "I told you so," while the BTC market momentum is downward. You've been in on this thread before doing such criticisms of BTC, betting to short BTC and various other naysayer comments regarding BTC... o.k. we have heard some of that..... Yet, you are back to this thread in order to "rub it in a little more" while the BTC momentum is downward... downward for nearly the whole month of February, by the way...

Certainly, there are some guys that began to invest in BTC when it was in double digits and also in the $100 to $200 range..., so those guys may be positive, still... Anyhow, your question only really matters if a guy began investing above $650 or so and were cashing out right at the moment (which would likely NOT be a sound investment strategy.. .... sort of a panic sell... ) or your question for us may be relevant if BTC were NOT to recover from the current downward trend, which seems pretty highly unlikely. There has been quite a bit of expansion of various BTC network components in the last couple of months... even with some downward trends in BTC price during that period.

For me in particular, as you may have heard, I started investing at $1,200... and I sense that I am NOT doing too badly with my investment strategy..... but my strategy remains long... NOT short and it is involved, and based on watching various specifics about what is going on with BTC.. Even though my BTC portfolio would NOT have been positive, if I would have cashed out at any time today, I still have confidence that my strategy remains good.... for 2014 ...and/or alternatively 2015

So, what is the point that you want to make with your question.. to tell BTC invested guys what? to get out of BTC? I told you so? or alternatively, something more constructive towards what is going on in BTC? Do you have any prediction for BTC, besides, tulip mania? Do you have any opinion regarding BTC that takes into account various kinds of investment and expansions of the BTC network that has been taking place in the last year or so ... and especially in the last several months on a world-wide basis?


Hopefully, you came to this BTC thread to add something more than merely rubbing in if guys are NOT positive in BTC, at the moment?


EDIT..... Also... Actually, I am NOT sure if any guys in this forum have their coins with Mt. Gox... I wonder.... b/c we haven't been hearing from any of them in this thread.... I would be a bit worried if I were to have some coins in Mt. Gox.... it is NOT really clear about the odds of getting them out... a bit bleak, at the moment, it seems?
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2014 04:39 AM by JayJuanGee.)
02-24-2014 04:35 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1260
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
The bitcoin haters would rather see bitcoin fail than succeed because if it did succeed, they would have to face the fact that they missed an incredible opportunity where they can only blame themselves. You see, bitcoin COULD be the next dotcom boom. Back then I was a kid and unable to take the advantage of dotcom bubble -- I won't let it happen again.

It has been a rocky month for sure... I wish the price would rise and stabilize at high enough level that I would be more comfortable at knowing that at least I am not losing.

Bitcoin has triggered something inside me. I tend to give way less fuck these days... less afraid to risk or fail, as a result I have started to get more serious with my entrepreneurship projects. Just an interesting side-effect.

Interesting fact: if you own more than 2.5 bitcoins, you are in the top 10 % bitcoin owners.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2014 07:45 AM by strengthstudent.)
02-24-2014 07:44 AM
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Post: #1261
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Do you guys really feel that Bitcoin still has upward potential? It seems the odds are stacked against it:

a) the governments have done everything they can and will continue to do everything they can to suppress it, which has resulted in the imprisonment of BitInstant founder/CEO and the shut-down of Gox
b) China has enacted strict controls against it
c) the government barriers will eliminate the potential of retailers to accept it

and just don't see how BTC can go up from here?
02-24-2014 10:38 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1262
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-24-2014 10:38 AM)monster Wrote:  Do you guys really feel that Bitcoin still has upward potential? It seems the odds are stacked against it:

a) the governments have done everything they can and will continue to do everything they can to suppress it, which has resulted in the imprisonment of BitInstant founder/CEO and the shut-down of Gox
b) China has enacted strict controls against it
c) the government barriers will eliminate the potential of retailers to accept it

and just don't see how BTC can go up from here?

Your questions here make you seem REALLY ill informed, Monster.

What are your sources for the factors that you list as threats to the future of BTC? Mainstream media? Your own logic, without sources?

Have you read this thread or some of the bitcoin related resources that are linked herein? How long have you been following BTC, maybe a few days?
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2014 01:01 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-24-2014 01:00 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1263
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
We are surely experiencing a bloody slaughter of a day in bitcoin... down into the $480s on coinbase and bitstamp.... though BTC e has been holding in the $520s.... so far... but bad news (and/or rumors) are continuing go come out about Gox... including they lost 750,000 bitcoins (somehow), and then within the last hour Gox has halted trading and also the blockchain may have been down... as well..... the blood does NOT seem to be stopping, for the moment..

Oh.. that is the blood in the streets that Warren Buffet had mentioned as an investment time... but.. how long will it last, though....? and will it get bloodier?
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2014 09:49 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-24-2014 09:48 PM
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Emancipator Offline
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Post: #1264
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Holy fuck, mtgox just went offline and bankrupt. Ka-boom

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02-25-2014 01:19 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1265
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Damn, I am somewhat glad that mt.gox is gone because they brought way too much uncertainty to bitcoin market. But... that they lost most of the customers' bitcoins...damn.

I am buying some now.

It is one blood massacre of February.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 02:26 AM by strengthstudent.)
02-25-2014 02:02 AM
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Post: #1266
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
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02-25-2014 02:55 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1267
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
It seems that the price of bitcoin is going up pretty well, too hard to say for sure though, it might experience small crashes thorough the day(s) -- or not! I believe my predictions of Mt.Gox failure are real: it hurts like hell in short term(media is going to try to destroy bitcoin with these news) but it will allow the opportunists to take advantage of cheap 350-450 $ bitcoins.
02-25-2014 03:10 AM
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Deepdiver Offline
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Post: #1268
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
http://news.yahoo.com/website-bitcoin-ex...24538.html

The latest re: Mt. Gox - now the fact is you have to ask is your exchange also shaky, dodgy or a fly by night operation - it is bad enough that BITCOINS CAN FLUCTUATE OVER A SEVERAL HUNDRED POINTS (USD) A DAY . But now you have to wonder if your exchange can evaporate along with your "money" bitcoins, other crypto currencies which fluctuate wildly in price this is just a fact. I am going to keep accumulating the new blue Benjamins at least I know I can negotiate cash discounts and they hold their value on a day to day to week to month basis.

I am a political independent with strong New Hampshire Live Free or Die libertarian sympathies and would love a global universally accepted crypto currency unencumbered by rapacious tax and spend governments that is a stable and reliable store of value over time - you want to become a CCB crypto currency billionaire invent that because the current crop of crypto currencies is anything but stable and reliable - an inconvenient truth perhaps but true none the less.
02-25-2014 08:49 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1269
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
It is mind-boggling for me why people had so much of their bitcoins inside Mt.Gox. Mt.Gox is not a bank and doesn't have any insurance for your money -- Mt.Gox is an exchange company where you are supposed to send USD and take Bitcoins back, not leave it there. So while I hate Mt.Gox for their incompetence, people are to blame as well..

Bitcoin is reliable and secure. As reliable and secure as you manage to be. Do not let anonymous drug sellers hold your coins... or shady idiots in Japan.

The volatility is bad, very bad. Bitcoin remained somewhat stable thorough January but it went crashing down in February due to these issues. Mt.Gox was the biggest exchange company out there which happened to lose majority of their customers' bitcoins. But as said before, when the market grows and the infrastructure gets bigger, the price will stabilize for long periods of times because not single entities(whales) or groups of people can impact the price.

It will be interesting times ahead. I will drown with this ship or find El Dorado...
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 09:46 AM by strengthstudent.)
02-25-2014 09:42 AM
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Barada22 Offline
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Post: #1270
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Anyone buying bitcoins now is insane, big thefts going on right now out of the exchanges.
02-25-2014 10:27 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1271
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 10:27 AM)Barada22 Wrote:  Anyone buying bitcoins now is insane, big thefts going on right now out of the exchanges.

Barada22?

About which exchanges are you referring to, Mt. Gox, other exchanges? There have been several instances of bitcoins getting stolen, but it may NOT be as likely as you are implying. what's the source for your claim(s)?

There are several guys participating in this thread who are buying, selling and mining bitcoins and other crypto currencies, and I doubt that we are insane.... We are taking calculated risks concerning bitcoin for a variety of reasons including investing in a technology and hoping to make some money out of the deal.

Surely, some exchanges are riskier than others and there does seem to be quite a bit of BTC price manipulation going on as has been mentioned, but NOT all exchanges are stealing from its customers.

Also, the situation with Mt. Gox is still NOT conclusive. Whether Mt Gox is closed forever or NOT has NOT been disclosed. Surely, at the moment the Mt. Gox situation does NOT look good for its customers... and could arise to customer claims of the equivalent of billions of dollars... but the Mt. Gox situation has NOT been clarified, yet.

Even though there were signs of troubles with Mt. Gox dating back for several months and even more than a year ago, I do NOT blame its customers for having money in Mt. Gox. I, personally, did NOT consider opening an account with Mt. Gox, based on the difficulties and time delays they were having in processing withdrawals, since about late 2013.
02-25-2014 11:51 AM
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Barada22 Offline
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Post: #1272
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/bus...&referrer=

Unnoticed thefts out of customer accounts. A quick google search will find you plenty more stories.
02-25-2014 11:56 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1273
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 11:56 AM)Barada22 Wrote:  http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/bus...&referrer=

Unnoticed thefts out of customer accounts. A quick google search will find you plenty more stories.

Your earlier post referred to "exchanges", but the article you provided refers to Mt. Gox. Also, the article that you provided seems to have titilating facts that places spin and sensationalism without specifics.... the same as your earlier post.

Here's one stupid ass quote from the referred-t article:

"While other exchanges were briefly hit by problems, they came back online. Mt. Gox never opened up again, prompting speculation about its future."


Saying that Mt. Gox closed but "never" reopened... is very misleading b/c Mt. Gox has only been closed for about 12 hours at the time of my writing this post.

In sum, Barada22, I am NOT sure how it helps to contribute to this thread to tell us in this thread, that there are a bunch of news stories regarding bitcoin out there, if a guy google searches for them, if you do NOT provide some further specifics about what you mean by that or what we are supposed to get out of these various stories.

Your earlier assertion that bitcoin exchanges are stealing and buying bitcoin is insane seems way too general and unsupported by your reference. In other words, there are a lot better sources for better information regarding what is going on with bitcoin besides performing a general google search and finding random articles.
02-25-2014 12:24 PM
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Maciano Offline
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Post: #1274
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Holy fuck, What a heist! 750k btc stolen over 2 years. I never touched Gox bc I knew they were shit, but I had not expected this. On the top of the market, 750k BTC was ~1 Billion $. How on earth can you NOT notice losing 1 BILLION ?

I've got to hand it to the hackers though, if it wasn't a crime, it'd be an accomplishment. They leave great train robber Ronny Biggs in the dust.

Still bullish though, bought some more today. I'm going to double-down.
02-25-2014 12:38 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1275
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Gox having their coins stolen is probably better for the price then if they paid out and everyone dumped the coins into other exchanges. The coins are probably already there if that's what happened.
02-25-2014 12:40 PM
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