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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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FrenchCanadian Offline
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Post: #1601
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-11-2014 03:05 PM)strengthstudent Wrote:  The more you OWN Bitcoin, the more amazing you see the technology.

QFT

Gold has been money for over 4000 years
the intrinsic value consists of non trading value, its one of the feature that is required for something to become money.
The intrinsic value of something adds a safeguard (meaning it can be used for other things than trading)
Gold is used in a wide range of things.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2014 03:20 PM by FrenchCanadian.)
04-11-2014 03:19 PM
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Post: #1602
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
instrinsic trustless exchange

that's more intrinsic value than gold right there
04-11-2014 03:27 PM
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Espresso Offline
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Post: #1603
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  


Did Warren Buffet just compare bitcoin to cheques?? And seemed quite pleased with himself at his 'clever' analogy?

Mindblown2
04-11-2014 04:51 PM
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JJ Roberts Offline
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Post: #1604
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-11-2014 04:51 PM)Espresso Wrote:  Did Warren Buffet just compare bitcoin to cheques?? And seemed quite pleased with himself at his 'clever' analogy?

Mindblown2

Funny how the people who are negative on bitcoin only fall into two categories

1) Those who don't understand it
2) Those who's jobs are threatened by it
04-11-2014 05:10 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1605
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  Bitcoin is a pump and dump scheme.

I must say, you are NOT introducing yourself to this thread with much credibility, especially, if you start out with a comment like that. Raises red flags that you do NOT know what the fuck you are talking about b/c you are throwing in some apparent mainstream observation with little to no backing and according suggesting that the claim is true... or that you are enlightening us in some way.

There are 65 pages here. Did you bother to read any of them? Did you bother to consider that some guys here may already be fairly informed about bitcoin? Did you figure that you were going to shed light on some concept that we have NOT yet considered?

You can make that "pump and dump" claim about almost any asset, investment or commodity that is fairly newly traded and has an uncertain future, yet even though there is some apparent truth to the claim, such a claim is NOT borne out by the facts about bitcoin.. but apparently, you did NOT know that - otherwise, maybe you would have started out your posting a little differently.



(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  It's worth mentioning that bitcoin doesn't allow the government or banks any real control. For this reason, they will most likely find their own version to create and implement in the near future.

Actually, it would probably be pretty clever of a government or any government to attempt this….. but it seems very unlikely that any major government is going to attempt this in the near future. Part of the reason they are NOT going to attempt this strategy is because they are too big and arrogant to consider bitcoin as either a threat or a meaningful innovation that they should adopt. Now, a few years down the road, some major government may attempt such competition; however, they are more likely to attempt to defeat bitcoin by regulating it out of existence or engaging in other attack tactics first. By the time they figure out a good and decent strategy to create a competitor, likely it will be too late.

Regardless of all of this, you are speculating about something that is NOT in the works, and NOT in the short-term cards. Accordingly, we can consider and/or cross that bridge if it comes. .. much down the road.. which should NOT necessarily affect what we are doing today.









(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  Bitcoin had its chance when the mainstream media caught onto it and was soaring in the 1,000s. Even with all that hype, it still came crashing down at an alarming rate by one story.

You really appear to be talking out of your ass and you seem to NOT know what the fuck you are talking about, and part of the problem is that you are projecting an image of bitcoin that is based on a very short term viewpoint. Please put this in perspective, and give us a little context.

Surely NONE of us really know whether bitcoin will every make $1,000 again, even though several of us who are invested into bitcoin believe that it is pretty likely to hit that price again soon, absent some flaws to the fundamentals of bitcoin. Bitcoin’s fundamentals have NOT been found to have any major or significant flaws. Accordingly, there are going to continue to be some battles that affect the price both upward and downward, but if you are saying with absoluteness that bitcoin will NOT reach $1,000 again, you are again projecting way too much certainty into a situation that is NOT completely knowable.. NOT by you or anyone else.

You are correct that it is possible that bitcoin will never see $450 again and $1,000 is less probable than $450. On the other hand, it is possible that BTC will reach $1,000 within one to two weeks (not too likely but possible), and it is also possible that it could take several months or even a year or more to reach $1,000. I am NOT going to belabor the point, except just to reiterate that NONE of this is black and white, and your tone is surely irritating when you come into this thread and suggest that you have some crystal ball vision that the situation is black and white and you know the answer.






(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  It's just too volatile because, as Warren Buffet put it, "It has no intrinsic value."

So you are citing Warren Buffet? That’s profound. Surely, I have quite a bit of respect for Warren Buffet for several reasons; however, his claims about bitcoin are truly NOT something to rely upon.

Part of the reason that Warren Buffet is so wealthy is likely because he does NOT show his hand, and then once he is “in” something, he will let people know that he is “in” – then the asset skyrockets, and and good ole Warren gets out. So Warren’s comments about bitcoin mostly tell us that he is NOT “in,” yet. Bitcoin may be too small potatoes for Buffet because he can make a lot of money in other ways because of the enormity of his already existing wealth. But if Bitcoin were to become bigger, like a 100 billion or maybe a trillion dollar market cap and maybe at such a time,he may be interested in getting in… I kind of doubt bitcoin will be within his direct interest at any point in the near future.. but who knows, he could play a little bit of it on the sides or have one of his affiliates play bitcoin on the sides. He may NOT disclose his cards in that regard, but I would NOT trust what he says about the direction of bitcoin.



(04-11-2014 02:51 PM)YoungBlood Wrote:  The only real winners here are those who mined the coins when it was below 1 cent and sold in the 1,000s.

You are saying some fucked up shit if you are suggesting that the only way to profit off of something is to have a 100,000 times return. That is nearly unheard of –even though it has happened in bitcoin, as you alluded to. A lot more people can profit even if they get 1-2% returns (better than a saving account), and there are chances to lose 100% or to gain several times your investment… even though 100,000 times is likely NOT too possible at this point in time and certainly not very likely to occur in the next few years… because bitcoin is more mature than it was during its initial couple of years.
04-11-2014 05:48 PM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #1606
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in
04-19-2014 07:01 AM
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strengthstudent Offline
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Post: #1607
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 07:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in

Thanks man, I probably invest a very small amount like one btc. They look like they know what they are doing -- that is what really matters. Alt-coins are really worth the investment only in the very beginning because most of them are the real ponzi-schemes. Invest in the beginning and your return can be amazing.
04-19-2014 07:40 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1608
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 07:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in

Aren't you gonna run out of BTC soon, if you keep putting varying amounts of your BTC stash into these various other crypto projects?

Well, to each his own..

Many of us have probably heard that in the BTC sphere, recently, there has been considerable discussions regarding "side chains" - which likely would allow the bitcoin protocol to co-opt features of almost any other crypto currency.. which seems even more reason to be investing a vast majority of resources into bitcoin - rather than into alts.

Though I do NOT doubt that there still could be short-term potential with various alts and getting in on the ground floor.. if you can time your entry into such and into the right one(s).
04-19-2014 08:02 AM
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jamaicabound Offline
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Post: #1609
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 07:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in

Can nyou explain what this safecoin project is? Is it a platform for bitcoins or is it a new coin you can buy with Bitcoins? Checking out their website but kinda confused about what it is exactly.

If it's just an altcoin what makes it different than the dozens of other altcoins popping up all the time that basically go nowhere. Even if you do get a 40% bump for getting in early 40% of something with no trading value or no trading volume is still worthless. I'm kinda confused by what this project is though if someone can elaborate.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2014 12:16 PM by jamaicabound.)
04-19-2014 12:13 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 08:02 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(04-19-2014 07:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in

Aren't you gonna run out of BTC soon, if you keep putting varying amounts of your BTC stash into these various other crypto projects?

Well, to each his own..

Many of us have probably heard that in the BTC sphere, recently, there has been considerable discussions regarding "side chains" - which likely would allow the bitcoin protocol to co-opt features of almost any other crypto currency.. which seems even more reason to be investing a vast majority of resources into bitcoin - rather than into alts.

Though I do NOT doubt that there still could be short-term potential with various alts and getting in on the ground floor.. if you can time your entry into such and into the right one(s).



The below link provides a fairly good discussion to bolster points about how sidechains could strengthen bitcoin to the detriment of alt coins. More or less, what I was trying to assert in my earlier post.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments...idechains/
04-19-2014 12:39 PM
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shanked Offline
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Post: #1611
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
From what I underdtand essentially its not a crypto its made to keep your bitcoins safe. Whether you use the safe network or not it sounds like very good news for bitcoin.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2014 09:11 PM by shanked.)
04-19-2014 09:03 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 09:03 PM)shanked Wrote:  From what I underdtand essentially its not a crypto its made to keep your bitcoins safe. Whether you use the safe network or not it sounds like very good news for bitcoin.


I looked back at my post, and I see that I was likely being very ambiguous about what i was referring to...

First, I was asking Satoshi about the potential dispersion of his investments, but I do understand that there could be many ways to invest in various bitcoin supporting technologies that are NOT alt coins.

Second, I agree with you Shanked that surely if there are mechanisms to bolster either bitcoin security or ease of use or just being able to manage ones bitcoins in easier and safer ways, then those will be very valuable contributions to the bitcoin ecosystem.. and it may be profitable to invest in those systems on the ground floor, and or just that those systems may just cause the value of bitcoin to go up through improving and increasing adoption (hopefully).
04-19-2014 09:25 PM
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JJ Roberts Offline
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Post: #1613
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
The original title of this thread is kinda funny when your realise that bitcoin when up pretty much that percentage in just 4 days last week.
04-20-2014 12:28 AM
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shanked Offline
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Post: #1614
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
Still dont fully understand it so I emailed them. Exciting to have the chance to be in at the start of something.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2014 12:58 AM by shanked.)
04-20-2014 12:46 AM
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Satoshi Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-19-2014 12:13 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  
(04-19-2014 07:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.safecoin.io/
IPO in three days, cool project. Thinking about putting 2-3BTC in

Can nyou explain what this safecoin project is? Is it a platform for bitcoins or is it a new coin you can buy with Bitcoins? Checking out their website but kinda confused about what it is exactly.

If it's just an altcoin what makes it different than the dozens of other altcoins popping up all the time that basically go nowhere. Even if you do get a 40% bump for getting in early 40% of something with no trading value or no trading volume is still worthless. I'm kinda confused by what this project is though if someone can elaborate.
It's not an alt-coin, it's built on the mastercoin protocol witch store it's data in the bticoin blockchain. See the bitcointalk thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577149.0 and the whitepaper https://github.com/maidsafe/Whitepapers/...4-safecoin
There is also a five minute video witch explains pretty good.


Quote:Aren't you gonna run out of BTC soon, if you keep putting varying amounts of your BTC stash into these various other crypto projects?
Got a refund on the Neptune miner since it seems to not going the break even, that's a 5% lost. My mining contracts is break even and gave me about 10% profit. My mastercoins is traded at the same price I bought them for and I will use them to buy MaidSafeCoin. Only thing I lost on is ExeCoin witch I bought when I was drunk. Payed about 2BTC for them and now they are wort like 0.4BTC or something.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2014 04:29 AM by Satoshi.)
04-20-2014 04:29 AM
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Post: #1616
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
I don´t understand what you are actually getting when you invest in MaidSafe?

Isn´t it like a protocol for a distributed p2p version of internet? Like what torrent is for file sharing?

So much innovation going on all over the place atm. Hard to stay on top of it all.
04-20-2014 04:46 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1617
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-20-2014 04:29 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  
Quote:Aren't you gonna run out of BTC soon, if you keep putting varying amounts of your BTC stash into these various other crypto projects?
Got a refund on the Neptune miner since it seems to not going the break even, that's a 5% lost. My mining contracts is break even and gave me about 10% profit. My mastercoins is traded at the same price I bought them for and I will use them to buy MaidSafeCoin. Only thing I lost on is ExeCoin witch I bought when I was drunk. Payed about 2BTC for them and now they are wort like 0.4BTC or something.

Yeah... I am NOT going to really second guess anybody else's strategies when it comes to their various investments... whether alt coins or some other bitcoin related projects. Some of these investments may work better than others and there may be some luck involved (either good or bad).

At this point, I put most of my studies into BTC and my money as well. I believe that all my alt coin investments add up to less than 5% of my total crypto-currency investments... and I have NOT otherwise invested in any other BTC businesses (not yet, anyhow).

I am still considering that I will cash out on the various alt-cryptos on or after the next bubble. That is my current thinking.. however, it may be more strategic to take a loss on the alts before the next BTC bubble and then accordingly just to convert whatever value is currently in those various alts into BTC...

I am a little bit torn about whether or how to employ the stop loss.. but I am thinking that some of the alts will sometimes over perform btc on the short-term, and maybe it would be better to cash out one by one after they have had performance boosts. Luckily these alt coins are NOT a large portion of my cryto-coin investments... NOT exactly toy money, but NOT a great quantity of money invested in them - about the equivalent of 2.7 BTC.


(04-20-2014 04:46 AM)pants Wrote:  I don´t understand what you are actually getting when you invest in MaidSafe?

Isn´t it like a protocol for a distributed p2p version of internet? Like what torrent is for file sharing?

So much innovation going on all over the place atm. Hard to stay on top of it all.

I think that the question with any of these crypto projects is how does it make money, and if it just makes money for BTC or improves the BTC infrastructure, then it may be better to just invest in BTC - rather than investing in these side projects (so yes, we would probably need to be able to understand the monetary value proposition, if there is one)
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2014 05:03 AM by JayJuanGee.)
04-20-2014 04:57 AM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #1618
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-20-2014 04:57 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(04-20-2014 04:29 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  
Quote:Aren't you gonna run out of BTC soon, if you keep putting varying amounts of your BTC stash into these various other crypto projects?
Got a refund on the Neptune miner since it seems to not going the break even, that's a 5% lost. My mining contracts is break even and gave me about 10% profit. My mastercoins is traded at the same price I bought them for and I will use them to buy MaidSafeCoin. Only thing I lost on is ExeCoin witch I bought when I was drunk. Payed about 2BTC for them and now they are wort like 0.4BTC or something.

Yeah... I am NOT going to really second guess anybody else's strategies when it comes to their various investments... whether alt coins or some other bitcoin related projects. Some of these investments may work better than others and there may be some luck involved (either good or bad).

At this point, I put most of my studies into BTC and my money as well. I believe that all my alt coin investments add up to less than 5% of my total crypto-currency investments... and I have NOT otherwise invested in any other BTC businesses (not yet, anyhow).

I am still considering that I will cash out on the various alt-cryptos on or after the next bubble. That is my current thinking.. however, it may be more strategic to take a loss on the alts before the next BTC bubble and then accordingly just to convert whatever value is currently in those various alts into BTC...

I am a little bit torn about whether or how to employ the stop loss.. but I am thinking that some of the alts will sometimes over perform btc on the short-term, and maybe it would be better to cash out one by one after they have had performance boosts. Luckily these alt coins are NOT a large portion of my cryto-coin investments... NOT exactly toy money, but NOT a great quantity of money invested in them - about the equivalent of 2.7 BTC.


(04-20-2014 04:46 AM)pants Wrote:  I don´t understand what you are actually getting when you invest in MaidSafe?

Isn´t it like a protocol for a distributed p2p version of internet? Like what torrent is for file sharing?

So much innovation going on all over the place atm. Hard to stay on top of it all.

I think that the question with any of these crypto projects is how does it make money, and if it just makes money for BTC or improves the BTC infrastructure, then it may be better to just invest in BTC - rather than investing in these side projects (so yes, we would probably need to be able to understand the monetary value proposition, if there is one)

As I understand it you will need Safecoins to store data on the network, you buy the storing space. And "farmers" who store the data will get awarded in Safecoins. Alt-coins go up when bitcoin does, just more. Same way they drop when bitcoin drop only harder. At least that's been the pattern.

BTC is for sure the safest one to have the money in with Litecoins as second.
04-20-2014 06:43 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #1619
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
I understand the purpose of the network. Decentralized storage. Something that sounds like a very interesting project.

Still I´m having problems understanding the motivation to invest in this project.

For storage, what network you are part of dose not really matter as they can all be connected. If RooshV moves from one server park to another does not really affect me in any way.
However for a currency it will be important for me to be able to access most people, then I need to be on the most popular currency-network.

If this MaidSafe is a success, there will be plenty of clones, that would be just as valuable.

Only reason I see, is just hope for hype, and then sell the coins.
04-20-2014 08:39 AM
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Post: #1620
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-20-2014 08:39 AM)pants Wrote:  I understand the purpose of the network. Decentralized storage. Something that sounds like a very interesting project.

Still I´m having problems understanding the motivation to invest in this project.

For storage, what network you are part of dose not really matter as they can all be connected. If RooshV moves from one server park to another does not really affect me in any way.
However for a currency it will be important for me to be able to access most people, then I need to be on the most popular currency-network.

If this MaidSafe is a success, there will be plenty of clones, that would be just as valuable.

Only reason I see, is just hope for hype, and then sell the coins.

It's not a currency.
If Roosh v would like to be on the network Roosh would have to buy Safecoins and pay for the storage/hosting using that. And the BTC gained in the fundraising will go to the foundation to develop the project and pay developers. Didn't read to much about it so I'm not 100% about what I'm writing is true, but as I understand it it's like that.
04-20-2014 09:18 AM
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pants Offline
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Post: #1621
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
Decentralized storage is the goal.

For this they need computers attached to internet available for storage.
The way they get this is by paying this networks equivalent of miners in the bitcoin network with their cryptocoin called SafeCoin.

So they are hoping the safecoin becomes something people value, else people won´t lend their hardware for storage of files from random people on the internet.

I am not bashing the idea, as i think it´s a good idea. I´m just having a hard time understanding how the economics in such a network will work.
04-20-2014 09:45 AM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #1622
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-20-2014 09:45 AM)pants Wrote:  Decentralized storage is the goal.

For this they need computers attached to internet available for storage.
The way they get this is by paying this networks equivalent of miners in the bitcoin network with their cryptocoin called SafeCoin.

So they are hoping the safecoin becomes something people value, else people won´t lend their hardware for storage of files from random people on the internet.

I am not bashing the idea, as i think it´s a good idea. I´m just having a hard time understanding how the economics in such a network will work.
http://deadloch.com/why-you-should-buy-safecoins/
Quote:But will safecoins be able to hold a value? I reckon they will. I think people are getting used to the idea that something completely abstract can be worth something. Bitcoin has helped people come to terms with the idea of a completely digital currency. Safecoin will represent value because they are harvested through the process of contributing useful resources to the network. There will also be a psychological link to worth given by the initial exchange rate of the crowd sale.
.............
If the full number of MaidSafeCoins are sold, approximately $8 million USD will be raised. Assuming safecoin value is representative of the project’s success, this means 10% of the project is valued at $8 million, so logically the entire venture will be valued at $80 million. The question then is; is the SAFE network going to be worth more than $80 million in the future?

Also to mention that all fundraisers similar to this, Mastercoin, Counterparty, Protoshares, Nxt and on have gained value after fundraising been finished. They been working on it for 8 years so they should know what they're doing. On a note I'm not trying to promote anything just explain the trades I'm doing and look for input.

From next month I'm going to be living on my BTCs so if we could chocho a little until it would be great. Whip
04-20-2014 12:47 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1623
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
(04-20-2014 12:47 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  On a note I'm not trying to promote anything just explain the trades I'm doing and look for input.

I'm kind of with Pants on this one and having trouble recognizing that those coin storage investments would be any more valuable than just investing that same quantity in bitcoin. Maybe some other guys can see value in it.. like the potential payoff is worth the risk?

If I ever become bitcoin rich.. maybe I would engage in such investments to help the overall infrastructure while potentially profiting at the same time. Currently, I am far from bitcoin rich... given the current seemingly depressed bitcoin prices.




(04-20-2014 12:47 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  From next month I'm going to be living on my BTCs so if we could chocho a little until it would be great. Whip

Earlier today, I came across this article, which is fairly bullish about the long-term prospects of bitcoin (by suggesting that we could likely reach $2,000s by the end of July, but even does provide that it is possible (but less likely) that bitcoin will go into the 100s. Interesting read, yet in my thinking it would be great if a guy is able to defer drawing upon his bitcoin until the next bubble.. which hopefully will take place this year. I appreciate that this may NOT be practical for some guys.
04-20-2014 02:21 PM
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JJ Roberts Offline
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Posts: 1,091
Joined: Aug 2012
Post: #1624
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
Good article.

Martingale strategy is what I have been doing. Just didnt realise there was a name for it.
04-20-2014 03:32 PM
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brg444 Offline
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Posts: 102
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #1625
RE: The Bitcoin thread (formerly "Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month")
Bitcoin is in stealth mode right now.

I like it
04-20-2014 03:49 PM
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