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Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(05-30-2013 12:55 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  WWT,
You want to hire quality, educated, english speaker competent workers without breaking the bank? Just two words: the Philippines. This is where it's at! Why pay 1k+ per site to a freelancer when you can hire a full time competent web designer for 5-700 bucks a month there? I'm going to be hiring an entire team of qualified workers for myself there in the near future. The opportunities there are simply phenomenal. I'm going to leave it at that and not say anything else on that topic but you get the gist of it. Smile

Hey VP,

Yeah, I am interested in Phils but not for programming. You can get better programmers in Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. I will look into the Phils for maybe customer support, graphics and possibly multi media work.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2013 10:06 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
05-31-2013 10:05 AM
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ThailandRockstar Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
I agree that why waste your time selling $7 ebooks when you can sell high ticket items. It really does take the same amount of time and effort to create the sites, market them, set up your autoresponder emails etc so instead of slinging $7 products go for $700.

Also agree that the customers buying the cheap products are usually the worst and most demanding. They want everything under the sun for a measly $7 and expect the world from you. If you don't reply instantly to their emails they're doing chargebacks on Paypal and bad mouthing you.
05-31-2013 01:06 PM
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xsplat Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(05-31-2013 10:05 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(05-30-2013 12:55 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  WWT,
You want to hire quality, educated, english speaker competent workers without breaking the bank? Just two words: the Philippines. This is where it's at! Why pay 1k+ per site to a freelancer when you can hire a full time competent web designer for 5-700 bucks a month there? I'm going to be hiring an entire team of qualified workers for myself there in the near future. The opportunities there are simply phenomenal. I'm going to leave it at that and not say anything else on that topic but you get the gist of it. Smile

Hey VP,

Yeah, I am interested in Phils but not for programming. You can get better programmers in Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. I will look into the Phils for maybe customer support, graphics and possibly multi media work.

Ya, SE Asia sucks for programming. I'll also be looking to open an office in Eastern Europe for programming needs.
05-31-2013 10:54 PM
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worldwidetraveler
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Post: #29
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
Some great information here, thanks for the tips worldwidetraveler.
06-01-2013 03:47 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(02-17-2013 04:04 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Sell expensive shit:

I have one list that has about 200 or so people on it. I just sent out an email and pocketed close to 4k last week. Just one email and a pathetically small list.

I am honestly impressed at how much Roosh is making on his books being they are priced so low. Too low in my opinion.

It really isn’t any more difficult selling an expensive product compared to a low priced on. Competing on price is bad form and a limiting mind set.
Your income will increase a ton simply by selling higher priced stuff.

I am not saying you don’t sell any low priced stuff. It really depends on the reason. It isn’t a bad idea to sell lower priced to get customers into your sales funnel in order to sell them higher priced products.

Honestly, I don’t even deal with lower priced product anymore.

By lower price, I mean sub $100.

I get a better customer that doesn’t give me a hard time; I get lower refunds and list that will make me much more money the way I am doing it.

The reason selling expensive stuff sells well is because it exploits a basic heuristic in a person's brain.

Some people have wrongly concluded that because you get what you pay for that just because it is expensive it equals quality. Sellers know that some people automatically think price equals quality and exploit that fact.

People are inherently lazy to do research on their own, and will just assume that if something is more expensive, it is higher quality.

The laziness is so pervasive, people will even trust the seller to do the work and save them money.Mailed-out coupons that because of a printing error offered no savings to recipients produced just as much customer response as did error-free coupons that offered substantial savings. The obvious but instructive point here is that we expect discount coupons to do double duty. Not only do we expectthem to save us money, we also expect them to save us the time and mental energy required to think about how to do it.

These examples are from a great book called Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini. Its a great book that everyone should read because the principles can be applied not just to the consumer market but also to game.
06-01-2013 02:14 PM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(06-01-2013 02:14 PM)Vakarian Wrote:  The reason selling expensive stuff sells well is because it exploits a basic heuristic in a person's brain.

Some people have wrongly concluded that because you get what you pay for that just because it is expensive it equals quality. Sellers know that some people automatically think price equals quality and exploit that fact.

People are inherently lazy to do research on their own, and will just assume that if something is more expensive, it is higher quality.

The laziness is so pervasive, people will even trust the seller to do the work and save them money.Mailed-out coupons that because of a printing error offered no savings to recipients produced just as much customer response as did error-free coupons that offered substantial savings. The obvious but instructive point here is that we expect discount coupons to do double duty. Not only do we expectthem to save us money, we also expect them to save us the time and mental energy required to think about how to do it.

These examples are from a great book called Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini. Its a great book that everyone should read because the principles can be applied not just to the consumer market but also to game.

Great book but that wasn't my point.

My point was, it's as easy to sell expensive stuff as it is cheap stuff. You go through the same steps, the same marketing, the same copy...

If your expensive stuff doesn't deliver, your refunds and charge backs go up.
06-01-2013 04:32 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
double post...
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2013 04:34 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
06-01-2013 04:32 PM
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manilaguy Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(05-31-2013 10:54 PM)xsplat Wrote:  
(05-31-2013 10:05 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  
(05-30-2013 12:55 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  WWT,
You want to hire quality, educated, english speaker competent workers without breaking the bank? Just two words: the Philippines. This is where it's at! Why pay 1k+ per site to a freelancer when you can hire a full time competent web designer for 5-700 bucks a month there? I'm going to be hiring an entire team of qualified workers for myself there in the near future. The opportunities there are simply phenomenal. I'm going to leave it at that and not say anything else on that topic but you get the gist of it. Smile

Hey VP,

Yeah, I am interested in Phils but not for programming. You can get better programmers in Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. I will look into the Phils for maybe customer support, graphics and possibly multi media work.

Ya, SE Asia sucks for programming. I'll also be looking to open an office in Eastern Europe for programming needs.

Why does SE Asia suck for programming?

There are multinationals developing their software here. I know talented programmers from Phils are shipped abroad for more lucrative contracts so the talent is world class.

Maybe the initial culture shock but you can always get a good labor market guide to scour for part-timers -- try to find a locator who works on the ground instead of online.
06-04-2013 03:30 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
Just want to add if you are selling cheap $7 ebooks or whatever make sure it's just for lead generation and you have a strategy on the back end to funnel them into high ticket offers or higher priced products.
06-04-2013 03:42 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(06-04-2013 03:30 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  Why does SE Asia suck for programming?

There are multinationals developing their software here. I know talented programmers from Phils are shipped abroad for more lucrative contracts so the talent is world class.

Maybe the initial culture shock but you can always get a good labor market guide to scour for part-timers -- try to find a locator who works on the ground instead of online.

Actually all I know is that Indonesia sucks for programming. It's quite difficult to find anyone qualified here. I've been trying for years. The people simply are not here.
06-04-2013 11:34 PM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(06-04-2013 03:30 PM)manilaguy Wrote:  Why does SE Asia suck for programming?

There are multinationals developing their software here. I know talented programmers from Phils are shipped abroad for more lucrative contracts so the talent is world class.

Maybe the initial culture shock but you can always get a good labor market guide to scour for part-timers -- try to find a locator who works on the ground instead of online.

There are good programmers in every country. That doesn't mean they are in abundance and available.
06-05-2013 02:11 AM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(05-30-2013 12:40 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  I mean why would any sane person waste their time, resources an efforts in promoting and selling something that makes them peanuts while they can be doing the exact same effort for infinitely rewarding and truly life enhancing amounts? Say you're selling a 40 bucks ebook or item, ask yourself, how many of those will you need to sell to have 5k in your pocket per month? A shit load of them! Now, on the other hand, say you're selling something that makes you 1k, 2k or 3k+ per sale, how many will you need to sell to reach that same 5k/month goal? A LOT less than you would need with your 40 bucks ebook/item. This is not rocket science, it's pure common sense guys!

Does someone can provide an example of a small online business website that sells products or services with a 1k+ margin?
06-06-2013 11:36 AM
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Kristian Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
great article!

I have a couple of doubts and things to point out:

*" Once you build up your cashcow, and then invest it in something else that doesn’t require a lot of time"

Which examples of cashcows could you tell me?

*Can you tell me some examples of evergreen products?

I'm newbie in this world but willing to know everything about it!

*"I have one list that has about 200 or so people on it"
what kind of list do you have?newsletter?

*Could you show us what kind of products are you offering?(send me MP if you preffer on private)

great post!
08-05-2013 06:16 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(08-05-2013 06:16 AM)Kristian Wrote:  great article!

I have a couple of doubts and things to point out:


Hey Kristian,

Quote:*" Once you build up your cashcow, and then invest it in something else that doesn’t require a lot of time"

This is after you get your business running and it's making a lot of money. You can reinvest into your business or invest it in other things.

That could be stocks, bonds, real estate. Something that will get you a return on your money without working too much on maintenance.

Right now, I am investing nearly everything back into my business. Once I finish up some big projects, I will probably get into equity lending.

Once you start getting more money than you need, you should be looking at investments that don't require you to take a lot of time from your main business.

Quote:*Can you tell me some examples of evergreen products?

Making money, Health, and dating will always be in demand. You got a lot of sub niches in there. These markets will always have an abundance of people coming in every year. They are huge and allow for many different products that can be created for the same customer.

Making money = real estate, internet marketing, stocks, forex, wholesaling, etc...

Health = Weight loss, Acne, Bodybuilding, Look younger, etc...

Dating = How to get your ex back, Game (text game, online game, day game, club game, inner game), etc...

Quote:*"I have one list that has about 200 or so people on it"
what kind of list do you have?newsletter?

My list is customers who purchased my products. I sell and create software for a couple of niches. I won't get into specifics in order to maintain some anonymity. Wink
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2013 06:53 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
08-05-2013 06:47 AM
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Kristian Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(05-30-2013 12:40 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  How did I miss this awesome post/thread?
Smashing post WWT! You and Xsplat dropped some true gems of wisdom for the young guys in here! What truly caught my attention and had me nodding my head thinking "this guy gets it!" is what you wrote below. I've been saying the exact same thing for years, not only in here but around me to people I know. I learned the hard way, that it takes the same effort, amount of money and time, to sell a cheap 20-50 bucks item than it does a 2-3 even 5k item/package! You still have to write copy for it, run your ad, have your email follow ups, your sales funnel etc...

I mean why would any sane person waste their time, resources an efforts in promoting and selling something that makes them peanuts while they can be doing the exact same effort for infinitely rewarding and truly life enhancing amounts? Say you're selling a 40 bucks ebook or item, ask yourself, how many of those will you need to sell to have 5k in your pocket per month? A shit load of them! Now, on the other hand, say you're selling something that makes you 1k, 2k or 3k+ per sale, how many will you need to sell to reach that same 5k/month goal? A LOT less than you would need with your 40 bucks ebook/item. This is not rocket science, it's pure common sense guys!

Another beauty of the higher end items is that you can afford to be more adventurous, daring in your advertising and play with a bigger budget to promote your biz, to run a full page ad in a magazine/newspaper, to hire help when needed (copywriter, webdesigner, SEO, customer service etc...) that you wouldn't be able to with a lower priced item (unless you were selling a vast volume of them). You know why you can afford to do all that with a higher end product? It's because you only need 1 or at most 2 sales per month to recoup your costs and any sale after is pure gravy.

It may sound crazy that people would buy 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k and + items/packages/softwares/memberships, but there is a specific market for that.
Not only there is a market for these higher end products/items but you'd be surprised how many would buy them direct from the site, without getting in touch with the person selling it. I've sold quite a few 3k packages where the person went to my site, liked what they saw and bought it on the spot. You literally have to pinch yourself when you get those fat commission notifications, even after the 20th time!

Heck, I've been selling a higher end package at 2k, 3k and 5k for 5 years and won't be getting anywhere near anything that makes me less than at the very least 1k. Why should I? When you're making 3200+/sale, you'd have to be crazier than crazy to waste your time promoting and selling a measly 20-50-100 or even 500, heck even a 1k a pop would be a major pay cut!

Another great advantage of selling higher end products is that you deal with a higher level of people! Some of the worst prospects/clients are those that buy the cheap stuff yet expect to get VIP treatment! And way lower refund requests! In 5 years of selling high end items, I have yet to receive a single refund request! (Knock on wood!) Try that with a lower end product!

All in all, higher end items, is where it is at - truly! Just ask yourself: which will get you to 5k/month faster? Selling 2 memberships a 3k commission a pop or a cheap ebooks at 40 bucks per sale? A no brainer really! To make a comparison to girls, if the exact same effort and time would land you a 4-5 and a 8-9 or even a 10, which one would you go for?

(02-17-2013 04:04 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I was selling the software for 2k a pop and it sold quite a bit. I know many people say they could live just about anywhere for 2k a month. Imagine only selling one program a month to get that.

Sell expensive shit:

I have one list that has about 200 or so people on it. I just sent out an email and pocketed close to 4k last week. Just one email and a pathetically small list.

I am honestly impressed at how much Roosh is making on his books being they are priced so low. Too low in my opinion.

It really isn’t any more difficult selling an expensive product compared to a low priced on. Competing on price is bad form and a limiting mind set.
Your income will increase a ton simply by selling higher priced stuff.

I am not saying you don’t sell any low priced stuff. It really depends on the reason. It isn’t a bad idea to sell lower priced to get customers into your sales funnel in order to sell them higher priced products.

Honestly, I don’t even deal with lower priced product anymore.

By lower price, I mean sub $100.

I get a better customer that doesn’t give me a hard time; I get lower refunds and list that will make me much more money the way I am doing it.

sounds great!

which King of products would be ideal for the fitness industry?(those who have a big value near to 1K more or less) I mean..most of products and program that are in the market usually are quite cheap
08-11-2013 06:52 AM
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worldwidetraveler Offline
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(08-11-2013 06:52 AM)Kristian Wrote:  sounds great!

which King of products would be ideal for the fitness industry?(those who have a big value near to 1K more or less) I mean..most of products and program that are in the market usually are quite cheap

We are not going to hand hold you through the process. You need to do your own market research.
08-11-2013 07:13 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
Wrote some software in 2002. I made widgets for software developers, and sold them for $69.95 a pop. With hindsight I should have sold them for 2-3 times that.

Still, that one idea made me $100,000.

Like the op, I made a red widget, then sold a blue widget and a green widget. That was great for upselling bundles.

My example also proves that there's good money to be made outside of the weight loss/exercise/dating niches.

For ideas, just look for something you do in your day job that your company could sell, but it would cost them too much to develop. These ideas are FREAKING GOLDMINES for guys working from home.

Stuff I've seen on my travels...
Chinese Ladies Mapped by Province
08-11-2013 11:19 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
Thank God WWT linked to this in another thread--hidden gem of a thread, +1 man.

I actually just closed a deal to take over a bunch of IM-type stuff from a site that has a big list (mid 5-figs), but that's fallen on some hard(ish) times, mainly because they've neglected product creation for like 5 years and pumped the list with affiliate offers too often, so there's some sales fatigue there. Going to handle the copywriting (of course), but also some product creation, email marketing, etc.

Don't want to get into my gameplan too much, but essentially I hope to do some direct market research, build products around the results, launch them with extras/discounts/time constraints, and then turn those launches into autoresponders for new sign-ups from here on out.

A couple questions:

1) Sound like a viable course of action?

2) Any shifts in the market that any IM-types have seen over the past few years? The biggest one I can think of is the "Promotions" tab in gmail and other email providers that's a bit of a cockblocker tard. Any way around this short of begging your list to put you in the "main" tab?

3) Other advice? I'm happy to PM you if you want more details on the niche, products, etc.

Thanks man--great stuff.

Vigo
12-29-2014 02:38 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(12-29-2014 02:38 PM)Vigo_the_Carpathian Wrote:  Thank God WWT linked to this in another thread--hidden gem of a thread, +1 man.

I actually just closed a deal to take over a bunch of IM-type stuff from a site that has a big list (mid 5-figs), but that's fallen on some hard(ish) times, mainly because they've neglected product creation for like 5 years and pumped the list with affiliate offers too often, so there's some sales fatigue there. Going to handle the copywriting (of course), but also some product creation, email marketing, etc.

Don't want to get into my gameplan too much, but essentially I hope to do some direct market research, build products around the results, launch them with extras/discounts/time constraints, and then turn those launches into autoresponders for new sign-ups from here on out.

A couple questions:

1) Sound like a viable course of action?

2) Any shifts in the market that any IM-types have seen over the past few years? The biggest one I can think of is the "Promotions" tab in gmail and other email providers that's a bit of a cockblocker tard. Any way around this short of begging your list to put you in the "main" tab?

3) Other advice? I'm happy to PM you if you want more details on the niche, products, etc.

Thanks man--great stuff.

Vigo

Hey Vigo!

Most of that list probably won't amount to anything.

I have one list that I ended up killing and wasn't really able to bring it back to life. Not so much hitting it up with offers but neglecting emailing them and then hit them up with some offers on some products that I release only to neglect them again. haha

Here is what I would do...

You're going to want to start a brand new conversations with them. I would go through the landing pages that these people signed up for to see what type of info they where looking for when they signed up.

Then start emailing them with information that helps solve some of those problems. They may or may not have the same problems but it's better than shooting in the dark.

In the beginning, I would try and get as many of these people to sign up for new lists. You really need to segregate that baby out because most of that list is probably worthless. Do try and pluck out the gems by getting them to sign up again and by doing so you have a better understanding of what they are looking for information wise.

After you get those segregated, start having conversations with them. You don't want to randomly hit them up every few months like I did with that one list. You want to make sure you keep the list warm so when you do send out a promotion they will be ready to read it.

I found sending a brief email and linking to a blog (or forum post in my instance) with more details to be much more effective than simply laying everything out in email.

By using the blog, facebook page or a forum post, you're creating an interactive conversation instead of read this and click this link type of stuff.

You should test all of this out.

The more conversations, the more information your customers will confide in you and that is where you start seeing patterns for products. Surveys work well but only after you build up a relationship with these people. That should be your focus with this old list.

Then you keep building your list by adding new people that want the same info. Never stop adding people! You may survive for months or even years but it will end if you don't keep adding more.

It doesn't take a large list to make a lot of money. I had a list of 200 or so people and pulled in 10k in one promotion from that list. I routinely made more money from that small list for years. I don't think people realize how much money they can make from a smaller list of just the right people.

It's a game so have fun trying out new stuff. Never be afraid of testing something new out.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2014 04:16 PM by worldwidetraveler.)
12-29-2014 04:09 PM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
I don't know how I missed this thread but its awesome. I long suspected you knew much more than you seemed to let on.

We were meant for far more than to suffer in our self created prisons only to die alone. It doesn't have to be that way. It never did.
12-30-2014 03:01 AM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(12-30-2014 03:01 AM)Fisto Wrote:  I don't know how I missed this thread but its awesome. I long suspected you knew much more than you seemed to let on.

Thanks man! That is one of the coolest things about this forum. We got guys will all types of expertise with the right mindset. Most guys here enjoy seeing others succeed and are willing to help in that regards. From a networking standpoint, there are few places that can compete with RVF.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2014 06:00 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
12-30-2014 05:06 AM
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
What a great thread.

I reckon my business expertise would work really well as some form of online monthly subscription service or a package of knowledge of some sort.

Food for thought!
12-30-2014 06:41 AM
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worldwidetraveler
worldwidetraveler Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
(12-30-2014 06:41 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  What a great thread.

I reckon my business expertise would work really well as some form of online monthly subscription service or a package of knowledge of some sort.

Food for thought!

I have no doubt you could capitalize on your expertise. I think most people have some type of expertise to make some money from.

I tested out a monthly subscription product line and the majority would bump out around the 3 month mark. I have had people stay for 12 months but the average was 3 months.

I'm not a big fan of monthly stuff any longer unless it is something that is painful for them to be without.

I think I mentioned this in the OP, but I have one product line that could be a monthly thing. Once finished, I plan on around 10 to 12 products in that line.

I won't be going the monthly way, though.

I do plan on offering a product, from that line, once a month. Then I will pull that product and put up another product from that line. They have one chance to get the product and after that they may have to wait another year.

I may do an upsell where the can get all of them for a nice fee.

I have been working on my big product line for years. It's a product I sold as a one time fee that I am re-purposing for a specfic market. This one will be a yearly rate and a monthly rate depending if they have multiple users from all over the word.

This product was created to run businesses so if they don't continue there is a big pain point because all of their data is within the program. Besides trying to figure out what else to use (people don't like change).

So if you can build something where they rely on your expertise and it would be painful to be without your expertise, then I would say do the monthly. If not, you may want to create some standalone products for specific problems in the industry and sell those. You can always upsell with one on one consultation which can bring in huge amounts of money.

I always suggest testing this stuff out. I could be totally wrong because markets are different.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2014 08:12 AM by worldwidetraveler.)
12-30-2014 07:58 AM
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roid Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
I think it is difficult to sell info products in membership wise, the burn rate is high. Going for SaaS is a better strategy for membership.
12-30-2014 09:50 AM
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worldwidetraveler
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RE: Advice I will tell myself after 6 years of selling products online.
I've read this whole thread and I'm lost to be honest, I'm trying to understand how you get started in this industry and how you make money, there's a lot of knowledge on this around the forum but I have plenty of spare time so I'll invest that in reading here. I'm still confused going through what I've read as I keep seeing the same keywords - products, affiliates, lists. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the key thing is to have a product first off right? You can't just jump in taking someone elses product?

Don't forget to check out my latest post on Return of Kings - 6 Things Indian Guys Need To Understand About Game

Desi Casanova
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12-30-2014 10:22 AM
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