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Question about bulking/cutting - ryanf - 04-08-2013 08:25 PM

For guys who do the common bulking/cutting cycles of working out, how do you manage clothing fitment? I lost 30 lbs of doughy fat mess, was very lean, started getting solid fitting clothes. Then I began bulking, and as soon as I got on about 10/12 lbs, clothes fitment was off. Then I went back down a few lbs, and then, well you see where I am going.

What do you guys do? Keep a set of outfits for each?


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - TheCaptainPower - 04-08-2013 08:27 PM

Its a pain in the ass, I don't swing too much "UP" in bulk anymore. It was becoming impossible to get the fat off every year. But if you are going to make those huge swings then you need to save a set of double outfits..


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Nascimento - 04-08-2013 08:28 PM

Currently not big on the whole bulking/cutting thing. The past 8 months I have worked out regularly, but the most my weight has shifted is about 10 pounds. Gained only some muscle mass, but a lot of strength. So far, nothing to bother my clothing and fit.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - RoverT - 04-09-2013 09:40 AM

(04-08-2013 08:27 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  Its a pain in the ass, I don't swing too much "UP" in bulk anymore. It was becoming impossible to get the fat off every year. But if you are going to make those huge swings then you need to save a set of double outfits..

The classic bulk/cut routine sees diminished returns quickly, primarily because your body is exceptionally good at creating new fat cells and extremely inefficient when it comes destroying them. Even when you cut and lose the fat, the fat cells themselves are still there, albeit in a condensed state. They then balloon back up when you bulk again, literally making you fatter with each bulk with less muscle. It becomes easier and easier to gain fat, and harder and harder to gain lean muscle and lose said fat during the cut.

You would do better to aim to gain one pound of lean muscle a weak and maintain clean eating habits. It will take longer to tip the scale, but you will ensure you're gaining only muscle, and aesthetically, you will look better (175-lbs at 8% BF looks more impressive than 195 at 18%).

Kroc did a decent write up on "clean bulking" if you're looking to get started.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Jaylow - 04-09-2013 10:05 AM

My winter clothes are all bigger then my summer clothes since I bulk in the winter and cut by the time its summer.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - alecks - 04-09-2013 05:42 PM

reverse dieting


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Every10GivesMeA10 - 04-09-2013 06:17 PM

(04-08-2013 08:25 PM)ryanf Wrote:  For guys who do the common bulking/cutting cycles of working out, how do you manage clothing fitment? I lost 30 lbs of doughy fat mess, was very lean, started getting solid fitting clothes. Then I began bulking, and as soon as I got on about 10/12 lbs, clothes fitment was off. Then I went back down a few lbs, and then, well you see where I am going.

What do you guys do? Keep a set of outfits for each?

Not a big fan of classic bulking/cutting cycles for natural lifters... It's a different story if you're enhanced. If I had to bulk I would make sure I'm at least at 10%BF before starting and gain not more than a pound a week. Your metabolism takes a huge hit from all the cutting and bulking, especially if you fuck up your bulk like most first timers.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Jaylow - 04-09-2013 08:57 PM

(04-09-2013 06:17 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  Not a big fan of classic bulking/cutting cycles for natural lifters... It's a different story if you're enhanced. If I had to bulk I would make sure I'm at least at 10%BF before starting and gain not more than a pound a week. Your metabolism takes a huge hit from all the cutting and bulking, especially if you fuck up your bulk like most first timers.

This. I am cutting for the last time and once all my abs are visible I will do a very slow bulk and keep my low bodyfat and slowing gain muscle instead of over eating during the Winter.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - DBCooper - 04-10-2013 05:55 AM

I used to go through the trap of bulking up too fast by eating nothing but shit, would see my abs blurring, and then panic and start cutting calories again whilst training at the same intensity - the results were that I just went round in circles.

Agree with the guys who are behind lean body mass gains - a lot of people now consider the process of 'bulking' and then 'cutting' a bit antiquated on account of the fact that's less efficient than gaining mass slowly through sensible eating.

Can't really comment on timeframe for weight gain because it varies a lot for everyone, but I'd be happy with 2lbs of dry new muscle a month... a 1lb a week would be incredible, but I don't think I've got the hormones/genetics for that.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - RoverT - 04-10-2013 09:35 AM

(04-10-2013 05:55 AM)DBCooper Wrote:  Can't really comment on timeframe for weight gain because it varies a lot for everyone, but I'd be happy with 2lbs of dry new muscle a month... a 1lb a week would be incredible, but I don't think I've got the hormones/genetics for that.

It's rough. You have to take in around 5,000-6,000 calories a day, all of them clean. It's insanely difficult, which is why I have pretty much given up on "bulking" and am looking more to stay around 175-185 and just get strong as hell.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - WanderingSoul - 04-10-2013 11:19 AM

(04-10-2013 09:35 AM)RoverT Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 05:55 AM)DBCooper Wrote:  Can't really comment on timeframe for weight gain because it varies a lot for everyone, but I'd be happy with 2lbs of dry new muscle a month... a 1lb a week would be incredible, but I don't think I've got the hormones/genetics for that.

It's rough. You have to take in around 5,000-6,000 calories a day, all of them clean. It's insanely difficult, which is why I have pretty much given up on "bulking" and am looking more to stay around 175-185 and just get strong as hell.

6,000 calories a day? Is that correct? To gain one pound per week he would need to consume and extra 3,500 for the week, right? So 500 a day above maintence. Wouldn't that be closer to 3,000-4,000 a day for most people? What am I missing here?


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - GenJx - 04-10-2013 11:44 AM

can you hold your weight and reduce your body fat %? how would you do this if you already eat pretty clean? just lift heavier?


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Giovonny - 04-10-2013 03:59 PM

Get your body the way you want it. Buy clothes that fit. Keep your body that way.

Why the need to swing back and forth between big and small???

Why not just get your body the way you want it and keep it that way???

(04-10-2013 11:44 AM)GenJx Wrote:  can you hold your weight and reduce your body fat %?

Yes

(04-10-2013 11:44 AM)GenJx Wrote:  how would you do this if you already eat pretty clean? just lift heavier?

Yeah, basically. Eat cleaner and lift heavier.

Eat more during the day and less at night.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - DBCooper - 04-10-2013 04:01 PM

(04-10-2013 11:19 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 09:35 AM)RoverT Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 05:55 AM)DBCooper Wrote:  Can't really comment on timeframe for weight gain because it varies a lot for everyone, but I'd be happy with 2lbs of dry new muscle a month... a 1lb a week would be incredible, but I don't think I've got the hormones/genetics for that.

It's rough. You have to take in around 5,000-6,000 calories a day, all of them clean. It's insanely difficult, which is why I have pretty much given up on "bulking" and am looking more to stay around 175-185 and just get strong as hell.

6,000 calories a day? Is that correct? To gain one pound per week he would need to consume and extra 3,500 for the week, right? So 500 a day above maintence. Wouldn't that be closer to 3,000-4,000 a day for most people? What am I missing here?

I can't speak for Rover personally, but that does seem a bit steep...for me anyway.

You're right in that 500 above maintenance is in the 3,000 - 4,000 range for most - but again this varies massively on the intensity, volume and frequency of training, metabolism, recovery etc. Not to mention the size of the individual, also.

The best I find approach is to keep a log and track your intake - treat your body like an experiment by manipulating the variables to attain the results you want.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - mikeymike - 04-10-2013 05:39 PM

Bulking and cutting comes down to your goals...if your goal is to ever get seriously big then you need to bulk and bulk legit...and when you want to see what you have left you cut. If your goal is to be beach ready then get lean and stay lean and pack on your 5 pounds of muscle a year till you hit what you want and then maintain. You cannot, will not, get to a respectable size by clean bulking unless your genetics are through the roof, and by genetics I mean your drug intake.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - MikeCF - 04-10-2013 05:53 PM

(04-10-2013 03:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Get your body the way you want it. Buy clothes that fit. Keep your body that way.

Why the need to swing back and forth between big and small???

Why not just get your body the way you want it and keep it that way???

[I'm actually working on a post about the "10 Commandments of Bulking."]

That's fine if you wanna look "fit."

If you wanna be a big boy, it doesn't work that way.

Your body doesn't magically partition nutrients towards muscle. It's like you add 500 kcals a week and all 500 go towards muscle. Some is gonna hit fat cells, too.

Your body is going to take caloric excess and partition it to muscle and fat.

For most guys, you're going to gain 1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle. (You change that ratio if you already start off bulking super lean or if you're running some good drugs. Even with gear, though, you're gonna lay on some fat and the abs are gone.)

You're also going to lose muscle while dieting. If you diet smart, you'll lose 1 pound of muscle for every 3-5 pounds of fat. (Again, you can use clen and other stuff to mitigate this. But you're gonna lose muscle when dieting, gear or no gear.)

So if you want to gain 10 pounds of muscle in a year, you need to gain around 25 pounds of total weight. That's means you're gonna lay on 10 or so pounds of fat.

Most guys look the same in the gym year after year and that's because they never go through a period where they are "too fat."

If a person just wants to look fit or have a decent build, that's cool. A lot of guys are always switching routines, doing PX90, and just looking for a way to "work out."

The guys you see and think, "That's a big guy" have paid their dues in chubby boy land, though, and there's really no way around it.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - MikeCF - 04-10-2013 05:56 PM

(04-10-2013 11:19 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  6,000 calories a day? Is that correct? To gain one pound per week he would need to consume and extra 3,500 for the week, right? So 500 a day above maintence. Wouldn't that be closer to 3,000-4,000 a day for most people? What am I missing here?

IMHO, 6k is too many cals for anyone not on an extreme amount of gear.

That said, muscle gains come in a non-linear fashion.

You might gain no weight (despite eating too many calories) for weeks and then suddenly you gain 5 pounds seemingly overnight.

It'd be great if we could just say, "I wanna gain 1 pound a week. Therefore I'm gonna eat 500 kcals more a day."

It just doesn't work that way, though.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - WestCoast - 04-10-2013 05:59 PM

All of what mike said, I would add though "chubby is relative". Ex: if you are naturally lean and have a body builders body it's not like you are going to develop a gut. If you are naturally cut up, you may actually sustain lots of your abs, gained 10 lbs over the last year and my abs went from extremely obvious, to barely visible, back to obvious.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Every10GivesMeA10 - 04-10-2013 07:16 PM

Result of months and months of dirty bulking:
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/542678_453479531373639_85128547_n.jpg

After cutting:
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/537486_360621280710134_1467493970_n.jpg

This guy could be on gear but I don't see doing a dreamers bulk to be effective for a natural athelete with average genetics.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - ryanf - 04-10-2013 09:03 PM

(04-10-2013 03:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Get your body the way you want it. Buy clothes that fit. Keep your body that way.

Why the need to swing back and forth between big and small???

Why not just get your body the way you want it and keep it that way???


(04-10-2013 11:44 AM)GenJx Wrote:  can you hold your weight and reduce your body fat %?

Yes

(04-10-2013 11:44 AM)GenJx Wrote:  how would you do this if you already eat pretty clean? just lift heavier?

Yeah, basically. Eat cleaner and lift heavier.

Eat more during the day and less at night.

Mostly because I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm going off of stuff I read online. I don't like the quick weight gain ( I do gain weight rather quickly ), because at my lowest, I was just starting to see ab definition. Now I'm on my way back down. I am fine being patient and getting slow gains, I just made the mistake of going off of what now appears to be bad information. I like the idea of getting as lean as makes sense and then putting on small increments of lean mass.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Chilled - 04-10-2013 10:48 PM

I'm relatively new to bodybuilding, but I'm pretty sure there are some misconceptions happening in this thread.

First off, no one should be eating 6000 cals a day, thats fuckin crazy. Unless you're a 7 foot tall motherfucking juggernaut there's no way you need that much food to grow.

Second, when you're talking about a clean vs a dirty bulk, it has nothing to do with the types of foods you're eating. It's about how much over your maintenance your diet is. This video sums it up pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbPUOhmAYzU

Also, the number of fat cells in your body is exactly the same through your entire life, it never changes, short of you losing a body part or something. When you gain fat, your fat cells are getting bigger, not multiplying.

Like I said, I'm new to weightlifting, but I've been researching like a motherfucker since I started a few months ago.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Giovonny - 04-11-2013 01:49 AM

(04-10-2013 05:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 03:59 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Get your body the way you want it. Buy clothes that fit. Keep your body that way.

Why the need to swing back and forth between big and small???

Why not just get your body the way you want it and keep it that way???

[I'm actually working on a post about the "10 Commandments of Bulking."]

That's fine if you wanna look "fit."

If you wanna be a big boy, it doesn't work that way.

Your body doesn't magically partition nutrients towards muscle. It's like you add 500 kcals a week and all 500 go towards muscle. Some is gonna hit fat cells, too.

Your body is going to take caloric excess and partition it to muscle and fat.

For most guys, you're going to gain 1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle. (You change that ratio if you already start off bulking super lean or if you're running some good drugs. Even with gear, though, you're gonna lay on some fat and the abs are gone.)

You're also going to lose muscle while dieting. If you diet smart, you'll lose 1 pound of muscle for every 3-5 pounds of fat. (Again, you can use clen and other stuff to mitigate this. But you're gonna lose muscle when dieting, gear or no gear.)

So if you want to gain 10 pounds of muscle in a year, you need to gain around 25 pounds of total weight. That's means you're gonna lay on 10 or so pounds of fat.

Most guys look the same in the gym year after year and that's because they never go through a period where they are "too fat."

If a person just wants to look fit or have a decent build, that's cool. A lot of guys are always switching routines, doing PX90, and just looking for a way to "work out."

The guys you see and think, "That's a big guy" have paid their dues in chubby boy land, though, and there's really no way around it.

Hmmm..Interesting.

I don't know much about bodybuilding? Is that what this is? A plan for bodybuilding? I think so..

So, basically, bodybuilders have to get fat before they can get in shape?

And, every year, they fluctuate between big and fat and then big and lean.

Thats a hell of a way to workout. But, if thats what you have to do to get really big, then good luck.

I just wonder, is this bodybuilding style really the right strategy for most guys?

It's so much eating, and you are fat half of the year. Is bodybuilding even that healthy of a lifestyle?

I guess it depends on the quality of food and the fitness level of the individual. I'm sure there are healthy bodybuilders and unhealthy bodybuilders. I see some guys who have huge muscles but also a permanent gut. And, some bodybuilders are ripped beasts.

I guess everyone has to find the diet/workout system that works for them.

Bodybuilding, endurance training, explosive training, sport specific training, general health maintenance, flexibility, etc.

I do it all as I need to. I am constantly tweaking my workouts to address the needs of my body and my current goals.

I have never wanted get really big. I'm not a big eater. I hate forcing myself to eat.

I guess thats is the point. I am not trying to be a body builder. I just train to be fit and healthy, with a body that most girls will like. If I ever want to get huge I will have to get fat first before a can cut into a more lean bodybuilder, I get it.

I just wonder of the OP really wants to be a bodybuilder?


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - DBCooper - 04-11-2013 04:36 AM

(04-10-2013 05:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  [I'm actually working on a post about the "10 Commandments of Bulking."]

That's fine if you wanna look "fit."

If you wanna be a big boy, it doesn't work that way.

Your body doesn't magically partition nutrients towards muscle. It's like you add 500 kcals a week and all 500 go towards muscle. Some is gonna hit fat cells, too.

Your body is going to take caloric excess and partition it to muscle and fat.

For most guys, you're going to gain 1 pound of fat to 1 pound of muscle. (You change that ratio if you already start off bulking super lean or if you're running some good drugs. Even with gear, though, you're gonna lay on some fat and the abs are gone.)

You're also going to lose muscle while dieting. If you diet smart, you'll lose 1 pound of muscle for every 3-5 pounds of fat. (Again, you can use clen and other stuff to mitigate this. But you're gonna lose muscle when dieting, gear or no gear.)

So if you want to gain 10 pounds of muscle in a year, you need to gain around 25 pounds of total weight. That's means you're gonna lay on 10 or so pounds of fat.

Most guys look the same in the gym year after year and that's because they never go through a period where they are "too fat."

If a person just wants to look fit or have a decent build, that's cool. A lot of guys are always switching routines, doing PX90, and just looking for a way to "work out."

The guys you see and think, "That's a big guy" have paid their dues in chubby boy land, though, and there's really no way around it.

Looking forward to that thread.

I've accepted that, even if I was running upwards of a gram of exogenous test a week and pinning some good deca, I'm going to get fatter when eating to build mass, even if it's just a bit. I'm always on the line between saying 'fuck it' and not worrying too much about my bf% for the sake of gains and crying like a bitch when my abs blur.

That's a good point about 25 total lbs for 10lbs of muscle - I like to think that if you wanted to be a lean (8-10%bf) 200lbs then at some point you'd need to weigh about 220+. If gains were linear and muscle added consistently at 2lbs a month to 1lb of fat then there would be a lot more jacked dudes about.


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - Giovonny - 04-11-2013 11:56 AM

(04-10-2013 05:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  So if you want to gain 10 pounds of muscle in a year, you need to gain around 25 pounds of total weight.

(04-11-2013 04:36 AM)DBCooper Wrote:  That's a good point about 25 total lbs for 10lbs of muscle

This seems strange to me..?

In order to gain 10 pounds of muscle, I also have to add 15 pounds of fat???

This hasn't been my experience. I can gain muscle without adding ANY additional fat.

I recently observed WestCoast put on about 10 pounds of pure muscle with NO FAT GAIN.

Of course, we are not bodybuilders so getting alot bigger may require some fat gain.

But, for the average guy who is just looking to get in shape and be fit, I don't think adding 15 pounds of fat is necessary to gain 10 pounds of muscle.

Maybe, bodybuilding vs. general fitness is apples and oranges..?

This thread will advance my knowledge..


RE: Question about bulking/cutting - DBCooper - 04-11-2013 03:04 PM

(04-11-2013 11:56 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  
(04-10-2013 05:53 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  So if you want to gain 10 pounds of muscle in a year, you need to gain around 25 pounds of total weight.

(04-11-2013 04:36 AM)DBCooper Wrote:  That's a good point about 25 total lbs for 10lbs of muscle

This seems strange to me..?

In order to gain 10 pounds of muscle, I also have to add 15 pounds of fat???

This hasn't been my experience. I can gain muscle without adding ANY additional fat.

I recently observed WestCoast put on about 10 pounds of pure muscle with NO FAT GAIN.

Of course, we are not bodybuilders so getting alot bigger may require some fat gain.

But, for the average guy who is just looking to get in shape and be fit, I don't think adding 15 pounds of fat is necessary to gain 10 pounds of muscle.

Maybe, bodybuilding vs. general fitness is apples and oranges..?

This thread will advance my knowledge..

This has been my experience, but hey, if I can improve and build more muscle without the referenced amount of fat gain using knowledge someone here has I'll sit up and listen.

Everyone is different, that's the key thing to remember about any of this. I don't doubt 10lbs of lean muscle gain for a second, but it once again comes down to many factors, an often overlooked one is time scale.

For me personally, I noticed my biggest gains when I got a little fatter at the same time - when I try to gain muscle without fat, it's a much slower process.

That being said, I do still prefer to try and gain and stay lean at the same time for the most part...but when I really want to burst a plateau, and fast, I'll start pounding the chow.