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I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Kaii - 07-22-2014 10:07 AM

This will be a rant. I work for a large bank doing IT work. I am supposed to be a senior level engineer with SCCM (Systems Center Configuration Manager for the geeks here). However, instead of doing cool engineer work like designing application virtualization, or zero-touch imaging or anything related to the level I am supposed to be working at, they have me doing bullshit busy work and helpdesk level shit.

It is unbelievable to me how management can be in IT and know nothing about technology. Or, the amount of whiny fucking people you have to work with. Of course, there are plenty of women here who also don't do anything and complain all the time.

I have been in the industry for a while and worked my way up from call center bitch to engineer. It's becoming more and clearer to me that the only way I will ever be happy is to work for myself, or a company that gives me freedom in my schedule and my workload.


I would love to quit and just do my own thing, however, like most of us, I have financially obligations.


Have any of you been in this situation? How did you handle it?

I really just want to feel free.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - TravelerKai - 07-22-2014 10:40 AM

(07-22-2014 10:07 AM)Kaii Wrote:  This will be a rant. I work for a large bank doing IT work. I am supposed to be a senior level engineer with SCCM (Systems Center Configuration Manager for the geeks here). However, instead of doing cool engineer work like designing application virtualization, or zero-touch imaging or anything related to the level I am supposed to be working at, they have me doing bullshit busy work and helpdesk level shit.

It is unbelievable to me how management can be in IT and know nothing about technology. Or, the amount of whiny fucking people you have to work with. Of course, there are plenty of women here who also don't do anything and complain all the time.

I have been in the industry for a while and worked my way up from call center bitch to engineer. It's becoming more and clearer to me that the only way I will ever be happy is to work for myself, or a company that gives me freedom in my schedule and my workload.


I would love to quit and just do my own thing, however, like most of us, I have financially obligations.


Have any of you been in this situation? How did you handle it?

I really just want to feel free.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great.

I am an IT consultant and started out more or less exactly like you did. I work primarily with Microsoft and VMware stuff.

I will tell you the same thing a CCIE, that owned a million dollar house, told me years ago.

You have to be willing to leave.

There are no promotions in IT. There are no raises and bonuses in IT. Especially OPEX areas like support, infrastructure, networking, etc.

You need to adopt a "Fuck You, Pay Me." attitude.

If you want to get out of the helpdesk? Get certs and quit. Want to get out of Jr. Administrator or Admin level? Quit. Want to stop being an engineer? Wait 5 years and then quit. Want to stop being an Architect or Consultant and jump to the C Suite or director level? Get a MBA and then quit.

That is your natural corporate progression in Information Technology.

All that said, I am trying to make the jump into being location independent and live abroad or split time between the US and China. Perhaps trade, construction, or other things between China and Africa will yield great opportunities to guys in our age group.

If you or others on RVF are interested in things like this (I have already spoken to a handful already about this stuff), lets keep in touch over PMs and perhaps we can someday find some niche that alot of us can share into.

Eventually IT will start culling more and more jobs, not because of Indians with HB1s or too much competition, but because the technology itself may eventually render these jobs useless. I am already seeing the wall myself. The cloud is not going anywhere and will make a bigger come back for round 2, once the storage gets much smaller and cheaper. Can you imagine a crystal rock storing terabytes without needing lots of cold air to keep cool? Datacenter guys might be okay in the next five years, but what about in 10 years?

Think about that.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - JuanQuinQuin - 07-22-2014 10:46 AM

(07-22-2014 10:07 AM)Kaii Wrote:  This will be a rant. I work for a large bank doing IT work. I am supposed to be a senior level engineer with SCCM (Systems Center Configuration Manager for the geeks here). However, instead of doing cool engineer work like designing application virtualization, or zero-touch imaging or anything related to the level I am supposed to be working at, they have me doing bullshit busy work and helpdesk level shit.

It is unbelievable to me how management can be in IT and know nothing about technology. Or, the amount of whiny fucking people you have to work with. Of course, there are plenty of women here who also don't do anything and complain all the time.

I have been in the industry for a while and worked my way up from call center bitch to engineer. It's becoming more and clearer to me that the only way I will ever be happy is to work for myself, or a company that gives me freedom in my schedule and my workload.


I would love to quit and just do my own thing, however, like most of us, I have financially obligations.


Have any of you been in this situation? How did you handle it?

I really just want to feel free.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great.

1. Get a side Job where you could pull at least 1000 USD every month. That will give you confidence. Create a Customer Base and see what happen. Do not jump until you are at least 50 percent financially secure.

2. Work for small to medium companies. I know how you feel. I have worked for fortune 500 companies, eg. Coke Cola, Raytheon. Big corporations are overrated. Your are trading your human intellect for PC BS everyday. Every time I receive a call from recruiters, first question I ask is whether this employer is a big corporation or not. if it is, I just say I cant deal with the HR BS of big companies. They will understand.

3. Find an industry where you are in contact with women but not working for them or with them. Do not ever ever accept a position where your boss is a woman.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Tigre - 07-22-2014 10:46 AM

(07-22-2014 10:07 AM)Kaii Wrote:  Have any of you been in this situation? How did you handle it?

Build out your LinkedIn profile and revise your CV.

Get in touch with recruitment agencies. They will bring you leads for new jobs.

Become a clock watcher at your job. Spend 2 to 3 hours a day on productive work. Use the rest of your work day and mental bandwidth for your own personal tasks. For example:
- research the local job market
- set up meets from internet dating
- organize your social life
- learn a new job-related skill

Best practice is to only do those things on your own personal devices and separate from the company network.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - rudebwoy - 07-22-2014 11:29 AM

Another great thread, I am also in the field.

Please put me on the list of pm's.

I am about to hang myself, I don't have a female boss but I have to work with female marketing managers who know shit.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - starchild5 - 07-22-2014 11:39 AM

We do not have any choice...Choice is an illusion to keep our hopes alive so that we would do slavery for the corporations.

I"m from India and we were given the same dream...ohh...Make it to America on H1B and you will be living the American Dream...When you do come to America and work your life off...You are just made to compare how your life "Improved" from third world to "first world" and you are not suppose to question your life anymore be happy what you got, you did not had that before in India.

Do not question CEOs million dollar paycheck who never write any codes, do not question your work load, work hours..Just be happy because now you are in America.

Corporate life in America is created for slaves. Period. The corporations love the immigrants like us as we do not ask for raise, bonus, promotions or question corporate hierarchy ...We are just happy to be here...and we are coming in millions now from all over.

Plus, Jobs are being exported to India and China for low cost.

If you are an American....As one member said...You guys need to UNITE, JOIN FORCES as your own kind who are on top do not want you to exist as they have us now to replace you easily.

Why would they want an American who will question a lot, knows the laws to sue them when they can hire 10 more in same salary.

You are Detroit in the making..You will be like Detroit in next 10 years...Join Forces if you are an American ...Create your own business....The corporations have found new slaves in us.....

I do not think at this period in time....Americans can expect anything from America aka corporations...It has chewed you up, used you for good and spit you out now and it wants new immigrants like us, fresh blood to run its empire of slavery and after few decades, we will be also be spit out once we are not longer required..

Join Forces...That's the way out of American Slavery aka Corporations...

Good luck


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Brisey - 07-22-2014 11:55 AM

Also an IT consultant, I started with servers/AD/networking but I was on piss poor money and not going anywhere. I then did a shitload of certs in Project management, process improvement, security, six sigma, IT best practice stuff and went contracting. Rates are good and there's demand pretty much all over.

TravelerKai, I'd definitely be interested in being on your Pm list.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - JuanQuinQuin - 07-22-2014 12:05 PM

(07-22-2014 11:39 AM)starchild5 Wrote:  We do not have any choice...Choice is an illusion to keep our hopes alive so that we would do slavery for the corporations.

I"m from India and we were given the same dream...ohh...Make it to America on H1B and you will be living the American Dream...When you do come to America and work your life off...You are just made to compare how your life "Improved" from third world to "first world" and you are not suppose to question your life anymore be happy what you got, you did not had that before in India.

Do not question CEOs million dollar paycheck who never write any codes, do not question your work load, work hours..Just be happy because now you are in America.

Corporate life in America is created for slaves. Period. The corporations love the immigrants like us as we do not ask for raise, bonus, promotions or question corporate hierarchy ...We are just happy to be here...and we are coming in millions now from all over.

Plus, Jobs are being exported to India and China for low cost.

If you are an American....As one member said...You guys need to UNITE, JOIN FORCES as your own kind who are on top do not want you to exist as they have us now to replace you easily.

Why would they want an American who will question a lot, knows the laws to sue them when they can hire 10 more in same salary.

You are Detroit in the making..You will be like Detroit in next 10 years...Join Forces if you are an American ...Create your own business....The corporations have found new slaves in us.....

I do not think at this period in time....Americans can expect anything from America aka corporations...It has chewed you up, used you for good and spit you out now and it wants new immigrants like us, fresh blood to run its empire of slavery and after few decades, we will be also be spit out once we are not longer required..

Join Forces...That's the way out of American Slavery aka Corporations...

Good luck

This. Every time I hear Bill Gates or another big Tech CEO saying that America has a lack of talent, I just have to laugh at the hypocrisy of our Congress and system. But, this is what it is and it has been that way since the dawn of men. I just adopt a I do not Give a fuck attitude and worry about getting more money. I always remember my self that GE pays 0 taxes to really understand that people in Pennsylvania Avenue do not really have my best interest.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - DJ-Matt - 07-22-2014 12:20 PM

(07-22-2014 10:46 AM)JuanQuinQuin Wrote:  1. Get a side Job where you could pull at least 1000 USD every month. That will give you confidence. Create a Customer Base and see what happen. Do not jump until you are at least 50 percent financially secure.

3. Find an industry where you are in contact with women but not working for them or with them. Do not ever ever accept a position where your boss is a woman.

I'm on my way to quitting by next year I hope. One way you can speed up this process is cutting living expenses to the bone. All I need is a few more customers that I can bill regularly and it'll be time.

My boss was replaced recently with a woman who has something to prove I can tell already. I hope she doesn't suddenly decide there's a need to butt in and screw things around here.

You're right about no raises, I've never got one and I asked the guy at my current job who's been here 5 years and he didn't either. Difference for him is they're changing his job roles to more responsibility so if I was him and that didn't involve a raise then it is time to bail. This might be a small town but companies here are desperate for competent IT help. Small biz is also desperate for IT contractors that are as well, so that's where my own business comes in. Big Grin


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - JuanQuinQuin - 07-22-2014 12:37 PM

(07-22-2014 12:20 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  
(07-22-2014 10:46 AM)JuanQuinQuin Wrote:  1. Get a side Job where you could pull at least 1000 USD every month. That will give you confidence. Create a Customer Base and see what happen. Do not jump until you are at least 50 percent financially secure.

3. Find an industry where you are in contact with women but not working for them or with them. Do not ever ever accept a position where your boss is a woman.

I'm on my way to quitting by next year I hope. One way you can speed up this process is cutting living expenses to the bone. All I need is a few more customers that I can bill regularly and it'll be time.

My boss was replaced recently with a woman who has something to prove I can tell already. I hope she doesn't suddenly decide there's a need to butt in and screw things around here.

You're right about no raises, I've never got one and I asked the guy at my current job who's been here 5 years and he didn't either. Difference for him is they're changing his job roles to more responsibility so if I was him and that didn't involve a raise then it is time to bail. This might be a small town but companies here are desperate for competent IT help. Small biz is also desperate for IT contractors that are as well, so that's where my own business comes in. Big Grin

LOL, Yep. I remember when I was fresh out of college thinking that big corporations are where an Engineer is suppose to go. But when I landed I only saw inefficiency, political correctness to the maximum, white knights, and women in key positions just because they blown some guy or because the HR political correct squat wanted it so, and the most BS issue, 65% of my time was spent on filling documents and permission to do something that at the end was going to be denied because I was going to be in the middle of the war between two departments.

I said to the hell with this life. I spent two more years in that company but I was just a clock watcher. Funny thing, I got a lot of praises for my work during that time. LOL, old corporations can only survive because of big government interference or subsidies. Take the H1B Visa program out of Microsoft, and they will sink considerably.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - roid - 07-22-2014 01:17 PM

The problem is that you work for a bank. IT in banking is all about support and maintenance. Very rarely you will do exciting things. IT in most corporate are cost centers. To be in profit center, you need to work for tech companies like Google, Facebook, Path, etc. Of course in their core dev team, not in some support work. I wish you all the best.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - roid - 07-22-2014 01:18 PM

(07-22-2014 10:46 AM)Tigre Wrote:  Build out your LinkedIn profile and revise your CV.

Get in touch with recruitment agencies. They will bring you leads for new jobs.

Become a clock watcher at your job. Spend 2 to 3 hours a day on productive work. Use the rest of your work day and mental bandwidth for your own personal tasks. For example:
- research the local job market
- set up meets from internet dating
- organize your social life
- learn a new job-related skill

Best practice is to only do those things on your own personal devices and separate from the company network.

Finding a new job is just a short term solution. Eventually he will hit the same issue over and over again.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Kaii - 07-22-2014 01:18 PM

Great responses already. You guys make me feel better and give me ideas on how to get out. I appreciate it.

I like the idea of PM ing each other. Maybe we can all come up with a plan that will benefit all of use.

You guys rock!


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - roid - 07-22-2014 01:22 PM

(07-22-2014 10:40 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  Eventually IT will start culling more and more jobs, not because of Indians with HB1s or too much competition, but because the technology itself may eventually render these jobs useless. I am already seeing the wall myself. The cloud is not going anywhere and will make a bigger come back for round 2, once the storage gets much smaller and cheaper. Can you imagine a crystal rock storing terabytes without needing lots of cold air to keep cool? Datacenter guys might be okay in the next five years, but what about in 10 years?

Exactly and that's why I am switching over to become an actuary. IT jobs have low barrier of entry. Actuary, however, has very high barrier of entry. Most people with decent IQ can do IT, not everyone with decent IQ can do actuary.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - roid - 07-22-2014 01:25 PM

These links are worthy to read:

http://www.doodlekit.com/blog/entry/55860/top-10-reasons-why-corporate-it-sucks
http://www.juliandunn.net/2006/02/17/project-management/
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2012-04-22/software-engineers-will-work-one-day-for-english-majors


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - roid - 07-22-2014 01:26 PM

Why a career in computer programming sucks

Finally, the highly anticipated essay on why computer programming sucks.

Temporary nature of knowledge capital

Let’s being by reviewing what I previously wrote about the four types of human capital. Computer programming is a job that’s heavily dependent on temporary knowledge capital. It’s temporary because the powers that be keep changing the languages and tools that programmers need to do their jobs. In nearly all other professions, knowledge capital increases as you grow older because you keep learning more about your field. But in computer programming, the old knowledge becomes completely obsolete and useless. No one cares if you know how to program in COBOL for example. It’s completely useless knowledge.

Even though I haven’t been working in computer programming all that long, I have already seen most of the technologies that I first began working with become relegated to the garbage pile. Visual Basic 3.0-6.0? Useless knowledge. I haven’t seen any vintage Visual Basic since 2002. And don’t confuse Visual Basic.NET with the classic Visual Basic. They are really completely different technologies.

So what advantage does a 60-year-old .NET programmer have over a 27-year-old .NET programmer when they both have, at most, 5 years of experience doing .NET programming? Absolutely none. I’d make the case that it’s better to hire the 27-year-old because he is still at the stage of his career where he enjoys the stuff and is therefore more motivated to learn and work harder, while the 60-year-old is surely bitter about the fact that he’s getting paid less than the younger programmers. No one wants a bitter employee.

This assumes that the 60-year-old programmer has even learned .NET programming. Every time a new language or technology comes out, the programmer faces a fork. In one direction he gets to work with the new technology, and in the other direction he continues working with the old technology for too long and therefore falls too far behind to catch up. The older you get, the easier it is to wind up going the wrong way when you reach one of these forks. Because as hard as it may be for a 22-year-old to imagine, as you get older your desire to completely relearn everything decreases, so you are likely to succumb to the temptation of staying with the familiar technology for too long.

Because of the temporary nature of the knowledge capital, computer programmers quickly reach a stage in their career when their old knowledge capital becomes worthless at the same rate as they acquire knew knowledge capital. Their total knowledge capital is no longer increasing, so neither does their salary increase. They have reached the dead end plateau of their career, and it happens after less than ten years in the field.

Other professional fields are not like this. I remember reading the classic 1933 edition of Securities Analysis by Benjamin Graham, and as I read it I was amazed by how useful and relevant the material was even though it was more than 65 years old.

Lawyers are still citing Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England which was completed in 1769. Now there’s an example of a profession where knowledge capital deteriorates at a very slow rate.

Low prestige

Computer programming is a low prestige profession. This is evidenced by the fact that people from affluent families rarely go into computer programming but instead will seek out the more prestigious professions such as law, finance, and medicine. Of course there are some exceptions. There was a programmer who worked for me whose father was a doctor. But more typical was another programmer who never finished college and whose favorite hobby was hunting.

And that brings us to the issue of education. Students at Ivy League universities are not majoring in computer programming. There is a prestigious school, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, devoted to science and engineering, and while I’m sure that there are some students there who are majoring in “computer science,” the science that’s taught isn’t related to the dirty low-prestige job of creating e-commerce websites using ASP.NET. On the other hand, practical computer programming is a popular major at bogus for-profit schools like Devry “University” and the “University” of Phoenix.

Now some may ask, “Who cares if the prestige is low, as long as we’re getting paid good money?” This is a fair question. First of all, there are some practical social benefits to having others perceive your profession as being prestigious. As a Chinese immigrant at the University of Virginia wrote, “whatever your position is, as a CS person, you are socially classified as a geek. At my school, University of Virginia, being a rich frat boy and having a future in investment banking or law gets you a lot further status-wise even though you may not necessarily be paid more.”

But the prestige of the profession affects both the work environment and the future economic viability of the profession, as will be discussed below.

The foreignization of computer programming

I’m sorry about using a word that doesn’t exist in the dictionary, but foreignization best explains what’s happening in the computer programming industry.

First of all, there is the familiar outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries, mostly India. Because of this, the computer programming industry within the United States is an industry with a shrinking number of jobs, although as a worldwide phenomenon I’m sure computer programming will grow at a brisk rate. Would outsourcing of computer programming and other IT jobs be such a big trend if the industry were more prestigious? I think not. You don’t see lawyers being outsourced. In fact, by law, only members of the bar are allowed to practice law, so it would be illegal for foreigners to do American legal work.

The other half of foreignization is the near abandonment of the domestic IT market to foreigners. This is a trend that is accelerated by the issuance of special H1-B visas that allow extra computer programmers to come here and take jobs away from American programmers. Computer programming (along with nursing) has been specially targeted by our government for foreignization.

Foreignization creates a vicious circle effect with the low prestige of the profession. Because the profession has low prestige, employers balk at the idea of having to pay high salaries (while it seems perfectly appropriate if a lawyer or investment banker is making a lot of money). Thus the demand for more H1-B visas so that salaries can be decreased. In turn, Americans see an industry full of brown people speaking barely intelligible English, and this further lowers the industry’s prestige. Computer programming and IT in general is now seen as the foreigner’s industry and not a proper profession for upwardly mobile white Americans. [The Indian and Asian people I've known in the IT industry are nice people, and normally I don't pay attention to their different appearance, so this should not be taken as a racist dislike of non-white people. I am only accurately describing the fact that the typical white American thinks negatively of a profession that's predominately non-white. And I stand by my belief that people born in this country have more rights to the money being created here than foreigners. Asian countries feel the same way about foreigners. Asian countries are, typically, a lot less open to foreign worker immigrants than is the U.S.]

Because there is no reason to think that the trend of foreignization will reverse, this will ensure that the future of the industry will be lower salaries.

Project management sucks too

In order to escape a job where the future is bleak for older programmers due to the rapid depreciation of computer programming knowledge capital, computer programmers face the need to move up to management or likely wind up as underemployed fifty-year-olds, only suitable for lower paying IT jobs like “QA” because they no longer know how to use the latest and supposedly greatest programming tools.

It is often suggested that the most natural next move “up” is into project management. But the first problem with this situation is that project management sucks too. It doesn’t even deserve to have the word “management” in the title, because project management is akin to management as Naugahyde leather is to leather. Project planner and status reporter is the more correct title for this job. Once you take the word “manager” out of title, it loses a lot of its luster, doesn’t it? Everyone wants to be a manager, but few would want to be a project planner and I daresay no one would want to be a status reporter. Status reporting is generally the most hated activity of anyone who endeavors to do real work.

One can’t write about project management without mentioning the worst piece of software every written, Microsoft Project. Somehow, an entire project management industry has developed around this crappy program which no one can figure out how to use. (See my previous post about Microsoft Project Server and Battlestar Galactica.)

Formal project management is more of a pseudo-science than a real profession, because despite the increasing use of formal project management methods approved by the Project Management Institute (yes they have their own institute), there is no evidence that software is getting better or that fewer software projects fail today than did ten years ago when formal project management was in its infancy.

The growing popularity of project management has nothing to do with better software. It’s really more designed to please senior management (the real managers who control the purse strings). Real managers, who usually don’t understand anything about computer programming but who don’t like the idea that they have to pay high salaries to a bunch of people from foreign countries, love the reports presented by project managers, because the reports create the illusion that progress is happening and that the money being spent on the IT project is not being wasted.

Even if the computer programmer wishes to sell his soul and enter the pseudo-scientific field of project planning and status reporting, the transition is becoming more difficult. The trend is that project management is branching off into its own discipline with its own educational requirements and certification process. Thus the experienced computer programmer will usually find that employers aren’t interested in having an ex-computer programmer “manage” a project, but rather they seek someone with PMI certification and years of experience in project management.

This trend, in which people without computer programming experience manage computer programming projects, is a result of the low prestige of computer programming. People with high prestige jobs, like surgeons, would never allow themselves to be managed by non-surgeons. In a complicated medical procedure there will be a head surgeon overseeing the surgery, and not a project manager without any medical training. Lawyers have Model Rule 5.4 which makes it unethical for non-lawyers to manage lawyers.

Obviously, the problem with the computer programming industry is that it lacks a central organization to create barriers to entry and to lobby state and local legislatures.

The working conditions suck

This relates to the prestige thing again. When a company I worked for wanted to save money on rent, guess what department they decided to move to the low rent satellite office? You guessed it, the IT department.

If you look forward to one day having your own private office, then computer programming sure isn’t the way to go. At a law firm, each lawyer has his own private office. Computer programmers are cubicle employees, not considered important enough to be given nice workspaces.

Employers are even too cheap to invest in proper tools for the computer programmers. Take monitors, for example. Every computer programmer knows that modern development tools are easiest to use if you have a really big monitor, because you can see more lines of code at the same time, and because there are a bunch of ancillary windows which steal screen space from the main code window. My home monitor is a 21” 1600 x 1200 Samsung SyncMaster 214T, and it sure was worth the $900 or so that I paid for it. An employer interested in getting the most productivity out of its software developers would supply them with proper high quality monitors, but they don’t. In every job I ever worked, the computer programmers never had the best monitors.

If you walk over to the graphic arts department, you will see really big monitors. The graphics people could surely make do with smaller monitors, but even though they make less money than computer programmers, they have been able to convince higher level management that their work requires better hardware. When computer programmers request better hardware, they are often seen as whining geeks who just want to waste the company’s money on unnecessary high-tech toys.

Other professionals get proper tools to do their job. For example, lawyers are given access to Westlaw or Lexis, and a library of books. The amount of money per year per lawyer spent on research materials most surely exceeds the money per computer programmer per year spent on computer hardware. If lawyers were treated with the same disrespect as computer programmers, they would be told to stop whining about the lack of research materials and to go use the public law library.

So what's a good profession?

After spending so much effort explaning why computer programming sucks, I think it's only fair to suggest some better professions for any young people who might be reading this. Unfortunately, that's hard to do. The best professions, because they are so good to work in, have more people trying to enter than there is room for them. Thus you can graduate with a law degree and find that no one wants to admit you to any of the good legal career tracks.

I think that, if you can't get into a Top 14 law school or a top graduate business schol, then public accounting probably provides a better career path than computer programming. You need to start out as an auditor at a Big Four accounting firm, and the salary in the early part of your career won't be as high as in computer programming, but at least older accountants are valued for their experience and knowledge. It's a career where you can still be employed at forty or fifty.

If you are technically oriented, then you should consider a career in patent law. This requires you to get an engineering degree and then go to law school. Because such a tiny percentage of law school graduates are qualified to take the patent bar, you will be able to get jobs in intellectual property law which the other law school graduates are unqualified for.

Copy pasted from halfsigma.com (now defunct)


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - ryanf - 07-22-2014 01:47 PM

I'd like to be on that list, being an IT guy myself


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Blaster - 07-22-2014 01:58 PM

IT has a low barrier to entry, yes, but that's primarily for the low-end jobs. The high-paying stuff tends to require experience and expertise in useful technologies.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - JuanQuinQuin - 07-22-2014 02:26 PM

I think some people tend to be envious of other professions but the lawn is not usually green on the other side. I have worked closely with doctors and other people in the Health Care Industry and I will not change being an high paid IT guy to being a doctor . The amount of work doctors have to put is insane. After insurance that money is not so great. I remember that for a typical doctor pulling 160 G's and the average work schedule is 65 hrs, the pay is only around 55 $/hr. no biggie in my opinion.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Icarus - 07-22-2014 05:27 PM

(07-22-2014 12:05 PM)JuanQuinQuin Wrote:  This. Every time I hear Bill Gates or another big Tech CEO saying that America has a lack of talent, I just have to laugh at the hypocrisy of our Congress and system.

There's also a lack of HB8-9 porn stars willing to fuck unemployed, broke, overweight neckbeard omegas for free. It does not mean there's a lack of porn talent...

Will the porn industry also be "disrupted" by Czech and Hungarian porn sluts with H-1Bs? Whatever


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Alpha Hunter Zero - 07-22-2014 07:21 PM

I'm currently studying to become an Engineer myself. It would awesome to be included in that list of PMs as well.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Cattle Rustler - 07-22-2014 07:35 PM

Add me to the PM list, por favor.

And gracias.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - game_ethic - 07-22-2014 07:36 PM

Add me to that PM, too.

Computer Science major here studying to become a Software Engineer.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - Peregrine - 07-22-2014 08:13 PM

(07-22-2014 01:17 PM)roid Wrote:  The problem is that you work for a bank. IT in banking is all about support and maintenance. Very rarely you will do exciting things. IT in most corporate are cost centers. To be in profit center, you need to work for tech companies like Google, Facebook, Path, etc. Of course in their core dev team, not in some support work. I wish you all the best.

This right here. I work at a bank. You know what cutting edge browser we're running?

IE8.

I still remember the day that I got local admin rights and installed Chrome.


RE: I hate the corporate world, especially in IT - xxMarco - 07-23-2014 03:26 AM

I too like OP went from Call center geek to Engineer and it has been a struggle. Got out of college and worked my ass of for a bunch of certs. After working a few odd jobs and small businesses I decided to go for a job with a big corporation. Started from the bottom in the call center. At one point we got a female CIO who decided to outsource major parts of our IT department. After less than a year she was demoted for a big fuck up on a large project upgrade. We are still recovering from that big fuck up and even though our call center was eliminated and outsourced overseas, I was only laid off briefly as I transitioned to engineer.

Its been 3 years employed at this company and upper management is unbelievably incompetent. I have no idea how these people get management jobs without knowing anything about IT. The corporate politics are crazy as well. I spend 70% of my time doing paperwork about a change then actually doing the work.

Thinking about starting my own business or moving. Not sure how other cities are doing but my city isn't all that great to be in the IT field.

Put me on that PM list if its not too late