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Giving up on Fellow Men - Irenicus - 01-17-2016 10:32 AM

Hello folks, hope you folks are doing well in this year so far.

I have a bit of a dilemma, and I woud like to hear some opinions from you guys.

I will put this thread on Deep Forum, because this topic has more to do with philosophy than lifestyle.

Since I discovered neomasculinity, I have seen that a lot of men close to me suffer in their lives in one way or another. Basically, I felt the that one of my duties is to help as much men as possible to get their lives together. After all, every man we save is one less potential SJW to fight.

A few days ago, I am starting to suffer a burnout from all of this however. Lots of men think that all that I preach is very nice in theory, but impossible in practice – they really want to believe in things such as soulmates, unconditional love etc.

It is really painful to see people, good men, march willingly into their doom.

Now, the question, is it better to spend all this energy to keep bettering myself – to do things I never thought possible before, or to keep trying to save people I care about who do not really want to be saved?

TLDR – is it, in your opinion, justified to give up on a fellow man?


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - thoughtgypsy - 01-17-2016 11:01 AM

You might gain some more thoughts by reading this thread:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-52190.html


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Hades - 01-17-2016 11:05 AM

Nobody likes unsolicited opinions from people they consider average. If you're getting a lukewarm response then you haven't done enough self improvement yet. You might also need better friends.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Seth_Rose - 01-17-2016 11:23 AM

At lunch the other day a new intern asked me to join him for lunch. I obliged. When I got to the cafeteria I saw some other interns, all female, and sat with them. When he finished buying lunch, he decided to sit with someone else (a cute girl) playing the role of beta-orbiter, totally ignoring us. All I could do was shake my head at how quickly guys my age will throw their fellow man under the bus in order to be simply in the presence of pussy.

After that incident I realized most guys my age are feminine in many respects, so I might as well talk to the real pussy instead of fake ones!

And no, don't try and help other guys without being solicited. It is only a waste of time.

Like Hades said--you need better friends. They're hard to come by. Try starting a thread in the 'Meetup' section on this forum, may be some cool guys in your area.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Blueberry - 01-17-2016 11:31 AM

You have to accept that most people are just not ready for the cold hard truth and are comfortable in the matrix.
Telling them straight up red pill truths is just too much and will close them to the ideas even more.
You can still give some red pill wisdom here and there to plant a seed for people you might think have the potential to unplug, or for people who might ask you more about it.
Other than that I just feel it's better to focus on yourself and your journey in life instead of trying to convince people and waste unnecessary energy.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - GoldHawkStar - 01-17-2016 11:48 AM

I made a friend during my freshman year of college. He lived on my floor and was also a freshman. Ironically, I tried to keep my distance from him given the person that he was. This was before the red pill came into my life, but I knew that him being a close friend was probably bad for my own well-being in the long run. He was a tall, fat ginger who was rude to nearly everyone. He uncontrollably swore in inappropriate situations. The whole 'heavy metal' scene was his thing, so every shirt he wore was a band shirt. He was undeniably a leftist. And he didn't take his classes seriously, skipping half of them and failing some of them.

Overall, it didn't take much to realize he was a toxic person whom I should try to avoid.

Freshman year passed, and the following summer we had a bit of a falling-out. We stopped hanging out. I think he was sorry, but I viewed it as a good thing. This is when the red pill became relevant in my life, but even besides the fact, I had always known that this is a guy that will only drag me down. Without being angry, I was sincerely happy I had nothing to do with him anymore.

First semester of sophomore year passed without a word from him. Then in the second semester I have a class with him. We gradually catch up, and he tells me that this past semester has been a game-changer for him. He has little friends from his past, and he now is trying to take his classes seriously.

It's also during this semester that I realize he legitimately has potential, and actually was taking his classes seriously. He got a good grade in this class (Intermediate Macroeconomics - a tough class).

He finds out I'm going to be lifting over the following summer with a friend. He expresses interest, saying he wants to change up his physical body image, and I tell him he's more than welcome to join us. During this summer, I helped and influenced him making many positive life changes. He lifts and uses the elliptical at this gym. He starts eating a lot healthier as per my recommendations; for example, eating eggs and toast in the morning and drinking loose leaf tea like me. He gets a buzzcut like me (he had sloppy gross hair before). He loses the glasses and gets contacts like me. And he starts dressing better like me, buying better clothes and almost completely eliminating the band shirts from his wardrobe.

Overall, I was happy to see that I had such a positive influence over his self-improvement. I truly did care about him and wanted him to do good. Ever since I saw how good he did in that class, I knew that he had potential, and I wanted to help him do good.

But, here's the thing. Towards the end of the summer, I could tell that there was this growing hostility towards me from him. I don't know what it was. I think a lot of it had to do with me breaking up with my girlfriend whom he was friends with, and I honestly think he had/has a thing for her. I think I really planted some kind of negative seed in him when I, when asked by him, told him that I thought she was not attractive and that this is why I was happy I was no longer with her, along with a few other women he named whom I also think he desired, asking me if I thought they were attractive and me saying no or barely. He also probably noticed me being more positive, more confident, and more energized. This is when the red pill came into my life in a stronger way than previously. I think this all made him think of me as overly-cocky, or too bold, or even a douchebag. Probably all three. All I know is that nearing the end of summer, and then this last semester, I really noticed this negative attitude towards me from him. He also said to me over a Facebook group message one day, after I made a completely unrelated joke, that he was "Considering viewing me as more of an acquaintance than a friend." It was very random. Myself and the other guy in the chat (other lifting buddy over the summer) agreed that it was completely unprovoked, but I had decided that that was it for me. So I shrugged it off and said "Okay. You do you, man."

So since then, that's been it for me with him as far as being friends and hanging out outside of class goes. Last semester we had a class with each other, and this semester we actually have three. I talk to him during class, obviously. It's nice to have people that you know in class with you. It helps you do better. But that's it. Late last semester and early this semester he's actually asked me a couple times if I wanted to get something to eat after class, but every time I've shrugged it off or given a (legitimate) excuse. I'm just kinda done.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that I know where you're coming from, OP. I've been there. It sucks to put a lot of work into helping a friend, only for it to be shoved back into your face and halted when you're halfway through. It's weird because it's at this halfway point right now. I helped him get a better diet, cut his hair short, lose the glasses, and dress better. But after the summer ended, he hasn't been to a gym since. So he's still fat and he's going to stay that way. He's also given me hints this last semester that he's back to eating less healthy compared to the summer. (Telling me he orders pizzas a lot, for starters.) I think his grades will do good in the future, but we'll see. It's also worth mentioning that he's a hardcore Bernie supporter, still having leftist and blue pill ideals. I tried giving him some lead-in red pill ideals over the summer. He was good with some of them and rejected others, so I figured that could come later. But later won't come. He also lives by himself and has few friends, and from what he tells me, his motivation is low. He actually texted me at the end of this last semester with what started to be a conversation about the class we were in but ended in him expressing his own frustration with himself over not going to the gym since summer and saying that he was interested in lifting with me again. I think he wanted me to reach out and encourage him to hit the gym with me, just like old times over the summer, but I didn't. I just told him that it was completely up to him. He never did.

Tl;dr Focus most, if not all of your self-improvement attention on yourself. In my opinion, from what I've learned, get to where you want to be in life first while moderately helping those who reach out to you in the process but not in a way that hinders your own progress. When you're on the road going where you want to be, others should take a backseat to your own roadmap. Once you get to where you finally want to be for the most part (as there is always room for more improvement), then you can focus a little more attention on helping your friends who reach out or seem like they need help. But never expect people to completely follow through with their improvement. This can lead to disappointment. Fuel all your disappointment and pride towards yourself, depending on how you're doing.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Barron - 01-17-2016 12:04 PM

(01-17-2016 10:32 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  Now, the question, is it better to spend all this energy to keep bettering myself – to do things I never thought possible before, or to keep trying to save people I care about who do not really want to be saved?

Charity can only ever be voluntary.
No man has an obligation to help others, that is self-sacrifice (altruism) and highly immoral.

However, if you advance by helping others then the exchange is virtuous. But only highly developed men have achieved this, Donald Trump (job creation) for example, scientists who cure diseases, inventors. Their secret? They put themselves, their happiness and their vision before everything else.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Cobra - 01-17-2016 12:23 PM

Improve yourself first or it won't make sense to anyone else. Deaf ears.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - thoughtgypsy - 01-17-2016 12:33 PM

I view making sacrifices for others as something that's naive only if you continue to do it when it's not reciprocated. I will go out of my way to do a nice gesture or help someone out when they request it, but if it's taken for granted, they are cut off. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. But you're not going to find a close friend if you never take the risk. You never know what kind of person you're dealing with at first, so I give everyone one chance.

When it comes to self improvement and red pill, it's not something you can force on people, in my experience. They have to want it first. It's OK to broach it and see how receptive they are, but if they're not, they aren't ready. When they are, they'll know where to turn.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - SirTimothy - 01-17-2016 01:07 PM

There are a lot of red pills in life; they're all simple but they're also all hard to accept. One of them is that you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

Some people will probably never accept the truth, never even come close, because they don't want to. You can't waste your energy on these people at all. But if someone is a good friend or family member who might listen, you can try to tactfully nudge them in the right direction. Whether they're open to this sort of thing or not is something you'll have to judge for yourself. If they don't accept it at first (or at all) don't take it too personally. Don't stay around toxic people, but don't necessarily burn every bridge either.

Otherwise just try to build good relationships with like-minded men, focus on improving yourself, count your blessings, and don't sweat the rest.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Tactician - 01-17-2016 04:12 PM

Related to the above and to Goldhawkstar's post:

Quote:You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
- Mathew 7:5

It's best when you improve yourself first and then let people come to you. This means they are at least showing some signs of wanting advice and taking the responsibility of helping themselves.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Irenicus - 01-17-2016 04:16 PM

Thank you folks for your responses, they are much appreciated.

First of all, I am not some kind of a polar opposite to a SJW “warrior” - that is, I am not going to help some blue pilled man on the street and give him advice for the sake of our ideology.

I am not THAT nice, and I want a compensation for my time.

Speaking of comparison (which is indeed a valid point) between me and them (that is, the men close of me) I am miles ahead of them, I believe - I am much better built (compared to them – thank you gym!), and I have accomplished more than them. I am not bragging, just stating the facts, my friends.

I am doing this because I want to keep our connections intact and in good spirits. Altruism has nothing to do with it. Why?

I have a good friend of mine. A great, Red Pill dude, aged 36 He owns a business and is built like a tank, because he goes to the gym several times a week, and he is consistent. And he is a little bit...lonely. Why? Because most of his friends cannot relate to him anymore – they are overweight (like your average 36 dude), doing jobs that they hate but cannot leave and trapped in marriages in which their wives turned into female Hutts. Probably they hate him because he is something that they are never going to be.

He is basically probably like Roosh nowadays. He wants to retire from chasing pussy and pursue a LTR. When he began dating a 21 year old...oh my God... . His “loved” ones called him a pedophile. A. Fucking. Pedophile. Almost everyone suggested that he should find some single mother (!!!!) to settle down with. Or a single lady of his age (read: cat lady). I can proudly say that I am probably the only one that I stood by his side and gave him congratulations. And explained him the concept of SMV Smile

One one hand, I want to be like him, a well built playboy, but on the other hand...I really would not like to see friends and family turning against me.

Now, the main reason why I have opened this topic is that I want to help my best friend (also some other friends and family if possible - but he is my main focus), with whom I have been through heaven and hell. He is suffering from mild depression and he asked me what he needs to be done. He did help me before, and does it whenever I ask.

So, he is quite tall (2 meters) and thin, and in a relationship with a girl who is 4-5 years younger than him, but she already started her gradual transformation into a Hutt. I have tried to tell him that he really needs to start lifting (he always finds some stupid excuse not to though) and to tell her that she is going to get fired Trump style unless she loses weight. He does not want to listen to reason (but I love her...) ...not yet anyway. And I am losing patience with him quickly. Again, that is the main reason I asked. I do not want him to turn against me – and seeing from the experience of my gym buddy – there is a chance he will unless he is not saved. God fucking damn it, he is 26, he has a whole life ripe for the taking. But still, I am aware that we are at war at the moment, and that there will be casualities. And I can live with that, So, please, do not be shy! I am not your usual millennial.

TLDR – should I keep trying to save this whigger I care about, or accept the inevitable and gradually grow distant, and try to find people with red pill mindsets, or those that can be converted to it? I do not care THAT much about others – they are just a bonus.



I am sorry for not being precise enough in the beginning. I just wanted to hear the general opinion, without going into details.

Keep it coming folks. Hasta la victoria.

P. S And speaking for the Meetup groups, I do not know how much this application is popular in my area, but it sounds promising. I will give it a shot.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Tactician - 01-17-2016 05:21 PM

Quote:One one hand, I want to be like him, a well built playboy, but on the other hand...I really would not like to see friends and family turning against me.

Hey, I'm no expert, but if you're concerned about this, you have to wonder if your friends and family were really with you in the first place. It's not my place to say your entire life's relationships were built on lies, but often, very often, people have a "crabs in a bucket" mentality whereby their ego is attached not to their own victories and ascension in life, but to making sure no one around them succeeds enough to make them reflect on their own short-comings.

Secondly, while there is something to be said for being humble, if I had to constantly restrain my ambitions so as to not threaten my group of friends, I have to ask, "how well do they really know me?" It seems that if I had to constantly not be myself around them, that I would be selling them a lie.

-
As to your friend, if you want to introduce him to red pill concepts, I gotta say the best place to start is with sexual market value. It's lighthearted and uncontroversial topic and every guy can understand the ten point scale for rating people. You can then branch out into a lot of topics, such as how people of similar SMV's tend to pair up, or how the girls back in high school all tend to like just a hand full of boys (hypergamy), whereas if you asked guys who they like you'd get a bunch of different answers. Just stuff he can relate to.

Eventually, every guy will ask, "how can I raise my SMV," and that's when you've got a real shot at giving him simple and applicable advice.

Oh, and lastly, you said your friend keeps making excuses not to lift, but lifting and exercise is the number one cure for depression. There is a chance he might not feel comfortable in a gym because he's self-conscious or thinks it's too serious or he's not strong enough or whatever. If you can get him alone with you in a garage or backyard or some place private, just start doing push ups with him. That way he can get the benefits of exercise even if he isn't committed enough to go to the gym yet.

One and a half years ago, my best friend was in horrible shape and overweight and his only girlfriend had just dumped him. He was a pretty red pill dude and open to those ideas, but just never exercised or set foot in a gym and constantly made excuses not to exercise.

Him and I started hanging out and sometimes we would do a few push ups in his garage. Nothing serious, just lighthearted. At first, he could only do like three and couldn't do even one diamond push up, but slowly we started to do more and more and eventually took these rice bags that were lying around and would pile them on our backs and with one guy balancing the rice bags while the other guy did a push up. Over the course of about seven months, my buddy went from barely being able to do a few push ups, to losing over 40 lbs and being able to do a push up with 100 lbs of rice on his back. We also added pull ups and other things into our routine.

It's been almost a year since we last worked out together in his garage, but now the son of a bitch goes to the gym every second day, absolutely loves it, and can lift much more than me Angry (for now...). He's completely turned his life around, has much more confidence, and the times lifting rice bags in his garage are some of our fondest memories.

The book The Power of Habit talks about the importance of keystone habits, which are habits that can positively affect all areas of a person's life. As everyone at RVF can attest to, lifting is amazing for providing an impetus to get working on everything else in a person's life.

Come to think about it, when my buddy reluctantly started doing those push ups, it was because we were talking about SMV.

Anyway, I hope you find one or two things in this post useful and I hope your friend will start lifting. Best of luck!


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - thoughtgypsy - 01-17-2016 05:48 PM

Agree with Tactician about true friends and family. If they resent your happiness out of jealousy, I don't care if they're your family, those people will only hold you back in life. Even something as innocuous as a patronizing or passive aggressive remark is a sign that they hold animosity towards you. I've went through some dark moments in my life, and like clockwork, the ones who've shown resentment in the past only tried to cut me down further, while the ones who've encouraged me were there to help pick me up.

I would encourage you to consider that a close friend doesn't need to have the same views of you on the red pill. It definitely makes it easier to relate and encourage improvements with each other, though if I made it a hard rule I'd lose out on a lot of rewarding friendships. My standards for friends are people who can 1) Show mutual respect for each other and 2) Be there to help out when the other needs it. That's it. Though it's a simple standard, it can be hard to come across people who can live up to it these days. But sometimes people you'd never expect to get along with on paper can do it.

Also might be easier to broach the concepts you want to bring up if you leave out pick up jargon and talk about them in a general layman sense. A lot of how people perceive what we say is how it's marketed.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Brodiaga - 01-17-2016 06:28 PM

(01-17-2016 04:16 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  I have a good friend of mine. A great, Red Pill dude, aged 36 He owns a business and is built like a tank, because he goes to the gym several times a week, and he is consistent. And he is a little bit...lonely. Why? Because most of his friends cannot relate to him anymore – they are overweight (like your average 36 dude), doing jobs that they hate but cannot leave and trapped in marriages in which their wives turned into female Hutts. Probably they hate him because he is something that they are never going to be.

He is basically probably like Roosh nowadays. He wants to retire from chasing pussy and pursue a LTR. When he began dating a 21 year old...oh my God... . His “loved” ones called him a pedophile. A. Fucking. Pedophile. Almost everyone suggested that he should find some single mother (!!!!) to settle down with. Or a single lady of his age (read: cat lady). I can proudly say that I am probably the only one that I stood by his side and gave him congratulations. And explained him the concept of SMV Smile

If somebody ever called me that, i would tell him to fuck off and die and never talk to him again. Don't care if it's my father, brother or the closest friend.

Luckily, my none of my friends or family would ever say such a thing.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Vaun - 01-17-2016 06:39 PM

OP, there is nothing wrong with being selfish. That is a lie we are told in a collectivist society in order to get you to contribute money and resources, and of course pay more taxes. You will actually better society by taking care of yourself first. You can decide who to help, but do it out of choice, not undeserved obligation.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - thoughtgypsy - 01-17-2016 06:41 PM

Also,

[Image: bulls.jpeg?w=500&h=503]

From:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/the-difference-between-men-and-women-in-two-charts/

The jealous will always resort to shaming rather than trying to compete.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Paracelsus - 01-17-2016 08:06 PM

(01-17-2016 04:16 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  One one hand, I want to be like him, a well built playboy, but on the other hand...I really would not like to see friends and family turning against me.

Now, the main reason why I have opened this topic is that I want to help my best friend (also some other friends and family if possible - but he is my main focus), with whom I have been through heaven and hell. He is suffering from mild depression and he asked me what he needs to be done. He did help me before, and does it whenever I ask.

So, he is quite tall (2 meters) and thin, and in a relationship with a girl who is 4-5 years younger than him, but she already started her gradual transformation into a Hutt. I have tried to tell him that he really needs to start lifting (he always finds some stupid excuse not to though) and to tell her that she is going to get fired Trump style unless she loses weight. He does not want to listen to reason (but I love her...) ...not yet anyway. And I am losing patience with him quickly. Again, that is the main reason I asked. I do not want him to turn against me – and seeing from the experience of my gym buddy – there is a chance he will unless he is not saved. God fucking damn it, he is 26, he has a whole life ripe for the taking. But still, I am aware that we are at war at the moment, and that there will be casualities. And I can live with that, So, please, do not be shy! I am not your usual millennial.

First: remember the concept of Captain Save-A-Hoe?

Men can be hoes as well. We don't save them either.

The thing about the Red Pill is that you can't preach it to someone as such and expect them to be persuaded by it then and there. It only starts to take root when the person has been pissed on enough and realises they've been pissed on enough to make the choice for themselves.

There's a quote from The Mask of Zorro, which I like: "When the student is ready, the master will appear." Be the master and stop being the preacher. It's not your job to save other men. Unlike women, men save themselves and they only do it by their own sweat and with someone to point the road out to them. This is the Campbellian myth and the archetype of the Guide: Obi-Wan Kenobi chases off the sandpeople and gives Luke some brief healing, but he does not perform Luke's training for him; he points him in the right direction and then waits for Luke to take the first step.

The only other thing you can do is remember this:

[Image: MOS_MPC_VFX_02.jpg]

You will give other men an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you (because they'll recognise deep down the masculinity you represent). They will stumble (because the path to salvation is not easy). They will fall (because men are primed to want the pussy).

But in time, they will join you in the sun.

In time, you will help them accomplish wonders.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Khan - 01-18-2016 12:33 PM

(01-17-2016 04:16 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  One one hand, I want to be like him, a well built playboy, but on the other hand...I really would not like to see friends and family turning against me.

Unfortunately, this is something you cannot avoid.

When a man starts his red pill journey of self-improvement, he is bound to encounter jealousy from others. The reasoning for this is simple - the majority of people are sheep, who blindly follow norms established by the elites that run our society. If you take steps to improve your life as a man, you'll eventually cause discomfort among others because your presence will always remind them of their pitiful existence. They'll behave like crabs in the bucket, always trying to shame you into submission. Men will do it because they are jealous; as for women I'm not sure, but I suspect they will do it because they don't want you to influence their slaves...em, husbands, into waking up and removing their shackles.

Your friend is a great example of this. From what you've described, he is better off than 99% of men in his age bracket. The majority of people won't look up to him as a role model, instead they'll continue hating him because it's much easier to hate than to take steps to improve oneself.

Apparently it's very lonely at the top.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Onto - 01-18-2016 02:36 PM

(01-17-2016 04:16 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  So, he is quite tall (2 meters) and thin, and in a relationship with a girl who is 4-5 years younger than him, but she already started her gradual transformation into a Hutt. I have tried to tell him that he really needs to start lifting (he always finds some stupid excuse not to though) and to tell her that she is going to get fired Trump style unless she loses weight. He does not want to listen to reason (but I love her...) ...not yet anyway. And I am losing patience with him quickly. Again, that is the main reason I asked. I do not want him to turn against me – and seeing from the experience of my gym buddy – there is a chance he will unless he is not saved. God fucking damn it, he is 26, he has a whole life ripe for the taking. But still, I am aware that we are at war at the moment, and that there will be casualities. And I can live with that, So, please, do not be shy! I am not your usual millennial.

TLDR –should I keep trying to save this whigger I care about, or accept the inevitable and gradually grow distant, and try to find people with red pill mindsets, or those that can be converted to it? I do not care THAT much about others – they are just a bonus.

If he doesn't have a problem with his life, or with his girlfriend, why do you?

Who knows if they will have a good, fulfilling life together or not? Fat or skinny.

I understand you've recently become aware of some things. When this happens, the natural reaction is to go out and share it with/convert all the others. Believe me, it's a useless effort and the real impetus for doing it is just to confirm your new revelation by getting others to see and agree with it also. If you do that, you feel more confident in what you think you know is indeed true.

The best thing you can do for your friend is to be the kind of friend to him he feels comfortable sharing questions with. And if that happens, the best thing you can do is ask him appropriate questions about his questions. This gets him to think, instead of giving him an answer. The struggle involved with thinking is what brings about real awareness. That a-ha! moment which can change the course of one's ship.

The best thing you can do to help your fellow man is concentrate on being the best man you can be. Concentrate on learning as much about yourself and life as possible. At some point you may discover you don't need to find someone to help. They will actually find you.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Cobra - 01-18-2016 03:07 PM

I have a different perspective. If people want to bring disagreements, feel free. I think we are oversimplifying things for the sake of "red pill" theory.

OP, it's not that easy. You don't just categorize people into red pill and blue pill and assume they're walking to their doom just because they don't share your values. Your values are your own and your views regarding the red pill are your own. My views regarding the red pill may be different just as they would be for every man you interact with.

I see this a lot on the forum where guys will categorize other men as soon as they discover the red pill. I did it myself for years. So I know how it works. The truth is that some people, while seemingly blue pill, may have a significant amount of red pill values where they count. On top of that, you can learn something from almost every blue pill man before writing him off as an SJW. True SJWs exist, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that they are everywhere. If they are around you, you'll know quickly. Majority of men share a combination of alpha and beta traits (in the traditional sense of how we use those terms).

I think it's wrong to just label people "beta" or "blue pill" and try to help them because, one, they may not need help and two, they are content and happy with their lives. On top of this, they may actually be able to help you instead even if it's not with bedding lots of women. You're just saying that they "shouldn't" be content based on your own general set of values that you are trying to apply to an entire population of men that have various attributes and values in them. Again, not that simple.

You have to evaluate each man or person exclusively in the context of their values and the atmosphere in which you interact with them. There are a lot of great guys at work I hang out with because they are genuinely good people and I learn lots of behaviors from them that I actually learn from. They are aggressive when it comes to closing a deal and can socially interact better than some "players" that just approach a bunch of girls. For example, when I ask one particular single guy (tall, good looking dude) to make a cold approach, he'd rather have me punch him in the nutsack instead. However, he's extremely witty and can hold his own much better than me even, in a social interaction. True story.

Figure out what your values are and what you want to do as a man. Get comfortable with yourself. Get to the point where you enjoy silences. At that point, you will start realizing what is alpha and "red pill." I myself struggle with this every day. However, the way I deal with this is by asking myself first, "am I doing this to impress someone or follow a norm, or is it something I want as my own man?" I try as much as possible not to follow the norm and follow my own wants and desires. This is difficult for a lot of men but doable with repetition in your thought process.

Don't do it because "red pill" theories tell you to. Be "red pill" because you are doing what you want.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - masoud_akbari - 01-18-2016 04:03 PM

(01-18-2016 03:07 PM)Cobra Wrote:  I have a different perspective. If people want to bring disagreements, feel free. I think we are oversimplifying things for the sake of "red pill" theory.

OP, it's not that easy. You don't just categorize people into red pill and blue pill and assume they're walking to their doom just because they don't share your values. Your values are your own and your views regarding the red pill are your own. My views regarding the red pill may be different just as they would be for every man you interact with.

I see this a lot on the forum where guys will categorize other men as soon as they discover the red pill. I did it myself for years. So I know how it works. The truth is that some people, while seemingly blue pill, may have a significant amount of red pill values where they count. On top of that, you can learn something from almost every blue pill man before writing him off as an SJW. True SJWs exist, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that they are everywhere. If they are around you, you'll know quickly. Majority of men share a combination of alpha and beta traits (in the traditional sense of how we use those terms).

I think it's wrong to just label people "beta" or "blue pill" and try to help them because, one, they may not need help and two, they are content and happy with their lives. On top of this, they may actually be able to help you instead even if it's not with bedding lots of women. You're just saying that they "shouldn't" be content based on your own general set of values that you are trying to apply to an entire population of men that have various attributes and values in them. Again, not that simple.

You have to evaluate each man or person exclusively in the context of their values and the atmosphere in which you interact with them. There are a lot of great guys at work I hang out with because they are genuinely good people and I learn lots of behaviors from them that I actually learn from. They are aggressive when it comes to closing a deal and can socially interact better than some "players" that just approach a bunch of girls. For example, when I ask one particular single guy (tall, good looking dude) to make a cold approach, he'd rather have me punch him in the nutsack instead. However, he's extremely witty and can hold his own much better than me even, in a social interaction. True story.

Figure out what your values are and what you want to do as a man. Get comfortable with yourself. Get to the point where you enjoy silences. At that point, you will start realizing what is alpha and "red pill." I myself struggle with this every day. However, the way I deal with this is by asking myself first, "am I doing this to impress someone or follow a norm, or is it something I want as my own man?" I try as much as possible not to follow the norm and follow my own wants and desires. This is difficult for a lot of men but doable with repetition in your thought process.

Don't do it because "red pill" theories tell you to. Be "red pill" because you are doing what you want.


Thats what I thought red pill was (apart from banging lots of hot women). Saying "fuck you" to our judgemental society and doing whatever the fuck makes you happy. Not letting other people bring you down, standing up for yourself at all times


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Irenicus - 01-18-2016 05:57 PM

Again folks, thanks for your input, everything you say will be taken into consideration.

Onto, I can only hope that they will be happy in their relationship. I am not some jealous, fat and unfuckable fart from movies who hates seeing people being happy. But still...when they see me having the freedom to do what I want, to go where I want and to fuck whom I want, will they still be a happy couple? Experience from my BB friend tells me otherwise – their wives LITERALLY banned(!!!) his friends for seeing him, because he is a threat to their tyranny, like Khan said. That is the main reason why I opened this topic in the first place – I do not want my best friend to be pussywhipped to pulp, and I want to save him from that – that is what friends are for.

Unfortunately, I have learned and accepted (thanks Paracelsus) the fact that a lot of men will only take the Red Pill once they get pissed enough. All I can do is to be the best I can be and throw nuggets of our wisdom. Hopefully, one day, he, and anyone else who is willing to partake in my success (getting there!), will come to me, to learn about the wisdom I have gained, and will gain from this forum and from many books that deal with our ideas. Because we men take care of our own, right?

And Cobra, maybe I went a bit too far about asking whether I should ditch the Blue Pill folks. I am not saying that all of them are bad and stupid, but unfortunately, many of them might turn against you, either directly or indirectly, because you do not want to be a sheep like them – my BB dude is a good example. I do not want to be enemies with good, but misguided people. What I plan to start doing is to start throwing nuggets of our wisdom here and there, and hopefully, draw some to our side.

After all, now we are at the turning point in our history, and we need every good man we can get to make our vision a reality.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Razgriz - 01-19-2016 11:25 AM

I had to learn quick that trying to proselyte the red pill to friends soon after taking it myself was a failed venture. Luckily one of them discovered it at the same time I did and neither knew for a few months we went to see Jurassic world and both chuckled at the "where's the alpha part" and to see how the boys gravitated toward Chris Pratt. But I digress.

It has become harder not to try to "save" friends especially seeing them barreling towards marriages with "working" women. These are guys who seemed to want to be fathers to have the wife stay at home and now I see them being cowed by their wives. It was hard to see but I've moved now and maintain enough contact just to be amicable.


RE: Giving up on Fellow Men - Speculation - 01-19-2016 02:01 PM

Honestly I think this is one of the loneliest roads you can take in this life. As others have said most people in this world seem to be sheep.

I can't talk about so many of my beliefs to people as they are often unwilling to talk about non-PC subjects even when delicately approached. I just don't want to associate in the long-term with people who can't handle a discussion on these things because I'd otherwise be confined to meaningless small talk in many cases, or pretending to be blue pill.

But such is life. As QC says, as you get older one of the things that you have to fight harder and harder for is to keep your frame. Date a girl 10 years younger than you and people will start excluding you. Stay unmarried and women might stop their husbands from hanging out with you. Live a happy life and the unhappy will start hating you.

Lonely at the top indeed.