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Nature of Reality - sterling_archer - 10-18-2016 01:38 AM

Since I read RVF for almost two months and in that time got general idea that members here like to read and discuss interesting stuff and some of them even got "spiritual tendencies" I decided to open a new thread on a particular subject. Subject with which I am deeply involved in my research and in the same time in my experiences (although they lag behind, which is normal).

This forum hosts red pilled members. But this red pill is generally associated with realizing position of man in society and true nature of women.
Subject about which I am going to talk is the de facto reddest of red pills. This is Red Pill from Matrix movies.

Note: Stuff I am going to talk about will come in some sort of series, where I will explain things in parts. I encourage people who are interested, to discuss particular parts and when I finish this series, members will get a whole overview of the thing.
Also for this thread I will use references from Western Occult books, my experiences and experiences of people I know. I will not describe actual experiences word for word, because of personal reasons, but so you got general idea of what I am talking about.

I don't plan to write extensive articles, but short ones with as much of interesting information in them.

Lets begin.

PART I - Physical reality (Physical Universe) and "taste" of other realities
This is plane of reality with which we are all familiar. Everything we have ever done, we done it here, on hard matter, on planet called Earth, in the vast black space we call Universe.

From the beginning of the human race, humans suspected that this Earth was not all there is and that something must exists outside that. There were generally two approaches to that question.

People who focused on the sky, over time realized that there is something out there. They become astronomers and developed complicated apparatus to discover new worlds. In their view, physical universe is vast space, full of opportunities for maybe other life, not including our own.

On the other hand, there were those who looked not in the sky, but within themselves and over time they concluded that there is something really out there, that we are in fact beings with multi dimensional nature. Those people used various apparatus themselves.
When they started to look, some time in the stone age, they used psychedelic mushroom which they ate and had their first visions of other realities. They were first shamans. This was and still is preferred way of all tribal communities over the world, from East to West.
Over time, people discovered other means. They could get into the trance state, so called meditative state (note: meditation is supposed to be state, not verb). These methods are most popular in East and East developed it on the most impressive level there is.
Others discovered they could simply go to sleep and dream. They could control what they dream and explore the dreams to view other realities. This approach is the Middle American. Officially started by Mayan and possibly Aztec sorcerers (although they say they were not the first) and over time was developed into what we now call Nagualism, or sorceric dreaming. A method which yours truly uses.

When the age of science came to be, these methods started to be more and more forgotten, but fortunately they never completely disappeared. Science established (note this word) de facto official view of reality. Everything that was not measurable with scientific instruments was deemed fake, pseudo, hoax. Such are other realities in the eyes of science. Those who has phd's have to be very careful not discussing these things with other fellow scientists. You seriously are in danger of losing it. There are brave individuals, such as Rupert Sheldrake, man truly uncorrupted by the establishment in his research. Google him.
In my view, this scientific establishment is actually a form of a weapon used to eradicate "false beliefs" similar to how Catholic Church was used in the medieval times, until it was defeated by new weapon (Science) with the start of absolute monarchies of 18th century.

Only recently science started to dwell into the theory about parallel universes, but in my opinion that is still far from understanding other realities. That is because parallel universes, if they exist (I believe they do) are physical in nature, so that means, if you go to them through some kind of portal, you could measure them. This is still just one view on just one type of reality, a physical one.

For now, I will finish this part I and later, maybe today or tomorrow start part II, where I will begin to talk about this other realities.
In parts III, IV, V and so on, I will talk about each type of reality separately.

RE: Nature of Reality - sterling_archer - 10-19-2016 02:01 AM

PART II - Short overview

This will be a short text in which I will present various planes of reality that exist.

Concept is not new at all. In Hinduism they call all the worlds (types of reality) that exist Maya and only the constant, non changeable, non illusion reality, they call Brahman.
It is very interesting to explain the term Brahman. Brahman is in fact Supreme Reality, a God. A true God, not a desert cult gods like Yahweh or Allah, nor the gods of nature.

Here is short concept:
- Brahman (0)
- Maya (+1)
- Set of Laws called Mahat Tattva's (+2)
- Specific planes of reality (+3)

I simply must use analogy of a computer. You see, we can regard Brahman as hardware. So Brahman is de facto your computer case with motherboard, processor, GPU, etc.

Brahman produced "operating system" (Maya). So Maya was booted and when it turned on, on desktop we had empty "folders".
These empty "folders" are specific set of laws called Mahat Tattvas. These laws are responsible for the creation of some plane of reality.

There are now various "folders" which were created by these laws. But what should we take into consideration that these planes of reality are in fact nested. That means that first Mahat Tattvas created one reality, into it they produced another reality which is lower in "level" then the one before.

Notice that I made word "specific planes of reality" in italic. That is because this is the subject of this thread and what should we be most interested in.

Also notice that there are numbers by each of the concept. The higher the number the more far it is from God, Supreme Reality (Brahman). Notice that specific planes of reality have number 3.
All worlds there, including our own are 3 levels behind Brahman.

Planes of reality that were created have following names. I sorted them out from the most subtle to the most coarsest:

- Causal Plane
- Mental Plane
- Astral Plane
- Etheric Layer
- Physical Plane

That's it for Part II. Feel free to discuss.

RE: Nature of Reality - Truth Tiger - 11-13-2016 10:23 PM

Beware of the bondage in seeking altered states...

From experience and training, I am very leery of attempting to gain knowledge through dream states / 'sorcery'. To be in that realm is something that ancient peoples trained their whole lives for. Is that practice part of your heritage, are you descended from a lineage of shamans or being guided by a respected shaman? And if you are, does he know you are engaging in a discussion on a semi-public forum? This all makes me wonder what's going on and why...

I don't mean to dismiss or downplay what your practice means to you, but I do feel a caution from both intuition and experience rising inside me as I read what you're sharing. It is probably why no one has responded so far as there are many members here who have engaged in spiritual practice. I felt compelled to share what I feel because I sense your earnest interest but also am not sure of your level of preparation for what you're doing - like wanting to surf big waves as a might get lucky, but I wouldn't bet on it...

A shaman awakened to cosmic consciousness at least unity consciousness would have developed some 'armor' when entering dream state for the purpose of divination for protection in those realms. Those subtle layers are not realms to trifle with and anyone who has had an intense spiritual experience (whether through meditation, spontaneously, or via psychedelics / dream states) would very much appreciate this.

You are asking us to discuss 'the nature of reality' when you are personally interested in exploring 'specific states of reality' while physically in the dream state. That seems to me a contradition between your stated intention and your method. To be specific, using 'Inception' terms, you are going into a 'sleeping' dream state one layer down from the nominal 'waking' dream state (what we see as ordinary, everyday reality). From what you are writing I cannot determine if you have truly a knowing of unity consciousness or have had some deep experiences which have caused you to become curious about this subject. Simply taking the red pill on how the physical world works regarding men/women/politics does not constitute awakening from the dream of separateness that spiritual traditions discuss. To be curious about a subject that's been regarded with great respect for millenia does not make one qualified for investigating it without potential bringing oneself into harm. To proceed without a guide (which you haven't indicated you have) is the biggest red flag of all.

I have had various spiritual teachers / guides caution against engaging in a 'lucid dream' type approach as there is a strong tendency for a 'spiritualized ego' to grab hold of the reigns for control, under the guise that 'this new practice will bring you to a deeper state of enlightenment!' Could be very dangerous for you and anyone who would associate with you in this regard. The more removed any technique is from from this waking state of consciousness - the more you have to be 'altered' to gain wisomd - the less valuable it's likely to be. Perhaps you need this for where you are, but can you honestly ask yourself if you can let go of this method if it's not longer really serving your true awakening? Or are you too comfortable with it, like a baby with a bottle it doesn't want to have taken away?

Awakening is happening here and now, all around you, through you. No special states are required to see your True Nature for what it is except to stop holding fast to ideas about it.

Why not apply your energy and concentration toward awakening fully from the waking state to a higher (lower number in your parlance) state and seeing the view from there? It is not about higher or lower, but about letting go of ideas and concept into more. A 5 or 7 or 10 day silent retreat (as many times as feels needed) would be a more direct path to come directly into touch with 'The Nature of Reality.' The mind does not like sitting in silence and being encouraged to not hold on to any thought of concept. The mind does not like it, but our True Nature loves it - and that is one way to discern Truth from falsehood (or distraction). The mind loves to entertain itself with ideas, but we are NOT the mind or its ideas and concepts. We ARE the Brahman, but Maya does loves to do her dance and help us pretend we are little human beings, or human beings having a spiritual experience, or human beings visiting some other dimension for a time (or getting lost there and going mad). The variations are infinite but it's all Brahman at play itself.

Having a very curious mind I was distracted in different directions until providence drew me to a very clear, very funny, very wise teacher who had been even more passionately seeking the Nature of Reality. His name is Adyashanti and there are many videos of Adyashanti on Youtube. This is an excellent start:

What do you really want?

[url=]I highly recommend meditating upon his essay 'True Meditation' as a continual reinforcement of the clearest expression of Truth I have found in words.

(from the beginning of the essay)
Quote:True meditation has no direction or goal. It is pure wordless surrender, pure silent prayer. All methods aiming at achieving a certain state of mind are limited, impermanent, and conditioned. Fascination with states leads only to bondage and dependency. True meditation is abidance as primordial awareness.

In my experience, having traveled in this circle for a time, the world does not need more shamans and sorcerers, nor priestesses or gods and goddesses. Revealing the truth about reality is about stripping layers away not going deeper into the dream state - but I also know from my experience that we all have to follow the path that we must. However sometimes we can end up going in circles without knowing it. If you're feeling a bit uncomfortable with what I'm sharing, you're welcome my brother! Smile I have received similar pointers as I'm offering to you - I have been there, done that and am happy I was encouraged to move out of that seductively stagnant pond into the refreshingly vibrant stream.

Namaste my brother...

RE: Nature of Reality - Truth Tiger - 11-13-2016 11:31 PM

Corrected link in the last post:

Adyashanti's essay 'True Meditation'

RE: Nature of Reality - sterling_archer - 11-14-2016 03:39 AM

Finally someone makes reply here. I think reason no one replied has to do more with a fact that people were probably discouraged by large amount of text then the fact if they have something to contribute and are afraid of sharing their experiences. I call all of those who know what I am talking about to come to discuss things in theory.

To clarify and to answer to your questions:

My experiences are all regarding lower astral worlds, experienced through lucid dreaming and using techniques described by Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan. Specifically I am member of one nagualist forum where very experienced individuals discuss these techniques and their experiences.
I am beginner and just recently crossed what they call Second Gate, where I got into the world of the Inorganic Beings. This happened few times and not more because I am still struggling with attaining lucidity.

I tried various techniques to match my theoretical knowledge and this Sorceric Dreaming is the most interesting one and the one with what I had most success.

There are no real danger here in your own astral bubble or in inorganic being worlds if they are friendly, but there is danger when crossing other Gates. I am still far away from that experience and this whole thing is like bodybuilding, I realize I cannot lift heavy weights yet.

This whole thread I opened is purely for analytical discussion. Others are free to describe their experiences if they want, but its not needed. I wanted to see what is the interest of people here in this stuff.
My "knowledge" about realities higher then physical is mostly from good literature, where I came across experienced individuals who pointed me in right direction.

This thread was also supposed to be in more parts but I felt discouraged after lack of interest and I doubt I will continue to write more parts.

RE: Nature of Reality - Truth Tiger - 11-14-2016 02:12 PM

I asked you questions which you did not answer. Your right to not do so, but it indicates something. Again,

What do you really want?

Do you want to awaken to reality? or are you just curious about playing in these fantasy realms tard you are exploring via what you read?

If you're spending more time on forums than improving your life in the real-world, you are not a red-pill man. Buddha, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Christ, pick an awakened master, did not 'discuss things in theory' as a diversion. They were about the PRACTICAL means to alleviate human suffering. That means to strip away illusion in every possible form and the inner delusions are the more subtle and difficult to detect. You can do whatever you wish, but I had to raise this caution flag that it feels you are coming here under a cloak of wanting to engage with 'like-minded red-pill men' while it seems clear to me now you are just wanting to hear yourself talk about ideas you're fascinated with 'in theory', while in a 'dream state' when you're a 'beginner still struggling to attain lucidity.'

Hmmm.. I wonder why you're struggling? Perhaps because whether you attain lucidity in a dream state or not DOESN'T means a FUCKING thing for the waking state of consciousness. Fuck Carlos Casteneda. Fuck Don Juan (who was admittedly imaginary anyway). Fuck anyone and anything who is pulling you and your attention AWAY from right here, right now.




You're acting like the blue-pill bun-wearing hippie boys I've seen in my time in spiritual communities, wearing patchouli and burning sage because someone told them its what spiritual people do. Dodgy This is harsh, but I've seen that bullshit too long and too close to not call it out. You're better than this but only if you take the RED PILL I am offering you right now to shake you out of that comfort zone you've fallen into of fascination with states and planes and books that have no real bearing on YOUR LIFE.

Quote:I call all of those who know what I am talking about to come to discuss things in theory.

They won't, my brother, because they instinctively know that is not the real purpose of spirituality. It's meant to be imminently practical, how to live life as a part of THIS world, not floating in altered states of consciousness. But you're happily Fapping away in never-never land.

Quote:Specifically I am member of one blah blah where very self-deluded individuals discuss these distraction and their masturbatory experiences.

Do they even lift, bro?

So as I guessed, you do not even have a physical guide assisting you, or better yet cautioning you as I am to NOT do this shit if you really want to wake up to reality. You're like Cipher wanting to plug himself back in the matrix because he misses juicy prime rib so he falls asleep to eat it. Really, WTF?

Quote:I am beginner and just recently crossed into beginner never never land ... This happened few times and not more because I am still struggling with attaining lucidity.

Perhaps your true Higher Self is resisting 'attaining lucidity' out of a sense of healthy self-preservation? It doesn't want to tamper in realms and dimensions that you as a Westerner and a beginner, are ill-equipped and ill-advised to pursue?

Quote:I tried various techniques to match my theoretical knowledge and this blah blah blah is the most interesting one and the one with what I had most success distracting myself with.

Aha! So there it is. You are coming at this from a theoretical perspective and because you find it 'most interesting'. That's very clearly a mind playing with itself, distracting itself. That's the spiritual hamster my friend.

[Image: IZPPX.gif]

I know that hamster all too well which is why I'm pointing out your words but cleaned up to honestly reflect upon. Please don't feed your spiritual hamster!

Quote:There are no real danger here in your own astral bubble or in inorganic being worlds if they are friendly, but there is danger when blah blah

BULLSHIT. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're messing with things you don't understand. How the hell can you as a 'beginner' say 'there are no real danger here'? And you say yourself 'if they are friendly.' What if they're not, what then? Are you in any way PREPARED to deal with unfriendly whatever beings you're imagining or told you might encounter? Do you walk into a bear cave just because 'hoping it's friendly'? Not if you're sane.

Quote:I am still far away from that experience

BINGO! That 'experience.' A truth any authentic teacher will tell you is that reality is NOT an experience. So by seeking experiences by your own admission you are NOT seeking 'the true nature of reality.' Can you see yourself you are admitting you're distracting yourself? You can fool yourself, but not me, not us.

Quote:...and this whole thing is like bodybuilding, I realize I cannot lift heavy weights yet.

BULLSHIT again. 'It's like body-building' - terrible analogy between a practical that can give proven results and one that is totally non-tangible and especially dangerous to mental health. But let's play along - so you want to body-build without a coach, guess what happens? YOU HURT YOURSELF. Doesn't everyone who knows suggest 'get a trainer it's worth it.' So that's the only true part about what you said.

The crap you're spouting is really self-deluded and dangerous - the more you write the clearer that becomes to me. You're very lost, brother, and I hope you can make it back home to your self.

Quote:This whole thread I opened is purely for analytical discussion... so I can fap all over myself when I read it...

[Image: southpark-cum.jpg]

Yuck, I need a shower.

Quote:Others are free to describe their experiences if they want, but its not needed. I wanted to see what is the interest of people here in this stuff.

My "knowledge" about realities higher then physical is mostly from fictitious literature, where I came across other fapperswho pointed me back toward my navel.

No one wants to describe this because it is not applied spirituality (my area of interest) but typical New Age distraction fake spirituality.

And who says they are pointing you in the right direction? They're doing what you're doing, getting off on delusion and distraction.


What would happen if you stop visiting all those sites for a week, including this one, and simply READ and follow the meditation guidelines of this essay twice a day? It was written by a bona fide awakened teacher who I am many many others have spent time listening to. Would you be able to leave that stuff alone, or would you crave it like a heroin junkie, getting the shakes and needing another fix? It takes a former addict to recognize a current addict and brother, you've got it bad.

If you choose, and if you can feel the love behind these hard words, you can free yourself of bondage to those states you're craving. You can watch many insightful satsangs / 'dharma talks' on Youtube of this teacher Adyashanti. There are others who are very awake and wise, but Adyashanti is the easiest to relate to. He is constantly pointing you to your True Nature, the true nature of reality - not by going into dream states, but by paying attention to WHAT IS AWAKE in all states. What is it that's observing you when you're struggling to attain lucidity, or reading these words, or thinking about dinner. What you REALLY ARE is not a state but it also can't be named. The less you do to distract yourself from exploring the question

'What am I?'

the more likely you will actually be touched by Grace and granted a big a-ha realization. Even that realization and that experience needs to be let go of (everyone loves to talk about their spiritual experiences, but it really doesn't matter in the end). Body-building is as much about lifting weights as resting and eating well. It's knowing what NOT to do along with what TO DO and listening to the advice of those who have been there, done that to save yourself pain and wasted time. You don't get big in the gym, you get big at the dinner table and when you're resting and recharging. Do less, not more.

If you are not even the least bit curious about what I am sharing, having been in some manner where you are now, then I say you are actually undermining yourself - or your actual goal is not to know the true nature of reality but to distract yourself with speculations, theoretical discussions, and dubious 'lucid dreaming' practices that will keep you asleep - or worse - for the rest of this lifetime.

If you truly want to be a RED red pill man, then consider these questions:

-What does all you're doing in dream land have to do with spiritual awakening?

-Can you see that dependence upon ANYTHING outside yourself is bondage?

-Can you sense within yourself that perhaps you're being pulled or pushed by forces you don't understand to engage in activities which might be the spiritual equivalent of jumping out of a plane without a parachute?

I won't post again in this thread. I've given you enough of my time and experience to meditate upon, if you're willing. So far I've been the only person interested in or willing to engage with you on this topic and I'm calling out your self-delusionary spiritual masturbation.

Keep this in mind: if and how you reply is more important for YOU to reflect upon than for me or anyone else to read.

RE: Nature of Reality - sterling_archer - 11-14-2016 03:58 PM

PM sent

RE: Nature of Reality - Truth Tiger - 11-14-2016 05:20 PM

Good stuff. Reply sent.