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Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - No More Mr. Soy Boy - 12-14-2018 12:31 PM

Is this a slave law or are they spoiled? What do you guys think?

Hungary voted for a new rule on Wednesday which gives employers right to 400 h (instead of 250 h) in overtime per year. There have been big protests against this now.

Quote:Hungary's parliament on Wednesday approved amendments to the labor code — changes that trade unions and opponents have criticized as "slave law" benefiting employers.

Opposition members tried to stop the measure's approval by blowing whistles and sirens during most of the voting and blocking access to the parliament speaker's pulpit.

The changes include raising the maximum amount of overtime workers can put in a year from 250 to 400 hours and relaxing other labor rules in a bid to offset Hungary's growing labor shortage.

The legislation also gives employers three years instead of one to settle payments of accrued overtime. Another amendment allows employers to agree on overtime arrangements directly with workers, bypassing collective bargaining agreements and the unions.

Critics say increasing overtime limits to up to 400 hours annually — the equivalent of adding a full day to the work week — is exploitative and a potential health risk for workers, going against the government's stated goal of favoring family life.

The government says more labor flexibility is needed to satisfy investors' needs — like those of the German car companies whose factories help drive Hungary's economic growth — and to allow workers looking to earn more to work longer hours.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/12/12/world/europe/ap-eu-hungary-labor-law.html



RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - The Beast1 - 12-14-2018 12:45 PM

Why is the government dictating how much people can work?

In commiefornia, after I think 12 or 14 hour days they get double time which the trades people love. Yeah it's tough work, but they get a lot so who cares.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - RoastBeefCurtains4Me - 12-14-2018 01:04 PM

Wait, is this saying that workers are prohibited from working more than 400 (previously 250), or is it saying employers can force workers to work up to 400 hours OT?

If it's the latter, that's burdensome, but there are plenty of jobs in the US that have mandatory overtime, not to mention salaried jobs where it's often expected.

If it's the former, then I think allowing only 400 hours is hard on workers. People in the US often work a lot more than 400 hours of OT, to get that sweet, sweet time and a half pay.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Lunostrelki - 12-14-2018 02:06 PM

Europeans in general need to talk less, work harder, and have more kids. I think this is just socialist whining.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Mage - 12-14-2018 05:14 PM

More optional overtime is good - if someone wants to work and earn more - let him have it. It is better then letting in migrants who will work for very low wages, while locals are limited in the amount of time they can work and cannot earn more overtime money if they need or want to. Ban on overtime is taking money from locals and giving it to migrants.

Overtime becomes bad if overtime is mandatory and people are forced to sacrifice health and family - but if you have shortage of workers then you will not fire people for refusing to work more then 8 hours per day, because you still need at least that amount of work done.

I think this law is good and likely is meant to protect native workforce from migrants.

If people want to protect their country from assimilation and overwhelming migration, then these people of that country need to put in the work required to remain independent and self-sufficient.

Ban on legal overtime coupled with open borders for cheaper foreign workforce will only increase amount of unreported income or force local people to work that overtime without compensation to stay competitive.

As always any government intervention in private business ends up harming all sides, it hurts private business, it hurts economy, it hurts country, it hurts employers, it hurts employees and it also hurts those stupid useful idiots that that argue for that government intervention.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - BlackFriar - 12-16-2018 12:37 PM

I have worked over 500 hours of overtime...the last 2 years in a row, at my job. My hair started falling out, from stress this summer. But I changed some of my thinking and made myself want the overtime. To pay for month long vacation trips to Europe.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Handsome Creepy Eel - 12-16-2018 05:10 PM

BlackFriar, not to knock your efforts, but are vacations really a good use of money that you had to sacrifice your health to earn? If you're killing yourself with work, shouldn't it be for something tangible or that allows you to not strain so much in the future?


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - infowarrior1 - 12-16-2018 07:39 PM

(12-16-2018 12:37 PM)BlackFriar Wrote:  I have worked over 500 hours of overtime...the last 2 years in a row, at my job. My hair started falling out, from stress this summer. But I changed some of my thinking and made myself want the overtime. To pay for month long vacation trips to Europe.

Health is necessary to properly enjoy vacations. Sacrificing health is like flushing money down the drain.

I don't recommend your current course.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Gmac - 12-17-2018 12:02 AM

400 O/T is 8 hours a day. If you're capped at 40, that's under 50 hours per week. Most of us salaried folks work way more than that...


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Cattle Rustler - 12-17-2018 01:04 AM

Laugh3

No more than 400 hours? That’s cute.

[Image: sFg18pRl.jpg]


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Praetor Lupus - 12-17-2018 01:27 AM

(12-14-2018 05:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  More optional overtime is good - if someone wants to work and earn more - let him have it. It is better then letting in migrants who will work for very low wages, while locals are limited in the amount of time they can work and cannot earn more overtime money if they need or want to. Ban on overtime is taking money from locals and giving it to migrants.

Overtime becomes bad if overtime is mandatory and people are forced to sacrifice health and family - but if you have shortage of workers then you will not fire people for refusing to work more then 8 hours per day, because you still need at least that amount of work done.

This. There were plenty of times I would gladly have worked overtime to get some extra cash. I had to be forced to take holidays because I would rather work instead (and because if I left, I would get paid the holidays upon leaving, which came in very fucking handy not once but twice).


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Mage - 12-17-2018 03:21 AM

Remember when Roosh gave advice about campaigning? That is the most effective way men work.

I personally am my best working one month overtime ~ 10-12 hours per day, then taking a month off or showing up just for about 4 hours per day.

it is primal and comes from times when men went to long hunting trips or military expeditions, then returned home to rest where women took care for most of the chores. Women are suited for constant regular work, men are suited for intense campaigns and then for extended time of rest.

Employees and employers need to bargain their work hours themselves and government must stay outside it.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Kona - 12-17-2018 05:01 AM

Whiny union bastards.

Own your own shit and that's an extremely slow year. No they gotta keep sucking on the Hungarian teets.

Aloha!


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Lime - 12-17-2018 08:07 AM

The goal of the new law is to make it more attractive for multinationals to produce in Hungary.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - LeBaron - 12-17-2018 11:31 AM

(12-17-2018 08:07 AM)Lime Wrote:  The goal of the new law is to make it more attractive for multinationals to produce in Hungary.

That is what I was thinking aswell instead of bringing low IQ's Aliens they will bring more new businesses thus increasing the economy.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - replicaforit - 12-17-2018 12:20 PM

As a Hungarian twenty-something I'd like to clarify some things:
-there is a massive need for workforce in Hungary, and one possible tools to make the situation better is to enable work overtime
-it is voluntarily thing, so the employer can not force you to work overtime. Though, If you are afraid of losing your job, you will commit anyway.
-No it is not about the migrants. The number of working, stay-here migrants is quite low (speaking about 1-2000 yearly), as they are moving to west due to better social welfare and more english speaking jobs even in uneducated jobs.
-As Lime mentioned before, it is mainly for the multinationals, they needed this law. However, they have outsmarted the system so far, Hungarians tend to work more than the required hours (not speaking about efficiency here).
-The biggest problem with it, that they have the opportunity to pay the overtime after 3 years, so you as an employee have very strong external incentives to stay at the job.

Here is a short summary from the biggest Hungarian News site:
https://index.hu/english/2018/12/12/hungary_parliament_overtime_passed_scandal_chaos_overtime_banking_protest/


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Sp5 - 12-17-2018 05:57 PM

What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - replicaforit - 12-17-2018 06:10 PM

(12-17-2018 05:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?

My uneducated guess here is that the current leading party Fidesz and Prime Minister Orbán got some pocket cash from big multinational co's. They are so corrupt and have so much power in the parliament, that there is no lawful way to dismiss them.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - Orson - 12-21-2018 12:38 AM

(12-17-2018 06:10 PM)replicaforit Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 05:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?

My uneducated guess here is that the current leading party Fidesz and Prime Minister Orbán got some pocket cash from big multinational co's. They are so corrupt and have so much power in the parliament, that there is no lawful way to dismiss them.

This is very odd to me. "Delayed payment" to hourly work is really non-payment.

On the other hand, could there be union-worker to Multinational factory owner contract labor going on that's far outside familiar American employment practices? Is there some collective 'make good' provision to accommodate labor supply flexibility?


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - JackinMelbourne - 12-27-2018 05:25 AM

(12-14-2018 12:45 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Why is the government dictating how much people can work?

In commiefornia, after I think 12 or 14 hour days they get double time which the trades people love. Yeah it's tough work, but they get a lot so who cares.

These trades people are being underpaid in the first place. After 12 hours of solid work in a trade (6-8 even if it's REAL work), you are a walking dead zombie who will die of heart attack if it's kept up long term... not to mention becoming mentally retarded in the meantime to the point that you don't realise that having to work for 12 hours just to reach double bubble is a bad fucking deal.

What's more messed up is the following quote:

Quote:and to allow workers looking to earn more to work longer hours.

It's a sad state of affairs when predatory capitalism (I have nothing against capitalism by the way) devalues a nation's people/money to the point where they need to do over-time to get by.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - RawGod - 12-27-2018 05:37 AM

(12-17-2018 06:10 PM)replicaforit Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 05:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?

My uneducated guess here is that the current leading party Fidesz and Prime Minister Orbán got some pocket cash from big multinational co's. They are so corrupt and have so much power in the parliament, that there is no lawful way to dismiss them.

I keep on hearing vague comments that Orban and Fidesz are corrupt. Any more specifics? Are they giving big government contracts to their buddies, buying coastal palaces in Croatia, or what?


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - JackinMelbourne - 12-27-2018 05:45 AM

(12-14-2018 05:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  If people want to protect their country from assimilation and overwhelming migration, then these people of that country need to put in the work required to remain independent and self-sufficient.

Working for an international corporation with foreign shareholders that limit the worker's pay so they can skim max profit is far from being independent or self sufficient.

Overtime is a cheeky tactic for milking lower income workers... cheeky along the lines of paying them below their true value for normal hours and then getting them to put in more time because they think they're getting double something but that something is already half the value that they're really worth.

Anyway, that aside, the government has no place dictating how little or how much overtime someone wants to do. That's also BS. Some peeps want to get ahead of the pack and they just love being taxed extra for it Tongue


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - replicaforit - 12-27-2018 02:39 PM

(12-21-2018 12:38 AM)Orson Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 06:10 PM)replicaforit Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 05:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?

My uneducated guess here is that the current leading party Fidesz and Prime Minister Orbán got some pocket cash from big multinational co's. They are so corrupt and have so much power in the parliament, that there is no lawful way to dismiss them.

This is very odd to me. "Delayed payment" to hourly work is really non-payment.

On the other hand, could there be union-worker to Multinational factory owner contract labor going on that's far outside familiar American employment practices? Is there some collective 'make good' provision to accommodate labor supply flexibility?

Companies have to pay the overtime after 4 or 6 months in general cases. If you have so called collective (bargaining) agreement (which is mostly applied in jobs, where the seasonality is high, so some weeks you have to work 100 hours, then in the next weeks/months, almost nothing), the timeframe was 1 year and now 3 years.

But the important thing is the collective bargaining agreement is two sided, so without the (weak) union and employee sign, the company cannot force it.

Unfortunately, union is (almost) not a thing in Hungary, the advocacy of the average/general employee or person is non-existent and these average employees who are exploited by big corps, do not know their rights. So probably they will sign anything, because they are afraid of losing their jobs.


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - replicaforit - 12-27-2018 03:03 PM

(12-27-2018 05:37 AM)RawGod Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 06:10 PM)replicaforit Wrote:  
(12-17-2018 05:57 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  What kind of shit is allowing the delay of payment for three years?

My uneducated guess here is that the current leading party Fidesz and Prime Minister Orbán got some pocket cash from big multinational co's. They are so corrupt and have so much power in the parliament, that there is no lawful way to dismiss them.

I keep on hearing vague comments that Orban and Fidesz are corrupt. Any more specifics? Are they giving big government contracts to their buddies, buying coastal palaces in Croatia, or what?

Hungary is (was) one of the biggest beneficiary of the European Union financial support system, as we got much more money from the EU than we paid. Almost half of the GDP growth came from the EU money. Funnily enough, Fidesz's narrative is "Eu is bad, we should leave it, they exploit us and we pay for their migrant problems".

Anyway, just a few well-known example:
  • Interim minister's security company wins all the big contracts for securing governmental events
  • The biggest taxi company is also governmental interest, they banned Uber some years ago because their profits were declining.
  • In the last 3-4-5 years, the government pouring massive amount of money (eyeballing, but billions of euros) into building football stadiums. The subcontractors are always the friends of Fidesz. And they happily reinvest 30-40% of the contract money into the Fidesz, aka corruption.

The list is endless, anything you can read in foreign media leftish media is true, unfortunately.

As a general rule, if a money reach a certain threshold (say, 3-4 million dollars) the government creates a tender where only 1 company (which is in the hand of a good friend) can win.

For example the tender starts in Monday morning, deadline is the same Monday evening and the winner has to have a specific certificate which can be obtained during several weeks, and has to have millions in cash as collateral. It is not possible to win these cases.

But there are several other ways they do their businesses, e.g: making the official government website offline (where the bidding is happening), or simply just buying the biggest competitors company, massively underpriced. If the owner is not willing, the government simply impound his wealth "in the name of felony".


RE: Protests in Hungary against new law which gives employers right to 400 h overtime - replicaforit - 12-27-2018 03:10 PM

(12-27-2018 05:45 AM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  
(12-14-2018 05:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  If people want to protect their country from assimilation and overwhelming migration, then these people of that country need to put in the work required to remain independent and self-sufficient.

Working for an international corporation with foreign shareholders that limit the worker's pay so they can skim max profit is far from being independent or self sufficient.

Overtime is a cheeky tactic for milking lower income workers... cheeky along the lines of paying them below their true value for normal hours and then getting them to put in more time because they think they're getting double something but that something is already half the value that they're really worth.

Anyway, that aside, the government has no place dictating how little or how much overtime someone wants to do. That's also BS. Some peeps want to get ahead of the pack and they just love being taxed extra for it Tongue

On one hand I can agree with you, these big corporations are milking the locals, everywhere. Just check the recent Amazon/New York news.

But on the other hand (especially here, in Hungary) they are the only option (besides being lucky/clever and having an own venture) to become a middle class citizen. The small businesses are taxed as hell, so working for one is not beneficial in terms of money or career aspects. Of course, the work/life balance is better.