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CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Roosh - 06-03-2019 10:31 PM

Silly humans think they can play God...

Quote:About half a year after Chinese scientist He Jiankui first brought gene-edited babies into the world, cooler heads have finally prevailed: scientists pored over hundreds of thousands of medical records to learn how the genes that He altered affect human health.

He's team gene-edited the twin babies - and a third baby due this summer - to knock out a gene called CCR5 in hopes that it would render them immune to HIV.

But according to new research published in the journal Nature Medicine, people with that genome are 21 percent more likely to die before reaching the average life expectancy.

Scientists from UC Berkeley searched a repository of human subjects' DNA to look for the same variants of the CCR5 that He Jiankui gave the children, NPR reports.

They found that the same genome that might grant greater immunity from HIV also makes people vulnerable to dangerous flus and West Nile virus.

"What we found is that they had significantly increased mortality," lead researcher Rasmus Nielsen told NPR. "It's rather substantial. We were quite surprised the effect was this large."


He's experiments have spurred many scientists to recommend against gene-hacking human embryos until we know more.

"This is a lesson in humility," George Daley, dean of Harvard Medical School, told NPR.

"Even when we think we know something about a gene, we can always be surprised and even startled, like in this case, to find out that a gene we thought was protective may actually be a problem."

https://www.sciencealert.com/sadly-the-chinese-crispr-babies-may-be-doomed-to-die-young

"Hurr durr if we just change this one factor in the human genome then everything will work out!" This arrogance will lead to a lot of suffering.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Fortis - 06-03-2019 10:52 PM

^ I don't subscribe the religious view but I do think that there is no biological free lunch. Changes in one place, balance out elsewhere.

Does anyone else not think it's weird that some of the highest IQ populations also seem to have Tay-Sachs, depression, and other weird degenerative illnesses?

The other side of this is, how do these governments think they will control these super high IQ children once they're adults? They'll very easily turn on their nations if they like and take over.

I once got into a bit of an argument with some supposedly high IQ person where I argued that IQ above a certain point doesn't help much. Once you see the game for what it is, you don't want to play it. Once a person gets beyond a certain point I actually think they appear so alien and stupid to normal people that their leadership abilities are curtailed unless they're socialized really well and give a shit about actually dealing with normies.

I think China is going to try to min-max IQ and destroy their population.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - MrLemon - 06-03-2019 11:01 PM

(06-03-2019 10:52 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ I don't subscribe the religious view but I do think that there is no biological free lunch. Changes in one place, balance out elsewhere.

Does anyone else not think it's weird that some of the highest IQ populations also seem to have Tay-Sachs, depression, and other weird degenerative illnesses?

The other side of this is, how do these governments think they will control these super high IQ children once they're adults? They'll very easily turn on their nations if they like and take over.

I once got into a bit of an argument with some supposedly high IQ person where I argued that IQ above a certain point doesn't help much. Once you see the game for what it is, you don't want to play it. Once a person gets beyond a certain point I actually think they appear so alien and stupid to normal people that their leadership abilities are curtailed unless they're socialized really well and give a shit about actually dealing with normies.

I think China is going to try to min-max IQ and destroy their population.

If high IQ was a great survival mechanism, then more people would have super high IQs. The most important quality for success is the ability to sell.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - CynicalContrarian - 06-03-2019 11:06 PM

I'm old enough to remember when basic cloning was the big new thing.
Until all the clones died off early that is...


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Cumlluminates - 06-03-2019 11:10 PM

And the left will probably claim that CRISPR babies are really just clumps of experimental cells, therefore early death is humane and normal. Clown World!


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Days of Broken Arrows - 06-03-2019 11:51 PM

It's pretty ironic that a named He is playing God. Because when you write it in a sentence, it looks like you're referencing God since you capitalize "he" like they do in written prayers (i.e. "the genes the He altered").

The description of playing with genes in this story reminds me of a lesson I learned when I used to play with sound electronics as a teen. You might be able to mess with the resistors or capacitors to get a louder sound...but you also introduce things like distortion and phase cancellation.

In other words, there is no such thing as making one change in a system that's interconnected. Your "one change" ends up having an unexpected domino effect.

You'd think he would have known that, with or without his capital letter.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Leonard D Neubache - 06-04-2019 12:35 AM

China starts making strong moves into Africa.

For no related reason pushes hard to seek genetic HIV immunity.

Laugh4


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Captainstabbin - 06-04-2019 12:48 AM

(06-03-2019 10:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Quote:He's team gene-edited the twin babies - and a third baby due this summer - to knock out a gene called CCR5 in hopes that it would render them immune to HIV.

Or they could just tell people to avoid fornicating with random dudes at gay pride festivals or certain interstate rest stops.



(06-03-2019 11:06 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  I'm old enough to remember when basic cloning was the big new thing.
Until all the clones died off early that is...

Did they? It's interesting that, outside of the novelty of cloning pets, there's very little news about advancements in cloning tech. I was expecting replacement organs by now like that movie where Scarlett Johansson was in her prime.

[Image: kdvaDvA.jpg?1]


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Leonard D Neubache - 06-04-2019 09:09 AM

The hell with the organs. Sell the whole package.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Dr Mantis Toboggan - 06-04-2019 09:24 AM

So let's screw around with Frankengenes to make babies more susceptible to the flu and West Nile (and probably also malaria) and less susceptible to HIV, which is far less of a threat to most people than the other viruses.

Wonderful.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - BlastbeatCasanova - 06-04-2019 09:31 AM

The obsession with HIV is ridiculous, in my city there are tons of PreP and HIV awareness ads all over the place. Why can’t they use CRISPR to remove the gene of some maladaptive condition that affects more people than just homosexuals and IV drug users...? /sarc


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Leonard D Neubache - 06-04-2019 09:39 AM

Abortion is already giving us hilarious questions to vex progressives like "if the baby is a girl can I choose to abort it?"

Gene therapy is on track to let us ask "is it ok to screen out homosexual DNA?"


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - ilostabet - 06-04-2019 09:44 AM

I wonder how many more examples like this the forum will need to start taking Uncle Ted seriously Icon_biggrin

I guess a lot, because it's kind of the same as the civnats or the classical liberals. 'I want equality 1.0... but not the inevitable 3.0 result of it that comes a few decades later'. Oh well.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - BlastbeatCasanova - 06-04-2019 09:46 AM

^they've pretty much already done that in Iceland with Downs Syndrome.

“Geneticist Kari Stefansson is the founder of deCODE Genetics, a company that has studied nearly the entire Icelandic population's genomes. He has a unique perspective on the advancement of medical technology. ‘My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society -- that there is hardly ever a child with Down syndrome in Iceland anymore,’ he said.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/down-syndrome-iceland/


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Atlanta Man - 06-04-2019 11:40 AM

A significant portion of homosexuality in men is ,genetic CRISPR gene editing would not only decrease the number of homosexual men but would also result in a population boom and a virtual eradication of genetic diseases (no more acondroplasia, Hunington's Disease, Lipid Storage disorders, ect). In theory a Sudanese couple could have a blue eyed, blond haired, caucasian child. This Technology is already being used to address "superbugs " that are drug resistant by using altered viruses to attack bacterial infections. The next 20 years of Molecular Genetics is going to be profound to observe......


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Laner - 06-04-2019 12:40 PM

(06-04-2019 09:46 AM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  ^they've pretty much already done that in Iceland with Downs Syndrome.

“Geneticist Kari Stefansson is the founder of deCODE Genetics, a company that has studied nearly the entire Icelandic population's genomes. He has a unique perspective on the advancement of medical technology. ‘My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society -- that there is hardly ever a child with Down syndrome in Iceland anymore,’ he said.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/down-syndrome-iceland/

As teenagers we wondered why we had kids with down syndrome in some of our classes. By grade 11 we had become friends with some of them. By grade 12 they had lockers with us and we took them for joy rides in our muscle cars. They went to prom. They taught us about all sorts of things that only someone with downs could want to learn.

It made us understand that teenagers who should be outcasts brought joy to our lives in simple ways. Especially at a young age when your only concern is often what others thought of you. When I moved to the big, liberal city from my small conservative town, I stopped seeing any people with downs. I wondered why, until I started hearing how abortion was so common. Then it all made sense.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Gimlet - 06-04-2019 12:43 PM

Homosexual men are created, not born. "Born that way" is a lie. Almost all were molested. Some call it molestation, some call it fun with an older guy. But all were indoctrinated into that lifestyle. There is no gene to be found.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Cr33pin - 06-04-2019 12:53 PM

Theybies*


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Abelard Lindsey - 06-04-2019 12:59 PM

(06-03-2019 10:52 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ I don't subscribe the religious view but I do think that there is no biological free lunch. Changes in one place, balance out elsewhere.

Does anyone else not think it's weird that some of the highest IQ populations also seem to have Tay-Sachs, depression, and other weird degenerative illnesses?

The other side of this is, how do these governments think they will control these super high IQ children once they're adults? They'll very easily turn on their nations if they like and take over.

I once got into a bit of an argument with some supposedly high IQ person where I argued that IQ above a certain point doesn't help much. Once you see the game for what it is, you don't want to play it. Once a person gets beyond a certain point I actually think they appear so alien and stupid to normal people that their leadership abilities are curtailed unless they're socialized really well and give a shit about actually dealing with normies.

I think China is going to try to min-max IQ and destroy their population.

There is truth in this. IQ doesn't even correlate with socioeconomic success above, say, 115.

IQ is not the critical trait we want to optimize. Executive Function is.

Executive Function is the overall cover term for traits such as conscientiousness, future time orientation, impulse control, work ethic, grit, perseverance, etc. These traits together are what old school people used to call "good character". All positive attributes in society as well as socioeconomic success correlates perfectly with Executive Function. An optimized human would have an IQ around 130 with Executive Function to the max.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Tex - 06-04-2019 01:01 PM

Eh I bet they secretly perfected gene editing and they're going to act like they haven't so there's plausible deniability when they start secretly editing pregnant women's genes.

My prediction for 2025 is pregnant women's doctor appointments will mysteriously get twice as long and we'll see a "surprise" uptick in tri-racial hermaphrodite babies.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Abelard Lindsey - 06-04-2019 01:03 PM

I know religious types often talk about a trait called humility. I would say an objective definition of humility is the recognition that you do not know something when you don't know something. This is the only definition of this trait that makes any useful sense at all.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - yeppels - 06-04-2019 01:06 PM

(06-04-2019 12:43 PM)Gimlet Wrote:  Homosexual men are created, not born. "Born that way" is a lie. Almost all were molested. Some call it molestation, some call it fun with an older guy. But all were indoctrinated into that lifestyle. There is no gene to be found.

Considering that we've found relationships between genes and conservatism/liberalism: https://phys.org/news/2015-08-genes-liberal.html

I wouldn't be surprised at all if genetics are involved in some way. Either way, no western scientist can undertake such a study as it will be career suicide regardless of their results.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Lunostrelki - 06-04-2019 01:23 PM

Why would this scientist care that the babies he edited might die sooner? China keeps hundreds of thousands of people in jail so that they can cut them open for their organs when an aging Party official or rich foreigner comes along for a transplant. When they're not harvesting organs they're performing all kinds of weird experiments on religious prisoners or selling their plastinated corpses to Body Worlds.

It's worth noting that He Jiankui's research into gene-edited babies was funded by a prestigious university in Shenzhen, which is a metropolis at the heart of China's dog-eat-dog business culture and exists solely because of profit. Advanced Marxist materialism took care of bourgeois concepts like human dignity or respect for life decades ago.

Announcing his achievements loudly and proudly may have been a bit too autistic for He Jiankui's own good though. Last I heard he was officially criticized, then disappeared. He doesn't look that old, so maybe his organs have been repurposed by now.

Plastination of "unclaimed" human cadavers from China:

http://www.upholdjustice.org/node/236

Quote:China is the only country where such a business has been made possible by the government. The human body plastination business started around year 2000 when the Chinese regime intensified its persecution of Falun Gong practitioners. ... public security, procuratorate and court systems, controlled by the Political & Legal Affairs Committee (PLAC), are not only the main agencies to persecute Falun Gong, but also the providers of “fresh human corpses.”
...
According to the “Regulations on Dissection of Corpses” issued by the Ministry of Health on Feb. 22, 1979, if a human corpse remains unclaimed for at least one month, it is deemed “unclaimed” and can be used for anatomy studies by medical schools. In order to use the corpses, medical schools must obtain permits from relevant government agencies or the Public Security Bureau[6].
...
Gunter von Hagens, the inventor of the plastination process, was Sui Hongjin’s teacher in Germany and later Sui’s boss in the Von Hagens Plastination factory in Dalian. On Dec. 29, 2001, Hagens received an encrypted email from Sui. It reads, “This morning, two fresh, top quality corpses arrived at the factory. The livers were removed only a few hours ago [8].
...
in July 2003, the Shenyang City Prison Compound opened. The 400,000 square meter Compound consists of several prisons. The 1 billion yuan project was sponsored by CCP Central and the local government, and claims to be able to hold over 10,000 prisoners [31].

Sui Hongjin [32] and his German boss Gunther von Hagens’ body factory was located in Gan Jingzi District of Dalian City [33], which is about 150 kilometers from the Shenyang City Prison Compound.
...
Image9: Full Body Female with Fetus

According to Chinese law, pregnant women cannot be given the death penalty. Even if the woman died in a car accident, her family would be extremely unlikely to allow their loved ones’ bodies to be made into human specimens.

Head transplants:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2120912/human-head-transplant-still-some-way-chinese-surgeon-ren-xiaoping

Quote:Ren, who returned to Harbin in 2012 after studying and working in the United States for decades, said the biggest problem was how to revive the central nervous system, an area where there had been progress around the world.

He showed a video of doctors cutting the spinal cord of a dog and then repairing its nerve cells with a cell fusion agent called polyethylene glycol.

The dog recovered well and could run in two months, Ren said. They observed the animal for a year and concluded the surgery was effective in repairing nerves.

“I believe it will not be too far away to see it materialised on humans,” Ren said.

"Head transplants" are actually more like "body" transplants. If the Chinese can perfect it (unlikely, but they can still kill a lot of people while trying), they'll have a fancier way of getting rid of people who go against the Party line.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Arado - 06-04-2019 03:14 PM

So do people on this thread really think that CRISPR won't work at some point? That because the Chinese are "playing God" that in the future they won't be able to figure out how to select embryos for desirable traits and even create those traits in the future? Sure there will be side effects and plenty of suffering in the meantime, but someone will perfect this technology at some point. Some can argue that all of modern medicine is playing God to some degree.


RE: CRISPR babies at risk for early death - Fortis - 06-04-2019 06:36 PM

(06-04-2019 01:01 PM)Tex Wrote:  Eh I bet they secretly perfected gene editing and they're going to act like they haven't so there's plausible deniability when they start secretly editing pregnant women's genes.

My prediction for 2025 is pregnant women's doctor appointments will mysteriously get twice as long and we'll see a "surprise" uptick in tri-racial hermaphrodite babies.



Lol, no.

China has been using gene editing and they've lost track of the people they've edited. I suspect a country like Japan could pull it off since its population sorely needs some editing for higher sex drive.