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Datasheet on Islam - OskuroPekenyo - 08-26-2019 11:39 AM

﷽‎

A quick datasheet on Islam by a Muslim

Preface:
I saw a lot of misinformation about Islam here. Most of discussion here is about a few rulings here and there and messy geo-politics but not about the actual religion. The purpose of this data sheet is to try to answer "What is Islam?".

As a Muslim, I believe in Islam 100% without doubt and I follow it in its traditional Orthodoxy (Sunni). The sources for the creed and practice are the Qur'an which we hold as the literal word of God and the Sunnah which are the sayings and the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh). They are in Classical Arabic which is a Semitic language (related to Hebrew, also shares many cognates) and any translation is an interpretation (the man has to read, understand and then write in the other language). One can make attempts by learning basic grammar and definitions of the words to take a quick peek but ultimately proper study is necessary.

The context for the sources are the opinions of the first three generations (they saw the application firsthand) and the majority consensus of the scholars (they know what they're doing). The quotes from the Qur'an should usually be seen in the context of surrounding verses and pages.

Very simple language is used deliberately here to make it very easy to glance over and reread. It is also used to keep interpretation singular to keep the scope of misunderstanding to a minimum.

I state the obvious here, however, if there is even just one clause in which you learn something new here, it would have been all worth it.

TLDR:

Islam teaches absolute Monotheism. This is in two contexts:
  • In recognition that the God of Old Testament is the only higher power i.e. He is Omnipotent, He is the one who gives life and death, creates, sustains and destroys etc.
  • In recognition that the God of Old Testament is the only one worthy of worship i.e. no god but God

This is the Biblical first commandment in its strictest form.

Its opposite, polytheism, is the worst sin possible. If you die unrepentant of it, you are in loss as it is the only unforgivable sin.

Most religions termed monotheist agree in the former but disagree with Islam in the latter.

If you worship one other than God, you have set up a god. Its nature, whether it is an abstract idea, a particular human, a state or a statue, does not matter. What matters is that you have deemed it worthy of worship and are violating monotheism.

Islam teaches a creed that is very similar to what is found in the Bible and has the narrative that all of the previous biblical prophets including Jesus (pbut) taught Islam. Islam itself (the 5 pillars etc.) is submission to God and worshipping him in his own terms.

The study of the religion is the study of Creed (what to believe), the study of Law (what and how to practice) and the study of the sources.

Salvation and forgiveness is through God's grace. Your role includes both belief and good deeds. In simple terms, you pray to God and you do your best.

We do not innovate in theology or ritual worship, we keep to what was revealed.

A TLDR video on Islam by a non-Muslim:




A series on Islamic history: https://www.islamicity.org/9106/omar-ibn-khattab-series/

Core concepts

Theology:
To become a Muslim, one utters the Shahaadah (Testimony), with proper knowledge and understanding of the meaning:
"Ashadu an laa ilaaha illa Allah, wa ashadu anna Muhammadan Rasuul-Ullah"

The first part is: "I testify that there is no god, except God"

The second part, is very simple: "I testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is God's messenger"

The word god in the English language covers both meanings ilaah (worthy of worship) and rabb (lord, as in authority and power). Allah refers to God (with a capital G) of Old Testament. The name was used by pre-Islamic Arabs and pre-Islamic Arab speaking Christians, Jews and other biblical sects (e.g. many Jews were called Abd-Allah). The first part of the testimony states that there is none worthy of worship (these acts are defined in Islam as well), except the God of the Bible. Islam takes the first commandment of the Ten Commandments very seriously.

The main theological concept in Islam is Tawheed (Abrahamic Monotheism) in the matters of being worthy of worship, and recognition of certain attributes and deeds belonging to Allah. Its opposite is Shirk (Partnership in Divinity or Lordship) and is the worst sin man could commit. Examples of this are open polytheism (of statues, people, states, natural forces or even abstract concepts etc.) or associating rivals to Allah in obedience, veneration, lordship etc. This can take the form of words, beliefs or actions.

Some examples of acts of worship are:
- Prayer (In ritual or in request) to one
- Bowing down to or prostrating to one
- Seeking blessings from one
- Swearing an oath in the name of one
- Give ultimate priority in obedience to one
- To believe that one possesses knowledge of the unseen (i.e. knowledge beyond the empirical)
- To give the right to legislate to one
- to sacrifice to one

Belief (Creed):
There are six articles of Iman (Belief):
Belief in God
Belief in His Angels
Belief in His Prophets and Messengers
Belief in His Books
Belief in the Day of Judgement
Belief in the Divine Decree

The first two are simple and self-explanatory.

A prophet is one who is sent by God to deliver a message. A messenger is a prophet with scripture. When the name of any prophet is mentioned usually we say peace be upon him (pbuh). The greeting "assalaamu alaykum" means "peace be upon you".

His Books include the Torah, the Psalms, the Qur'an, the Gospel etc, revealed unto the Messengers (pbut).

The Day of Judgement is the final day. All are resurrected for the final judgement. Some will enter Paradise, others Hell.

More details on individual articles of belief are easily accessible online.

Primary sources for belief:
Quran: http://www.quran.com
Sunnah: http://www.sunnah.com

Islam (Practice):
So far, there is the central concept of worship only belonging to God, and the correct creed. Correct worship is only according how He instructs us to do it.

There are five pillars to the practice of Islam. One must exercise Ihsan (excellence) in practice. These pillars are:
The Shahaadah (Testimony)
The Salah (Prayer)
The Sawm (Fasting in Ramadan)
The Hajj (Once in lifetime pilgrimage)
The Zakat (Yearly charity)

Preparing for prayer:




*Note at 1:43 he wipes the head. This is called Masah and is a morphological cognate with the word Messiah. He anoints the head.

The Salah (five daily prayers) is a form of ritual prayer in service. A quick video on ritual prayer:




Al-Fatihah - First chapter of the Qur'an is recited multiple times in prayer followed by an "Amen". It resembles the Christian Lord's prayer in length:
https://quran.com/1

More details for the rest of the pillars are easily accessible online.

Narrative:
This is very simple, every Prophet and Messenger taught Tawheed (Abrahamic Monotheism) and the Sharia (the Way) and warned against Shirk (Partnership in Divinity or Lordship). Essentially, all prophets were Muslim (they submitted to God) and taught Islam (submission to God). People were sent prophets who would warn them in their language. The prophets include the pre-Abrahamic prophets like Adam and Noah (pbut), Israelite prophets and the Ishmaelite prophet (pbut).

Islam also tells parts of the stories of the biblical prophets often omitted, such as the life of Prophet Abraham (in the OT as well as in the Hebrew Midrash) or certain details of the story of Exodus.

History:
Although there were many prophets from before, such as Noah (pbuh) and those of pre-deluge (pbut), the history begins with Abraham (pbuh). His people worshipped idols and his father was an statue-maker. Abraham (pbuh) rejected the worship of these idols. In his time, he was the only one to worship God alone, the only Muslim on earth. God made him a prophet. He tried to make people heedful that worship is the sole divine right of God not to be shared with idols. They rejected him harshly so he migrated.

Abraham had two sons, Ismail and Ishaq (pbut). The Israelite prophets (pbut) descend from Ishaq (pbuh). God ordered Abraham to leave Ismail and Hagar alone in an uninhabited valley. God gave them the well of Zam-Zam. There was a type of bird that circled water when it saw, the tribe of Jurhum (Arabs) spotted this and came towards it. They settled and Ismail married from amongst them. He taught monotheism to them. This was in Mecca.
More detail (https://www.islamicity.org/8946/the-story-of-ibrahim/ ).

For a long time, Mecca was monotheist but eventually, Idolatry was once again introduced by 'Amr ibn Luhayy Al-Khuzaa'iy.

Quraish, the tribe of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is an Arab tribe (though not the only) that descends from prophet Ismail (pbuh). This was the tribe that was settled in Mecca during the time surrounding the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

In circa 570, a few decades before the Prophet's Mission (pbuh), There was a Christian King in Yemen called Abraha who established a great cathedral in San'aa. He sought to divert attention and pilgrimage from Mecca. Arabs found out about this and defiled the church. This angered him greatly and he left to destroy the Kaaba in Mecca with a large army and war elephants. There was resistance, but each army that faced him was crushed. People evacuated Mecca in the nearby hills and watched.

The grand father of the Prophet (pbuh), Abdul-Muttalib, went up to Abraha who had seized local camels for his army. He asked for his camels back (or compensation). Abraha responded, "I am about to destroy the House of your God, and yet you ask me of your camels!?". Abdul-Muttalib then said "The Owner of this House is its Defender...".

In the morning of the attack, flocks of birds carrying rocks appeared and stoned the army, laying waste on them. The inhabitants were watching from the hills and named the year after the even, The Year of The Elephant. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was born that year.

Quick video:




There is a TV Series, "Omar Series", which is about early Islam.
You can watch the first episode here: https://www.islamicity.org/9106/omar-ibn-khattab-series/

Character (what does Islam look like):
Imam Nawawi (born 1233 CE) collected forty hadiths, mostly from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, distilling the foundation of the religion.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Forty-Hadith-Nawawi/dp/1842001159/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=complete+forty+hadith&qid=1560155569&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Online version: https://sunnah.com/nawawi40

Examples from the book:
  • Actions are by intentions
  • None of you believes unless he loves for his brother what he loves for himself

Love thy neighbor: https://sunnah.com/adab/6
TLDR: Take good care of thy neighbor. Do not let them go to sleep on a hungry stomach etc.

Sharia:
So far there are the sources, the Qur'an and the Sunnah and there are the practices. Fiqh (Understanding) is the study of these sources for Sharia (the Way). The manner in which the prayer, fasting, pilgrimage and other duties are performed, and the Halaal (permitted) and Haraam (Forbidden) are topics in Sharia.

Sharia spans pretty much everything including the personal (e.g. diet), the economic law (e.g. banning compound interest) and the criminal law. The last is mentioned most commonly in the media alongside various prohibitions and punishments especially when Islam is mentioned with politics. These are referred to in Sharia as Hudud (Boundaries, Limits) and require strict evidence (minimum of four witnesses, a court and a learned Sharia judge). One would have to bear witness against oneself multiple times or commit the sin in public to cross the limit and to incur the full punishment. The law effectively stops people from showing off with their sins and corrupting the moral standards of the society and culture. A lot of the prohibitions and punishments are also found in the Bible, Islamic values heavily overlap with those of the Old Testament.

Ignoring the strict requirements is gross misconduct and not Islamic.

Things that are forbidden for Muslims, are also forbidden to sell to non-Muslims. No usury here.

This term is analogous to Halakha (the Way in Judaism). There are some similarities between the two as a lot of what is proscribed in Islam is also found in the Bible.

Christian disagreement with Islam on basis of Sharia is indirectly disagreeing with the Old Testament God, it is very Marcionite.

Five Necessities:
There is a concept called the five necessities that Sharia also protects:
  1. Correct religion: The right to be aware of the right religion and its preservation and protection from things that may affect its purity.
  2. Sanctity of Life: Protection of Human life even if it involves sinning (e.g. if there was nothing halal to eat and the person was starving he is permitted to eat and survive)
  3. Sanctity of the Mind: Protection of the Human mind from things that impair it e.g. forbidding intoxicants
  4. Sanctity of Family/Progeny , Protection of Lineage by:
    • Encouraging and protecting marriage
    • Forbidding fornication & adultery
    • Forbidding the slandering and defamation of people's Lineage
    • Encourages adherents to preserve and protect their honor
  5. Protection of Property:
    • Halal (Lawful) earnings and protection and preservation of wealth encouraged.
    • Haram (unlawful) earnings such as by deception, interest and other wrongful means are strictly forbidden.


Google it for more details:
The five necessities

Eschatology:
The Prophet (pbuh) has spoken a lot about the Endtimes and its signs. In summary, there will be widespread degeneracy in the World. Muslims also will be doing things that they should not doing. There will be sectarianism and despite being numerous, Muslims will be attacked by all Nations.

Before the major signs, there will be a joint campaign between Muslims and Christians to fight a common enemy.

There will be:
  • An Armageddon
  • An Antichrist (Al Masih Ad-Dajjal - The Imposter Messiah)
  • Second coming of Jesus (pbuh)
  • Rule of Jesus as king
  • Invasion of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Gog and Magog)
  • Return of degeneracy
  • Destruction of Ka'ba and end to Hajj
  • The Rapture, no more Muslims on Earth
  • Even more degeneracy
  • The trumpet will be blown on the worst people, which will start the Day of Judgement

There are lists of the Minor signs and the Major signs. The Minor sign I find most interesting is that bare footed nomads (Arabs) will compete in building the tallest buildings. These lists are available upon googling.

Minor signs before the hour:




Al-Mahdi:
https://youtu.be/4oED6xzX5K8

Dajjal:
https://youtu.be/CQg5EFpH3Yg

The channels TheProphetsPath and TheMercifulServant are pretty addicting to watch. They are also under attack by Youtube.

About they Day of Judgement itself...
"They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, "Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly." They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, "Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most of the people do not know."" [Quran 7:187]
Link: https://quran.com/7/187

Other:
If there are questions on Islam itself, feel free to ask any Muslim.

The invitation to join Islam is implied.

More:
There is a datasheet on Muslim geopolitics in the works as well as one on sects. I will gauge the response to this and see whether appropriate.

Taster on geopolitics:
Hint: Kurds are not a sect, they are a predominantly Sunni non-Arab ethnic group who have been trying to make a nation-state for a long time. Nobody is interested in their goals yet, so they are not funded as much as other groups in Iraq/Syria. Their beef is ethnic and nationalist, not religious.

Plot twist: Bashar Al-Assad won the Syrian civil war by releasing the convicted terrorists from the prisons into the rebels, provoking Jihad by telling the his sect Alawites to prostrate to his pictures and by torturing Sunnis and forcing them to recognize him as a god (the biggest no-no in Islam). This caused the opposition to be monopolized by terrorist groups, he won the moment this happened. Google these for yourselves (obviously some google pictures will be NSFW).

These groups are not considered Sunni by Sunnis because they branched off of the school of thought, then removed the laws forbidding their tactics and added rules of their own. The correct term is Khawarij, Latinised as Kharijites (Mutineers/Traitors). They are similar to the Jewish Zealots during the Roman occupation of Judea, but there was no gunpowder 2000 years ago.

There are a few other topics in Islam that I may further elaborate in the future.

Edit: I have decided to keep this thread for discussion regarding Islamic Theology and Practice. I can make another for a datasheet on geopolitics and sects.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - SlickyBoy - 08-26-2019 12:37 PM

Back during the housing crunch of 2007-8, there was some haughty discussion of how it never would have happened had the western powers been using Islamic finance. That discussion fizzled when it became clear that most Islamic nations do not make wide use of Islamic finance, at least not as much as everyone else thought.

I support the idea of getting rid of compound interest though. That scourge plus exponential moral subversion have been the two component wrecking ball of western civilization.

There are plenty of oligarchs who will do whatever they can to prevent people from waking up to the destructive power of compound interest, but I would be interested to know Islamic finance methods gained any traction over the past decade or so, with or without Sharia involvement.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-26-2019 12:56 PM

In Christianity, we use to outright ban usury. I will admit that muslim is the only one left that still holds that rule, and I have to give props cause it means that the religion has stuck out admist all the subversion and perversion of morality caused by the rise of civilization. And I also see the effects it has had on our nation. Innovation and families have become destroyed, and our wealth has took a big dive as it has been transferred as debt into the hands of the elite. I'm not for crying about people getting rich. What I do hate is when people steal literally the hard work of people's labors with making money from money, and the government going on with it by letting cross state usury laws be ignored, along with putting a gun to your head by making you not only pay their taxes, but also having to acknowledge the federal reserve as it manipulates our economy with a central bank that shouldn't even be there.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - balybary - 08-26-2019 01:29 PM

Sounds legit

Quote:Plot twist: Bashar Al-Assad won the Syrian civil war by releasing the convicted terrorists from the prisons into the rebels, provoking Jihad by telling the his sect Alawites to prostrate to his pictures and by torturing Sunnis and forcing them to recognize him as a god (the biggest no-no in Islam). This caused the opposition to be monopolized by terrorist groups, he won the moment this happened. Google these for yourselves (obviously some google pictures will be NSFW).

[Image: 79501937.jpg]


RE: Datasheet on Islam - 911 - 08-26-2019 02:18 PM

Yeah I think the OP is delusional on geopolitics, the tidbit about Assad is straight out from the ISIS/useful idiot anti-Assad line. The fact is, the majority of fighters with the Syrian army against the jihadis are themselves sunni muslim. Also the Kurds in Syria are actually heavily armed and funded by NATO/Israel.

OP, what's your ethnic background, I'm guessing you're from south Asia (Pak./India)?


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Abelard Lindsey - 08-26-2019 04:58 PM

If you have money, there are two ways to invest it. One is in equities, which is ownership shares in an ongoing enterprise. The other is debt investment, which is either bonds or direct loans to ongoing enterprises or individuals. The appreciation of the capital investment is the return on the first. Interest, often called the "time value" of money, is the return on the second form of investment. If interest is banned, as is the case with Islam as well as traditional forms of Christianity, then equity investment is the only form available. This works fine for investing in business enterprises. But is rather difficult for consumer finance, especially big ticket items such as housing. Perhaps, in a system where compound interest is banned, we could go back to the days where there was no consumer finance. We paid cash for everything. Since housing is inherently expensive relative to income, assuming no technology breakthrough like 3-D printing or molecular nanotechnology that makes housing as cheap as, say, a happy meal, I don't really see any alternative to debt finance unless we accept a system where only the wealthy can afford to buy their own houses outright with cash. Afterall, if I have money, or run an institution with money, why would I lend it out (e.g. debt finance) if there is no way for me to earn a return on that money? If course I would never do that.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-26-2019 05:05 PM

(08-26-2019 04:58 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  If you have money, there are two ways to invest it. One is in equities, which is ownership shares in an ongoing enterprise. The other is debt investment, which is either bonds or direct loans to ongoing enterprises or individuals. The appreciation of the capital investment is the return on the first. Interest, often called the "time value" of money, is the return on the second form of investment. If interest is banned, as is the case with Islam as well as traditional forms of Christianity, then equity investment is the only form available. This works fine for investing in business enterprises. But is rather difficult for consumer finance, especially big ticket items such as housing. Perhaps, in a system where compound interest is banned, we could go back to the days where there was no consumer finance. We paid cash for everything. Since housing is inherently expensive relative to income, assuming no technology breakthrough like 3-D printing or molecular nanotechnology that makes housing as cheap as, say, a happy meal, I don't really see any alternative to debt finance unless we accept a system where only the wealthy can afford to buy their own houses outright with cash. Afterall, if I have money, or run an institution with money, why would I lend it out (e.g. debt finance) if there is no way for me to earn a return on that money? If course I would never do that.
You do what you did before interest rates. You saved your own money and bought it. The banks were the one who didn't want people saving money on their own instead of loaning it from them. So they did the most devious trick in the world and now force you to have to loan in order to buy a house or to start a relatively small business. Online businesses have helped curve that scam, but I won't be surprised if they come up with a new way to stop people from avoiding bank loan funding.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Abelard Lindsey - 08-26-2019 05:07 PM

A related matter is that I have heard that the concept of insurance is also not allowed in a true Islamic society. I don't know if this is true or not. Since insurance is a method of covering for unlikely events that cost significant money (e.g. car accident, house destroyed by tornado, etc.), I fail to see how one can cover for this kind of event without insurance.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-26-2019 05:15 PM

(08-26-2019 05:07 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  A related matter is that I have heard that the concept of insurance is also not allowed in a true Islamic society. I don't know if this is true or not. Since insurance is a method of covering for unlikely events that cost significant money (e.g. car accident, house destroyed by tornado, etc.), I fail to see how one can cover for this kind of event without insurance.
The answer to this: insurance is a scam, at least required insurance. Insurance was created because a lot of business people (not consumers) wanted to curve the risk of having assets. Insurance also uproots the markets in ways that end up hurting everyone in the end.

Example: cars. Insurance largely exists for cars because the high risk of the individuals involved in the accident not able to pay for any damages on their own. If car insurance did not exist, cars would either be cheaper so easy to replace or premium cars would be made that are tougher against accidents. If you subsidize it, the product will always get lower in quality and higher in price. Always.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - kamoz - 08-26-2019 05:31 PM

Waiting for SS to bomb this thread like...

[Image: 5aa0bad48f049.jpeg]


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Gimlet - 08-26-2019 06:23 PM

(08-26-2019 05:05 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  You do what you did before interest rates. You saved your own money and bought it. The banks were the one who didn't want people saving money on their own instead of loaning it from them. So they did the most devious trick in the world and now force you to have to loan in order to buy a house or to start a relatively small business. Online businesses have helped curve that scam, but I won't be surprised if they come up with a new way to stop people from avoiding bank loan funding.

It's already being implemented. Negative interest rates.

https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/negative-interest-rates


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Kid Twist - 08-26-2019 06:55 PM

Yes, reconstructionist religions tend to be the most amusing to deal with (if using logic, not with the people incidentally) because they show you how silly the common trick of unfalsifiable claims is, that for whatever reason shows up over and over in belief systems --- I guess for obvious reasons.

What's more amusing is that the claim of "Everyone corrupted xyz before we came along to set it straight" usually goes hand in hand with a whole bunch of wackiness, and conveniently, revelations that keep changing over time to suit the "leader." Joseph Smith and Muhammad must have been high fiving in that time machine of theirs. It was there also that they said to one another, "Multiple wives? Yeah, why not." And then laughed it all off.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Oz. - 08-26-2019 07:29 PM

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=11983844]


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-26-2019 07:48 PM

(08-26-2019 06:23 PM)Gimlet Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 05:05 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  You do what you did before interest rates. You saved your own money and bought it. The banks were the one who didn't want people saving money on their own instead of loaning it from them. So they did the most devious trick in the world and now force you to have to loan in order to buy a house or to start a relatively small business. Online businesses have helped curve that scam, but I won't be surprised if they come up with a new way to stop people from avoiding bank loan funding.

It's already being implemented. Negative interest rates.

https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/negative-interest-rates
That is pretty funny. I didn't think I could laugh as loud as I did today, but here I am.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - PapayaTapper - 08-26-2019 08:10 PM

OP...Your datasheet is missing the "How To "


[Image: ed645236e7d12a0b4f9cea6d989dd459.jpg]


Or alternatively a condemnation of violence against non believers


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Bienvenuto - 08-26-2019 08:12 PM

Plot twist: Bashar Al-Assad won the Syrian civil war by releasing the convicted terrorists from the prisons into the rebels, provoking Jihad by telling the his sect Alawites to prostrate to his pictures and by torturing Sunnis and forcing them to recognize him as a god (the biggest no-no in Islam). This caused the opposition to be monopolized by terrorist groups, he won the moment this happened. Google these for yourselves (obviously some google pictures will be NSFW).

Bullshit.

Your Sunni friends in Qatar and Saudi, in league with the CIA and Mossad and Erdogan, threw every Sunni ex-convict, child rapist, Chechen fighter, criminal and murderer they could arrange into Syria.

Stop projecting my friend. It was your team who emptied their jails.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Athanasius - 08-26-2019 08:22 PM

Key differences with Christianity:
1) Islam denies the sonship and deity of Christ
2) It is unitarian rather than trinitarian monotheism
3) It denies the crucifixion

It's hard to take Islam seriously once you have a working understanding of the Bible and the early church. Jesus is a good example. His vivid, unforgettable personality in the Gospels is nowhere to be seen in the Quran. The Quran tells us that the Bible is the incorruptible word of Allah and calls us to refer to the earlier books (OT and NT). And yet these books contradict the Quran everywhere. "Yes, but the Bible was corrupted." And I ask: Where are these Islamic texts? We have full Biblical manuscripts dated centuries before the Quran and fragments going back to the early 2nd century. And copious Biblical quotations from the church fathers going back to Clement of Rome (late 1st century). Nowhere did the church teach anything like Islam. There's no continuity between the Quran and either testament, whereas the NT writers display an intimate knowledge of the OT.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - for.petes.sake - 08-26-2019 09:32 PM

Here is the short answer on what is Islam: It is a cult

Its massive following has skewed most people’s perception on it. Let me explain on why it is.

First I cannot deny that Islam does have spiritual aspects to it. Every religion must have spiritual aspects to it in order for it have a following. But what Islam’s differs from Christianity or Buddhism is that its main focus is control and growth.

Every aspect of a Muslims person life is governed by a set of rules. From day you are born (circumcision) to the day you die (even what you wear to the grave), Islam gives you no choice in life. Heck Islam even tells you how many times you are supposed to chew your food. Islam strips you of your free will.

Then there are the set of political rules that come into play. The Koran has rules on how to govern people. Why would God create so many political laws? A religion should be to spiritual guide you, not tell you how to govern (and in such detail).

And don't get me started on the societal rules. I hate feminists so much for how they vehemently defend Islam when it really treats women like crap. The women dress up like ghosts and are treated like cattle. Heck when it’s time to divide the land they only get half the share (this is the best case because the parents have the option to give no shares at all too).

The main cultist part is the brainwashing. Pray 5 times a day! Why would God need me to pray 5 times a day? And then that too at such odd times like 5am. Then there is a prayer call just so you do not skip a beat. God should not need a dog whistle to force people to do something. This repetition of prayer is to constantly to keep the masses brainwashed.

Alcohol is banned so that people do not get drunk and never break free from the programming.

Finally it goes even beyond most of the cults of the world. Most of the modern cults ostracize ex-members but leaving Islam is punishable by death. If you are non-believer you are going to hell so why would God want his followers to kill you even though you are going to hell? Shouldn't he have fate in his own followers that they would not leave?

Islam makes a person’s only identity becomes their religion (which is what a cult does). Look at places that have been Muslim for awhile and research how they have lost their cultures.

Islam is a cult.

In order from culty-ness

Islam>Sikhism>Judaism>Hinduism>>>>>>>>>>>Christianity=Buddhism

Just so some Sikh or Hindu guy doesn’t start bashing Islam and then start praising their own religion (I get sick and tired of this). You guy aren’t that much better either.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Abelard Lindsey - 08-26-2019 10:20 PM

(08-26-2019 05:05 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 04:58 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  If you have money, there are two ways to invest it. One is in equities, which is ownership shares in an ongoing enterprise. The other is debt investment, which is either bonds or direct loans to ongoing enterprises or individuals. The appreciation of the capital investment is the return on the first. Interest, often called the "time value" of money, is the return on the second form of investment. If interest is banned, as is the case with Islam as well as traditional forms of Christianity, then equity investment is the only form available. This works fine for investing in business enterprises. But is rather difficult for consumer finance, especially big ticket items such as housing. Perhaps, in a system where compound interest is banned, we could go back to the days where there was no consumer finance. We paid cash for everything. Since housing is inherently expensive relative to income, assuming no technology breakthrough like 3-D printing or molecular nanotechnology that makes housing as cheap as, say, a happy meal, I don't really see any alternative to debt finance unless we accept a system where only the wealthy can afford to buy their own houses outright with cash. Afterall, if I have money, or run an institution with money, why would I lend it out (e.g. debt finance) if there is no way for me to earn a return on that money? If course I would never do that.
You do what you did before interest rates. You saved your own money and bought it. The banks were the one who didn't want people saving money on their own instead of loaning it from them. So they did the most devious trick in the world and now force you to have to loan in order to buy a house or to start a relatively small business. Online businesses have helped curve that scam, but I won't be surprised if they come up with a new way to stop people from avoiding bank loan funding.

That's fine and dandy, and I've paid cash for my last three cars. However, it makes it rather difficult to buy a house. On the other hand, if there was no financing for home ownership, it is quite likely that real estate would be a lot cheaper than it is.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - qwertyuiop - 08-26-2019 10:29 PM

A few questions:

Q1. What's the deal with the 72 virgins?

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Q2. Why do you guys inbreed more than people from Alabama?

https://www.google.com/search?q=islam+rates+of+incest&oq=islam+rates+of+incest&aqs=chrome..69i57.2321j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Q3. Why do you guys like blowing yourselves up? Do you think it has to do with low IQ from inbreeding?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/cousin-marriage-can-reduce-i-q-a-lot/#.XWSk7JNKjfY

Q4. What does it feel like when the entire islamic world (billion+?) hasn't been able to kick out a few million jews from Israel?


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Solitaire - 08-26-2019 11:56 PM

Was just chatting about this with my buddy earlier tonight. We were making beer in his kitchen, testing out an oatmeal stout recipe for his pending brewery opening, and drinking some other beer while we brewed ... Anyway, he asked me, "Why do the women have to wear those whatdayacallems?" to which I replied, "Burkas? Well I'm not entirely sure." He then said, "But do you think they want to? Like, wouldn't you have to be brainwashed to want to hide yourself under a sheet?" To this, I had to agree - whatever tortured reasoning went into the idea, it's brainwashing on a cultural scale. The burkas, the 5X per day kneeling & chanting, the whole kit.

As soon as someone starts explaining how any religion got itself going, I just have to shake my head at it all. I'm no huge fan of South Park but their Joseph Smith episode is hilariously enlightening, and truly frightening.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Mage - 08-27-2019 01:19 AM

Every religion that denies individual liberation trough perfection of character, meditation and mindfulness and claims God can be reached only trough proxies like scripture, priesthood, scholars or membership to some group like Church or Ummah is wrong and exists to:
a) derail your spiritual quest from introspection to arguing about scriptures and history [is torah].
b) make you a pawn in the political games.
c) gain power and money at your expense.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-27-2019 10:33 AM

(08-26-2019 10:20 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 05:05 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  
(08-26-2019 04:58 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  If you have money, there are two ways to invest it. One is in equities, which is ownership shares in an ongoing enterprise. The other is debt investment, which is either bonds or direct loans to ongoing enterprises or individuals. The appreciation of the capital investment is the return on the first. Interest, often called the "time value" of money, is the return on the second form of investment. If interest is banned, as is the case with Islam as well as traditional forms of Christianity, then equity investment is the only form available. This works fine for investing in business enterprises. But is rather difficult for consumer finance, especially big ticket items such as housing. Perhaps, in a system where compound interest is banned, we could go back to the days where there was no consumer finance. We paid cash for everything. Since housing is inherently expensive relative to income, assuming no technology breakthrough like 3-D printing or molecular nanotechnology that makes housing as cheap as, say, a happy meal, I don't really see any alternative to debt finance unless we accept a system where only the wealthy can afford to buy their own houses outright with cash. Afterall, if I have money, or run an institution with money, why would I lend it out (e.g. debt finance) if there is no way for me to earn a return on that money? If course I would never do that.
You do what you did before interest rates. You saved your own money and bought it. The banks were the one who didn't want people saving money on their own instead of loaning it from them. So they did the most devious trick in the world and now force you to have to loan in order to buy a house or to start a relatively small business. Online businesses have helped curve that scam, but I won't be surprised if they come up with a new way to stop people from avoiding bank loan funding.

That's fine and dandy, and I've paid cash for my last three cars. However, it makes it rather difficult to buy a house. On the other hand, if there was no financing for home ownership, it is quite likely that real estate would be a lot cheaper than it is.
The reason is because of this: when you buy out a house, who owns it? You, who would save money and buy it straight cash? Or the bank that you take a loan out with to get it? Guess who the assets goes to if you go into default?

Now you see the grand scheme of banking.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - 911 - 08-27-2019 12:04 PM

Technically speaking, mortgages are not usurious, because the real interest rate (at least in the past decade or two) is close to 0. Real interest rate is defined as the nominal interest rate minus the inflation rate.

Inflation in the West has been around 4%-5%, so quite a bit higher than the official numbers which peg inflation around 2%-3%. Mortgage rates are around 3%-4%, so when you get a mortgage, you are practically getting an interest free loan, that's why it's not usurious.

I have a friend who is muslim, he's been renting apartments for the last 20 years. He's got 3 kids, MBA, comfortable dual income but well short of having enough savings to buy a house without a mortgage. His rent has been going up on average around 3%-4% per year, he's moved twice as his family expanded. Had he purchased a house 20 years ago, that property would have nearly quadrupled in value, he would have basically lived rent-free and built up his equity just from getting a mortgage.

I've tried to reason with him, working out the numbers, and showing him that he would have been way ahead by getting a mortgage instead of renting as he understands finance, but there was no logos there. This being said, credit card debt and personal/car loans at above 5% interest are definitely usurious.


RE: Datasheet on Islam - Manbeline - 08-27-2019 01:10 PM

(08-27-2019 12:04 PM)911 Wrote:  Technically speaking, mortgages are not usurious, because the real interest rate (at least in the past decade or two) is close to 0. Real interest rate is defined as the nominal interest rate minus the inflation rate.

Inflation in the West has been around 4%-5%, so quite a bit higher than the official numbers which peg inflation around 2%-3%. Mortgage rates are around 3%-4%, so when you get a mortgage, you are practically getting an interest free loan, that's why it's not usurious.

I have a friend who is muslim, he's been renting apartments for the last 20 years. He's got 3 kids, MBA, comfortable dual income but well short of having enough savings to buy a house without a mortgage. His rent has been going up on average around 3%-4% per year, he's moved twice as his family expanded. Had he purchased a house 20 years ago, that property would have nearly quadrupled in value, he would have basically lived rent-free and built up his equity just from getting a mortgage.

I've tried to reason with him, working out the numbers, and showing him that he would have been way ahead by getting a mortgage instead of renting as he understands finance, but there was no logos there. This being said, credit card debt and personal/car loans at above 5% interest are definitely usurious.
Don't remind me. Having my current car loan almost at 5% still annoys me. Every minimum payment I make, I'm paying the interest at about a quarter of the entire payment. A big rip off. If I'm making regular payments, there should be no need for an interest, or something close to zero. The fact I am paying alone and on time should waive any of that. That should be illegal but here we are.

Just as an example, this is the current tally of me paying off a car of mines. All that money toward interest and none going to principal is driving me up the wall. To date, that interest is 31% of my payment. I'm literally giving them free money.

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