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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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SunW Offline
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Post: #2151
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Related to bitcoin: Bitcoin and gold jump, Fed "accidentally" releases memo, spelling out one interest rate increase later this year. I do not think this was an accident; I think the Fed wants to see how the market will react.

I agree with ZH on this; one interest rate increase is very dovish and this may be one reason why bitcoin is higher on preev.
07-24-2015 03:24 PM
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brg444 Offline
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Post: #2152
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-24-2015 03:08 PM)SunW Wrote:  Above, see the divisibility statement. Ironically, I never said any such thing. The point of gold being divisible is that other commodities are divisible and that's part of the reason for measuring systems such as the Metric (which is not the only measuring system). Both you and BRG are mistaking an example for an argument. An example is not an argument; an example is a demonstration of how something works.

BitGold is a derivative of e-gold, which was founded in 1999, long before bitcoin. BitGold (and it seems like you're distracted by the name) has absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin and is not copying it whatsoever. E-gold was shut down by the US Government and George Soros (and his sons) have been interested in starting a gold backed global currency, which is what BitGold is. One of Soros' sons was the early investor, BitGold was started outside of the United States (wise move), and it holds gold all over the world (another wise move).

The problem I have with BitGold is that, so far as I know, you can't lend it out. That was my criticism of it. That may change.

...

I'll reiterate: bitcoin offers a lot of benefits I like. I am not buying right at this moment (I already own quite a few), as I want to see how the bitcoin market reacts to an interest rate increase, if it happens this year. I am very interested in people's perspectives on it, but I am not interested in fanboy's perspectives of it, so I don't intend to continue discussions with fanboys. I will continue discussing it with people, like yourself, who offer insight. Insight is not something a fanboy can offer; they say things like "It has an advantage over gold in that it's divisible" when they don't see how obvious gold divisibility is too (or silver). Fanboys aren't objective about things; it's like speaking to a blue-piller about his girl - she's perfect no matter what.

Quote:Founded in 2014, BitGold launched with the mission to make gold payments practical by digitizing them through Bitcoin’s payment network.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/20543/bitgol...2-million/

The name should've given you a hint Wink

The issue with BitGold is they are a counter-party. It is not that much better than any gold ETF. Unless you actually get it physically delivered to you all you own is an IOU.

The point being that Bitcoin is here precisely to make these models obsolete and allow individuals to store value in an asset that is free from counter-party risks and effectively out of the reach of any state actors.

As for the divisibility argument I will reiterate my position : unless you can explain to me how micro-sized transactions (less than a penny) could be done using gold I will continue to propose that Bitcoin has an advantage over gold because of its digital nature. Of course other advantages can be derived from its digital nature: easy to store, easy to secure, easy to transfer.

Bitcoin is really gold 2.0. Now if we are to compare Bitcoin's market cap to gold and suggest the former could eventually absord a portion of the latter's then it makes sense to say that Bitcoin, no matter at what price, is a cheap buy Smile
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2015 08:04 PM by brg444.)
07-24-2015 07:47 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2153
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-24-2015 03:08 PM)SunW Wrote:  If you want to jump into a discussion, that's fine, but you need to pay attention how it started, which is why I made the comments I did:

SunW. Seems like you have a tendency to get caught up in irrelevant shit, in advising guys.

One thing if you meant your communications with BRG to be private, then send such communications privately to him. Second, it is fairly likely that I understand your various points sufficiently well enough to jump into the discussion.... because we are talking here in this thread about bitcoin and various matters related to bitcoin.... On the other hand, even if I did't completely understand your various points, who gives a flying fuck, I made various points of my own related to bitcoin and related to points that you were making that I considered to be sufficiently and adequately related to whatever it was that you were talking about in order to make my points. That seems to be a discretion within my own judgement to decide whether to post on a thread topic.

(07-24-2015 03:08 PM)SunW Wrote:  There has been no solid macroeconomic (or microeconomic) reason offered why bitcoin will hit $10K in 2016. I'm still waiting for this. Just cuz isn't a reason. Additionally, with gold, silver and a basket of commodities becoming cheaper, those may be the best buys of 2016. We'll see, but outside of an insane QE (like 10 trillion), we probably won't see bitcoin at $10K.

Of course you have a right to your different opinion, and your prediction that Bitcoin will not reach $10k or whatever price point, but you seem to be wrong about the reasons provided for such possibilities.

In other words, you seem to be creating various strawman arguments, and attribute things that no one said. No one said, "just cuz" in their predictions of bitcoin. You can read a large variety of posts in this thread and see a large variety of reasons why several guys here are optimistic and/or bullish regarding the price direction of bitcoin. Maybe $10k is a bit of a high expectation in 2016; however, it is NOT unrealistic. As has already been suggested, bitcoin is much more than some stock on the stock exchange, there are fundamental and paradigm shifting innovations in bitcoin regarding the peer to peer and the trustless ability to carry out transactions, and accordingly, there seems to be a lot of ways to attribute value to the whole concept of BTC that supercedes the values of gold.... accordingly, if we use gold as a comparison measurement point we will see that gold has a market cap of nearly 7 trillion. Yet if we look at BTC, we see only a 4 billion market cap. Accordingly, there remains a lot of room for growth with BTC and $10k is NOT out of the question, because $10k would merely bring BTC's market cap to less than $200 billion, a mere fraction of gold's market cap value, even though btc could have much more utility than gold.




(07-24-2015 03:08 PM)SunW Wrote:  Stated differently, "Wall Street Style", who's buying bitcoin at $10K when gold is $500 an ounce, silver is $5 an ounce, 30YT are yielding 5%, and developing stock markets have fallen 80%? The answer: no one with a brain.

You are correct that no one is buying bitcoin at the moment because they do NOT recognize the value or see the upside potential in comparison with the rich. However, as price goes up, more and more people begin to buy, and the increase in price can create its own upward momentum, that will NOT necessarily be rational while it is going on. For example, if there is a loss of confidence in other investments and their ability to hold value, in those cases, btc can become the go to point because currently it remains capable of absorbing such increases in value.


(07-24-2015 03:08 PM)SunW Wrote:  Fanboys aren't objective about things; it's like speaking to a blue-piller about his girl - she's perfect no matter what.

Here's another example of your bullshit, and your tendency to distract with inapt analogies.
07-26-2015 12:40 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2154
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-24-2015 03:24 PM)SunW Wrote:  Related to bitcoin: Bitcoin and gold jump, Fed "accidentally" releases memo, spelling out one interest rate increase later this year. I do not think this was an accident; I think the Fed wants to see how the market will react.

I agree with ZH on this; one interest rate increase is very dovish and this may be one reason why bitcoin is higher on preev.

Who is ZH?
07-26-2015 12:41 PM
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brg444 Offline
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Post: #2155
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-26-2015 12:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 03:24 PM)SunW Wrote:  Related to bitcoin: Bitcoin and gold jump, Fed "accidentally" releases memo, spelling out one interest rate increase later this year. I do not think this was an accident; I think the Fed wants to see how the market will react.

I agree with ZH on this; one interest rate increase is very dovish and this may be one reason why bitcoin is higher on preev.

Who is ZH?

ZeroHedge
07-26-2015 01:15 PM
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Post: #2156
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-26-2015 01:15 PM)brg444 Wrote:  
(07-26-2015 12:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-24-2015 03:24 PM)SunW Wrote:  Related to bitcoin: Bitcoin and gold jump, Fed "accidentally" releases memo, spelling out one interest rate increase later this year. I do not think this was an accident; I think the Fed wants to see how the market will react.

I agree with ZH on this; one interest rate increase is very dovish and this may be one reason why bitcoin is higher on preev.

Who is ZH?



ZeroHedge


hahahahaha... Thanks.... should be obvious for anyone who follows finance? O.k., less ambiguous, now.
07-26-2015 01:35 PM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #2157
RE: The Bitcoin thread
No one has posted this cyber fund rating yet in this thread; https://cyber.fund/

I find it interesting. For those who've been in the thread for awhile might remember that I've been speaking about the flaws in bitcoin before and to be they just seems to get harder and harder to ignore. I feel like I'm living in the stone age every time I'm waiting for a block to conform my transaction, to be honest. The huge blockchain and the waste of energy is just two other things that makes the bitcoin protocol look outdated. I believe that some other technology will be superior to bitcoin in the future. There is already today other protocols which are better, however they're not that much better that they will replace bitcoin.

Still I've been buying bitcoins in February, April, May, and my last coin bough was on the last of June at the price of around $255. Won't buy any more from now, one less the price goes down again. Made some money on a LTC short too, but that one is dangerous. Completely unpredictable.


Edit; this link explain the ratings; https://blog.cyber.fund/releasing-the-ra...ea0733b893
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2015 07:24 PM by Satoshi.)
07-28-2015 07:22 PM
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BBinger Offline
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Post: #2158
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-28-2015 07:22 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  No one has posted this cyber fund rating yet in this thread; https://cyber.fund/

I find it interesting. For those who've been in the thread for awhile might remember that I've been speaking about the flaws in bitcoin before and to be they just seems to get harder and harder to ignore. I feel like I'm living in the stone age every time I'm waiting for a block to conform my transaction, to be honest. The huge blockchain and the waste of energy is just two other things that makes the bitcoin protocol look outdated. I believe that some other technology will be superior to bitcoin in the future. There is already today other protocols which are better, however they're not that much better that they will replace bitcoin.

Still I've been buying bitcoins in February, April, May, and my last coin bough was on the last of June at the price of around $255. Won't buy any more from now, one less the price goes down again. Made some money on a LTC short too, but that one is dangerous. Completely unpredictable.


Edit; this link explain the ratings; https://blog.cyber.fund/releasing-the-ra...ea0733b893

You've just got to use reasonable transactions fees. Bitcoin does not exist to replace food stamps for the poor. If anything 1MB blocks might still be too big at the moment, but hopefully Bitcoin grows into them. I don't see Blocksize increasing for real any time this decade, not with the mining subsidy still halving every four-ish years.

I am extraordinarily suspicious of any service that attempts to rate altcoins (including the USD and Euro) on their future prospects. I also don't recommend anyone new to Bitcoin buy more than a comfortably token amount relative to their networth and risk tolerance.

There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.
07-28-2015 09:20 PM
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Post: #2159
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-28-2015 07:22 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  No one has posted this cyber fund rating yet in this thread; https://cyber.fund/

I find it interesting. For those who've been in the thread for awhile might remember that I've been speaking about the flaws in bitcoin before and to be they just seems to get harder and harder to ignore. I feel like I'm living in the stone age every time I'm waiting for a block to conform my transaction, to be honest. The huge blockchain and the waste of energy is just two other things that makes the bitcoin protocol look outdated. I believe that some other technology will be superior to bitcoin in the future. There is already today other protocols which are better, however they're not that much better that they will replace bitcoin.

Still I've been buying bitcoins in February, April, May, and my last coin bough was on the last of June at the price of around $255. Won't buy any more from now, one less the price goes down again. Made some money on a LTC short too, but that one is dangerous. Completely unpredictable.


Edit; this link explain the ratings; https://blog.cyber.fund/releasing-the-ra...ea0733b893



Satoshi,

I am somewhat surprised by your increased pessimism towards bitcoin. Surely, there has been an extended bear market for nearly 20 months, and there have been a variety of campaigns to denigrate bitcoin.... further, as you suggest, there are some crypto products that truly seem to be technologically superior to bitcoin because they were developed while taking into account some of bitcoin's flaws.

I still believe that there remains considerable upside potential in BTC's prices. For more than 7 months there have been ongoing attempts to drive BTC's prices down... yet... the price direction has been bottomed out.

I certainly cannot predict BTC prices, and i have proven that over the past 20 months.... NONETHELESS, does anyone here really think that we are going to get any sustained period of BTC prices in the lower $200s, meaning below $250. I have my doubts, even though I believe that lower $200s are NOT impossible.... It just seems that were are in the upper $200s and likely on the precipice of some kind of upturn and bull market for BTC... even if it is a slow and gradual bull market..

I still consider these times as good ones to hold and accumulate BTC... surely, I could be wrong... and surely, we gotta maintain our living in such a way that we are NOT investing in BTC beyond our budget and beyond what we are willing to lose... in other words we need to be sufficiently diversified in the event that BTC were to totally fail, which to me seems to be a fairly unlikely occurrence, and if there were some failures in BTC, then the signs would become stronger present than the current signs. My sense is that currently, BTC is fairly strong and continuing to grown and to be developed and there are NO real major flaws that do NOT have work arounds... ...
07-29-2015 01:13 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2160
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-28-2015 09:20 PM)BBinger Wrote:  There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.

Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.
07-29-2015 01:18 AM
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BBinger Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 01:18 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2015 09:20 PM)BBinger Wrote:  There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.

Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.

I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.
07-29-2015 04:06 AM
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 04:06 AM)BBinger Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 01:18 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2015 09:20 PM)BBinger Wrote:  There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.

Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.

I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.

I'm NOT sure whether I understand your comment about Andreas.


I would characterize Andreas as a bitcoin evangelist (probably one of bitcoin's most forceful and articulate advocates).

You can google Andreas Antonopoulos's name to find a lot of talks that he has given in favor and teaching about bitcoin.

When I first heard him talking about bitcoin a year and a half ago, I believe that he was more cautionary about suggesting the inevitability of bitcoin as a technology and a paradigm shift in financial technology. However, in some of his most recent speeches, I heard him talking much more forcefully about the unstoppable nature of bitcoin (in this speech Andreas refers to bitcoin as punk rock rather than smooth Jazz - suggesting that you cannot control or stop bitcoin: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015...y/478007).


Below are a couple of additional informative links about Andreas.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Antonopoulos

http://insidebitcoins.com/news/andreas-a...ears/29708
07-29-2015 06:07 AM
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brg444 Offline
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Post: #2163
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 06:07 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 04:06 AM)BBinger Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 01:18 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2015 09:20 PM)BBinger Wrote:  There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.

Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.

I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.

I'm NOT sure whether I understand your comment about Andreas.

Let's just say BBinger and his circle have some history with Andreas:

http://qntra.net/2015/04/socialist-shill...solutions/

Either way I can only agree with them. Andreas is a tool and his evangelization and subsequent jerk-off following on reddit make me sick.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2015 12:52 PM by brg444.)
07-29-2015 12:46 PM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #2164
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 01:13 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I still believe that there remains considerable upside potential in BTC's prices. For more than 7 months there have been ongoing attempts to drive BTC's prices down... yet... the price direction has been bottomed out.

Yes me too, otherwise I would have sold.
07-29-2015 12:59 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 12:46 PM)brg444 Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 06:07 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 04:06 AM)BBinger Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 01:18 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-28-2015 09:20 PM)BBinger Wrote:  There is a wealth of horrible information out there concerning Bitcoin from parties who at least by self declaration are "pro-bitcoin" and it takes time to find actual relevant information.

Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.

I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.

I'm NOT sure whether I understand your comment about Andreas.

Let's just say BBinger and his circle have some history with Andreas:

http://qntra.net/2015/04/socialist-shill...solutions/

Either way I can only agree with them. Andreas is a tool and his evangelization and subsequent jerk-off following on reddit make me sick.


At least at this point, Andreas remains fairly well respected in a large number of bitcoin circles. Surely, there is going to be some mudslinging towards quasi-public figures, and in this regard, Andreas remains outspoken in several regards.


Ultimately when these kinds of contrary stories occur within varying public circles (sometimes backed up with fairly convincing evidence), each of us needs to take with a grain of salt these various representations that have potential for bias and/or self-dealings... and then come to our own conclusions the extent that we are going to trust certain sources, and which sources we want to trust.

I don't feel any expertise in this regard, or any deep knowledge regarding the comings and goings of Andreas - nonetheless, I will continue to keep my eyes and ears open regarding whether his message seems valid or whether he is experiencing ad hominem attacks.
07-29-2015 06:06 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-29-2015 06:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 12:46 PM)brg444 Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 06:07 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 04:06 AM)BBinger Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 01:18 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Yes, even a lot of the pro-bitcoiners seem to be down from the extended bear market.

Spirits will likely come back up, somewhat, when we see prices returning to the $500 to $600 levels - hopefully within the next 6 months or so.

I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.

I'm NOT sure whether I understand your comment about Andreas.

Let's just say BBinger and his circle have some history with Andreas:

http://qntra.net/2015/04/socialist-shill...solutions/

Either way I can only agree with them. Andreas is a tool and his evangelization and subsequent jerk-off following on reddit make me sick.


At least at this point, Andreas remains fairly well respected in a large number of bitcoin circles. Surely, there is going to be some mudslinging towards quasi-public figures, and in this regard, Andreas remains outspoken in several regards.


Ultimately when these kinds of contrary stories occur within varying public circles (sometimes backed up with fairly convincing evidence), each of us needs to take with a grain of salt these various representations that have potential for bias and/or self-dealings... and then come to our own conclusions the extent that we are going to trust certain sources, and which sources we want to trust.

I don't feel any expertise in this regard, or any deep knowledge regarding the comings and goings of Andreas - nonetheless, I will continue to keep my eyes and ears open regarding whether his message seems valid or whether he is experiencing ad hominem attacks.

You should consider reading this if you havent : http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/...world.html

A good primer on a rather unconventional outlook on Bitcoin but one that might happen to be more in line with reality than the typical expectations and aspirations you would usually find on reddit, andreas, btctalk.

Try to make an effort not to be offended by the tone as you should expect to wander around some sobering opinions but you will also find valuable insights.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2015 07:38 PM by brg444.)
07-30-2015 07:19 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-26-2015 12:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  SunW. Seems like you have a tendency to get caught up in irrelevant shit, in advising guys.

I have no interest in advising anyone. I am curious why someone would think that BTC will hit a price of $10K in 2016. They either have good reasons or they don't. If my stated position is wrong, I want to be the first person to know so that I can correct immediately. Do you know how much money you can make/prevent losing from recognizing that you're wrong about something? A lot. You posted an argument possibly in favor of this by comparing the market caps of gold vs. bitcoin.

What you're interpreting as an argument is nothing of the sort. It's understanding.

Quote:You are correct that no one is buying bitcoin at the moment because they do NOT recognize the value or see the upside potential in comparison with the rich. However, as price goes up, more and more people begin to buy, and the increase in price can create its own upward momentum, that will NOT necessarily be rational while it is going on. For example, if there is a loss of confidence in other investments and their ability to hold value, in those cases, btc can become the go to point because currently it remains capable of absorbing such increases in value.

People do not recognize the value of bitcoin when gold is $500 an ounce, silver is $5 an ounce, 30YTs are yielding 5%, and the developing stock markets have fallen 80%?

There's no need to be defensive or hurt; this is what we're all getting at in these discussions - seeing the world that all of us are picturing and why. I'm assuming that most people in this thread are like me - we want to gather as much facts as we can before deciding on something.
08-02-2015 04:00 PM
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The Bitcoin thread
China devalued the renminbi 2%, which may push back the Fed's interest rate hike, if they were planning to raise interest rates in September. The next month and half should be interesting for bitcoin.

Bitcoin didn't react to China's action.
08-11-2015 10:01 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-30-2015 07:19 PM)brg444 Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 06:06 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 12:46 PM)brg444 Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 06:07 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(07-29-2015 04:06 AM)BBinger Wrote:  I am very far from feeling down. What I mean by horrible information is the stupid BitcoinTalk and Reddit derps got replaced largely by the CoinDesk New York derps and the Silicon Valley/Y-Combinator derps.

Generally the people who look to "popular" or "mainstream" Bitcoin information sources tend to get fucked in the long run, because these sources are extensions of interests already well ensconced in fiat. Actual large bitcoin holders and interests have their own established circles and information sources.

The absolute worst source though is Andreas Derpopolis who for every bottle of truth blends an entire log of shit into his mix.

I'm NOT sure whether I understand your comment about Andreas.

Let's just say BBinger and his circle have some history with Andreas:

http://qntra.net/2015/04/socialist-shill...solutions/

Either way I can only agree with them. Andreas is a tool and his evangelization and subsequent jerk-off following on reddit make me sick.


At least at this point, Andreas remains fairly well respected in a large number of bitcoin circles. Surely, there is going to be some mudslinging towards quasi-public figures, and in this regard, Andreas remains outspoken in several regards.


Ultimately when these kinds of contrary stories occur within varying public circles (sometimes backed up with fairly convincing evidence), each of us needs to take with a grain of salt these various representations that have potential for bias and/or self-dealings... and then come to our own conclusions the extent that we are going to trust certain sources, and which sources we want to trust.

I don't feel any expertise in this regard, or any deep knowledge regarding the comings and goings of Andreas - nonetheless, I will continue to keep my eyes and ears open regarding whether his message seems valid or whether he is experiencing ad hominem attacks.

You should consider reading this if you havent : http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/...world.html

A good primer on a rather unconventional outlook on Bitcoin but one that might happen to be more in line with reality than the typical expectations and aspirations you would usually find on reddit, andreas, btctalk.

Try to make an effort not to be offended by the tone as you should expect to wander around some sobering opinions but you will also find valuable insights.

I've been so busy in the past week and a half, and finally I got around to reading the above suggested linked materials.

From your reference, BRG, I thought that the materials contained in that link were going to point out some doom and gloom fundamental technological dilemnas regarding bitcoin that were going to be deep and difficult to grasp to show the good and bad aspects of bitcoin.

However, in the end, instead the article describes a lot of bullish perspectives about bitcoin and shoots down public misconceptions that already has me as a convert to those similar ideas.

In other words, I am already within the school of thought that bitcoin is going to blow our minds and continue to blow our minds with its continued paradigm shifting impacts on the world in a large variety of ways.

Regarding tone, I am NOT bothered by the tone, and as I already suggested, I read the article as overall bullish and optimistic about bitcoin and referring to and attempting to shoot down a variety of popular misconceptions regarding bitcoin.
08-11-2015 11:26 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-02-2015 04:00 PM)SunW Wrote:  
(07-26-2015 12:40 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  SunW. Seems like you have a tendency to get caught up in irrelevant shit, in advising guys.

I have no interest in advising anyone. I am curious why someone would think that BTC will hit a price of $10K in 2016. They either have good reasons or they don't. If my stated position is wrong, I want to be the first person to know so that I can correct immediately. Do you know how much money you can make/prevent losing from recognizing that you're wrong about something? A lot. You posted an argument possibly in favor of this by comparing the market caps of gold vs. bitcoin.

What you're interpreting as an argument is nothing of the sort. It's understanding.

Quote:You are correct that no one is buying bitcoin at the moment because they do NOT recognize the value or see the upside potential in comparison with the rich. However, as price goes up, more and more people begin to buy, and the increase in price can create its own upward momentum, that will NOT necessarily be rational while it is going on. For example, if there is a loss of confidence in other investments and their ability to hold value, in those cases, btc can become the go to point because currently it remains capable of absorbing such increases in value.

People do not recognize the value of bitcoin when gold is $500 an ounce, silver is $5 an ounce, 30YTs are yielding 5%, and the developing stock markets have fallen 80%?

I have NO reason to argue in any detail with you regarding your experiences and perspective and your attempts to prioritize certain financial principles as tools that may have assisted you and potentially could resonate with some other RVF guys.

In that regard, you certainly have a right to share your perspective, and certainly, there is NOT even much of any need for me to say that, except, possibly, for the sake of clarification.

More or less, I have already said what I intended to say about your seeming tendencies to get into what appears to be advisory posts, and I suppose that there is NOTHING wrong with that in any major way when guys are looking for advice of some sort.

But, in any event, I frequently personally find when guys get into such an "advisory" disposition, they begin to become patronizing and disrespectful of the knowledge and experiences of other guys when the perspectives of other guys differ from their own.

Possibly, there could be some perspective differences between you and some of the posters who are bullish about bitcoin, and I might wager that some of the difference has to do with your seeming tendency (at least from my perspective) to be striving to frame and/or categorize bitcoin in terms of a commodity and to attempt to categorize it too closely with some other commodities and comparing and contrasting in a kind of misplaced concreteness, which seems to result in inadequate and insufficient summaries regarding what is bitcoin.

In the past approximately 21 months, I have been posting quite a few volumes of textual messages within this thread regarding my thoughts on bitcoin, investing and even going with the flow with some other tangential topics that may or may not be related to bitcoin.

In spite of my ongoing study and monitoring of bitcoin, I do NOT purport to be any kind of real expert in Bitcoin, except maybe to suggest to some people that I have been studying it for longer than them. Additionally, I strive NOT to make any meaningful attempts at summarizing bitcoin as a whole or various aspects of Bitcoin that would attempt to predict certain directions in its success or failure based on market movements.

Whether you are making attempts at such success or failure of bitcoin doesn't really seem to matter too much in the whole scheme of things because in the end, guys in this thread are posting about a variety of perspectives that also include their personal experiences and perceptions and sometimes attempting to develop better understandings of the world of bitcoin and related topics through their posts and their reading of posts in this thread.





(08-02-2015 04:00 PM)SunW Wrote:  There's no need to be defensive or hurt; this is what we're all getting at in these discussions - seeing the world that all of us are picturing and why. I'm assuming that most people in this thread are like me - we want to gather as much facts as we can before deciding on something.

I doubt that I am getting defensive or hurt by your posts, so I do NOT see much point to label my posts as such. Nonetheless, it seems that we agree at least on the idea that through posts in this thread several of us are attempting to share information in order to be better informed on the topic(s) related to bitcoin. That may call for a virtual hug. hahahaha. NO gay.
08-11-2015 11:51 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #2171
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-11-2015 10:01 AM)SunW Wrote:  China devalued the renminbi 2%, which may push back the Fed's interest rate hike, if they were planning to raise interest rates in September. The next month and half should be interesting for bitcoin.

Bitcoin didn't react to China's action.


What does that mean for bitcoin? prices are going up or down in the coming months?

My sense is usually that if there are perceptions of NO real safe haven for the preservation of value in various forms of fiat (such as the dollar or other currencies or assets) then BTC prices will go up.

On the other hand, if there are perceptions of strength in other assets, such as the dollar or even other storage of value, then BTC prices will NOT go up... and may even go down... but this correlation may NOT be exact or direct because there are a lot of politics and a lot of variables that affect public perception of value, including movement in the value that causes additional attention at the value of an asset continuing to go in whatever direction that it is going, especially if its price begins to spike in one direction or another.
08-11-2015 11:57 PM
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Post: #2172
RE: The Bitcoin thread
(07-28-2015 07:22 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  No one has posted this cyber fund rating yet in this thread; https://cyber.fund/

I find it interesting. For those who've been in the thread for awhile might remember that I've been speaking about the flaws in bitcoin before and to be they just seems to get harder and harder to ignore. I feel like I'm living in the stone age every time I'm waiting for a block to conform my transaction, to be honest. The huge blockchain and the waste of energy is just two other things that makes the bitcoin protocol look outdated. I believe that some other technology will be superior to bitcoin in the future. There is already today other protocols which are better, however they're not that much better that they will replace bitcoin.

Still I've been buying bitcoins in February, April, May, and my last coin bough was on the last of June at the price of around $255. Won't buy any more from now, one less the price goes down again. Made some money on a LTC short too, but that one is dangerous. Completely unpredictable.


Edit; this link explain the ratings; https://blog.cyber.fund/releasing-the-ra...ea0733b893

Agree with you!
08-12-2015 07:28 AM
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SunW Offline
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Post: #2173
The Bitcoin thread
(08-11-2015 11:57 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(08-11-2015 10:01 AM)SunW Wrote:  China devalued the renminbi 2%, which may push back the Fed's interest rate hike, if they were planning to raise interest rates in September. The next month and half should be interesting for bitcoin.

Bitcoin didn't react to China's action.


What does that mean for bitcoin? prices are going up or down in the coming months?

It means we'll see how the market reacts to the devaluation in the bitcoin market. The Chinese CB can devalue the remninbi, they can't devalue bitcoin.

China devalued again last night, which pushed the US stock markets down (good!), which in turn has caused the dollar to fall because traders now expect that the Fed won't raise interest rates. This morning, gold, silver and oil are up - we'll see if this holds. If China devalues more, at some point, we may see the Fed do QE4 and then it will really get interesting for bitcoin.
08-12-2015 08:27 AM
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ovo Offline
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Post: #2174
RE: The Bitcoin thread
Used to have a fair amount of Bitcoins last year. Sold most of them for a nice profit, and now I'm still holding about 0,75 BTC. Think I'm just going to hold it forever since its only worth $200 at this time. In 10 years it might be a major online currency, who knows.

Blog - Coding Basics - Big Brand Boys
08-13-2015 06:45 AM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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RE: The Bitcoin thread
(08-13-2015 06:45 AM)ovo Wrote:  Used to have a fair amount of Bitcoins last year. Sold most of them for a nice profit, and now I'm still holding about 0,75 BTC. Think I'm just going to hold it forever since its only worth $200 at this time. In 10 years it might be a major online currency, who knows.


I just looked at the price, and even though your stash is worth about $200, 1 BTC is worth about $265.

Bitcoin is already making a lot of progress in a lot of areas, and therefore, it already can be used in a lot of ways as an online currency. Surely, work needs to be done, but it has come a long ways in the last couple years to become much more liquid and much more attainable without so many efforts as it had been more more difficult to obtain in years past and in its earlier days.

In fact, it seems that currently, bitcoin is much more capable of sustaining and securing a $1,200 price point, compared with November/December 2013 when it hit such price points.
08-13-2015 10:25 AM
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