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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Trumpian Offline
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Post: #6826
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
So Bitcoin is sitting at $6195 right now. I don't follow it that closely but that seems on the low end of average in recent months. A good time to buy in?
09-09-2018 03:31 AM
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Post: #6827
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Yes the bears seem exhausted, they cannot send bitcoin below 6k and now trying to tank ETH and other alts.
09-09-2018 04:54 AM
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Post: #6828
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-09-2018 04:54 AM)Giacomo Casanova Wrote:  Yes the bears seem exhausted, they cannot send bitcoin below 6k and now trying to tank ETH and other alts.

Seems to be a decent level of success in tanking various alts, and fairly interesting if you look at bitcoin's year long performance compared to the various alts - and some of them you cannot look at for a longer than a year period, because they have not been on exchanges for the next period of time in various apps, (2years).

There is a certain amount of momentum that is involved in dumping (tanking) a coin because when the price begins to fall a lot, weak hands get shaken, and people begin to see their other projects (shit coins built upon shit coins) go down in value, and dump gets extended and more intensive, yet probably it is too soon to write off those various alts, despite their ongoing and seeming continued suffering.

Some of that dump value is going into fiat, but some of it seems likely to be going into bitcoin, too.
09-09-2018 03:18 PM
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redbeard Offline
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Post: #6829
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  Holy shit, it has hit nearly 60USD. This is madness.
.

Good times.
09-09-2018 08:29 PM
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Post: #6830
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-09-2018 08:29 PM)redbeard Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  Holy shit, it has hit nearly 60USD. This is madness.
.

Good times.

Well the excitedness of a BTC price upsurge is frequently amazing - and lots of money can be made during those kinds of BTC price upsurge times, as long as guys like us have some stake in the BTC game.

On the other hand, since we are NOT currently in a BTC price upsurge, there can be a lot of pain and confusion - even confusion from folks who had invested in altcoins, buying into the propaganda that bitcoin is grandpa and that they had been investing in a kind of bitcoin 2.0.. but one year later, they are considering that perhaps, just perhaps bitcoin might have been a better investment than they had previously considered. .especially if there would have been consideration given to both UPSIDE and DOWNSIDE potential and a lot of the alts are experiencing GREAT downside in recent times... perhaps dragging a bit on bitcoin.. but providing some confidence to some folks regarding how this seemingly shorter term situation might causing some fuel for another upsurge (which ones are going to come with, which ones?)

Funny thing, too, is that some folks bought into alts based on unit price, and sometimes thinking that bitcoin is too expensive.. but some of those other cheap coins might end up seeing penny prices based on the lack of soundness of their monetary set ups, as compared with bitcoin (which includes some lack of transparency too, regarding their actual supply and various other attempts at market cap manipulations and other manipulations that cause false hype and contribute to greater price deflation, when it comes.. in times like these.).

So the current pattern seems to be that altcoins are dropping much faster than bitcoin and perhaps dragging bitcoin down to some extent. Bitcoin remains in a kind of consolidation range, and it could break through to the downside or to the upside.

It is difficult to predict which way bitcoin is going to break, and certainly seems that the odds of breaking upwards would be low in current market conditions, but never say never in bitcoinlandia.... because sometimes, in BTC, the price will move the exact opposite of what the majority of the market seems to be believing that it is going to go.. and perhaps that is another way of fueling some of the BIGGER players in their attempts at manipulation and to make money along the way, when they are able to.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2018 01:40 AM by JayJuanGee.)
09-10-2018 01:19 AM
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Post: #6831
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-09-2018 03:31 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  So Bitcoin is sitting at $6195 right now. I don't follow it that closely but that seems on the low end of average in recent months. A good time to buy in?

I would wait if I were you. Looking at the weekly chart: The 6k level is being tested for the 4th, arguably the 5th time. As such, it is very likely to break down heavily and suddenly make 5k a ceiling. Putting you in a losing position without hope of breaking even anytime soon.
09-10-2018 11:56 AM
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Post: #6832
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-10-2018 01:19 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 08:29 PM)redbeard Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  Holy shit, it has hit nearly 60USD. This is madness.
.

Good times.

So the current pattern seems to be that altcoins are dropping much faster than bitcoin and perhaps dragging bitcoin down to some extent. Bitcoin remains in a kind of consolidation range, and it could break through to the downside or to the upside.

It is difficult to predict which way bitcoin is going to break, and certainly seems that the odds of breaking upwards would be low in current market conditions, but never say never in bitcoinlandia.... because sometimes, in BTC, the price will move the exact opposite of what the majority of the market seems to be believing that it is going to go.. and perhaps that is another way of fueling some of the BIGGER players in their attempts at manipulation and to make money along the way, when they are able to.
`

In general I agree. Most alts are likely to go to zero because they lack any serious use case. With regards to price moving up or down however, there are a lot of people hoping for prices to come back up. I don't mean to be the pessimist here, but I don't think BTC will bottom before Bitmain either goes belly up or IPO's successfully and/or guys like Novogratz and Tim Draper are forced to sell some of their holdings.
09-10-2018 01:21 PM
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Post: #6833
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-10-2018 11:56 AM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 03:31 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  So Bitcoin is sitting at $6195 right now. I don't follow it that closely but that seems on the low end of average in recent months. A good time to buy in?

I would wait if I were you. Looking at the weekly chart: The 6k level is being tested for the 4th, arguably the 5th time. As such, it is very likely to break down heavily and suddenly make 5k a ceiling. Putting you in a losing position without hope of breaking even anytime soon.


My opinion differs from yours, Bran, here. I suggest to anyone getting in to BTC to take a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 strategy, and I believe that I have described such strategy several times in this thread.

First take your extra cashflow for 6 months and your reserve investment stash and add them up and divide into 3.

1) first third invest right away (within a couple of weeks)

2) second third use to dollar cost average, divide by 26 and that is your weekly authorized amount.

3) third third buy on dips. Perhaps set incremental amounts every $300 down or every $500 or whatever makes you comfortable that you are not going to run out of cash to buy if the price goes down.

Such strategy should consider that BTC prices have already gone down around 70% so there are decent chances that the bottom is already in.. perhaps not but still decent chances.

If you feel over invested when you buy BTC, you can also sell small amounts on the way up to use to buy back if the price falls (I find that a lot of peeps do not want to sell on the way up when they are in their BTC accumulation phase).

(09-10-2018 01:21 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 01:19 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 08:29 PM)redbeard Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  Holy shit, it has hit nearly 60USD. This is madness.
.

Good times.

So the current pattern seems to be that altcoins are dropping much faster than bitcoin and perhaps dragging bitcoin down to some extent. Bitcoin remains in a kind of consolidation range, and it could break through to the downside or to the upside.

It is difficult to predict which way bitcoin is going to break, and certainly seems that the odds of breaking upwards would be low in current market conditions, but never say never in bitcoinlandia.... because sometimes, in BTC, the price will move the exact opposite of what the majority of the market seems to be believing that it is going to go.. and perhaps that is another way of fueling some of the BIGGER players in their attempts at manipulation and to make money along the way, when they are able to.
`

In general I agree. Most alts are likely to go to zero because they lack any serious use case.


I rarely attempt to predict the short-term price movements of any crypto market, including alts, even though we seem to have a bit of a downward trend here in alts.. and bitcoin seems to continue to consolidate, but I consider my statements to be more descriptive rather than predictive... even though long-term I believe that bitcoin is quite likely to absorb a large quantity of the value of either current alts or any future alts - likely 90% or more.... but it could take 20 to 50 years for this value absorption into bitcoin to play out.. so there remains a lot of potential to make a lot of money off the snake-oil misconceptions and misinformation, if you are into the gambling and scams of the alts.

(09-10-2018 01:21 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  With regards to price moving up or down however, there are a lot of people hoping for prices to come back up.

Sure a lot of people hope, and BIG money plays around too, and BIG money can push the price in one direction or another until they cannot push it anymore. Frequently pushing DOWN is easier than pushing UP but sometimes DOWN cannot be pushed anymore, and there is NO choice at that point but to go UP. Price movements can be complicated, and even whales might have a considerable amount of uncertainthy regarding how much they are able to push and how much of their own money that they want to spend in order to attempt to achieve their preferred price push direction.

The relatively illiquid nature of the alts are going to make them easier to push than bitcoin, and also some of the froth of their pie in the sky claims will also contribute to the ability to push them down, but in the end, we are talking about bitcoin here (in this thread), so it is not so clear how much the downward (whether temporarily or longer term) price pressures on alts is going to continue to affect BTC prices.. or at least keeping BTC prices consolidating or going down or if BTC would be able to go UP in spite of such downward pressures in those related areas?


(09-10-2018 01:21 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  I don't mean to be the pessimist here, but I don't think BTC will bottom before Bitmain either goes belly up or IPO's successfully

You have a right to your opinion and to express such opinions in this thread, and if you have been following bitcoin for any kind of extended period of time, you should realize that bitcoin does not give a ratt's ass about single entities here and there that might fail - including the MTGOX failure from last year that likely caught bitcoin in a more vulnerable place - yet bitcoin was able to recover in a decently short period of time after that fiasco (that is still playing out in terms of distributions of BTC and fiat).

Frequently people come out with these stupid-ass one entity scenarios to assert the demise and long term suppression of Bitcoin based on such narrow theories, including the Bitfinex situation from August 2016 - remember that one?

I would not completely deny your point that Bitmain remains a decently sized player in the bitcoin space and crypto as well, and even seemingly bcash more specifically, yet I doubt that short-term BTC price doom and gloom is anywhere near what you are seeming to imply it to be based on such assertions, even if you might happen to be correct, the outcome is no where near a given, as you seem to be asserting.


(09-10-2018 01:21 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  and/or guys like Novogratz and Tim Draper are forced to sell some of their holdings.

Now you are really going off the rails if you are suggesting that strong hands such as Novogratz are Draper are necessary targets... there are a whole hell of a lot of weaker hands who are going to sell way before those kind of guys. In other words, Novogratz and Draper are not selling and BTC is NOT going to such levels to cause them to sell. If guys like that do sell some BTC here and there, we are NOT going to know about it anyhow, so your suggestion that BTC price is not going to rebound until there is that level of blood in the streets seems to be hoping for way too much downfall...

Personally, I am buying all the way down into the 3 digits if we were to get there, but certainly support needs to break below $6k, $5k, $3k before we even get close to three digits.. and you seem to be filled with a lot of hopium if you believe $3k is going to break...

I prefer to take these supposed breaks of support one step at a time, and we will see what happens.. On a personal level, it seems to be prudent for guys to have buy orders at a lot of increments on the way down from here, rather than waiting for some kind of pie in the sky low number that is never reached, so in that regard, each of us should consider preparing for both down and up, and if you don't have any bitcoin at all, then it is likely a good idea to buy a bit now rather than waiting for some doom and gloom scenario, as suggested by Bran_Crypto (with a whole two posts coming into RVF to "warn us" and spread knowledge) that might not happen.
09-10-2018 04:15 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6834
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Even though this article is from April, I cannot recall whether I shared it, here.

https://blog.unchained-capital.com/bitco...3501d53f63

It has some pretty charts (including the one below), and seemingly decent HODL ideas. By the way, the charts are a bit more interactive within the actual article, as compared to my below picture of the chart.


[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2...8aY6TAuyUw]
09-10-2018 06:05 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #6835
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Here's an interesting trend to consider, and I should attribute to Raja_MBZ...


>>>>>>>
(6th) February:

Bitcoin: $106 Billion
Altcoins: $214 Billion

Today:

Bitcoin: $108 Billion (+1.75%)
Altcoins: $87 Billion (-60%)
<<<<<<

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=...sg45504463
09-10-2018 07:22 PM
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Post: #6836
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Seems like BTC has found some stability at roughly $6200. Anybody else tempted to buy in now?
09-12-2018 09:31 AM
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Pinocchio Offline
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Post: #6837
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-12-2018 09:31 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  Seems like BTC has found some stability at roughly $6200. Anybody else tempted to buy in now?

I'm waiting until the SEC make up their mind on the ETF.
09-12-2018 11:57 AM
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Post: #6838
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-10-2018 04:15 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Now you are really going off the rails if you are suggesting that strong hands such as Novogratz are Draper are necessary targets... there are a whole hell of a lot of weaker hands who are going to sell way before those kind of guys. In other words, Novogratz and Draper are not selling and BTC is NOT going to such levels to cause them to sell. If guys like that do sell some BTC here and there, we are NOT going to know about it anyhow, so your suggestion that BTC price is not going to rebound until there is that level of blood in the streets seems to be hoping for way too much downfall...

Personally, I am buying all the way down into the 3 digits if we were to get there, but certainly support needs to break below $6k, $5k, $3k before we even get close to three digits.. and you seem to be filled with a lot of hopium if you believe $3k is going to break...

I prefer to take these supposed breaks of support one step at a time, and we will see what happens.. On a personal level, it seems to be prudent for guys to have buy orders at a lot of increments on the way down from here, rather than waiting for some kind of pie in the sky low number that is never reached, so in that regard, each of us should consider preparing for both down and up, and if you don't have any bitcoin at all, then it is likely a good idea to buy a bit now rather than waiting for some doom and gloom scenario, as suggested by Bran_Crypto (with a whole two posts coming into RVF to "warn us" and spread knowledge) that might not happen.
I see we've stirred up some emotion in the thread, good. Smile

The point of my post was not so much "JayJuanGee (and the rest of the bulls) is wrong and here is why", but to point out that price moving lower, for longer than you imagine is definitely possible. Price tried to rise up from the 6k level several times before and failed every time, that doesn't look good. Personally, I would prefer to buy at 7k after a breakout with a higher probability that the bull market continues, than buy at 6300 or so with a high risk of this thing breaking down to 3K. To each his own of course.

Novogratz and Draper (I used these as standins for the proverbial billionare that bought BTC and/or alts) can definitely sell part of their holdings. Depending on the prices they bought at I imagine that BTC could be a significant part of their net worth, wouldn't you diversify? Mind you, that is assuming that they are skilled speculators that became billionares by there own skill. They might also be pretty average (although intelligent) guys with the right pedigree who got lucky. What do I know?

Aside from that, these guys invest others people's money. Whether they can hodl their BTC depends on the resolve of their clients, some of whom must surely break before this bear market comes to an end.

All in all, I don't think your strategy is bad. Definitely appropriate for people who have no investing or trading experience. What worries me though, is that it is pretty though to buy an asset, see it drop by more than half, and still have the courage to buy more. Especially when we're talking serious money.

If you bought a stock today, and it goes down by half, would you keep holding it? Why different for BTC?
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2018 03:49 PM by Bran_Crypto.)
09-12-2018 03:45 PM
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HD668B Offline
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Post: #6839
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Who else is running high to medium frequency arbitrage bots in crypto here? PM, lets network.
09-12-2018 07:09 PM
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BB1 Offline
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Post: #6840
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-12-2018 09:31 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  Seems like BTC has found some stability at roughly $6200. Anybody else tempted to buy in now?

I am seeing lots of confusion now among unsophisticated investors who have invested in crypto assets including Bitcoin.

If I were to be looking at buying this year, I would wait until they get to the despair stage.
09-13-2018 01:07 AM
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Post: #6841
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-10-2018 01:21 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 01:19 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(09-09-2018 08:29 PM)redbeard Wrote:  
(03-19-2013 06:02 PM)Cyclone Wrote:  Holy shit, it has hit nearly 60USD. This is madness.
.

Good times.

So the current pattern seems to be that altcoins are dropping much faster than bitcoin and perhaps dragging bitcoin down to some extent. Bitcoin remains in a kind of consolidation range, and it could break through to the downside or to the upside.

It is difficult to predict which way bitcoin is going to break, and certainly seems that the odds of breaking upwards would be low in current market conditions, but never say never in bitcoinlandia.... because sometimes, in BTC, the price will move the exact opposite of what the majority of the market seems to be believing that it is going to go.. and perhaps that is another way of fueling some of the BIGGER players in their attempts at manipulation and to make money along the way, when they are able to.
`

In general I agree. Most alts are likely to go to zero because they lack any serious use case. With regards to price moving up or down however, there are a lot of people hoping for prices to come back up. I don't mean to be the pessimist here, but I don't think BTC will bottom before Bitmain either goes belly up or IPO's successfully and/or guys like Novogratz and Tim Draper are forced to sell some of their holdings.

Listen to what Tone says at 1:15 about Tim Draper and the other big HODL'ers. It's a possibility that they're forced to dump. Let's hope not.



09-13-2018 08:28 AM
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Post: #6842
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  
(09-10-2018 04:15 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  [edited out]
I see we've stirred up some emotion in the thread, good. Smile

Why would you hope to stir up emotion? I am not conceding that you stirred up any emotion from me, but if you come into the thread and make bold predictions, especially to the bearish side – and really without providing much evidence, then you are likely going to get a response.


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  The point of my post was not so much "JayJuanGee (and the rest of the bulls) is wrong and here is why",

O.k. So you joined RVF, and you posted in this thread because you want to edumacate RVF members (and the public through the RVF thread) about BTC? Seems to me that you are not known and you have provided skant support for your various speculations that have already been made many times in this thread over the years (and seemingly at opportune times), and furthermore, you have not provided information about yourself, your BTC or other crypto positions (if any), nor have you posted in any other RVF thread. Maybe you have a bit of a burden to establish some of these things, no?


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  but to point out that price moving lower, for longer than you imagine is definitely possible.

First of all: How the fuck do you know the direction of the BTC price, and the duration of that price direction, second, you seem to be presuming a lot if you are supposedly more knoweldgeable than others about these kinds of points that you are making, and third, most folks are going to understand that markets (including crypto, including BTC) can move in directions that are against their position and irrationally for longer than they expected or are able to stay solvent. Anyhow, a large majority of RVF guys already know these kinds of things regarding markets, regarding crypto and regarding BTC, so how are you educating us on these points, besides seeming to desire provocation, as you already admitted to?


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Price tried to rise up from the 6k level several times before and failed every time, that doesn't look good.

Your way of framing the BTC price dynamic issue seems to presume the answer that you would like to reach. You are suggesting that BTC price is continuing to struggle to get above certain price points.

You can also view (or frame) the situation as an ongoing attempt to break BTC to go below $6k and to stay there - while bearwhales continue to have difficulties to get the BTC price to go below $6k and to stay there... even with the other calamities in crypto with alt coins price plummeting, there continues to be ongoing difficulties from bears to get the BTC price to go and to stay below $6k. No?

I am NOT suggesting that the bearwhales are not going to be successful, at some point, to bring BTC prices below $6k, but I am suggesting that your framework about failure to go up seems to biased in a kind of wishful down (or predicting down assertion).. which may or may not happen to any degree close to what you seem to be prognosticating.


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Personally, I would prefer to buy at 7k after a breakout with a higher probability that the bull market continues,

Yeah, of course, disingenuous posters and trolls frequently try to make these kinds of "wish the price would go up" assertions while they are spreading doom and gloom predictions, to bash on Bitcoin, to pump some other coin, or perhaps to support a short that they have already taken.

I might be an ongoing bitcoin bull, yet rarely are you going to find posts from me, in this thread, or any other bitcoin thread that attempts to give much greater than a 60% assessment of the odds of BTC price movement in any one direction, and surely I will admit that I tend to lean towards UP because I remain bullish about BTC long term and have strategies to continue to buy if the price goes down… anyhow, my strategy is largely already known.. so my strategy is not so much the point, except to suggest that I am NOT making any large moves to bet in either direction because I continue to believe that it is difficult to know for sure about short term price directions – except in the longer term, I remain bullish, so I don’t see any kind of major problem for guys to tailor their investment approach (at any time) to assign decent probabilities that BTC is going UP in the long term.. even though it could take several years, depending on where you start to invest, and nothing is guaranteed, even though the odds for long term UP seem good.

(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  than buy at 6300 or so with a high risk of this thing breaking down to 3K. To each his own of course.

Yes, of course, there is a risk that BTC price might go down and there is a risk that the price might go up, and assessment of that risk is going to vary from guy to guy. We all know that the price already came down, about 70%, so seems a bit short sighted to be engaged in a selling strategy at this time, and a HODL and buy strategy seems more prudent….. but like you said, to each his own.

There could not really be any predetermined plan where the BTC price is going to go, and each guy can weigh his buy, sell, hold strategy based on his view of the risk based on the totality of circumstances and also assess his strategy based on other considerations, too, including his financial situation and timeline.

I know some guys like to take short term gambles, and I continuously am attempting to advocate a kind of longer term investment plan… which some guys are not going to be comfortable identifying with plan like mine, which I consider to be on the more conservative side. Actually, I have reviewed other BTC investment plans that are even more conservative than mine (such as limiting total investment to 2% of your investment portfolio into BTC), so I think that a plan like mine is less conservative, yet even a conservative plan like mine has brought really great returns to me over the years, and I expect that it has decent chances to continue to return well, even for guys that are either starting today or they are still in a BTC accumulation status that might even see their current BTC holdings to be a bit in the red.

NO matter what the guys position, sometimes he does need to reconsider and tweak, tweak and tweak, but I doubt that making any large moves to sell at these prices and to buy back lower would be prudent, but sometimes guys will reasonably come to those kinds of decisions based on their maybe making some mistakes, such as overinvesting.


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Novogratz and Draper (I used these as standins for the proverbial billionare that bought BTC and/or alts) can definitely sell part of their holdings.

Ok. I responded to you once on this point, but after I reviewed the YouTube reference from redbeard, it appears that you are arguing, almost point for point what Tone Vays says in that part of the video.

Sure, I could give you the benefit of the doubt that you are formulating your own ideas, but even Tone Vays is less than convincing in the way that he asserts that a large number of folks have to feel maximum pain before the market is going to be ready to go up. That’s ridiculous.

There are all kinds of BTC price correction possibilities, and even though I agree with a lot of the assessments that Tone Vays makes, sometimes, he is either wrong or he is overstating a certain kind of case that may not end up playing out, as he is predicting (arguing).

Certainly, you have not provided better arguments and or evidence than Tone Vays, and like I said Tone Vays seems to saying a bit more than he can support in that referred to segment. By the way, Tone Vays is on the air a lot, so sometimes you have to expect that he is going to either be wrong in some of his assessments or that he might overstate the case from time to time… but even h gives various scenarios in which he would consider the bottom to be “in.”

And, you, instead of making some kind of argument about various possible scenarios, you seem to be attempting to argue and predict 1) the bottom is not in and 2) there is going to be a prolonged bear market – neither of which you have provided much support or evidence for such assertions and redbeard seems to have provided a likely source for how you got to your framing your conclusions (whether you heard Tone present directly or you got your information from someone who was spouting out similar ideas to Tone).



(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Depending on the prices they bought at I imagine that BTC could be a significant part of their net worth, wouldn't you diversify?

Yes, situations vary, and of course, rich people are already going to be diversified before they get into these kinds of knowingly volatile investments. Neither Novogratz nor Draper are going to be oblivious to these kinds of needs to diversify, and it is quite patronizing to imply that they are novices or inclined to make novice mistakes. Even Tone makes assertions about their possible fiduciary obligations to shareholders or investors, and then states that he does not know any particulars.

And, get the fuck out of here if you are making any kind of speculation about compelling needs that they have to perform.. blah blah blah..

For example, think about Tim Draper, he bought a shitload of BTC in the $600s pursuant to a Federal auction (silk road coins, I think), so those particular coins were in the red for nearly two years (from mid 2014 to late 2016), and during that down time people were speculating about what a fucking dumb thing for him to buy all those auctioned BTC.. blah blah blah… so yeah, now the coins are around 10x, but they could have been more than 30x at $18k and above, but so fucking what? These guys are making long term investments, and they are riding out the waves.. maybe they shave a bit here and there when the price goes up and they might buy a bit here and there when the price goes down, and we don’t really know the details of their holdings and practices, unless they choose to provide some of those kinds of specifics.

Remember my point would be that the gambler and the emotional traders will be way more likely to jump out on the way the prices are going down than rich folks like those generalized by you and your pie in the sky desire to button push speculations…. Gamblers and emotional traders are likely to be smaller traders too, and they are more likely to have bought when the price was going up (between $14k and $19k perhaps) and to buy into FUD and perhaps sell in these price territories (which may well be the bottom or close to it?)


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Mind you, that is assuming that they are skilled speculators that became billionares by there own skill. They might also be pretty average (although intelligent) guys with the right pedigree who got lucky. What do I know?

Well, none of us really know, and to attempt to particularize them too much seems to lead into starworshiping irrelevance, rather than focusing on more relevant factors and indicators that may indicate BTC price direction.. or at least give some clues that are probabilistic at best

(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Aside from that, these guys invest others people's money. Whether they can hodl their BTC depends on the resolve of their clients, some of whom must surely break before this bear market comes to an end.

Yes, Tone speculated about this quasi-irrelevance too, and your going on about it seems to indicate that you either got that information from him directly or some other person that was speculating based on what Tone said.

(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  All in all, I don't think your strategy is bad.

Of course, my strategy works and it works for me because I tailorized it for me. What is your strategy besides talking about it, if any?


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Definitely appropriate for people who have no investing or trading experience.

My strategy can be appropriate whether you have trading experience or not. Lot’s of people get fucked when they try to trade and to predict the market, and as you seemed to have surmised, I am not attempting to make such predictions, and I am not going to alter my strategy based on views like yours and other negative nancy naysayers who are spouting out bad information without really backing it up… We have been in that kind of situation several times, and maybe the time to buy is shown when more newbie peeps like you start coming into the thread and arguing your vague nonsubstantiated doomsday baloney.


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  What worries me though, is that it is pretty though to buy an asset, see it drop by more than half, and still have the courage to buy more. Especially when we're talking serious money.


What are you talking about? Are you making up a hypothetical person that does not exist? Sure there may be guys who bought on the way up, and have not done anything because they are afraid and the price halved. Now you want them to sell? Probably, a better recommendation would be to hold or to buy, but of course, they can choose their strategy and reassess the situation, and selling seems to be what the gamblers want you to do in order that you sell at the bottom or near the bottom. Right?


(09-12-2018 03:45 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  If you bought a stock today, and it goes down by half, would you keep holding it? Why different for BTC?

Of course it depends on the stock and it depends on your strategy regarding that stock. You could buy the stock and continue to dollar cost average buy the stock if you believe in the long run it is going to perform.

BTC is different because it is a paradigm changing technology, so if you do not know what you are buying, then perhaps it would be good to study into while you dollar cost average buy…and don’t invest more than you can afford to lose, and create a strategy that is based upon your own finances, view of bitcoin, risk tolerance, timeline and tweak your strategy from time to time.
09-13-2018 08:29 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-13-2018 08:28 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Listen to what Tone says at 1:15 about Tim Draper and the other big HODL'ers. It's a possibility that they're forced to dump. Let's hope not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvBh1rAi...&t=1h15m8s

Thanks for that video link. It seems to be nearly exactly the same kind of argument that Bran_Crypto is making, and surely Tone has a lot more credibility in the Bitcoin space - including credibility with a large number of Bitcoin maximalists.

I watched the whole video, including the news articles discussion with Saifedean, and in the referred to part, with just Tone at at 1 hour 15 minutes , Tone seems to be overstepping his statement a bit in the context of talking about Draper and Novogratz.

Tone is making an argument about how much pain is required before the BTC price can resume going up after this correction and when he presumes the bottom will be in, and Tone just seems to go too far with his assertions that Draper or Novogratz might be forced to sell BTC or some baloney speculation in that direction that Tone even concedes to be based on a lack of knowledge about their specifics.. and even a lack of particularization of various scenarios in which sufficient pain has been suffered and the BTC market is ready to resume up.. (also known as no more weak hands to shake).
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09-13-2018 08:36 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(08-17-2018 04:48 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  
(08-17-2018 04:21 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Below is a link to an article from today, in which the author is suggesting that it could take another 4 years for this "bear market" to resolve itself.

https://www.learningslowly.co/behavioura...n-recovery

That might be true, but it might not be true. It is also possible that the bottom is already in. We have all these supposed "bear market" experts, when in fact we may not have even entered into a bear market yet, but instead be in the midst of a 8-10 month price correction. Perhaps? Perhaps?

When it comes to Bitcoin price predictions I continue to rely heavily on hype cycle theory, which seems rather iron-clad now that we've had six cycles in the near-decade since Bitcoin has been around.

Once is an event, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern, but SIX is something you can bet the house on. If you're looking to buy Bitcoin, now is the time to start paying attention.

If people adopt Bitcoin just like they've adopted all other technologies throughout the last ~100 years (and I see no reason this would not be the case, as human nature is unchanging), then the next ten years should see roughly triple the growth of the last ten:

[Image: 0*E4eb7wxHinGNdYQq.]

It's almost something of a cliche at this point, but institutional money is absolutely coming. Nearly all the 2018 news has fundamentally been bullish, and a large chunk of that news has centered around how big money is just waiting for regulatory clarity and institutional infrastructure (custody, liquidity, operational, etc.) to be built. Much of that infrastructure is either in place already or will be by the end of the year, and meanwhile Bitcoin continues to improve, both as a protocol and as an ecosystem.

That's not to say that we're going to turn right around and hit $50k next month...most bear markets need time to unwind and consolidate before a new rally starts up. My guess is that either $6k is the bottom or we bottom out between $4.5k-5k sometime within the next few weeks and then consolidate in a range until early 2019.

And sure, there are plenty of macroeconomic black swans that could absolutely devastate the (arguably) most speculative asset class in existence right now. But assuming we don't see nuclear war or a once-in-a-millennium solar flare, I think Bitcoin adoption has hit the "elbow" in the exponential adoption curve and accelerating growth will only continue compounding from here.

Below is a link to a great Twitter thread describing how one might attempt to identify the bottom of this market cycle. If you don't have the time/patience/experience for that, my recommendation would be to start dollar cost averaging and to do so over the next 3-6 months.

If you want to put $1,000 into Bitcoin, for example, buying $10/day for the next 100 days practically ensures you'll scrape the bottom. I know Coinbase provides automatic purchasing schedules; not sure if Robinhood or other exchanges do. I'd shop around and compare fees before starting just in case.


I recall that several previous times, IsaacJ had raised questions about custody concerns in crypto, and it seems that Bitgo has made progress in that direction, in getting custody approval in one state (starting in South Dakota, who would have thunk?)

https://www.coindesk.com/bitgo-receives-...to-assets/
09-13-2018 09:02 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-13-2018 08:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(09-13-2018 08:28 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Listen to what Tone says at 1:15 about Tim Draper and the other big HODL'ers. It's a possibility that they're forced to dump. Let's hope not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvBh1rAi...&t=1h15m8s

Thanks for that video link. It seems to be nearly exactly the same kind of argument that Bran_Crypto is making, and surely Tone has a lot more credibility in the Bitcoin space - including credibility with a large number of Bitcoin maximalists.

I watched the whole video, including the news articles discussion with Saifedean, and in the referred to part, with just Tone at at 1 hour 15 minutes , Tone seems to be overstepping his statement a bit in the context of talking about Draper and Novogratz.

Tone is making an argument about how much pain is required before the BTC price can resume going up after this correction and when he presumes the bottom will be in, and Tone just seems to go too far with his assertions that Draper or Novogratz might be forced to sell BTC or some baloney speculation in that direction that Tone even concedes to be based on a lack of knowledge about their specifics.. and even a lack of particularization of various scenarios in which sufficient pain has been suffered and the BTC market is ready to resume up.. (also known as no more weak hands to shake).

My take is there are still many weak hands to shake.

It's widely believed that bear markets end on bad news - when you have an event that is so negative it wipes out holders of last resort in a fast, quick, price drop.

Following Tone's hypothesis, IF one of the major BTC bulls (like Draper) are forced to sell, there could be massive MSM outrage, giving us our "bad news" to end the bear market.

All speculating of course, but it's something to think about.
09-14-2018 08:37 AM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-14-2018 01:52 AM)joynguyen97 Wrote:  Is BITCOIN still available now?

Can you elaborate on your question? Maybe explain what you believe bitcoin is, and from where you are getting your information in order to ask your question, which seems to be based on poor information about even the basics of what bitcoin is.
09-14-2018 01:18 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-14-2018 08:37 AM)redbeard Wrote:  
(09-13-2018 08:36 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  
(09-13-2018 08:28 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Listen to what Tone says at 1:15 about Tim Draper and the other big HODL'ers. It's a possibility that they're forced to dump. Let's hope not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvBh1rAi...&t=1h15m8s

Thanks for that video link. It seems to be nearly exactly the same kind of argument that Bran_Crypto is making, and surely Tone has a lot more credibility in the Bitcoin space - including credibility with a large number of Bitcoin maximalists.

I watched the whole video, including the news articles discussion with Saifedean, and in the referred to part, with just Tone at at 1 hour 15 minutes , Tone seems to be overstepping his statement a bit in the context of talking about Draper and Novogratz.

Tone is making an argument about how much pain is required before the BTC price can resume going up after this correction and when he presumes the bottom will be in, and Tone just seems to go too far with his assertions that Draper or Novogratz might be forced to sell BTC or some baloney speculation in that direction that Tone even concedes to be based on a lack of knowledge about their specifics.. and even a lack of particularization of various scenarios in which sufficient pain has been suffered and the BTC market is ready to resume up.. (also known as no more weak hands to shake).

My take is there are still many weak hands to shake.

Your ultimate conclusion that there are more weak hands to shake out could be correct, but you seem to even imply that you are making a kind of gut assessment and that there might be a certain amount of information out there that is not sufficiently known by you in order to really be sure about your assessment.

Certainly, both the crypto space and the bitcoin space has become more complicated in the past 5 years, and I believe that one of the most fair comparisons that is being made is bitcoin 2013 as compared with bitcoin 2018 and a central question remains whether bitcoin is in a kind of early 2013 like scenario or a late 2013 like scenario with our current BTC price correction since late 2017.

Part of the difficulties in assessing market/price dynamics has to do with the stupendous growth of the altcoin space, which is not bitcoin directly, but certainly has direct and indirect effects on BTC price dynamics.

So, it could be that there are weak hands in bitcoin, but it also could be that the weak hands are being shook from the altcoin space and merely having effects on bitcoin that pull in both direction… One direction is that some folks get out of alts and put that money into bitcoin, but another direction is that some of these folks completely lose confidence in crypto and they do not put their crypto money in bitcoin , but instead move it to fiat or some other investment (such as traditional investments).

Each of us can watch and watch and watch the dynamics and attempt to figure out what is going on and come to conclusions or even tentative conclusions, but if we are being honest with ourselves we have to admit that we really do not know and based on the relatively small size of the bitcoin market, even relatively small players in terms of fiat can come into the space and disproportionately cause the BTC price to go up.. and the longer that bitcoin does not break below $6k can cause those BIGGER players to become more confident in bitcoin and to cause the BTC price to go UP, even while a large number of technically trained folks are saying that the technical are telling them that the BTC price is going down.

Even though it appears that alt coins are currently getting slaughtered worse than bitcoin, I have neither written them off nor concluded that this is the time in which they are really going down.

Sure there is a lot going on in the alt coin market, so it remains quite difficult to determine whether their death knell is being chimed in a conclusive way, so there remains 1) a kind of gut determination to attempt to figure out how much they have to get hurt before their prices can go back up, and 2) the amount to which bitcoin’s price performance is going to be connected with their fate.

It remains my opinion that there are too many unknowns and unknowables to really have confidence that more significant down is coming for bitcoin within our current price range – which could be argued to be as broad as $5,700 to $8,500, yet some folks may want to become bitcoin bullish at lower thresholds – and I am not that willing to believe that the bottom is in until we get into the $10k testing territory.. but perhaps I am a bit more conservative in that respect?





(09-14-2018 08:37 AM)redbeard Wrote:  It's widely believed that bear markets end on bad news - when you have an event that is so negative it wipes out holders of last resort in a fast, quick, price drop.

First of all, I think that the very definition of holders of last resort is that they are not selling, even if the price goes to zero, so I believe that your framing of what is necessary for the price direction to reverse is a bit overstated…

Second, I think that it maks a difference whether this situation is considered as a price correction.. that recovers more quickly or a more drug out bear market. Personally, even though the situation might seem dire, we are only about 9 months into the correction, which could cause the dynanmic to go either way. Surely, you could assume that we are getting more downwards BTC price movements from here, but such further material and negative downwards BTC price movements from here is far from a given.


(09-14-2018 08:37 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Following Tone's hypothesis, IF one of the major BTC bulls (like Draper) are forced to sell, there could be massive MSM outrage, giving us our "bad news" to end the bear market.

All speculating of course, but it's something to think about.

O.k. I guess I get the point, but Draper is likely NOT a good example for someone who is likely to sell or be forced to sell; however, I understand that there could be some folks in a similar situation that are either forced to sell or come to the conclusion that the most rationale decision is to sell all or some of their stash.

I still believe that it is erroneous to conclude that we need one more BIG bang before we are ready to resume UP or to confirm that the bottom is in – but surely there are moments when such things happen in which it becomes more clear that the bottom is in.. and the silk road event of September 2013 was one of those – but even with that, sometimes you are not going to know when the bottom is in and when it reversed or what caused it to reverse.

Late 2015, can be considered as an example. We had $250-ish prices for most of the year, but we really could not be too confident that we were out of the bear market until about May 2016 – and even then, there was ambiguity in August 2016 with the Bitfinex hack and late 2016/early 2017 with the forkening and BIG BLOCKER bullshit. Part of my point, is that you can get a kind of late 2015 recovery that continues to trickle up and trickle up largely based on the fact that there are more buyers than sellers and bearwhales are having troubles getting the price to go below certain price thresholds ( a)they could not get it to go below $200 in 2014/2015; b) they could not get it to go below $300 in early 2016; c) they could not get it to go below $500 after May 2016 and d) they could not get it to go below $1k in 2017).

There may be some additional examples, and we could be in that kind of frame again, perhaps regarding difficulties to get BTC prices to go below $6k now, but we might not know until 6-8 months later that the bottom is already in.

I am not saying that I know that the bottom is in, but those folks who are failing and refusing to dollar cost average into bitcoin at these prices or to otherwise have a decent and reasonable BTC accumulation strategy, might be infused with too much hopium and conditions about what they believe “must happen” before BTC can resume UP….

By the way, we need to take these various soothsayers with a grain of salt. Surely, Tone Vays provides a lot of great analysis, but sometimes he goes a bit overboard, too with how much percentage he seems to be assigning to “what has to happen… blah, blah, blah…. Even he concedes that he thought that the 2017 top was going to be around $8k, so he has certain price points, such as $1,300 because that was the previous top.. blah blah blah…… I believe that he understands various bullish scenarios for bitcoin, but a lot of folks could misinterpret what he says and then really screw up their own personalized strategies because they are attempting to employ decently sounding strategies that he suggests, but concededly, also, is not employing himself because he supposedly “does not have enough time to trade on his own recommended strategies” blah blah blah.

Also, one more point, is that there might be 10 scenarios that someone like Tone might outline as possible, and then after going through all the scenarios, he concludes that the most likely one (going to $1,300) has a 20% likelihood, and it is the most probably because all the other scenarios are ranked at 12% or lower… blah blah blah. Accordingly, even though his scenario might be the most likely, it is still way less than 50% from occurring, so you should not be betting anywhere near 50% of your load on such a scenario, even if such scenario is the most likely one.

Seems to me that some guys are losing money on trading because they overallocate and become greedy, and then they go out spouting implications that certain scenarios are much more highly probable than they are in reality and they don't even personally believe the scenarios, if push comes to shove, and to me, that seems to be gambling rather than investing.
09-14-2018 05:18 PM
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Post: #6848
RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
Lightning seems to be progressing along.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comment...gress_915/

[Image: 9FNbdyRCdLo4fIdlIMKVG_Wu4oB5YikoNT7gd4uh...29e3e68e29]
09-16-2018 04:46 AM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. From what I read, none of us is claiming to be able to predict the price, surely I do not mean to claim that I can. However, based on technical analysis it is possible to ascertain the path of least resistance, and right now it isn't looking great. The most sensible interpretation of the chart as it looks right now is that of a descending triangle, which is definitely negative for the BTC price. Which is not to say there are no other interpretations possible, a falling wedge would be one, also there is an interesting diagonal support line I'm watching that we are still above.

With regards to the suggestion that support holding for this many times is positive for the probability of it holding another time I have to say that that is not how support and resistance work. There is no technical analyst that would disagree with this. If we go back there it's likely we go through, hard and fast.

All in all I'm not telling anyone to panic sell or fomo buy into BTC. Only thing I wanted to point out is that these are risky levels to buy, whether dollar cost averaging or not. After all, nobody want's to end up like the people taking Doug Casey's advice after the silver bull market. He advised people to dollar cost average into the market, they are still waiting to see a profit, especially if you take inflation and opportunity cost into account.

That said, it looks like we're having a bounce today. Don't forget to cross your fingers. Big Grin
09-16-2018 08:07 PM
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RE: The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. From what I read, none of us is claiming to be able to predict the price, surely I do not mean to claim that I can.

Yes. You are proclaiming here that you are not able to predict the price, but in this post and your previous posts, you continue to be proclaiming that the odds for down are decently high. You are not really assigning any exact odds, but you are still making strong statements in that DOWN direction.


(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  However, based on technical analysis it is possible to ascertain the path of least resistance, and right now it isn't looking great. The most sensible interpretation of the chart as it looks right now is that of a descending triangle, which is definitely negative for the BTC price.

Of course, you have a right to your opinion about what is a "most sensible" interpretation and to imply that other interpretations are not sensible.. while at the same time you are proclaiming down while not saying that you know... Are you sufficiently hedged in your BTC down price prediction?

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  Which is not to say there are no other interpretations possible, a falling wedge would be one, also there is an interesting diagonal support line I'm watching that we are still above.

Yes.. lines are so important. Great.

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  With regards to the suggestion that support holding for this many times is positive for the probability of it holding another time I have to say that that is not how support and resistance work.

I have seen it work like that before. It depends on the situation and whether support is being erroded away or not. Just because the price keeps going down to the support level in the $5,750 to $6,100 range over and over and over does not mean that it is being eroded away. Sure it is possible, but it is also possible that support is getting stronger with the passage of time.

I am not sure about what odds to assign to a down possibility, but it is not in any kind of close to inevitable area like you are trying to suggest, and you would be lucky if it were higher than 60%.

By the way, I am giving a number, and you are not, but you seem to be suggesting a much higher number for down support breaking, such as in the 90% arena? And then you also seem to be asserting that the amount of down is going to be great, but you are not assigning probabilities to those either, just implying some strong likelihood of $3k or $1k or some other vague but dire outcome.

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  There is no technical analyst that would disagree with this.

Of course, that means that you must be correct. I have heard this many times before, so why should your supposed assertion of authority be correct, this time?

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  If we go back there it's likely we go through, hard and fast.

Yes... hard and fast.. o.k. Do you have a number and a probability and how fast and hard this will supposedly go? Seems like this has been said several times before too, since early February.

You have heard of double bottoms? Well we have had double bottoms, and now we are seeming to be in the quintuple or greater bottoms... Is there a theory for that? Of course, you are going to say that there is only one theory and that is down.. Yeah, right?

We've been there several times, and maybe you are hoping that sextuple will be the charm for your theory to come true....

Let's take 2015 for example. In the beginning of 2015, the bottom of just below $200 was reached, and there were a few more attempts to go below $200, with no success that lasted for more than a day, and the bottom could largely be theorized to be in about the $220 area that lasted for about 8-10 months...

We already are over 7 months here, and even though I am not saying that the "bottom is in" for sure, you seem to be on the weaker side if you are trying to assert that there is some kind of strong evidence that any such break of support has to be hard and fast, which seems to be attempting to imply some approach different than mine - recall my approach is to buy as the price goes down, if it goes down, and if you are suggesting either to sell here or to short, it seems to be on the wrong side of prudence, especially when we are talking about bitcoin rather than some other shit crypto project that does not have as solid of fundamentals.

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  All in all I'm not telling anyone to panic sell or fomo buy into BTC. Only thing I wanted to point out is that these are risky levels to buy, whether dollar cost averaging or not.

That's bullshit.. you are trying to inspire some kind of fear, and if the price is down then this is a good time to buy, and dollar cost averaging is good with any asset that a guy concludes to be strong on fundamentals and likely to go up in value.

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  After all, nobody want's to end up like the people taking Doug Casey's advice after the silver bull market. He advised people to dollar cost average into the market, they are still waiting to see a profit, especially if you take inflation and opportunity cost into account.

Yes, if you end up being wrong about the fundamentals and the overall direction of price, then dollar cost averaging does not work too well.

Accordingly, each guy has to conclude for himself about whether to buy in or not. Here, you are arguing against dollar cost averaging in bitcoin, which surely opposite of what I believe is a good practice when it comes to bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not silver, by the way, even though it is possible that it could go down rather than UP, and each guy takes his own risks and makes his own assessment in that regards.

(09-16-2018 08:07 PM)Bran_Crypto Wrote:  That said, it looks like we're having a bounce today. Don't forget to cross your fingers. Big Grin

Bounces are normal in bitcoin and will be normal for a long time to come. We are going to continue to have high volatility for many more years, and probably until the market cap is in the $10 trillion plus arena, if it gets there.

By the way, Bran_Crypto, you still have not disclosed what your BTC or crypto position is, and now you are up to 4 RVF posts, and we have no clue about what is your position or whether anything you disclose about your supposed position would have any credibility, given the way you came into this conversation.

Give us some details. How long you been in crypto? What are your holdings, which cryptos? Do you have other investments? Are you successful in any kind of investments? You are proclaiming to have some kind of technical analysis expertise, have you been successful in applying such to bitcoin? or are you just trying to act like you are someone like Tone Vays, without giving him credit for some of your proclamations?
09-16-2018 11:18 PM
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