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The Bitcoin (BTC) thread
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Emancipator Offline
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Post: #1276
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
How can you steal cold wallets? Assuming Gox had some cold storage wallets. Inside job?

We don't use NYT when talking about politics issues or feminism, why do we use it and bring it up on the topic of bitcoin?

Not as much bloodshed as I expected, MT. Gox going byebye is a positive elimination of an anchor that has caused most price collapses in btc's history.

Mother Nature is a bitch & Father Time has an undefeated record
"If you watch cinderella backwards, its about a woman who learns her place." --Kbell

demographics is destiny
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 01:27 PM by Emancipator.)
02-25-2014 01:13 PM
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Post: #1277
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 12:40 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Gox having their coins stolen is probably better for the price then if they paid out and everyone dumped the coins into other exchanges. The coins are probably already there if that's what happened.

The amount of the heist, if there was one, has NOT been confirmed, yet.

There was a lot of BTC dumping going on in the last day or so, but the btc volume was NO where near 750k. I think one guy had mentioned record volumes on Bitstamp of 100k in a day.... ... even with the Chinese (what appears to be fake volume that is anywhere between 70 and 90% of the total BTC trade volume), it would take several weeks to unload 750k.... and surely, if the supposed heist took place over several years, then it is likely that we are NOT going to see great volumes of unloading.

I think the punchline is that we remain in a place of continued volatility and uncertainty for weeks regarding BTC prices... unless some kind of a clear statement can be made by Gox or by someone else in the bitcoin community that is in a position to know about what is going on with GOX.

There are a lot of rumors... partly based in potential facts.. including govt involvement and/or some kind of acquisition. Some of the alleged facts do NOT add up, including what was pointed out by Emancipator... that Gox would have been likely to spread out their bitcoins a little bit, and if some of the bitcoins were in cold wallets, then they would have NOT been accessible to outside stealing.

The statement that "we've been goxed" has been going around quite a bit lately, with some ambiguity in terms of what it means exactly.
02-25-2014 01:19 PM
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Barada22 Offline
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Post: #1278
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/...ax-losses/

You like forbes better than NYT?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR...4?irpc=932

How about reuters? That reputable enough?

That's fine that you want to defend bitcoins and say I'm an idiot for not posting long enough responses with enough evidence, but the evidence is there in hundreds of articles all over the place.

Look at my earlier posts on this thread months ago when I said there was a huge risk of this happening (I got into a few arguments with Marciano about it).

You lost some money on them I'm sure and it sucks, but that's the risk you take. Now is the time to get out until the dust settles...if it ever does. There will be plenty of other Bitcoin copycats that will crop up and learn from the Bitcoin mistakes.

If the price had dropped here without the exchange issues then I'd be a buyer, but there are structural issues with bitcoins.
02-25-2014 02:15 PM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #1279
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 01:19 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  The statement that "we've been goxed" has been going around quite a bit lately, with some ambiguity in terms of what it means exactly.

It's been around since last April.Banana

Edit;;

Quote:Joint Statement Regarding MtGox
Feb 24, 2014 07:00 pm



The purpose of this document is to summarize a joint statement to the Bitcoin community regarding Mt.Gox.

This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt.Gox was the result of one company’s actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry. There are hundreds of trustworthy and responsible companies involved in bitcoin. These companies will continue to build the future of money by making bitcoin more secure and easy to use for consumers and merchants. As with any new industry, there are certain bad actors that need to be weeded out, and that is what we are seeing today. Mtgox has confirmed its issues in private discussions with other members of the bitcoin community

We are confident, however, that strong Bitcoin companies, led by highly competent teams and backed by credible investors, will continue to thrive, and to fulfill the promise that bitcoin offers as the future of payment in the Internet age.

In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds. As part of the effort to re-assure customers, the following services will be coordinating efforts over the coming days to publicly reassure customers and the general public that all funds continue to be held in a safe and secure manner: Coinbase, Kraken, BitStamp, Circle, and BTC China.
How big was Mtgox market in the end? I think Btc China and BitStamp both had bigger market around 25%. So what will happen now when this drama is over? Angel
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 02:35 PM by Satoshi.)
02-25-2014 02:20 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1280
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/...ax-losses/

You like forbes better than NYT?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR...4?irpc=932

How about reuters? That reputable enough?

The question is NOT about whether the sources are reputable in the mainstream, but instead about whether they are informed enough about the broader aspects of bitcoin in order to add to the conversation. Those two additional articles are of the same inkling as your first cited article: They provide snapshots of BTC that is very incomplete in order to make negative scare-tactic points about BTC.

Yes, any of us are going to be able to do a Google search and find these kinds of naysayer snapshot articles, especially during times in which there is bad news and uncertainties and while the BTC prices are falling. The question remains how those kinds of mainstream news releases contribute to our conversation in this thread... besides merely regurgitating NON-specific noise that guys here largely already know or can easily find by doing a Google search.. as you already indicated several times.


(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  That's fine that you want to defend bitcoins and say I'm an idiot for not posting long enough responses with enough evidence, but the evidence is there in hundreds of articles all over the place.

NO one is calling you an idiot or anything like that; however, i continue to wonder why several guys, including you, want to come into this thread and to provide guys in this thread with a multitude of generalizations and mainstream press fear mongering articles without engaging with the topic on a meaningful and broader perspective level. Certainly, you have a right to chose for yourself whether or NOT to invest or buy bitcoin.... ... and it seems that some guys, including you, just want to come here and argue or to say "I told you so."

Additionally, I do NOT feel that I am attempting to defend bitcoin...... and really, I do NOT feel that either I or anyone else who is buying into bitcoin should have to defend his choice to make whatever investments into BTC or crypto currencies that he is making (whether mining, investing, buying, selling, speculating or using BTC as a payment system).




(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  Look at my earlier posts on this thread months ago when I said there was a huge risk of this happening (I got into a few arguments with Marciano about it).

If you think that your arguments in previous posts are really relevant to the conversation at this point, then why don't you link to them or re-argue the contents of those posts.... and let's get into some specifics, rather than general assertions that bitcoin is failing.. .. give us some well reasoned demonstration that accounts for the various networking expansion that is also occurring with BTC... besides merely, a few snapshot mainstream naysayer arguments.

We have all predicted that BTC is going to be volatile for quite some time in the future... so the fact that there is potentially some volatility now and downward trending is NO kind of real revelation, is it? Surely, several of us have been hoping that BTC prices would go up and go to the moon... before volatility... but hope is NOT lost regarding BTC... b/c there is also a lot of simultaneous expansion of the BTC network.

In other words, why focus on downward trends and some potential stealing and/or fraud that may have taken place (to which we do NOT know the details, yet)?



(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  You lost some money on them I'm sure and it sucks, but that's the risk you take. Now is the time to get out until the dust settles...if it ever does. There will be plenty of other Bitcoin copycats that will crop up and learn from the Bitcoin mistakes.

Has anyone claimed to have lost money in BTC, here in this thread? Are you assuming? What is your basis for such a claim? NO one here has even claimed to have money in Mt. Gox, and even if he had some money in Mt. Gox, we are NOT yet clear about what is happening with Mt. Gox. Maybe get back with us about this.

Also, even if some guys have lost some money with various BTC investments, so what? What is the point?... or if a guy is currently down, it does NOT necessarily mean that he will be down 5 hours from now or 5 days or even 5 months... that is the nature of volatility, the market moves fast, and there can be a lot of ways to both lose money and to make money.

Surely the fat lady has not yet sung yet regarding this BTC matter and the various BTC related investments. There are a lot of positive developments regarding BTC; however, you seem to be focused on some narrow aspect of the BTC world.. and for what purpose? Do you want to save us from ourselves or save us from some conniving evil people out there? which there are likely some of those in the fiat world, too, no?

Go on, make a choice for yourself and invest in something other than BTC... there is NO problem with that, but why invest your time in this thread telling us to engage in a Google search and to find a bunch of mainstream superficial and repetitive naysayer articles about BTC? What's the point that you are wanting to make, here?




(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  If the price had dropped here without the exchange issues then I'd be a buyer, but there are structural issues with bitcoins.


Yeah.. .right.. if all the stars were aligned and fit on the point of a needle, then you would be invested in BTC... O.k so you are NOT... That's fine. Are you participating in this thread b/c you are considering some day to invest in BTC or you just want to feel good about yourself to say that you were right, NOT to invest in BTC? . ... I believe a lot of us in various parts of this thread have acknowledged that there are a lot of issues with BTC... have you read those various posts?

Your reference to BTC "structural issues" again is NOT very specific.... but I am sure you have various "good" sources regarding those supposed "structural" issues concerning BTC about which you would like to inform us?
02-25-2014 03:27 PM
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Emancipator
Onto Offline
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Post: #1281
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Jay, listening to you on this thread reminds me of this Stephen Crane poem.
--------------------------------------------------

I saw a man pursuing the horizon;
Round and round they sped.
I was disturbed at this;
I accosted the man.
“It is futile,” I said,
“You can never —”

“You lie,” he cried,
And ran on.
--------------------------------------------------

Nobody's information, whether it comes from and article or one's own gut, about Bitcoin will ever change a zealot's mind. That said, I sincerely do hope BTC goes to 10,000
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 03:49 PM by Onto.)
02-25-2014 03:36 PM
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Satoshi Offline
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Post: #1282
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
BTC-e also made statement. It's really good now there is at least seven big exchange and lots of smaller. Much better than one year ago then Mtgox had 80% of market.Many bitcoins must have gone through there. And they made major mistakes before.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 03:50 PM by Satoshi.)
02-25-2014 03:50 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1283
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 03:36 PM)Onto Wrote:  Jay, listening to you on this thread reminds me of this Stephen Crane poem.
--------------------------------------------------

I saw a man pursuing the horizon;
Round and round they sped.
I was disturbed at this;
I accosted the man.
“It is futile,” I said,
“You can never —”

“You lie,” he cried,
And ran on.
--------------------------------------------------

Nobody's information, whether it comes from and article or one's own gut, about Bitcoin will every change a zealot's mind.


That's a nice poem, Onto... thanks. I am honored that I inspired you to communicate a poem dedication.... asserting your opinion about my posts in this thread. Smile

I reiterate that I have no problem with opposing viewpoints, reasoned arguments and presentations that go beyond regurgitation of mainstream fear mongering......

Additionally, guys do NOT need to be super informed about BTC to participate in this thread... that's for sure, and NO one really expects that... especially if someone happens to be new to bitcoin or crypto-currencies and researching into various aspects with an open mind.
02-25-2014 03:53 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1284
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I'm moonish, Hodl.
02-25-2014 03:53 PM
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Post: #1285
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 03:53 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I'm moonish, Hodl.

GOSH... YOU are crazy... When is this gonna happen?

I usually like to do the opposite when you make a suggestion... o.k. .. I am exaggerating a bit....
02-25-2014 03:56 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1286
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Why? Gox crashed it's over unless Mr. Starbucks does some more dumb shit. It will go up now
02-25-2014 04:01 PM
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Post: #1287
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 04:01 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Why? Gox crashed it's over unless Mr. Starbucks does some more dumb shit. It will go up now

I think that we need a little more clear direction about what, if anything, happened to the 750K.... And, yes I agree if these kinds of uncertainties are resolved then we are going to the moon.... but they seem far from any clear resolution...

just take the amorphous language on the Mt. Gox website:

Quote:>>>>>>>>>Dear MtGox Customers,

In light of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.

Best regards,
MtGox Team<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This is very NON-specific, and does NOT really commit to any direction... the only thing that is really being communicated here is that the action was taken to protect................ and, even that is NOT very committal, especially given the low level of confidence that seems to be developing in the BTC community regarding Mt. Gox.
02-25-2014 04:09 PM
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Onto Offline
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Post: #1288
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 03:53 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  That's a nice poem, Onto... thanks.

Your welcome. No matter what happens wiith BTC, the guys holding and buying here do indeed have a set of balls and being right or wrong doesn't change that.
02-25-2014 04:09 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1289
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
02-25-2014 04:21 PM
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JayJuanGee Offline
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Post: #1290
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 04:21 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Check this out
https://blockchain.info/address/1Drt3c8p...ZwQtMZ3Tew

What does it mean though?

There is an account/wallet, that had $400 million received, and various payouts to various other wallets occurring between April 2013 to the end of February 2014...

This is supposed to reflect the 750K coins that were taken "unnoticed" by GOX?

I suppose such is possible... but a guy would think that someone from Gox would NOTICE if coins were being siphoned or transferred out of GOX.. at least on a monthly or a quarterly basis, they would have been able to detect such siphoning, no?

So far Gox has neither confirmed NOR denied any details regarding that specific rumor.... Some people think that if it were NOT true or were NOT close to being true, Gox has a responsibility to affirmatively deny the rumor. Personally, I would think that they have some kind of responsibility to be clear about his kind of thing, and maybe we are just waiting for some after-the-fact explanation to make all things good? However, the various vagueness from Gox and some of their actions tend to support conclusions that they are NOT being very honest.... even though the proof regarding the integrity of Gox is NOT exactly solid, yet.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 04:58 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-25-2014 04:54 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1291
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I think that's where the rumor came from. It's a meatball I threw out there for you more "intelligent" guys to take a gander at.
02-25-2014 05:32 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1292
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
Moon. I told you. This is human nature not calculated pro trading.
02-25-2014 08:24 PM
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Apollo Away
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Post: #1293
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
New to this thread, followed one of the links and saw that bitcoins trade for different values on different exchanges. I saw one spread that was about 25 points apart. What is to keep one from buying 1 BTC @550 and selling it in another exchange @575?

Also, what is the best method to educate yourself regarding bitcoin?

Thanks in advance.

"Despite their numbers, their pussyness means I was barely hurt. 2 black eyes and a cut nose, no big deal. I could sense the fear in them so as they were walking I chased them down and told them to "go home". They all left like little girls." - Revelations 21:4
02-25-2014 10:20 PM
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Post: #1294
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 02:15 PM)Barada22 Wrote:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/...ax-losses/

You like forbes better than NYT?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBR...4?irpc=932

How about reuters? That reputable enough?

That's fine that you want to defend bitcoins and say I'm an idiot for not posting long enough responses with enough evidence, but the evidence is there in hundreds of articles all over the place.

Look at my earlier posts on this thread months ago when I said there was a huge risk of this happening (I got into a few arguments with Marciano about it).

You lost some money on them I'm sure and it sucks, but that's the risk you take. Now is the time to get out until the dust settles...if it ever does. There will be plenty of other Bitcoin copycats that will crop up and learn from the Bitcoin mistakes.

If the price had dropped here without the exchange issues then I'd be a buyer, but there are structural issues with bitcoins.

you people never stop to amaze me.

speaking so much on a topic you know so little about
02-25-2014 10:24 PM
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brg444 Offline
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Post: #1295
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 10:20 PM)Apollo Wrote:  New to this thread, followed one of the links and saw that bitcoins trade for different values on different exchanges. I saw one spread that was about 25 points apart. What is to keep one from buying 1 BTC @550 and selling it in another exchange @575?

Also, what is the best method to educate yourself regarding bitcoin?

Thanks in advance.

To inform yourself :
reddit/r/bitcoin
bitcointalk.org
look for videos of Andreas Antonopoulous on youtube. Very articulate and knowledgable bitcoin supporter

Everyone is free to profit from the arbitrage on the different exchanges
02-25-2014 10:26 PM
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el mechanico Offline
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Post: #1296
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 10:20 PM)Apollo Wrote:  New to this thread, followed one of the links and saw that bitcoins trade for different values on different exchanges. I saw one spread that was about 25 points apart. What is to keep one from buying 1 BTC @550 and selling it in another exchange @575?

Also, what is the best method to educate yourself regarding bitcoin?

Thanks in advance.
Yes I can help.

Moon = where the coins will go if I'm holding.

Anything else you need to know just ask.
02-25-2014 10:33 PM
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Post: #1297
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 10:20 PM)Apollo Wrote:  New to this thread, followed one of the links and saw that bitcoins trade for different values on different exchanges. I saw one spread that was about 25 points apart. What is to keep one from buying 1 BTC @550 and selling it in another exchange @575?

Also, what is the best method to educate yourself regarding bitcoin?

Thanks in advance.

Apollo:

I would suggest starting out by reading the two main RVF threads on bitcoin... this one and the other one:

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-29818.html?


Figure out how to buy your first bitcoin, or fraction of a bitcoin.... You do NOT have to buy whole bitcoins to get familiar with the process.... but setting up accounts and buying bitcoin will force you to learn the basics.

If you are in the USA... then maybe set up an account on localbitcoins and also another account through coinbase. A lot of us also have accounts set up on BTC-e.

Additionally, Maciano has asserted to give new RVF bitcoiners a portion of a bitcoin (less than a dollar) if they set up a wallet through Blockchain.info... He may even walk you through the process, never know?

Regarding buying BTC on one exchange and selling on another.. it is generally too cumbersome b/c the easiest and cheapest way to transfer value is through using BTC... so NOT easy to take advantage of the differences in prices .... but likely the fees would eat you up if you were to transfer through fiat and cannot find a large enough difference in prices... and $20-30 does NOT seem to be a great enough price difference to make it profitable... especially given the volatility and the time that it may take to accomplish a transfer.... ...
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2014 11:02 PM by JayJuanGee.)
02-25-2014 11:00 PM
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Post: #1298
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
I'm curious.

For those that own BitCoins? Lets say the price rises and rises and you end up making ten times what you invested (and I hope you guys do - btw!). What would be the reason for that rise? Is it simply the 'greater fool' theory - with the hope being you can make a killing and leave somebody else holding the BitCoins when the crash?

At the moment - this is how it seems to me. I cannot see what economic reason would justify the price rising ten-fold. Other than bubble like speculation.

As for it being a major currency one day. Surely that would only happen after a price crash - when the coins are no longer worth hoarding and instead only have worth as a currency which can be exchanged for goods and services.

So - for those wanting to make a killing on BitCoins - and also touting it as the next major currency - is there not a contradiction in these two goals?

The above are some questions that keep bugging me. Like I say - I hope I'm wrong and I hope you guys make a fortune.
02-25-2014 11:04 PM
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Post: #1299
RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 11:04 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I'm curious.

For those that own BitCoins? Lets say the price rises and rises and you end up making ten times what you invested (and I hope you guys do - btw!). What would be the reason for that rise? Is it simply the 'greater fool' theory - with the hope being you can make a killing and leave somebody else holding the BitCoins when the crash?

At the moment - this is how it seems to me. I cannot see what economic reason would justify the price rising ten-fold. Other than bubble like speculation.

As for it being a major currency one day. Surely that would only happen after a price crash - when the coins are no longer worth hoarding and instead only have worth as a currency which can be exchanged for goods and services.

So - for those wanting to make a killing on BitCoins - and also touting it as the next major currency - is there not a contradiction in these two goals?

The above are some questions that keep bugging me. Like I say - I hope I'm wrong and I hope you guys make a fortune.



I believe that I have addressed these kinds of questions, even in this thread, a zillion and one times, so anyone else willing to entertain these questions is welcome.

Personally, Cardguy, you are polite enough in the way that you pose your questions, but really, I get the sense that you have NOT tried very hard to look through various information, even information contained in this thread, that address those kinds of basic questions that you are raising.
02-25-2014 11:16 PM
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brg444 Offline
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RE: Bitcoins up 60% in less than a month
(02-25-2014 11:04 PM)cardguy Wrote:  I'm curious.

For those that own BitCoins? Lets say the price rises and rises and you end up making ten times what you invested (and I hope you guys do - btw!). What would be the reason for that rise? Is it simply the 'greater fool' theory - with the hope being you can make a killing and leave somebody else holding the BitCoins when the crash?

At the moment - this is how it seems to me. I cannot see what economic reason would justify the price rising ten-fold. Other than bubble like speculation.

As for it being a major currency one day. Surely that would only happen after a price crash - when the coins are no longer worth hoarding and instead only have worth as a currency which can be exchanged for goods and services.

So - for those wanting to make a killing on BitCoins - and also touting it as the next major currency - is there not a contradiction in these two goals?

The above are some questions that keep bugging me. Like I say - I hope I'm wrong and I hope you guys make a fortune.

Bitcoin is a technology, the value is in part dictated by the infrastructure around it. Hundreds of startups are building around the Bitcoin technology, creating hundreds of jobs.

I have used this analogy before but think of a Bitcoin as a stake in this technology. Domain names and the internet are an easy comparison. Did you foresee 10-15 years ago domain names being worth $100k+ ?

As more businesses and people get to use the Bitcoin network, the value of the network increases along with you share.

Now if your belief is Bitcoin is "fake money" and has "inherently" no value. Please refrain from people having to spoon feed you every bit of knowledge they have and if you are truly interested, research it yourself.

Bitcoin is used every day as a currency for transactions. Its usage for that purpose will only get better and more efficient as the network grows. (reduced volatility)

There is no contradiction at all. The hoarding argument you are using (relating to the deflationary nature of Bitcoin) has nothing to stand on. People will be hoarding coin, but will be spending them too. Hoarding is not a bad thing within the Bitcoin economy.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2014 12:11 AM by brg444.)
02-26-2014 12:08 AM
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