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The NBA Thread
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Chewbacon Offline
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Post: #2101
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-25-2014 10:20 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  The analogy that's always worked is the franchise is the provider boyfriend, while the player is a girl. The analogy is great because a girl's peak is as ephemeral, or possibly more so, as an NBA player's. Like NBA players as well, women can extend their peak by doing mundane things like shooting 3K shots per day a la Ray Allen. Otherwise, they can be lazy and never realize their potential like Lamar Odom, or eat themselves out of the league like Antoine Walker or Eddy Curry... the parallels go on and on.

So when the best player in the world goes on to spurn an otherwise well-intentioned boyfriend to leave them for a glitzier, more well-off boyfriend, the natural knee-jerk reaction is to defend the poor franchise, as society often comes to the rescue for poor spurned beta providers who otherwise 'did everything right.' Cleveland simply can't compete with locations like Miami, LA, NYC, etc., in this free agent system which heavily benefits large markets.

Lebron's not the equivalent of a cheating slut. Free agency enabled him to give him that extremely rare choice of choosing a more able dance partner. Cleveland was the equivalent of a bumbling beta boyfriend that lucked into the hottest bitch on earth, but simply didn't have the means to keep.

Lebron is the hottest bitch on the planet right now. Most people would not tell a bitch to 'date down.' The NBA is a league of 'what-ifs.' What if Garnett had played with the Spurs and Duncan with the T-Wolves? How would their careers have evolved? How would Jordan have fared being drafted by a team that had Kareem? How would Lebron have fared being drafted by a team with Shaq in his prime? How would Kobe have fared being drafted by the Raptors in T-mac's place? Free agency enables players to be less of a prisoner of circumstance. Any player would be a dumbass to be 'loyal' at the expense of their legacy, especially with as much on the line as Lebron. Lebron should never date down as long as he has the choice.

in this analogy, was free agency the time period when the girlfriend asked for an open relationship, and the boyfriend had no choice but to agree?

Also, in this analogy, Kobe's trade demands in 2007 are equivalent to a girlfriend demanding her bf buy her a ring or she would dump him. That ring came from spain aka pau pau.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2014 01:01 PM by Chewbacon.)
06-26-2014 01:00 PM
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Rotisserie Offline
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Post: #2102
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-26-2014 01:00 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  in this analogy, was free agency the time period when the girlfriend asked for an open relationship, and the boyfriend had no choice but to agree?

Also, in this analogy, Kobe's trade demands in 2007 are equivalent to a girlfriend demanding her bf buy her a ring or she would dump him. That ring came from spain aka pau pau.

No, Lebron straight up broke up with the inept boyfriend once his contract was up. Then he played the field and found a better provider and environment, even if it wasn't the absolute best.

Unrestricted free agency = true bachelorhood.
Restricted free agency = open-relationship.
Asking for a trade = straight-up adultery. If the bitch is hot enough though, most guys keep them.
Actually forcing a trade = the greatest affront of all.

Kobe's trade demands (like Carmelo's back in Denver) were truly 'disloyal,' if we're gonna keep going that route. What you say is totally accurate... in this case though, the boyfriend (Lakers) really didn't have the cash to get a ring. The Lakers got lucky because a well-off ex-girlfriend (Jerry West) decided to gift them a big shiny rock (Pau).
06-26-2014 01:50 PM
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jmourinho Offline
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Post: #2103
RE: The NBA Thread
Draft's tonight, who do you guys think goes first overall?
06-26-2014 03:49 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Wiggins, they did an ESPN science thing or whatever where they compared his measurables to others, etc. Guy is a beast with upside.

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06-26-2014 03:54 PM
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Tuthmosis Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-26-2014 01:50 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  Kobe's trade demands...were truly 'disloyal'

....

The Lakers got lucky because a well-off ex-girlfriend (Jerry West) decided to gift them a big shiny rock (Pau).

[Image: facepalm.gif]

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06-26-2014 03:58 PM
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Joga Bonito Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread






06-26-2014 04:30 PM
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Chewbacon Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-26-2014 03:58 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 01:50 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  Kobe's trade demands...were truly 'disloyal'

....

The Lakers got lucky because a well-off ex-girlfriend (Jerry West) decided to gift them a big shiny rock (Pau).

[Image: facepalm.gif]

nah, while the analogy is correct, kobe wasn't actually being disloyal. I mean come on - if Lebron's cavs were d-league, then that lakers team was high school JV. I mean smush parker? kwame brown? chris mihm?
06-26-2014 05:03 PM
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Mentavious Offline
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Post: #2108
RE: The NBA Thread
Canada rises again

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06-26-2014 06:42 PM
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RE: The NBA Thread
Bill Simmons is actually trending on Twitter because of his reaction to the Celt's taking James Young at 17.

[Image: bill-simmons-fist-pump.gif?w=500&amp...amp;crop=1]

He's catching a lot of hate right now, which makes no sense. He's an unabashed Boston fan, so what's the beef?

He is getting bashed for being a shitty writer, terrible commentator and "that he needs to go away." Christ, American's can be such snakes in the grass, just waiting for any mistake to down somebody.

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06-27-2014 01:53 AM
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TheSlayer Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-26-2014 05:03 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  nah, while the analogy is correct, kobe wasn't actually being disloyal. I mean come on - if Lebron's cavs were d-league, then that lakers team was high school JV. I mean smush parker? kwame brown? chris mihm?

It also matters that LeBron spent 7 years carrying that team of scrubs while Kobe only 'wasted' 3 years of his prime playing with his scrubs AFTER winning 3 rings with peak Shaq (whose absolute peak is tied with MJ for me). Big difference. LeBron has only been a good team for the last 4 years while Kobe has pretty much spent his career on good to great teams except for those 3 years.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 02:14 AM by TheSlayer.)
06-27-2014 02:13 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 01:53 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  Bill Simmons is actually trending on Twitter because of his reaction to the Celt's taking James Young at 17.

[Image: bill-simmons-fist-pump.gif?w=500&amp...amp;crop=1]

He's catching a lot of hate right now, which makes no sense. He's an unabashed Boston fan, so what's the beef?

He is getting bashed for being a shitty writer, terrible commentator and "that he needs to go away." Christ, American's can be such snakes in the grass, just waiting for any mistake to down somebody.

Simmons is a major troll. Listen to him for 5 mins and every ball convo turns into one of 3 things:

The Celtics
The Clippers (because he "like..watches a ton of Clippers games live")
The BK Nets (they have half of the old Celtics and are thus important)

Bonus: The Lakers since he has to bring them up and try as take a swing at them as a Celtic fan.

I don't hate on him for showing his true colors, even when he is supposed to be unbiased. He's a died green Celtics fan so let him rep it.

But I agree with what people say about him and his career. He's a shitty NBA reporter and is better when he's just writing/talking about all sports in general. He sorta strong armed himself into this "NBA guy" when he clearly was always just a casual consumer of the game (except for Celtcs).

Contrast him to Jalen Rose whom regardless if he played in the league had to learn broadcasting from scratch and has enough legit smarts and info about the game to break things down well. When Simmions was to ignorant to realize Toronto had a decent team it was Jalen whom pointed from balling with Derozen in LA, and watching Lowry and JV play that it isn't surprising, and they have some prices.
06-27-2014 06:20 AM
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Chewbacon Offline
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Post: #2112
RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 06:20 AM)kosko Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 01:53 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  Bill Simmons is actually trending on Twitter because of his reaction to the Celt's taking James Young at 17.

[Image: bill-simmons-fist-pump.gif?w=500&amp...amp;crop=1]

He's catching a lot of hate right now, which makes no sense. He's an unabashed Boston fan, so what's the beef?

He is getting bashed for being a shitty writer, terrible commentator and "that he needs to go away." Christ, American's can be such snakes in the grass, just waiting for any mistake to down somebody.

Simmons is a major troll. Listen to him for 5 mins and every ball convo turns into one of 3 things:

The Celtics
The Clippers (because he "like..watches a ton of Clippers games live")
The BK Nets (they have half of the old Celtics and are thus important)

Bonus: The Lakers since he has to bring them up and try as take a swing at them as a Celtic fan.

I don't hate on him for showing his true colors, even when he is supposed to be unbiased. He's a died green Celtics fan so let him rep it.

But I agree with what people say about him and his career. He's a shitty NBA reporter and is better when he's just writing/talking about all sports in general. He sorta strong armed himself into this "NBA guy" when he clearly was always just a casual consumer of the game (except for Celtcs).

Contrast him to Jalen Rose whom regardless if he played in the league had to learn broadcasting from scratch and has enough legit smarts and info about the game to break things down well. When Simmions was to ignorant to realize Toronto had a decent team it was Jalen whom pointed from balling with Derozen in LA, and watching Lowry and JV play that it isn't surprising, and they have some prices.

Simmons is just stephen a smith and skip bayless for the hipster/basketball-as-pop-culture poser crowd. I used to find his articles entertaining until they became more than 70 percent about movie references and him boasting of "having dinner with larry bird."
06-27-2014 07:39 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 02:13 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 05:03 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  nah, while the analogy is correct, kobe wasn't actually being disloyal. I mean come on - if Lebron's cavs were d-league, then that lakers team was high school JV. I mean smush parker? kwame brown? chris mihm?

It also matters that LeBron spent 7 years carrying that team of scrubs while Kobe only 'wasted' 3 years of his prime playing with his scrubs AFTER winning 3 rings with peak Shaq (whose absolute peak is tied with MJ for me). Big difference. LeBron has only been a good team for the last 4 years while Kobe has pretty much spent his career on good to great teams except for those 3 years.

Okay, so kobe was smart enough to minimize the wasting of his prime years. That should be commended in my books - grow the balls to speak up.

While Lebron's cavs were bad, they were still better than Kobe's lakers, and remember, Lebron was in the L-eastern conference.
06-27-2014 07:41 AM
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kosko Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
NBA Countdown would be fine with just Doug Collins and Jalen, they bounce of knowledge of each other well and Jalen can still keep it fresh for a younger crowd. Doug Collins is great on TV, and always has been, while Bill is as useless as that broad Paige Steele, at least Steele is hot though and good eye candy.

But it's true though. The hidden truth is that ABC/ESPN Basketball is watched mostly by regular white guys... like Bill. The demo data shows that khaki wearing white dudes make up the bulk of their audience, while more blacks watch TNT (been like that for many years now). It's obvious whom they pander too wen you break it all down. Is Simmons just "giving the people what they want"..."giving the people what they need"? Whom knows. Simmons is basically top in (creative side) command outside of the executive board at ESPN and has basically framed the pre-game and half-time shows how he sees fit.

He strong armed Magic out (it was needed, dude was crap on TV), but also alienated Wilbon out of the mix to whom I was always a fan of an felt he always had a good balance of knowledge and charisma but he was to "old school" for Bill and Jalen, and to much of a "brother" for Bill's more khaki wearing approach he wanted to take the show. Beef went on behind the scenes and Magic left from them doing Wilbon dirty. That is the back story if anybody was wondering about how the show in it's current format came to be.
06-27-2014 08:51 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 07:41 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 02:13 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 05:03 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  nah, while the analogy is correct, kobe wasn't actually being disloyal. I mean come on - if Lebron's cavs were d-league, then that lakers team was high school JV. I mean smush parker? kwame brown? chris mihm?

It also matters that LeBron spent 7 years carrying that team of scrubs while Kobe only 'wasted' 3 years of his prime playing with his scrubs AFTER winning 3 rings with peak Shaq (whose absolute peak is tied with MJ for me). Big difference. LeBron has only been a good team for the last 4 years while Kobe has pretty much spent his career on good to great teams except for those 3 years.

Okay, so kobe was smart enough to minimize the wasting of his prime years. That should be commended in my books - grow the balls to speak up.

While Lebron's cavs were bad, they were still better than Kobe's lakers, and remember, Lebron was in the L-eastern conference.

Kobe couldn't wait out his contract like Lebron did. Lebron did things the 'official' way... waited until he could 'see other people,' and he did. Kobe was only loyal to the Lakers, to a point. Everyone praising him for loyalty is not seeing the circumstances. If Lebron got drafted to, arguably, the best overall organization in the NBA, with Shaq in his prime, being coached by the Zen master, and reeling in free agents who want to live in LA and play with the most unselfish superstar since Magic, we'd be praising Lebron for staying with the Lakers for 20 years and having 10+ championships.

Ohshit

What Kobe did was like your girl saying 'you're so goddamn poor, I'm gonna start sucking other dudes' dicks and leave you if you don't buy me a house in the Hamptons.' In come Jerry West and Chris Wallace to the rescue.

I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 09:33 AM by Rotisserie.)
06-27-2014 09:14 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
NBA on TNT will always be better. EJ is the king.

Jalen knows what he's saying but he reserves all his knowledge for his podcast which I enjoy.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 09:32 AM by redbeard.)
06-27-2014 09:31 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 09:14 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.

What do you mean by lucky? Do you mean his championships etc. Or do you mean the team he was surrounded with?

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06-27-2014 09:54 AM
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Rotisserie Offline
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 09:54 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 09:14 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.

What do you mean by lucky? Do you mean his championships etc. Or do you mean the team he was surrounded with?

I mean the team he was surrounded with, as well as the organization he was drafted (via trade) by.

The Lakers have always attracted big stars via free agency because LA's market and location. Kobe began his career with them, played alongside arguably the greatest offensive force of all time, and was coached by arguably the greatest coach of all time.

Jalen Rose has commented that being drafted by the right team, and being coached by the right coach, can have a huge influence on your career. Kobe has had the most fortunate career circumstances since Magic, having only endured the Lakers sucking for 3 years (at his request of getting Shaq the f* out) until they fleeced Memphis of Pau for the immortal Kwame Brown and a box of Krispy Kremes.

Yet somehow he can't attract free agents to play alongside him in spite of the favorable LA market, climate, and celebrity opportunities? That puts a bit of a bane on his career, IMO.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 10:27 AM by Rotisserie.)
06-27-2014 10:26 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 09:54 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 09:14 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.

What do you mean by lucky? Do you mean his championships etc. Or do you mean the team he was surrounded with?

Of course it's the team. If you play with scrubs, you lose..Kobe lucked into a team that had four all stars at one point in one year..everyone wants to go and play in LA..and many will take a paycut just to get an opp to play in great cities where you can enjoy your money.

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06-27-2014 10:30 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 07:41 AM)SHANbangs Wrote:  Okay, so kobe was smart enough to minimize the wasting of his prime years. That should be commended in my books - grow the balls to speak up.

While Lebron's cavs were bad, they were still better than Kobe's lakers, and remember, Lebron was in the L-eastern conference.

Smart enough? He was drafted by the Lakers and then got to play with peak Shaq and LeBron was drafted by the Cavs. Where you get drafted as a lottery pick is not really in your hands. And LeBron's Cavs were not really better than Kobe's Lakers except for maybe 2010. I mean LeBron made the Finals in a historically weak East with Bobbie Gibson as a 22 year old and Mike Brown as the coach. Not to mention Kobe has been coached by one of the GOAT coaches for his 5 championships in PJ and LeBron played for dumbass Mike Brown.
06-27-2014 10:43 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 09:54 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 09:14 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.

What do you mean by lucky? Do you mean his championships etc. Or do you mean the team he was surrounded with?

Nothing to take away from Kobe as I have him as a top 10 player of all-time but a lot of ring counters and the casual fans don't understand the luck that goes into winning a ring. For example, most people think that Malone is a choker and couldn't get it done. But the 97 Bulls were one of the GOAT teams and there can be only one winner. Put the Jazz in most other years and they win a ring.

Similarly, I see a lot of Kobe fanboys use the 5>2 logic when it comes to Kobe and LeBron but how many rings does LeBron win with peak Shaq? That's why when it comes to evaluating players I look at more their individual ability and how they impact the game. Of course accolades matter to an extent but simply ring counting is poor analysis.
06-27-2014 10:47 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 10:47 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 09:54 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 09:14 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I respect Kobe's work ethic and his legacy, but he's been insanely lucky in his career. He's won the 'what if' game more than any other superstar besides Magic.

What do you mean by lucky? Do you mean his championships etc. Or do you mean the team he was surrounded with?

Nothing to take away from Kobe as I have him as a top 10 player of all-time but a lot of ring counters and the casual fans don't understand the luck that goes into winning a ring. For example, most people think that Malone is a choker and couldn't get it done. But the 97 Bulls were one of the GOAT teams and there can be only one winner. Put the Jazz in most other years and they win a ring.

Similarly, I see a lot of Kobe fanboys use the 5>2 logic when it comes to Kobe and LeBron but how many rings does LeBron win with peak Shaq? That's why when it comes to evaluating players I look at more their individual ability and how they impact the game. Of course accolades matter to an extent but simply ring counting is poor analysis.

No such thing as luck, it's just being the best at the time. Nothing lucky about that. Can't play it based on what if's, only on what happened. I see Kobe as a better player than Lebron and it has nothing to do with the amount of rings they have.

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06-27-2014 10:50 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 10:50 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  No such thing as luck, it's just being the best at the time. Nothing lucky about that. Can't play it based on what if's, only on what happened. I see Kobe as a better player than Lebron and it has nothing to do with the amount of rings they have.

Huh

What?

Where you get drafted is ENTIRELY luck. Who you get to play with until your free agency is ENTIRELY luck. Kobe wasn't the best at the time. Shaq is one of the most dominant players of all-time in his peak and Kobe got to play with him. That's luck. Put about any other capable wing on that team and that team wins titles. It's not about playing on what ifs. It's about evaluating players based on their individual skill and talent. You can have Kobe better than LeBron but LeBron passed Kobe for me with his second title in 2013. That was another peak year for LeBron. LeBron's peak and prime are way better than Kobe's.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 11:00 AM by TheSlayer.)
06-27-2014 10:56 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread








If Jabari and Wiggins pan out those battles are gone be something. Many compare Jabari to Melo and there are a ton of similarities strengths-wise, with their weaknesses being identical too.



(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 10:58 AM by Joga Bonito.)
06-27-2014 10:57 AM
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RE: The NBA Thread
(06-27-2014 10:56 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:50 AM)YoungDominican Wrote:  No such thing as luck, it's just being the best at the time. Nothing lucky about that. Can't play it based on what if's, only on what happened. I see Kobe as a better player than Lebron and it has nothing to do with the amount of rings they have.

Huh

What?

Where you get drafted is ENTIRELY luck. Who you get to play with until your free agency is ENTIRELY luck. Kobe wasn't the best at the time. Shaq is one of the most dominant players of all-time in his peak and Kobe got to play with him. That's luck. Put about any other capable wing on that team and that team wins titles. It's not about playing on what ifs. It's about evaluating players based on their individual skill and talent. You can have Kobe better than LeBron but LeBron passed Kobe for me with his second title in 2013. That was another peak year for LeBron. LeBron's peak and prime are way better than Kobe's.

Yeah no, you're right, not even sure what I was arguing about now
But on the topic of is Kobe better than Lebron, the reason I think Kobe is better : I think he is a lot more clutch than Lebron, has a better ability to take over the game and create plays and Lebron's a dick.

The rewards I see from working is what made me an addict.
There's way more people that want it than people that have it.
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 11:13 AM by YoungDominican.)
06-27-2014 11:06 AM
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