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The Official Presidential Election Thread
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Excelsior Offline
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Post: #293
RE: The Official Presidential Election Thread
(11-10-2012 01:53 AM)Samseau Wrote:  And my point is not that racial discrimination does not exist in America, but instead that racial discrimination

a.) Shouldn't be called racism, because racism has far more serious connotations other than job preferences - racism involves the denial of basic human rights, none of which occur for Black Americans.

Racism:
Quote:Definition of RACISM

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination

Racism:
Quote:rac·ism   [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Quote:b.) Isn't serious enough to be prioritized over other issues in America,

The folks who actually deal with it disagree with you.

Quote:Nonsense. You're like the feminist who tries to claim everything is rape. Real racism involves the denial of basic human rights.

Not really-established definitions of racism back me up on that. Discrimination = racism.

I would also contend that the maintenance of a system designed to promote the mass incarceration of a certain group of people on a less-than-fair basis could constitute a denial of rights (liberty, justice, the pursuit of happiness, etc).
Maybe that's just me, though.

Quote:Blacks are denied jobs? So what, that's not a right - no one has a right to a job.

Strawman-the jobs are not the right. The equal consideration is the right, as is the right to be looked upon and treated as more than second class citizens. When you have a consistent trend that involves equally qualified minorities losing out to equally qualified whites for no good reason, we have a problem.

You'll say "so what", and I get that-this reality doesn't impact you. Minorities, on the other hand, have their livelihoods to think about. They're not going to take kindly to the notion that they should be ok with being denied the opportunity to earn a living simply because of their race/ethnicity, a notion you're promoting here. Second class citizenship isn't ok for them.

Quote:Jobs are important but the solution isn't get rid of basic racial discrimination (which will always exist) but instead to get the economy moving so there are more jobs in the first place.

Can't do that when you have in place a system that excludes certain people at a greater rate solely on the basis of their ethnicity. There will be more jobs around, but those people who were excluded to begin with still won't be getting them because their race/ethnicity hasn't changed.


Quote:All of these arguments make two fatal assumptions:

1. That human nature can be changed.

None of what I ask for requires a change in human nature. Levels of discrimination seen within the United States are not immutable and/or insurmountable. That's a mere excuse, and a poor one at that.

Quote:2. There can exist a world where one race doesn't discriminate against another.

Not necessary either. Discrimination may always exist and, by extension, racism may always exist. That doesn't mean that discrimination and its impacts can't be further minimized, or that further actions should not be taken to do so. It certainly doesn't establish the notion that nothing more can be done to attack discrimination in the United States.

Quote:You obviously get these dogmas from your professors.

You obvious like to make presumptions without any factual basis at all.
My school is not a bastion of "tolerance".

Quote:You assume that somehow whites are the problem.

No, I assume that racist whites are the problem.

Not all whites are racist.

Quote:If whites were no longer in power there would no longer be any racial discrimination? A ridiculous assertion.

I agree.

Good thing I didn't make it.

Quote:Thus trying to change America into a place where there is even less discrimination can only backfire, since racial politics are zero-sum - one race can only profit at the expense of another.

Bullshit.

This entire running "get rid of whites" strawman you're fighting is crap. Nobody made that suggestion, and it isn't required to tackle discrimination. Attacking white supremacy =/= the elimination of white people. That's a tired white nationalist meme.

Quote:There will always be a limited amount of jobs, one race will always get the majority of them.

The fact that the majority of jobs are held by whites is quite irrelevant. The fact that two equally qualified candidates (one white, one a minority) can enter a job hunt and reliably face entirely different standards/realities is the actual issue. You can tackle this issue and still see the majority of jobs going to whites-making whites a minority in the workplace is not the goal.
Giving qualified candidates a fair shot at the job market is.

Quote:Criminals will always be prosecuted, and the prosecutors will always have racial preferences reflective of their own race that will result in unfair punishments for other races.

And there is no indication that the current state of racial discrimination in prosecution is immutable.

Quote:You cannot eliminate human bias because it is human to be biased.

You don't need to.

Quote:Eliminate whites as the rulers of the free world, and it will be replaced by some other dominant race - do you think the next dominant race will be better than white rule?

Well, given the fact that nobody here suggested the elimination of whites in general (as opposed to the elimination of white supremacy/racism), I have to say that I don't really care. Your question (and the rest of your pro-white, white nationalist-esque rant) is entirely irrelevant to the argument at hand.

Quote:But total removal of all forms of racial discrimination? Can't be done. There's no such thing as a perfect world. Utopia doesn't exist.

Good. Nobody is asking for it.

Quote:There are far bigger issues to tackle than discrimination in America.

Not for minorities.

(11-10-2012 02:09 AM)P Dog Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 01:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  T and A refers to actual racism that involves large scale oppression of a minority class with violence and repression, such as mass murders and slave labor,not just silly things like worse access to education and jobs.

[Image: 34rc5tz.jpg]

Oh, he's quite serious.

Welcome to America, P-Dog.

You lose money chasing women, but you never lose women chasing money.
11-10-2012 03:30 AM
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RE: The Official Presidential Election Thread - Excelsior - 11-10-2012 03:30 AM

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