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Ayn Rand Had it Right
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Liberty Sea Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right
(04-06-2013 01:50 PM)jaakkeli Wrote:  
(04-05-2013 08:10 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  We've heard from Ayn's cheer squad, now will the dissenters take the floor. I want to weigh the arguments and decide wether to read her scratchings or not.

I used to be kind of a libertarian when I was a teenager but today I just find it immature politics. The problem with hyper-individualist ultra-rationalist ideologies is that most people are not that individualistic and not that rationalistic or at least not committed to any ideals like that even when not against them. Nothing will stop those people from grouping up and taxing the Randians no matter how much they whine about it. Any ideology that starts with the premise that you have to get the whole world committed to it or it will fail has already failed.

Libertarianism is the reverse of the left-wing anarchists that were plentiful in the 19th century: they imagined that tearing down the aristocratic governments would lead to a government-less bliss and allied with the socialist revolutionaries only to find out that once government had been torn down the replacement was another government - and one that was a lot worse for them as the Tsar had occasionally shown some mercy to dissidents while Lenin never had any.

This is an old post from a banned poster, but the misconception in it seems widespread enough. So let's get that straight. Rand is neither an anarchist nor a libertarian. She was vehemently opposed to them.

Quote:Anarchy, as a political concept, is a naive floating abstraction: . . . a society without an organized government would be at the mercy of the first criminal who came along and who would precipitate it into the chaos of gang warfare. But the possibility of human immorality is not the only objection to anarchy: even a society whose every member were fully rational and faultlessly moral, could not function in a state of anarchy; it is the need of objective laws and of an arbiter for honest disagreements among men that necessitates the establishment of a government.

Read more: http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anarchism.html

Quote:Q
Why is the lack of government in Galt’s Gulch (in Atlas Shrugged) any different from anarchy, which you object to?
AR
Galt’s Gulch is not a society; it’s a private estate. It’s owned by one man who carefully selected the people admitted. Even then, they had a judge as an arbitrator, if anything came up; only nothing came up among them, because they shared the same philosophy. But if you had a society in which all shared in one philosophy, but without a government, that would be dreadful. Galt’s Gulch probably consisted of about, optimistically, a thousand people who represented the top geniuses of the world. They agreed on fundamentals, but they would never be in total agreement. They didn’t need a government because if they had disagreements, they could resolve them rationally.

But project a society of millions, in which there is every kind of viewpoint, every kind of brain, every kind of morality—and no government. That’s the Middle Ages, your no-government society. Man was left at the mercy of bandits, because without government, every criminally inclined individual resorts to force, and every morally inclined individual is helpless. Government is an absolute necessity if individual rights are to be protected, because you don’t leave force at the arbitrary whim of other individuals. Libertarian anarchism is pure whim worship, because what they refuse to recognize is the need of objectivity among men—particularly men of different views. And it’s good that people within a nation should have different views, provided we respect each other’s rights.

No one can guard rights, except a government under objective laws. What if McGovern had his gang of policemen, and Nixon had his, and instead of campaigning they fought in the streets? This has happened throughout history. Rational men are not afraid of government. In a proper society, a rational man doesn’t have to know the government exists, because the laws are clear and he never breaks them. [FHF 72]

Read more: http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas...anism.html

Rand's arguments there are sound. A shame that her ideas have been dumbed down and distorted, but such is inevitable.

I like Rand. She's a fine Jewish thinker. She was flawed for sure but she got many things right, and she got a gift for clear and powerful articulation. It's easy to get snobbish and laugh at Ayn Rand, as is common with philosophy professors nowadays. It's harder, and wiser, to learn what one can from her.

There is not a speck of nihilism in her, as far as I can tell.
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2016 10:59 PM by Liberty Sea.)
07-02-2016 10:55 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Ayn Rand Had it Right - Barron - 04-05-2013, 12:57 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - megatron - 04-05-2013, 01:04 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - iknowexactly - 04-05-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Duke Castile - 04-06-2013, 01:24 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - iknowexactly - 04-06-2013, 02:00 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Hooligan Harry - 04-06-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - SirStephen - 04-05-2013, 03:24 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aer - 04-05-2013, 04:03 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 04-05-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Duke Castile - 04-05-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 04-05-2013, 08:02 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kingsley Davis - 04-05-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - jaakkeli - 04-06-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Liberty Sea - 07-02-2016 10:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - DLZ - 04-05-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kingsley Davis - 04-05-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Wadsworth - 04-06-2013, 01:47 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 07-03-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Different T - 07-11-2016, 03:58 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stadtaffe - 09-19-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-19-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - ElFlaco - 09-19-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stadtaffe - 09-20-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - wi30 - 09-19-2016, 10:34 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 02:59 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-22-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - EDantes - 09-20-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-22-2016, 05:17 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-22-2016, 06:07 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-22-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-26-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-26-2016, 04:17 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Sauce - 09-26-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Germanicus - 09-27-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-27-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-26-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BrewDog - 09-26-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 11:59 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - NilNisiOptimum - 09-27-2016, 12:33 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-27-2016, 01:25 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - NilNisiOptimum - 09-27-2016, 08:39 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 10-02-2016, 02:09 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 09-27-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 09-27-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-27-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Germanicus - 09-27-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-27-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-27-2016, 09:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-27-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 11-08-2016, 06:44 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-23-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-24-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-24-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Jeptomf - 11-24-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Rob Banks - 11-24-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 12-05-2016, 11:07 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Koolman - 02-10-2019, 09:57 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 10:17 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Cr33pin - 02-10-2019, 10:34 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 10:54 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 02-14-2019, 09:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Sherman - 02-10-2019, 12:08 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:12 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 12:28 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:35 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - mzp1 - 02-10-2019, 12:30 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:39 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kid Twist - 02-10-2019, 12:26 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - mzp1 - 02-10-2019, 12:33 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - zigZag - 02-10-2019, 12:40 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 01:10 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 01:54 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 02:17 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 02:47 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - monsquid - 02-10-2019, 02:52 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 03:06 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 02-10-2019, 04:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 06:16 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - 911 - 02-11-2019, 09:32 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Oberrheiner - 02-11-2019, 04:23 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stonk - 02-10-2019, 06:12 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 02-10-2019, 08:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - 911 - 02-11-2019, 09:28 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - ilostabet - 02-11-2019, 06:30 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BBinger - 02-11-2019, 03:57 PM

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