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Ayn Rand Had it Right
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Germanicus Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right
(09-27-2016 02:32 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  Rand took a bunch of stuff she remembered from her pre-Soviet Russian university education, filtered it through her female hamster of unwarranted high self-worth, and shat it out on paper. Anyone who never reads Rand isn't missing much. Anyone who never reads Nietszche or Aristotle is missing a lot....... when scholars broke away from the mold of having to conform to strict Aristotlean principles that the intellectual growth and development of science began to flourish in Europe.

Quote:Germanicus,

You apparently contradicted yourself.

I did no such thing. That's a reading comprehension fail-- and a historical knowledge fail-- on your part. My statement in no way disqualifies Aristotle from his actual importance. That you have uncritically swallowed the (laughably incorrect) Objectivist line about how Aristotle is the most important man to have ever put pen to paper and only his ideas-- and his alone-- are what brought us out of the dark ages shows your limited knowledge of history.

Quote: Now you're saying he stunted the growth of Europe? Either Aristotle is a irreplaceable force in philosophy or he is not. Which is it? Make up your mind.

If you had actually read anything about the history of the middle ages you would know that a strict adherence to Aristotlean doctrine was enforced by the church and it was only by breaking away from such did the growth of science and secular knowledge gradually flourish. It appears you have not. Probably why you believed Rand's ignorant ramblings in the first place. Here's a hint to get you started-- go read about Roger Bacon and even Francis Bacon. It's not all or nothing with regards to intellectual influence. Do you think maybe it wasn't just solely Aristotle who was the intellectual inspiration and cause of the growth and rise of Europe?

Also, wanna point out where I made statements about the exact status of Aristotle in regards to the development of Western society? That's right, nowhere. Maybe you should stick to the facts on hand instead of inventing things I never said.

Quote:Don't be the guy who argues for argument's sake. Those dudes are lame.

1. I'm arguing because you said something completely incorrect.
2. Take your own advice. Stop nutthugging a mediocrity and stop being butthurt when someone drops some truth about her. That's lame.

Quote:Her knowledge of human psychology was similarly fucked.

Quote:Explain. Don't just make unsubstantiated statements.

Try clicking the link I expressly included in my original post. I didn't post that for my edification, pal. I did that for your information. Go and read that site some. If you're honest and open to having your views challenged. Disqualifying it on a very superficial first look as "amateurish" is pretty fucking lame without you at least having a good look and considering it. And after that I'm not sitting here and writing you an essay on how her epistemology is premised on faulty assumptions and misunderstood observations. It is, but well, why take that time when you're just going to dismiss it as "amateurish?"

Quote: That half-wit couldn't figure out the meaning of the word "sacrifice"

Quote:Her definition:
Quote:“Sacrifice” is the surrender of a greater value for the sake of a lesser one or of a nonvalue.
- "Ethics of Emergencies"

That's as good as any.


And that's not what the word means. At all. In fact, sacrifice means the exact opposite of her definition. No wonder your reading comprehension sucks. You don't know what words mean.

Quote:No, she didn't. If thousands of Classicists over the past 2500 years haven't done that, she sure as shit didn't. Lady? Thot, more like.

Quote:That's like saying if thousands of engineers failed to make a working airplane, the Wright Brothers sure as shit didn't.

No, it's not. That's nowhere close to the same meaning. Try this: Aristotle is excessively important to Western Civilization. (No, not in the ignorant Randian conception of history where he's pretty much secular Jesus. Actual history.) Thousands of incredibly learned and intelligent men have since studied and wrote about his works for thousands of years. And yet, it's your position that some egotistical bitch, who is demonstrably nowhere near as learned or intelligent as the scholars just mentioned, is the one who "fixed" Aristotle. Yeah, ok. As for your completely unrelated metaphor...nope, doesn't match what I said in the least. You don't do English very well.

Quote:It should behoove you that thousands can fail at the same task while one or two can succeed.

It should behoove you not to sycophantically worship the risible alleged super-intelligence of a woman who thought that Calumet K was a great piece of literature. What's Calumet K? Exactly.

Quote:
Aristotle's ethics and metaphysics was riddled with holes, mis-equivocations and errors.

So? And Alissa Rosenbaum AKA Ayn Rand didn't do anything to change that.

Quote:Understandable given the limited knowledge at the time. She replaced his proto-theological concept of "prime mover" with an uncaused universe, firmly removing any cause for the supernatural. Her universe is wholly secular, godless, yet orderly.

Her conception of the universe is incorrect, ridiculous, and dumb. I guess Aquinas and all those other God believing idiots who incorporated Aristotlean philosophy into their works and worldviews were doing it all wrong until little Alissa R showed 'em all up, eh? And, no that's not me giving the thumbs up to any brand of theology. Nor necessarily dismissing it, either.

Quote:In a word, real.

Laugh7

Anything she got right-- well, a stopped clock is also right twice a day. Maybe because she ripped off some of those scholars who came before her, like Aquinas.

Quote:I can go on at length but you need to actually read her work judge it's truth for yourself

I have read her stuff, bud. See, the issue is, I've also read actual philosophy and literature. She's sorely lacking compared to actual thinkers. You have read her and you're ignorant of other, better scholar's works. Which is why you love it. Please don't go on at length. If I wanted to read ridiculous bullshit with no basis in the real world written by a Jewish pseudo-intellectual I'd go read Marx or Strauss or the New York Times.

Quote:and stop taking random, amateurish internet blogs as an objective reference.

Amateurish blogs? Like the one this forum is attached to? Listen, kid. Information is true or not due to the quality of its content, not the means of its publication. If the National Enquirer decided to print Shakespeare that doesn't mean ol' William is now a turd. Conversely, The Huffington Post is as professional as it gets and there's not one thing on that website that's worth a damn. Can you overcome that "amateurish" blog's information? I'm wagering you can't so that's why you disqualify it wholesale. Saves you from having to think.

Quote:P.S. Here's what she actually about hickman, and no she not "admire" him per se. She called him senseless, and horrible but admired some (masculine) traits that he had.


Did you read the link I posted? She positively gushes with admiration. Those are all her words. She had the typical female sexual attraction to amorality and the negative expression of the will to power. She was not above that, and several times this fact is evident in her fiction. Also, the whole weird affair with Nathaniel Branden illustrates what kind of woman she was too.

Listen, kid. Objectivism is dumb. Learned, knowledgeable people scoff at it. There's reasons for that. Don't take my word for it. Go forth and read. Lots. About everything. When you have genuinely absorbed or investigated good chunks of the Western Canon plus read widely in various fields, you will see what I'm talking about. There really are no Objectivists who are deeply erudite. Anyone so inclined learns better and moves on.

In the meantime, I'm not really interested in carrying on this argument with you. I'll not convince you and I don't care to. It's no skin off my ass. Just don't be sitting there thinking Rand is something extremely special and her naysayers are intellectually dim. She's not and we're not. Sure, there are some passages in her fiction that I think were well-done, but her work-- especially her non-fiction-- overall is severely lacking. I've stated my reasons and provided some links and some avenues to approach if you're willing to challenge your views. If you don't...ok with me. Enjoy.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2016 05:21 PM by Germanicus.)
09-27-2016 05:07 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Ayn Rand Had it Right - Barron - 04-05-2013, 12:57 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - megatron - 04-05-2013, 01:04 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - iknowexactly - 04-05-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Duke Castile - 04-06-2013, 01:24 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - iknowexactly - 04-06-2013, 02:00 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Hooligan Harry - 04-06-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - SirStephen - 04-05-2013, 03:24 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aer - 04-05-2013, 04:03 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 04-05-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Duke Castile - 04-05-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 04-05-2013, 08:02 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kingsley Davis - 04-05-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - jaakkeli - 04-06-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Liberty Sea - 07-02-2016, 10:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - DLZ - 04-05-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kingsley Davis - 04-05-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Wadsworth - 04-06-2013, 01:47 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 07-03-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Different T - 07-11-2016, 03:58 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stadtaffe - 09-19-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-19-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - ElFlaco - 09-19-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stadtaffe - 09-20-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - wi30 - 09-19-2016, 10:34 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 02:59 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-20-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-22-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - EDantes - 09-20-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-22-2016, 05:17 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-22-2016, 06:07 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-22-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-26-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-26-2016, 04:17 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Sauce - 09-26-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Germanicus - 09-27-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-27-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-26-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BrewDog - 09-26-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-26-2016, 11:59 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - NilNisiOptimum - 09-27-2016, 12:33 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 09-27-2016, 01:25 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - NilNisiOptimum - 09-27-2016, 08:39 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - XPQ22 - 10-02-2016, 02:09 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 09-27-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - vinman - 09-27-2016, 11:01 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-27-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Germanicus - 09-27-2016 05:07 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BossOfBosses - 09-27-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 09-27-2016, 09:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Phoenix - 09-27-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kaligula - 11-08-2016, 06:44 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-23-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-24-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Nowak - 11-24-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Jeptomf - 11-24-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Rob Banks - 11-24-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 12-05-2016, 11:07 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Koolman - 02-10-2019, 09:57 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 10:17 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Cr33pin - 02-10-2019, 10:34 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 10:54 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - puckerman - 02-14-2019, 09:50 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Sherman - 02-10-2019, 12:08 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:12 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 12:28 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:35 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - mzp1 - 02-10-2019, 12:30 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 12:39 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Kid Twist - 02-10-2019, 12:26 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - mzp1 - 02-10-2019, 12:33 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - zigZag - 02-10-2019, 12:40 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 01:10 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 01:54 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Aurini - 02-10-2019, 02:17 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 02:47 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - monsquid - 02-10-2019, 02:52 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 03:06 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 02-10-2019, 04:55 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Heuristics - 02-10-2019, 06:16 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - 911 - 02-11-2019, 09:32 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Oberrheiner - 02-11-2019, 04:23 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - Stonk - 02-10-2019, 06:12 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - TigerMandingo - 02-10-2019, 08:14 PM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - 911 - 02-11-2019, 09:28 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - ilostabet - 02-11-2019, 06:30 AM
RE: Ayn Rand Had it Right - BBinger - 02-11-2019, 03:57 PM

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