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Russian language: no more bullshit
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scrambled Offline

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Post: #412
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit
(05-26-2016 09:03 AM)marty Wrote:  Pimsleur, Michael Thomas and Duolingo all suck IMO (actually I've never encountered anyone who has reached a decent level using these materials).

Pimsleur is the single best resource I have found in learning a language; it's the only thing that really got me to speak it effectively in real life situations.

Your phrase, decent level, is useless to this discussion, as it is both utterly subjective and also untrue. Pimsleur is just an introduction to the language, aimed at the 'survival' or 'tourist' level. See the "Interagency Language Roundtable" scale for details; it describes,

Quote:"Speaking 1 (Elementary Proficiency) Able to satisfy minimum courtesy requirements and maintain very simple face-to-face conversations on familiar topics. A native speaker must often use slowed speech, repetition, paraphrase, or a combination of these to be understood by this individual. Similarly, the native speaker must strain and employ real-world knowledge to understand even simple statements/questions from this individual. This speaker has a functional, but limited proficiency. Misunderstandings are frequent, but the individual is able to ask for help and to verify comprehension of native speech in face-to-face interaction. The individual is unable to produce continuous discourse except with rehearsed material." http://www.govtilr.org/skills/ILRscale2.htm#1

That's all; what else would you expect from 90 half hour lessons? To read, without a dictionary, the complete works of Dostoyevsky? Reaching a "1" is itself quite an accomplishment in any secondary language, especially a more distant one like Russian (compared to English), and takes many hours of work.

Quote: They are okay to get your feet wet

I thought they suck "IMO"?

Quote: but you should make the transition into native materials as soon as possible, otherwise you'll never learn how natives speak the language you're learning

And you do that through a program like Pimsleur, the very thing you said won't 'bring you to a decent level'.

Quote: The problem with Pimsleur and similar materials is that they are totally unnatural. You'll never hear language used that way and it makes you content that you're making progress, while you're only repeating phrases like "Hi. My name is Jack. I am an American. Where are you from? Where is the hotel XY?" etc. and can't even understand a word in a proper conversation.

It's called linguistic register; they teach to a more formal, basic version of the language--when a tutoring program like Pimsleur uses it, it is called, "education". The point isn't to come across as a native of Novgarod, which is impossible through a single language program, but to have the minimum amount of proficiency to survive in-country and learn more in the targeted language.

Really, the best way to learn a language is to hire a tutor; so, essentially, Pimsleur is a less-expensive, more convenient, and infinitely more patient, one-on-one tutor that will bring you to the "1" or "elementary proficiency" level.

Quote:Native materials are the key and are much more fun than using the aforementioned materials.

And sprinting for a gold medal in the Olympics is much more fun than learning how to walk.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2016 08:48 AM by scrambled.)
06-01-2016 08:40 AM
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Russian language: no more bullshit - Roosh - 04-14-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: Russian language: no more bullshit - scrambled - 06-01-2016 08:40 AM

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