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The Old Testament thread
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SunW Offline
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Post: #92
The Old Testament thread
(07-04-2015 09:11 AM)N°6 Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 08:23 AM)SunW Wrote:  
(07-03-2015 07:03 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Why did God in Deuteronomy allow Jews to practice usury on gentiles?

I'm going to assume that we agree on the definition of usury - unreasonably high interest, so 6% interest would not be considered usury, while 21% might be, and anything over 100% would fall into usury without a doubt.

I beg to disagree. For most of Christendom's history usury was considered any interest. The view within Christendom and indeed pagan antiquity was that money is a sterile medium to facilitate free exchange between producer and consumer. When something sterile begats even more sterility through compound rates, an anti-production ensues. It begins with full production not reaching the consumer despite demand until - inevitably - all production is smothered by the usurer.

Your definition has been dripped fed into the Western man since the era of the di Medici popes and now the NIV translation of the Bible has replaced the term usury with 'excessive interest'. Who publishes the NIV? Dodgy

Considering that Solomon says that the borrower is a slave to the lender and God advises to owe another man nothing but love, I don't think the Bible says what you think it says at all. If anything, God wants his people to avoid borrowing because he understands the cost. But let's ignore the Bible and just look at the "earning interest" off other people's labor.

Now I laugh at the stupidity that lenders sit around doing nothing but earning interest, because how many of these idiots have ever tried to be lenders? Oh and all of you who are lending critics can try, using something like LendingClub. Most of the opinions of people who use that (lending money to others) talk about how much time it took to analyze loans, the cost of defaults, or the costs of someone prepaying early (you won't collect interest), preventing them from earning the strong return they thought. On top of that, they also had to report these earnings in taxes - and that's another complicated manner. Sure some people willing to work at it have gotten good at it and made good money, but it didn't come without work and patience in figuring things out.

I love how so many Americans have purchased this mystical 4HWW idea that there's this "job out there" that is easy and doesn't take much work, but it doesn't exist. At. All. (My favorite one is day trading, even though that takes a ton of mental work and patience). You may have to do a lot of mental work, you may have to do a lot of physical work, or you may have to do a lot of emotional work, but you are going to work. Like Mike Rowe talked to that one family therapist about why he left family therapy for plumbing while they were standing in a sewer and the guy said, "Well, I finally got tired of other people's shit."

Lending is no different - some people will pay early (little to no interest), others won't pay at all (default, you lose the principal and interest), some will pay in full, but this money must offset the others and you're still left deciding who or what next (investing is the same). Also, even if you're earning a good 5% on a loan and thinking it's all good, what happens when inflation suddenly jumps to 10%. Now the borrower is making money off you because he has a fixed loan from you - you, the lender, are getting exploited by the borrower! Likewise in Biblical days, what happens if you lend out all your wealth to earn interest, but then famine strikes? And what happens if the interest isn't enough because food is more scarce than what you would have earned in interest? Yes boys and girls, this is how economics work - lenders are not always in the advantage position.

But hey, if you and others at this forum want to take a stab at it and practice what you preach, knock yourself out and start your career with LendingClub. I mean it's so easy, right?

Some other points about why it's ethical to charge interest:
  1. Money today is more valuable than money tomorrow; consider that this is also true for ideas. The first person to come up with idea often generates the most rewrads, unless he markets terribly.
  2. While whiny Americans think that everything should be handed to them for free, the lender OWNS the money, not you. He is free to charge what he thinks is appropriate. Get as mad as you want; if you don't like, earn it yourself and avoid borrowing. Plenty of people do this all the time; ie: they buy homes in full cash purchases, so lenders aren't needed by everyone. So if you absolutely need something, you can either work for it (ie: sell your labor), or you can borrow - but borrowing costs just like labor costs - you lose energy with labor.
  3. There are many situations in business where an idea is excellent and waiting to raise the capital to save may not be wise (or may prevent an idea from starting before competitors get it). In these cases, borrowing can be useful. Of course, here we look at borrowing for an investment vs. borrowing for consumption, which is completely different. Again, the lender has the money. He can choose to give it, or he or she can lend it. It's not your money; it's theirs.
07-04-2015 04:31 PM
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Messages In This Thread
The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 05-20-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - kbell - 05-20-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - MMM - 05-20-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - seneca - 05-20-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - h3ltrsk3ltr - 05-20-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - h3ltrsk3ltr - 05-20-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 05-20-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Atlantic - 05-20-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - alexdagr81 - 05-20-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - lskdfjldsf - 05-20-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - memcpy - 05-20-2015, 11:06 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - RawGod - 05-21-2015, 06:50 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 05-21-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Socrates - 05-21-2015, 01:22 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - heavy - 05-21-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 05-21-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Teedub - 05-21-2015, 04:05 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Dr. Howard - 05-21-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 05-21-2015, 04:31 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - RockHard - 05-22-2015, 07:29 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - memcpy - 05-22-2015, 10:04 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Atlantic - 05-22-2015, 10:23 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - memcpy - 05-22-2015, 11:44 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 05-23-2015, 01:02 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 05-23-2015, 01:04 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Sooth - 05-22-2015, 10:43 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - h3ltrsk3ltr - 05-23-2015, 11:26 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 05-24-2015, 05:02 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 05-24-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - ricroc - 05-24-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Mage - 05-25-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - raliv - 05-26-2015, 11:03 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 05-26-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - didaskalos - 06-05-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 06-22-2015, 11:42 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - kbell - 06-26-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Ambicatus - 06-28-2015, 03:17 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 07-03-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-03-2015, 06:21 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 07-04-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Socrates - 07-06-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - scorpion - 04-22-2016, 08:19 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 07-03-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 07-04-2015, 01:08 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 07-04-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 07-04-2015, 09:11 AM
The Old Testament thread - SunW - 07-04-2015 04:31 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-04-2015, 10:54 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-03-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - johhny - 07-04-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-04-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Sherman - 07-03-2015, 10:42 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 07-04-2015, 01:26 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Ambicatus - 07-04-2015, 04:26 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 05:57 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Ambicatus - 07-04-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 08:18 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 08:42 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SunW - 07-04-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 12:07 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-04-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-04-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Lumbre - 07-05-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-05-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Phoenix - 07-05-2015, 07:12 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 07-05-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - johhny - 07-05-2015, 09:24 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - johhny - 07-05-2015, 08:31 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - johhny - 07-05-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - scorpion - 07-06-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Paracelsus - 07-14-2015, 02:31 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 07-14-2015, 01:18 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - JDog212 - 04-23-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - SirTimothy - 04-23-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 08-12-2019, 01:14 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Wutang - 10-29-2015, 10:26 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Wutang - 10-30-2015, 01:27 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Ambicatus - 11-09-2015, 01:24 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Wutang - 11-09-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Roosh - 04-19-2016, 04:31 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - debeguiled - 04-19-2016, 04:59 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Clockwerk - 04-19-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Helaman - 04-20-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Samseau - 04-20-2016, 04:57 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - syrianguy - 04-22-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - TheMost - 04-23-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Kid Twist - 05-02-2016, 02:07 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - da_zeb - 05-11-2016, 05:11 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Kid Twist - 05-03-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Orion - 05-08-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - scrambled - 05-09-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - da_zeb - 05-11-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Kid Twist - 05-03-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Kid Twist - 05-09-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Kid Twist - 05-11-2016, 08:47 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - dnx - 08-06-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: The Old Testament thread - Garuda - 07-09-2019, 12:50 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - HB2 - 07-12-2019, 06:17 AM
RE: The Old Testament thread - N°6 - 08-12-2019, 01:01 AM
The Old Testament Thread - Truth Teller - 06-22-2015, 05:16 PM

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