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Holocaust fact finding thread
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Gorgiass Offline
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Post: #75
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread
(12-31-2016 02:12 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The Nuremberg Trials were a total farce when measured by Western standards of jurisprudence. They were little more than show trials. The goal of the trial was not to discover the truth, it was to discredit and demonize the German leadership. By accusing your enemy of committing ghastly war crimes, you can more easily gloss over your own. The "confessions" obtained at Nuremberg were extracted through torture, including the crushing of the mens' testicles, as well as threats against their families lives.

Read about Nuremberg here: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_webera.html

The passage referencing testicle crushing you're referring to can be found here: https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/torture-and...nuremberg/

Here is a screencap of the page -
[Image: Capture_zpsvaluuj5u.png]

Note the way the page is laid out, firstly saying Scotland "openly admitted" to the torture in a memoir and then placing the "quote" below. Problem is, this isn't a quote from him at all. In fact, in his memoir, Scotland specifically denied the allegations of torture.
Quote:At his war crimes trial, SS General Fritz Knoechlein claimed that he was tortured, which Scotland dismisses in London Cage as a "lame allegation".[19] According to Knoechlein, he was stripped, deprived of sleep, kicked by guards and starved. He said that he was compelled to walk in a tight circle for four hours. After complaining to Scotland, Knoechlein alleges that he was doused in cold water, pushed down stairs, and beaten. He claimed he was forced to stand beside a hot gas stove before being showered with cold water. He claimed that he and another prisoner were forced to run in circles while carrying heavy logs.[1]

Even IF these allegations were true it's certainly a far cry from crushing testicles. Barely a step above waterboarding, which I assume you're in favor of, as am I. This type of deliberate misleading of readership and spreading of outright falsehoods is endemic among the denialism movement, this is just one example that jumps right out. I have to get out as well tonight so will leave it at that for now.

IHR is almost unanimously ruled unreliable as well, but dealing with arguments and audiences like this it becomes impossible to prove a sources validity, or lack thereof, to some because unless one goes through point by point as above, simply quoting another source that calls them lying antisemites will only lead to allegations of Jewish controlled media on the part of the first source.

(12-31-2016 02:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  If you told me that tens or even hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered by the Nazis through deliberate starvation or directly by machine gunning them into pits, that would strike me as believable. But when you tell me that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers (that were conveniently destroyed) and their bodies incinerated into fine ash (without a single gassed body remaining anywhere) and that zero surviving logistical, architectural, engineering or other written documentation exists to support that claim, I am highly skeptical. All we're left with is fragments of speeches and diaries taken out of context, confessions obtained through torture and preposterous eyewitness testimony. Honestly, for an alleged crime of this magnitude, shouldn't the evidence be utterly overwhelming? You find more hard evidence for a single murder. This is six millions alleged murders. Why is hard evidence so difficult to come by? Doesn't anyone else find it bizarre that you're reduced to proving the alleged murder of six million people in an industrial-scale genocide operation by quoting from a speech? Is that really the best evidence available? What does that say about the claim, if so?

[Image: p-germany-dachau-prisoners-deaths-13.jpg]









^Evidence.

Do you believe that the troops that came across this scene were going to organize an autopsy of the tens of thousands of corpses that hadn't even yet been burned to determine whether they died from starvation, typhus, TB or Zyklon B? It's absurd to even suggest such a thing. We're fortunate enough to have footage like above to refute denialist claims. Nobody in this thread has made the argument that 6 million were gassed, and many are open to the possibility that not even that number were killed, but to say that the only evidence for murder approaching that scale is a couple speeches does nothing for one's credibility.

(12-31-2016 03:14 PM)scorpion Wrote:  This is an important picture for people to see. It gives away the gas chamber lie in the most obvious manner: what kind of German design is this? It makes no sense.

You march a thousand plus people downstairs into a basement and murder them with poison gas...and then what? You've got a thousand lifeless corpses laying in your basement. Now you've got to haul them upstairs one by one (how long to you wait until the poison gas dissipates?) and place each body individually in one of your five crematoria. Then you have to wait a few hours for each body to be incinerated. And according to this design, this was all done by hand.

Gas doesn't have to dissipate, Jews and NAZI supervisors emptying the chambers were equipped with gas masks.

This is also an example of a double standard. You say it's inefficient to kill people in a basement here, while specifically praising someone who used a far less efficient method, also in a basement, here -

(12-31-2016 02:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Secondly, we have historical evidence that at least a minority of people have no qualms about murdering thousands of people by shooting them. This lovely fellow was Stalin's executioner:

Quote:Blokhin initially decided on an ambitious quota of 300 executions per night; and engineered an efficient system in which the prisoners were individually led to a small antechamber—which had been painted red and was known as the "Leninist room"—for a brief and cursory positive identification, before being handcuffed and led into the execution room next door. The room was specially designed with padded walls for soundproofing, a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the prisoners to stand against.
...
An estimated 30 local NKVD agents, guards and drivers were pressed into service to escort prisoners to the basement, confirm identification, then remove the bodies and hose down the blood after each execution.
...
Note: that is what a systematic murder operation really looks like. No need to complicate things with poison gas. You just shoot them.

This method employed 30 (non-slave) workers to kill 300 people per night. That is a single pass through a gas chamber. Yet you call this model out as an example of efficiency while calling out the gas chamber model as inefficient to the point of unbelievability. Also, one reason these killers don't operate in the town square is because that would eliminate false hope of survival, decrease incentives for productive slave labor, and increase likelihood of uprising.

(12-31-2016 03:14 PM)scorpion Wrote:  What kind of ridiculous systematic genocide machine is this? Why wouldn't they just starve them or machine gun them? The Jews were completely unarmed at that point and totally at their mercy. It's completely preposterous to think the Nazis would gas thousands of Jews at a time in a basement then carry them back upstairs one by one and cremate them. If this genocide plan was years in the making by German Nazis, you would expect a literal assembly line of death. You would expect to see a gas chamber with a floor on hydraulics that could simply lift up and dump bodies onto a conveyor belt emptying into a giant pool of acid. Now that is an industrial death machine. But we don't have that. We just have a regular basement with crematoria upstairs. And by the way, if the basement "gas chambers" were filled with that many people at one time, they would all quickly die of asphyxiation when all the oxygen in the airtight chamber had been respirated. You wouldn't even need poison gas at all. The more you look at the gas chamber story logically, the more it falls apart. It just doesn't hold water. This is why they make it illegal to question the narrative: the evidence doesn't support the claim, and that becomes obvious with a little research and basic logic.

An unresearched statement masquerading as fact. https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/ho...om.685796/
A single person in a 20x30 foot room would survive for 12 days before being killed by CO2 levels. If you crammed 260 people in that room (note that I have deducted 1.76 cubic feet of mass per human to allow for displaced air with this number) they would all survive for an hour before suffering the end result which could be achieved in minutes with gas.

Starving requires space which could be used to house productive slave labor. Machine gunning indoors is messy, expensive, and "hands-on". Outdoors is visible to others and still hands on.

All resources were in short supply. Metals and engineering were primarily devoted to the war effort. Why would anyone with an endless supply of free human labor devote precious materials to some elaborate hydraulic platform under these circumstances?

(12-31-2016 04:39 PM)scorpion Wrote:  What do you have to say about the many thousands of people who testify that they were abducted by aliens? I don't say that flippantly. I'm merely pointing out that it's not exactly uncommon for people to testify that something happened to them when in reality it did not occur. People lie about things like that for all sorts of reasons. Besides, there are also eyewitnesses whose testimony contradicts the official narrative. Like Paul Rassinier, who was himself imprisoned at Buchenwald. Or Esther Grassman. Or Maria Vanherwaarden and Marika Frank:

You rail against the eyewitness testimony of thousands of people and immediately give three examples of eyewitness testimony (one of the which could best be described as a "house Jew") of your own as if that counters volumes?

(12-31-2016 08:00 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Preparing to head out for New Years so I'll just address this point quickly. That is a picture of what is called chamber III at Majdanek. Here is a picture of it with better lighting. That is not a homicidal gas chamber. That is a delousing room for clothes and bedding. This is a homicidal gas chamber. Notice a difference? (Hint: Not quite the airtight seal I'd be looking for on that wooden door at Majdanek if I was going to be murdering hundreds of people inside with enormous concentrations of poison gas - and yes, that is the original door).

The door in your own linked picture is clearly steel. The ceiling, walls, and floor are concrete (ceiling looks like wood only because it was poured in place). The door is also ajar and 75 years old. Quite likely for the concrete to have shifted and rubber seals deteriorated in that time.

(12-31-2016 08:00 PM)scorpion Wrote:  To anyone who really wants to go deep down the rabbit hole on this, the entire Holocaust Handbooks series is available free in pdf form. There are literally entire books written examining the technical details of each camp and other aspects of the Holocaust narrative in order to separate fact from fiction.

I'm certain that every one of those books could be picked apart as in the first example above if one wanted to invest the time to do so. I disagree strongly with most Jews politically and am not especially close to any, but Holocaust denialism is simply an example of "commitment and consistency" gone awry.
12-31-2016 10:41 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Holocaust fact finding thread - Valentine - 12-31-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Gorgiass - 12-31-2016 10:41 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-17-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Menace - 04-12-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-02-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-05-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-06-2017, 12:42 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Nowak - 09-11-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-27-2018, 06:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-29-2018, 12:39 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Ruslan - 01-29-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Dusty - 04-12-2018, 07:42 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-13-2018, 07:44 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-14-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM
RE: Holohoax - blck - 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 06:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-17-2018, 03:12 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 05-02-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - kamoz - 05-19-2018, 07:52 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Lika - 05-23-2018, 03:15 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - fokker - 05-20-2018, 04:04 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - nola - 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - storm - 10-22-2018, 04:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-23-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:15 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-27-2018, 04:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 11-08-2018, 08:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-06-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 01-27-2020, 04:27 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Goni - 01-28-2020, 04:45 AM

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