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Holocaust fact finding thread
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scorpion Offline
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Post: #135
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread
(01-02-2017 12:37 PM)Delta Wrote:  I have to admit that this thread has changed my perspective in some ways.

I used to think "Holocaust denier" meant raving anti-Semitic lunatic who believes that there's some pact among Jews to make up stories about having been sent to concentration camps. In reality, the deniers' position does not require the bulk of concentration camp survivors to be lying in any way, and I don't sense any malice toward Jews in this thread. I say this being partially Jewish myself.

This is important to emphasize. There really is no Holocaust conspiracy. There is no powerful cabal of devious Jews who are sitting around laughing about foisting the gas chamber lie on the clueless goyim. What happened was a sort of perfect storm that allowed the story to take off and develop a life of its own over the years. To sum it up:

During the war, there was obvious widespread persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany. Really awful things happened to hundreds of thousands of Jews. Many separated from their families, their possessions stolen, thrown into forced labor camps. This was an awful event for the Jews. And in that environment, paranoia runs wild. Because no one knows what's going to happen - and so it's natural to assume the worst. And what's obviously the worst? "They're going to kill us all!"

As the Jews were being relocated to the East they went through transit camps where the trains stopped and the Jews got off to have their hair cut and take showers and have their clothes replaced and/or deloused with Zyklon B. This was done to halt the spread of Typhus and other diseases and prevent it from taking root in the main prison camps. This is, I believe, where the gas chamber myth first began: you have trainloads of frightened, paranoid Jews being herded like cattle into showers and seeing boxes of insecticide poison laying around. They assume the worst. The rumors spread like wildfire.

Reports of the "gas chambers" leaked out during the war but were regarded by all parties as being obvious wartime nonsense. At some point the Allies realized there was a propaganda benefit to the story and began to encourage it. By the end of the war the Soviets - who had a laundry list of war crimes with their name on it - realized that the gas chamber story was a very useful propaganda tool to whitewash themselves in comparison. And as the dust from the war began to clear, the Zionists, who had been pushing for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine for almost 50 years by that point, realized that the gas chamber story might finally be their ticket to the literal promised land.

So essentially at that point you have five factions who allhave an incentive to push the gas chamber atrocity propaganda as having been an actual historical event, because they all benefit directly from doing so:

1) The Allies - The gas chamber story whitewashes their own war crimes, gives them the absolute post-war moral high ground when contrasted with the defeated Nazis, allows total discretization of the Nazi ideology in the future and provides a legal and moral justification for killing or jailing as many surviving Nazis as possible.

2) The Soviets - Same as above.

3) Zionist diaspora Jews - The gas chamber story provides them the perfect PR cover story to finally drum up enough international support to establish the Zionist state of Israel in Palestine.

4) German/Polish Jews who suffered through the Holocaust - The gas chamber story results in international sympathy and significant aid, which is desperately needed to help them return to normal life. Also results in direct transfer payments from the new German government for life.

5) The new German government - Their power depends completely on pleasing the victorious Allies and Soviets and distancing themselves entirely from the defeated Nazis. Going along with the gas chamber story allows them to justify doing so to their own stunned and beleaguered countrymen.

The result was that in the aftermath of the war there was every incentive for the parties in power to treat the gas chamber story as if it actually occurred - even if it did not. The only people who could object to the story were in no position to do so - having been defeated utterly, killed and/or captured. In the decades after the war the story gradually grew into the status of myth or legend, and ultimately religion. It came to symbolize something for the Jews - a sort of trial or crucible they survived. It developed into an important social binding tool, a shared myth they all relate to that helps to define and solidify their intra-tribal bonds.

(01-02-2017 12:37 PM)Delta Wrote:  This common misrepresentation of Holocaust denial (as denial that anything happened, rather than denial that the purpose of the camps was extermination), coupled with its illegality throughout most of Europe, is enough to cast some doubt in my eyes. Let's say you know a guy named Joe. You can't go around telling everyone Joe is a crazy idiot with ridiculous beliefs, and then cover Joe's mouth and knock him unconscious when he tries to speak up for himself. If he's so insane, why not let him open his mouth and prove you right?

I'm not saying I totally buy into what Scorpion and others are saying. I'd have to do much more research to form such an opinion. But my mind is more open than it used to be.

And this is really the problem with "Holocaust denial" laws, and is the reason that the truth about the gas chambers will ultimately come out. You can't suppress this sort of information in the age of the internet. Throwing people in prison for disagreeing with disputed historical facts is utter madness in supposedly free Western democratic states. It's literal Soviet tactics. In the future the gas chambers will be regarded similarly as we now regard past hysterias over witches or alchemists (sidenote: everyone should read Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, doing so will help one understand how these irrational beliefs form and spread time and time again throughout history). Eventually the revisionists will be vindicated.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
01-02-2017 01:37 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Holocaust fact finding thread - Valentine - 12-31-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - scorpion - 01-02-2017 01:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-17-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Menace - 04-12-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-02-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-05-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-06-2017, 12:42 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Nowak - 09-11-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-27-2018, 06:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-29-2018, 12:39 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Ruslan - 01-29-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Dusty - 04-12-2018, 07:42 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-13-2018, 07:44 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-14-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM
RE: Holohoax - blck - 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 06:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-17-2018, 03:12 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 05-02-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - kamoz - 05-19-2018, 07:52 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Lika - 05-23-2018, 03:15 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - fokker - 05-20-2018, 04:04 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - nola - 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - storm - 10-22-2018, 04:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-23-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:15 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-27-2018, 04:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 11-08-2018, 08:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-06-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM

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