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Holocaust fact finding thread
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weambulance Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread
Oskar Groening's claims are obvious bullshit.

An example from Groening's account:

Quote:One night towards the end of 1942, Gröning and his comrades in their SS barracks on the outskirts of Birkenau were awakened by an alarm.[3]:166–167 They were told that a number of Jews who were being taken to the gas chambers had escaped and hidden in the woods. They were ordered to take pistols and search the woods.[3]:167 When his group arrived at the extermination area of the camp they saw a farmhouse, in front of which were SS men and the bodies of seven or eight prisoners who had been caught and shot.[3]:167 The SS men told Gröning and his comrades that they could go home but they decided to hang around in the shadows of the woods.

They watched as an SS man put on a gas mask and emptied a tin of Zyklon B into a hatch in the cottage wall. Gröning said the humming noise from inside "turned to screaming" for a minute, then to silence.[3]:167 A comrade later showed him the bodies being burnt in a pit. A Kapo there told him details of the burning, such as how gases developed in the body and made the burning corpses move.[3]:167

That account is inconsistent with physical reality. Zyklon B would not work as described there.

Zyklon B is HCN adsorbed to the surface of a carrier material. It's hard to find comfirmable specifics about the actual behavioral characteristics of the product but here's what I know, more or less. Some of my details may not be exactly right but in general, I think my assumptions are sound.

1. HCN has a boiling point of about 78 degrees F. Below that, minimal HCN will evaporate.

2. Evaporation of HCN will chill the Zyklon B, naturally inhibiting spontaneous outgassing of HCN from the carrier material.

3. Desorption of HCN from the carrier material can't be that spontaneous in normal conditions because...
----3a. If it was, tins of Zyklon B would be ticking poison gas bombs waiting to blow. They were instead routinely stored in barracks buildings in various camps, not special hazardous material depots.
----3b. And, it would be incredibly dangerous to handle Zyklon B at all. You don't have to breathe in HCN, it can get into your body through your skin if it's in liquid form.

4. Therefore, I conclude that it takes a fair amount of energy to desorb much HCN from the carrier material. Desorption is not spontaneous, you have to put energy into the system to make it happen (in this case). I'm unclear on the exact kinetics of Zyklon B HCN desorption because I can find dick all for references on it.

5. That point is consistent with the actual confirmed delousing chambers in various concentration camps which have heated blowers that were used to heat the Zyklon B pellets to release the HCN gas. No such heated blower exists in the Auschwitz "gas chamber", nor is the use of one described in "eyewitness testimony".

[Image: v07p-73_Berg1.jpg]

That's a picture of the heater in one of the delousing chambers at Dachau.

6. There was certainly no such heating contraption at the cottage.

7. Zyklon B doesn't just stop giving off HCN if the conditions are right to desorb the gas. While humans will die very quickly at 1000+ ppm HCN concentration (a modern estimate is on average people die at ~550 ppm after 10 minutes), if you want to rapidly achieve 1000 ppm of HCN concentration to kill your victims in the quoted "about a minute" you have to dump a lot of material into the room. And then the material will keep giving off more and more gas until it either runs out of HCN to desorb or the conditions change. Either way, the final concentration of HCN is going to be very high.

8. Thus being anywhere near a typical unsealed cottage with an extremely high concentration of HCN gas inside would be suicide, gas mask or not. Gas masks of the day were not magic, and the filters had relatively short lives around high concentrations of gas. Gas masks are so you can GTFO of the poison, not so you can hang out and work in it for a long time.

Another point that's not really definitive but worth considering:

9. What about HCN precipitation in the room and on the bodies? It would be incredibly dangerous to enter any room where you just gassed a bunch of people with HCN in the manner described without doing repeated hot-air atmosphere exchanges to get as much HCN as possible out of the room. That takes a good amount of time even if you have the setup to do it. The cottage certainly didn't have that sort of setup. Neither did the "gas chamber" at Auschwitz.

-----

I have found other serious problems with the actual "gas chamber" setup at Auschwitz but that's not the subject of this discussion.

Further, in Groening's own account the SS men had already shot some of the prisoners. Why would they go with an incredibly hazardous method of killing the rest in the cottage by using HCN gas in an unsealed structure? Why not just shoot them? It's absurd, and that absurdity is found throughout the whole holocaust narrative.

How do you reconcile Nazis being okay with bashing babies' heads in right in front of their mothers with those same Nazis being unwilling to simply shoot prisoners?

The stories these "eyewitnesses" tell often match the official story even when it's fucking nonsense that the Nazis would've done things that way in a given situation. That tells me they're all just following a script. Many other "eyewitnesses" were also obviously lying because they made even more ridiculously impossible claims than Herr Groening here.

...And once again, if you're going to build your story on eyewitness testimony instead of physical evidence, you don't get to just ignore the witnesses and accused-participants who deny your version of events.

-----

I don't need to explain why Oskar Groening made his claims anymore than I need to explain why some "UFO abductee" crackpot makes his claims. If his story is obvious bullshit, I don't have to stop to wonder much about his motives to decide he's lying.

And at some point, when you've researched a topic enough to conclude that the whole official story is a crock of shit based on the physical evidence and primary sources available, you stop paying attention to "eyewitnesses" who claim the story is true. Eyewitness accounts are very weak on the evidence heirarchy, after all.

However, the first question I would ask regarding his motives is: does he have a family? I see he wrote memoirs "for his family" so I assume so. Maybe he's lying to protect them, because he knows if he denies the holocaust happened as the narrative claims he, and his family by extension, will be even further reviled.

Or maybe he's senile and actually believes the official narrative now, after hearing about it for 70+ years.

-------------

Two long essays worth reading regarding the holocaust eyewitness testimony:

Witnesses to the Gas Chambers of Auschwitz by Robert Faurisson

The Value of Testimony and Confessions Concerning the Holocaust by Manfred Köhler

I don't take everything I read from revisionists as gospel. I prefer to do my own investigation, as much as is practical. But I've found very little to object to in the approach taken by most of the holocaust revisionists whose works I've read. They are logical, rigorous, and well sourced. Meanwhile I find most pro-holocaust rebuttals laughable and best described as attempts to baffle the audience with pseudoscientific bullshit.
01-17-2017 06:17 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Holocaust fact finding thread - Valentine - 12-31-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-17-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - weambulance - 01-17-2017 06:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Menace - 04-12-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-02-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-05-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-06-2017, 12:42 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Nowak - 09-11-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-27-2018, 06:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-29-2018, 12:39 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Ruslan - 01-29-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Dusty - 04-12-2018, 07:42 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-13-2018, 07:44 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-14-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM
RE: Holohoax - blck - 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 06:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-17-2018, 03:12 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 05-02-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - kamoz - 05-19-2018, 07:52 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Lika - 05-23-2018, 03:15 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - fokker - 05-20-2018, 04:04 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - nola - 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - storm - 10-22-2018, 04:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-23-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:15 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-27-2018, 04:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 11-08-2018, 08:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-06-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 01-27-2020, 04:27 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Goni - 01-28-2020, 04:45 AM

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