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Holocaust fact finding thread
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Post: #293
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread
(09-05-2017 02:57 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  If you really are a historian, you could at least counter argument or poke some holes in what is presented here.

I said I would dig through this thread when I got the time later, and I am intending to keep that promise. I have been keeping notes on my observations as I been viewing all the material this week, and I have been looking for other stuff as well. I will be sure to write out what I think when I have gathered enough within reason. I did not study this area of history in college, so this is not my specialty area, so it may take a little while.

I would encourage you to dig yourself and at least see if anything makes sense to you or not and compare it with what you know.

Holocaust denial is such a lunatic idea that I don't think it warrants real examination or research, anymore than something like creationism does.

But, to satisfy your (and many other posters') curiosities, I'll take one of scorpion's posts, as he's been one of the more vigorous advocates for denialism.

(12-31-2016 02:43 PM)scorpion Wrote:  If you told me that tens or even hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered by the Nazis through deliberate starvation or directly by machine gunning them into pits, that would strike me as believable. But when you tell me that six million Jews were murdered in gas chambers (that were conveniently destroyed) and their bodies incinerated into fine ash (without a single gassed body remaining anywhere) and that zero surviving logistical, architectural, engineering or other written documentation exists to support that claim, I am highly skeptical. All we're left with is fragments of speeches and diaries taken out of context, confessions obtained through torture and preposterous eyewitness testimony. Honestly, for an alleged crime of this magnitude, shouldn't the evidence be utterly overwhelming? You find more hard evidence for a single murder. This is six millions alleged murders. Why is hard evidence so difficult to come by? Doesn't anyone else find it bizarre that you're reduced to proving the alleged murder of six million people in an industrial-scale genocide operation by quoting from a speech? Is that really the best evidence available? What does that say about the claim, if so?

There are a few significant issues with this account of events. First, he automatically assumes that all Jews who died were gassed; that there was no "Holocaust by bullets" as it were, and that nobody died of starvation/disease/etc. This is a straw man, and it's the same straw man that David Irving used during his defamation suit against Barbara Lipstadt. Anyone who knows anything about the Holocaust would know that Aktion Reinhard, the systematic use of gas chambers and concentration camps, did not start until mid-1942. However, as is entirely evident in documentary sources (c.f. Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men: Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland), mass executions of Jews were carried out long before that.

Essentially, the Germans would capture the area, the rear guard would come up, and a designated unit would gather all the Jews in a central area. They'd be sent on a forced march (often into a ravine/forest/etc.), forced to dig their own graves, and shot. It's estimated that this "Holocaust by bullets" killed between 1.5 and 2 million Jews.

In terms of the "lack of physical evidence" that scorpion is claiming, you have to keep in mind that the Nazis want to cover up evidence of their crimes. The large scale cremation of bodies occurs because of the fallout of the Katyn Forest massacre, which (as the Nazis saw) almost drove a wedge between the Soviets and the Western Allies. The "preposterous eyewitness testimony" remark is an attempt to cast aspersion on the thousands of verified accounts, as well as ignores the fact that the commandant of Auschwitz himself, Rudolf Hoss, wrote an autobiography in which he discussed the events of the Wannsee conference and the actions carried out at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

"For you yourselves are aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night" (1 Thess. 5:2)
09-05-2017 05:11 PM
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Messages In This Thread
Holocaust fact finding thread - Valentine - 12-31-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-17-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Menace - 04-12-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-02-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Truth Teller - 09-05-2017 05:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-05-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-06-2017, 12:42 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Nowak - 09-11-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-27-2018, 06:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-29-2018, 12:39 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Ruslan - 01-29-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Dusty - 04-12-2018, 07:42 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-13-2018, 07:44 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-14-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM
RE: Holohoax - blck - 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 06:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-17-2018, 03:12 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 05-02-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - kamoz - 05-19-2018, 07:52 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Lika - 05-23-2018, 03:15 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - fokker - 05-20-2018, 04:04 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - nola - 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - storm - 10-22-2018, 04:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-23-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:15 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-27-2018, 04:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 11-08-2018, 08:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-06-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM

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