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Holocaust fact finding thread
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david.garrett84 Offline
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Post: #432
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread
(05-19-2018 07:52 PM)kamoz Wrote:  Not sure what you are trying to get at by being sarcastic, but all these points illustrate what this thread is getting at: That WWII was numerous regional conflicts where various different nations devastated each other - Japan devastated China and other parts of SEA, Germany devastated Eastern Europe, US devastated Germany and Japan....the Jews are objectively only a tiny fraction of this yet are being blown way out of proportion. Maybe this was the point you were trying to make.

Let's not overstate this. Yes, Jews were a minority of WWII deaths but their Jewishness painted targets on their backs that could never be erased while the Nazis ruled most of Europe. The Jews were treated more harshly by the Nazis, much more harshly, than the otherwise hated Slavs were. Aside from scarce individual cases, Jews were never spared from persecution.

The only group that came close to Jews for being persecuted and exterminated by the Germans was the captured Red Army soldiers. Poles and others were certainly butchered, but the murdered Slavs basically had to win a kind of macabre lottery in order to be killed. This lottery was on display in Lidice in Bohemia, where the Nazis killed hundreds of or several thousand Czechs as reprisal work for the killing of Himmler's deputy Reinhard Heydrich. Tragic and inexcusable, but nevertheless confined to a limited area.

If "inferior" Slavic nations kowtowed to the Germans, they fared pretty well (murder is murder, yes, but mortality rates were lower when countries minimized their resistance). For example, the death rate in Slavic Czechoslovakia (partitioned into the military-governed Bohemia/Moravia and Hitler's direct ally Slovakia) was the same (ca. 3.5%) as the death rate in the supposedly Aryan Netherlands. Though the Czechs were not pro-Nazi like many Slovaks, they offered only piecemeal resistance to the Nazis, excluding the assassination of Heydrich in '42.

By contrast, the Poles experienced a 20% death rate. Even if you take out the Polish Jews, the death rate was 4-5 times higher in Poland than in the modern-day Czech Republic. The Poles erupted in revolt in '44 and had a very decently organized resistance, whereas the Czechs were essentially the last European people to be met by Allied soldiers and tanks. The Czechs also gave up without a shot in late '38 (the Sudetenland Crisis) and early '39 (the annexation of their lands), whilst the Poles fought pretty valiantly for around a month in '39.

Likewise, the Nordic Dutch experienced a higher death rate (2.5 times higher) than the non-Germanic French because they tended to resist more and collaborate less. This is despite the historical animosity between the Germans and French.

For the Jews, it didn't matter whether they resisted (generally they didn't).

I get your point, yet the Nazi policy towards the Jews, albeit originally contradictory, became a plan of genocide that lacks any firm parallel in the wider context of World War II.

Born Down Under, but I enjoy Slovakian Thunder: http://slovakia.travel/en/nove-zamky
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 12:13 AM by david.garrett84.)
05-22-2018 12:06 AM
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Messages In This Thread
Holocaust fact finding thread - Valentine - 12-31-2016, 01:57 AM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-01-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: The Holocaust (Holohoax?) Thread - Sp5 - 01-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-02-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-02-2017, 10:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 01-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 12:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - atlant - 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-03-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:11 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - XPQ22 - 01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Delta - 01-17-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-17-2017, 02:23 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 02-20-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 03-01-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Menace - 04-12-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-01-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-02-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 09-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-03-2017, 02:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Zep - 09-05-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 08:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 09-06-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Laska - 09-06-2017, 12:42 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Nowak - 09-11-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 01-28-2018, 05:07 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 01-27-2018, 06:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 01-29-2018, 12:39 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Ruslan - 01-29-2018, 04:53 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-11-2018, 02:04 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-11-2018, 03:20 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Dusty - 04-12-2018, 07:42 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 04-12-2018, 10:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-13-2018, 07:44 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-14-2018, 07:17 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 04-13-2018, 11:45 AM
RE: Holohoax - blck - 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 06:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-15-2018, 01:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Kona - 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 04-17-2018, 03:12 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 04-19-2018, 12:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Suits - 05-02-2018, 09:35 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - kamoz - 05-19-2018, 07:52 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - david.garrett84 - 05-22-2018 12:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Lika - 05-23-2018, 03:15 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - fokker - 05-20-2018, 04:04 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - nola - 05-23-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:06 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 07-26-2018, 03:55 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - storm - 10-22-2018, 04:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-23-2018, 01:34 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 01:54 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - Teedub - 10-24-2018, 02:56 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:15 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - rotekz - 10-27-2018, 04:00 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 10-25-2018, 10:24 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - amity - 11-08-2018, 08:33 AM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-06-2019, 04:48 PM
RE: Holocaust fact finding thread - 911 - 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM

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