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Fee-based Investment Advisers
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Menace Offline
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Post: #1
Fee-based Investment Advisers
I think in investing it's important to know yourself and be realistic about how much work you're willing to do. I think I'm kind of a lazy guy in this aspect, and am unlikely to spend hours and hours poring over financials to find the best investments.

I know there a lot of investment advisers out there who charge large fees with questionable value-add. Have any of you heard of or used any of the following companies for your investments?

Wealthfront
Personal Capital
Covestor
Betterment

The only investment service I have ever used was the Motley Fool Adviser, which cost about $160/year for you to get their monthly newsletter with stock suggestions. I think it was certainly worth it.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012 11:25 AM by Menace.)
02-23-2012 11:25 AM
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thegmanifesto Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
Although I don't get it, I would get Marc Faber's Gloom Boom and Doom report: http://new.gloomboomdoom.com/portalgbd/homegbd.cfm

If you are not familiar with the cat, I just did a post on him: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2012/02/mar...bines.html

I was just reading one of his free reports from 2003 (because he was talking about Chaing Mai, and I am thinking of going there), and it is amazing how many things he was right about in 2003 that happened later.

The cat is a straight G.

Loves nightlife and swooping girls too.

So he is A+ in my book.

- MPM
The Guide to Getting More out of Life
http://www.thegmanifesto.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/michaelporfirio

Michael Mason's Facebook

The G Manifesto Facebook Page

Grew up with gorillas, you grew up on Twitter, don’t care if you follow me.

"Can't be like the rest", is the most I'll confess.
02-23-2012 11:54 AM
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Entropy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-23-2012 11:25 AM)Menace Wrote:  I think in investing it's important to know yourself and be realistic about how much work you're willing to do. I think I'm kind of a lazy guy in this aspect, and am unlikely to spend hours and hours poring over financials to find the best investments.

I know there a lot of investment advisers out there who charge large fees with questionable value-add. Have any of you heard of or used any of the following companies for your investments?

Wealthfront
Personal Capital
Covestor
Betterment

The only investment service I have ever used was the Motley Fool Adviser, which cost about $160/year for you to get their monthly newsletter with stock suggestions. I think it was certainly worth it.


No. I dont do motley fool advisor either

Just grab investors business daily newspaper and "how to make money in stocks" by william o'neil. In fact, you get a free copy of the book if you get the newspaper. After a year or 2, your returns should start looking up.

2 yrs is nothing. 2009 is past and gone. Imagine if you started then.

But from your post, i take it that you dont want to put in the hours....best of luck.


ADDENDUM:
I dont mean to sound negative, but...as i have learned in life over and over: If you want something done the right way, do it yourself...or pay really good money for seriously qualified professionals(in certain cases such as investment or trading, it probabluy means, you have to be a millionaire or knows a close friend or relative that is solid and good and willing to take you in). The amount of effort requires to probably invest does not make it cost/benefit to bother with people with $25k. Unless it is your own money. I was looking at wealthfront guys qualifications and board member and venture capitalists. I wont invest a 2 cent with any of them i dont care what they claim their return on risk is....The fact that they have venture capitalists will undoubtedly creates tiered-levels of risk exposure....which means....some people will be left holding the bag when shit hits the fan..... The process-engine is just as important, if not slightly more important than the outcome. With a good engine, the outcome will most likely take care of itself. Dont like the rest of them either. Maybe somebody has experience with them they can let us know. I could be completely wrong.

#2. I have read more financial books and articles than i care to remember....i never came across anybody that got rich following the buy/sell tips of advisors. I know people that got rich grinding out the pain themselves. But people that got rich following recommendations and tips? Havent seen one. I could be missing something though. In the interest of full disclosure: I wont deny my inclinations here: i am the kind of person that likes to figure things on my own and master it. I like the feeling of being in charge of my success and failures. Independent. Master of my own domain and destiny. Setting up for my future is too important to be left to tips and stuff. Anyways, just buckle down, make a multiyear plan, select a good info base(peter lynch or william o'neil) and get busy. Being rich is never going to be easy. It never is. Eventually, you will get to the point where you are consistently winning trades and you can almost taste it: breaking the $500k barrier.....you know it is right around the corner...just have to maintain discipline and focus. That is where i am right now. From there, in a couple of gallops you are over $1million....then $2mill...then $3mill.....etc

(i just think i should add that...i dont mean to come across as being dispiriting.)
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012 12:33 PM by Entropy.)
02-23-2012 12:03 PM
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Menace Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
Entropy, I certainly appreciate your candor. You are probably right. I guess it's too much to expect to be able to invest with some dude on a website and get rich. The question I have is, what kind of returns could these strategies produce. Maybe you, through your hard work can get 50% in a year...but can these guys get 10%? Or are you suggesting that they are not any better than simply plopping your cash into SPY and calling it a day?
02-23-2012 12:26 PM
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Entropy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-23-2012 12:26 PM)Menace Wrote:  Entropy, I certainly appreciate your candor. You are probably right. I guess it's too much to expect to be able to invest with some dude on a website and get rich. The question I have is, what kind of returns could these strategies produce. Maybe you, through your hard work can get 50% in a year...but can these guys get 10%? Or are you suggesting that they are not any better than simply plopping your cash into SPY and calling it a day?

I am not an expert on these investing houses or mutual funds or PIPES or for that matter, fund of funds. I am daytrading/swingtrading person.

There is the dogs of the dow approach...i believed i wrote about it here.

If you are going to invest...it is important to grill the shit out of them, meeting them face to face...reading books on risk and investment before hand...i suggest that a person get books on how to choose the right funds(hedge funds or otherwise). Even though you dont have a million bucks. Having trading/investing experience helps: because you will know how difficult it is, and that will equip you with nose for bullshit, and, that will help fine tune your questions. Talk to a bunch of different investment professionals and tax experts...etc. The due diligence has to be exceptional. It is your money, afterall.

maybe others have experience with investing....because i am a trader...this is the best that i know how. When i am rich enough to investment...i will do two things: (a)Park my money in high-yielding, inflation adjusted foreign bonds of stable countries (2)find solid real estate rental properties. There will be time enough for learn the detailed in and out of that, when i get there. Right now, i trade along...
02-23-2012 12:55 PM
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Neo Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-23-2012 11:25 AM)Menace Wrote:  I think in investing it's important to know yourself and be realistic about how much work you're willing to do. I think I'm kind of a lazy guy in this aspect, and am unlikely to spend hours and hours poring over financials to find the best investments.

I know there a lot of investment advisers out there who charge large fees with questionable value-add. Have any of you heard of or used any of the following companies for your investments?

Wealthfront
Personal Capital
Covestor
Betterment

The only investment service I have ever used was the Motley Fool Adviser, which cost about $160/year for you to get their monthly newsletter with stock suggestions. I think it was certainly worth it.

I have never used those companies, but I can tell you about the financial service industry because I was in it for a few years. As entropy wrote I would do the research and do things yourself. William O'Neil is pretty good, I have his book "How to Make Money In Stocks" and in fact it was the first book on investing I ever got. It's pretty solid and his paper IBD is also pretty good.

In terms of the industry, I can tell you its a somewhat shady business and after being in it no way in hell would I trust the majority of those people with my money. Some were morally good people with good intentions, the majority were not. While obviously I can't speak for every company or every person where I worked(a major one) we had fee based and commission based planners. A lot of them like to tell you things like 'If you don't make money I don't make money.' which is technically true because planners are paid a percentage of assets under management(in addition to commissions when selling certain products such as insurance and annuities). The reality of it is that to actually make money as a planner you need a shit ton of clients or a few clients who are extremely wealthy. So it's pretty much a numbers game in accumulating clients and it's extremely difficult for them to actually care about the money of one specific person as there's no time for that.

Furthermore when I spoke to a lot of them their investment knowledge was pretty poor, they were just good sales people. Add to that witnessing a bunch of morally reprehensible things I've seen done(Blatant lies, replacing/churning insurance policies just for commissions, trades just for commissions, etc. etc.) I wouldn't put my money there.

Anyway, I'm sure there are good ones out there, but I would just do it myself.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012 12:58 PM by Neo.)
02-23-2012 12:55 PM
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rozayINTL Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-23-2012 11:54 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Although I don't get it, I would get Marc Faber's Gloom Boom and Doom report: http://new.gloomboomdoom.com/portalgbd/homegbd.cfm

If you are not familiar with the cat, I just did a post on him: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2012/02/mar...bines.html

I was just reading one of his free reports from 2003 (because he was talking about Chaing Mai, and I am thinking of going there), and it is amazing how many things he was right about in 2003 that happened later.

The cat is a straight G.

Loves nightlife and swooping girls too.

So he is A+ in my book.

I've always been a skeptic of Faber, I couldn't stand his pessimism. However something he did recently really impressed me. He got back into stocks in Nov/Dec.. if you look at the charts for most companies starting November through until now. Pretty remarkable. Especially for a guy like that who is a huge bear on the U.S. (admittedly for good reason) it's impressive to see moves like that.
02-23-2012 10:03 PM
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thegmanifesto Offline
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RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-23-2012 10:03 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  
(02-23-2012 11:54 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Although I don't get it, I would get Marc Faber's Gloom Boom and Doom report: http://new.gloomboomdoom.com/portalgbd/homegbd.cfm

If you are not familiar with the cat, I just did a post on him: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2012/02/mar...bines.html

I was just reading one of his free reports from 2003 (because he was talking about Chaing Mai, and I am thinking of going there), and it is amazing how many things he was right about in 2003 that happened later.

The cat is a straight G.

Loves nightlife and swooping girls too.

So he is A+ in my book.

I've always been a skeptic of Faber, I couldn't stand his pessimism. However something he did recently really impressed me. He got back into stocks in Nov/Dec.. if you look at the charts for most companies starting November through until now. Pretty remarkable. Especially for a guy like that who is a huge bear on the U.S. (admittedly for good reason) it's impressive to see moves like that.

Yeah, the guy has got moves for sure.

Saw this quote recently:

People say I'm a pessimist. I always say no - if you drive motorcycles in Thailand, you have to be an optimist. - Marc Faber

- MPM
The Guide to Getting More out of Life
http://www.thegmanifesto.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/michaelporfirio

Michael Mason's Facebook

The G Manifesto Facebook Page

Grew up with gorillas, you grew up on Twitter, don’t care if you follow me.

"Can't be like the rest", is the most I'll confess.
02-23-2012 10:22 PM
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Menace Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
Good tips. I'll get that book.
02-26-2012 09:50 AM
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Jack Of All Trades Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
if you really want to invest I concur with entropy do the legwork yourself and start doing your own legwork. Read as much as possible on the subject, start with baby steps and if you use brokers and advisors use them as a tool/commodity not for advice ex: I want to look into this stock, broker get me the analyst reports on it, info on the institutional investors who own it and their takes on where the stock is going.

if you want to do some legwork, read:
The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham ---> Buy it, own it, borrow it whatever ***it's a must read for ANY investor***
Warren Buffett's shareholder letters, read ALL of them
valueinvestorsclub.com ---> AWESOME FREE SITE!!! I was at a business cocktail and a portfolio manager suggested it to me
02-26-2012 01:25 PM
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Entropy Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
(02-26-2012 01:25 PM)zeeman Wrote:  if you really want to invest I concur with entropy do the legwork yourself and start doing your own legwork. Read as much as possible on the subject, start with baby steps and if you use brokers and advisors use them as a tool/commodity not for advice ex: I want to look into this stock, broker get me the analyst reports on it, info on the institutional investors who own it and their takes on where the stock is going.

if you want to do some legwork, read:
The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham ---> Buy it, own it, borrow it whatever ***it's a must read for ANY investor***
Warren Buffett's shareholder letters, read ALL of them
valueinvestorsclub.com ---> AWESOME FREE SITE!!! I was at a business cocktail and a portfolio manager suggested it to me

Never got to benjamin graham...in know that warren buffet love the shit out of it. i was told that it sound dated with all those references to railroad, etc. The one that i have is for the MBA students: i have the stephen penman's financial statement analysis and security valuations.

I heard that warren buffet newsletter is priceless.

i will take a look at valueinvestorsclub.com. and see what is up.
02-26-2012 03:46 PM
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defguy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Fee-based Investment Advisers
Im not a fan of taking the advice of Guru's, every statistical analysis I have seen shows they lose more than 50% of the time, Ive been tempted just to do the opposites of what they say. The closest Ive gotten is telling a broker to find me fast growth stocks in the early trend so I didnt have to do the legwork but then your just spammed with phone calls asking to switch to a newer "faster growing" stock every few days. In a few months I am going to give live trading rooms a try. This is the one I have my eye on:

http://fxlivedaytrading.com/

A lot of people have been saying good things, I figure Ill sit in on a few live sessions and see if its worth putting my money to work in the Forex Market.
02-26-2012 05:29 PM
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