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How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
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Brian Offline
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Post: #76
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 09:54 AM)Menace Wrote:  Ultimately, the character of Zimmerman or Martin doesn't matter. Bad grades or getting suspended from school are not factors that justify killing someone. It's easy to get angry about the media portrayal of this event as white guy kills black guy, which in this case is both untrue and unfair. I think it's BS too. It's happening because there is just no solid information about what happened, so people naturally have to fill things in.

Martin is dead, and Zimmerman killed him. No one seems to be disputing that. All that really matters is determining whether Zimmerman's killing was justifiable under the law or not. The big failure here was the police department's failure to investigate the killing.

I have to agree that it was incredibly stupid of Obama to make comments about his case, but it's election season, so I'm not surprised.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I disagree with you saying the police department didnt investigate the killing. Zimmerman was cuffed and questioned at the scene, 911 tapes were viewed, and witnesses were questioned. The issue is more a lack of information then a failure to seek it out.
03-26-2012 10:20 AM
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assman Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 10:18 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 09:06 AM)assman Wrote:  No relevant facts, just tenuous (at best) links to the issue at hand.

Here is an example of ALEC at work. A publicly traded corporation worked through ALEC to get Arizona's controversial anti-immigration law passed. The company was seeking to increase its market with an inmate population that is not well regarded in the states, is cheap to house because they are being warehoused with no programing, and Arizona actually passed legislation that provides exclusive tax incentives for companies that operate prisons. The company in this example actually builds prisons on "speculation" and gets small towns to buy into these projects for the promise of jobs. Once the bonds are sold and there are financial interests, there also becomes an incentive to keep the prisons full, which, in turn, leads to greater profits for Wall Street investors.

http://www.npr.org/2010/10/28/130833741/...ration-law
I'm not arguing about ALEC. I'm saying that Krugman isn't making a legitimate argument against stand your ground.

As for crony capitalism, both sides of the aisle are in the pockets of large corporations. Just look at Obama's biggest donors. Pretty much the same as Romney's biggest donors.

Also, re: Krugman, I find it incredibly ironic that he is railing against crony capitalism. Where do you think he was on the Wall Street bailouts of 2008?
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 11:00 AM by assman.)
03-26-2012 10:59 AM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
Nearly three in four Americans think police should arrest George Zimmerman after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin one month ago in Florida, according to a CNN/ORC poll released today.

In the same survey, only about one in four felt that neighborhood watch members should carry guns, but a little more than half approved of "stand your ground" laws.
03-26-2012 11:03 AM
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assman Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
Here's an interview the other day with a pro-2A guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5cm91dFXJo

The one thing I wish he would have mentioned is that the other rights guaranteed by the Constitution aren't worth the paper they are printed on if you don't have the Second Amendment (though I suppose he indirectly made the point by noting that totalitarian regimes always institute gun control). We can lose all our other rights (which has been happening under Bush and Obama), but if we can hold onto 2A, we can get the others back. Lose 2A, and the others are worthless.

2A is the reset switch the founding fathers provided for when government no longer serves the people.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 11:11 AM by assman.)
03-26-2012 11:07 AM
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Brian Offline
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Post: #80
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 11:03 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  Nearly three in four Americans think police should arrest George Zimmerman after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin one month ago in Florida, according to a CNN/ORC poll released today.

In the same survey, only about one in four felt that neighborhood watch members should carry guns, but a little more than half approved of "stand your ground" laws.

It doesnt matter if 99% of Americans think he should be arrested, we are a nation of laws and if what he did was within the letter of the law - and the police seem to think it was - he should not be arrested, especially if it is just to appease an increasingly stupider American public.
03-26-2012 11:19 AM
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ATTA Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 09:30 AM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 09:16 AM)ATTA Wrote:  
(03-23-2012 05:09 PM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  
(03-23-2012 04:11 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(03-23-2012 03:33 PM)Samseau Wrote:  
Do me a favor. This is in the news because black people spoke up about it and white-controlled media outlets began reporting it. Furthermore, most white people of certain social class know the kid who wanted to be cop or a soldier and for whatever reason couldn't cut it. Fast-forward ten years, a hundred Chuck Norris movies later, and you have Mr. Zimmerman. This says nothing of Zimmerman's guilt, innocence or of his race. I can tell you that there are no shortage of angry, afc white dudes who'd do the same thing. Any American white man who disagrees with me needs to get their eyes and ears checked.

Get over yourself. I disagree with you and I don't need to be 'checked'.

Heh. If you say so...

Do me a favor. This is in the news because black people are loved by the white (libera/multiculturalist loving) media outlets. The MSM refuses to mention black-on-white crime at every turn and down-play the amazing ability of blacks to commit robberies, rapes, assaults, flash mobs, and murders disproportionate to their numbers. I can tell you there is no shortage of violent blacks who would wear hoodies and look like thugs, get suspended from school for 10 days, fight a guy for asking what he's doing in a neighborhood, and than have have his momma/Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton/liberals/Communists/anti-white bigots hoot and holler when little Treyvon gets shot with the gold grillzzzzz. Any American black man who disagrees with me needs to get their eyes and ears checked.

[Image: Trayvon_Martin.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 11:30 AM by ATTA.)
03-26-2012 11:28 AM
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
Prediction:

Zimmerman will be found innocent.

Contributor at Return of Kings. I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
03-26-2012 11:34 AM
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Baldwin81 Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 11:28 AM)ATTA Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 09:30 AM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 09:16 AM)ATTA Wrote:  
(03-23-2012 05:09 PM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  
(03-23-2012 04:11 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
Do me a favor. This is in the news because black people spoke up about it and white-controlled media outlets began reporting it. Furthermore, most white people of certain social class know the kid who wanted to be cop or a soldier and for whatever reason couldn't cut it. Fast-forward ten years, a hundred Chuck Norris movies later, and you have Mr. Zimmerman. This says nothing of Zimmerman's guilt, innocence or of his race. I can tell you that there are no shortage of angry, afc white dudes who'd do the same thing. Any American white man who disagrees with me needs to get their eyes and ears checked.

Get over yourself. I disagree with you and I don't need to be 'checked'.

Heh. If you say so...

Do me a favor. [Image: Trayvon_Martin.jpg]

I knew someone would latch on that Zimmerman stereotype and come back with what you just posted. Thanks for proving the point of my original post...

Both "sides" in this case are so fucking predictable.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 12:14 PM by Baldwin81.)
03-26-2012 12:12 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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Post: #84
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 11:28 AM)ATTA Wrote:  Do me a favor. This is in the news because black people spoke up about it and white-controlled media outlets began reporting it. Furthermore, most white people of certain social class know the kid who wanted to be cop or a soldier and for whatever reason couldn't cut it. Fast-forward ten years, a hundred Chuck Norris movies later, and you have Mr. Zimmerman. This says nothing of Zimmerman's guilt, innocence or of his race. I can tell you that there are no shortage of angry, afc white dudes who'd do the same thing. Any American white man who disagrees with me needs to get their eyes and ears checked.

Trayvon Martin: No, That's Not His Facebook Page Showing "Gangsta" Photos

source for the photo: white power message board Stormfront

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2...not_hi.php
03-26-2012 01:21 PM
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Menace Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
Some more reporting: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...k-teenager

Based on this, I'd say Zimmerman's case is stronger than it seemed (at least to me). The surface media impression you get is that a black kid was walking down the street and a (white) guy just caps him. Doesn't look like that's what happened.
03-26-2012 01:54 PM
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jariel Offline
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Post: #86
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 01:21 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  Trayvon Martin: No, That's Not His Facebook Page Showing "Gangsta" Photos

source for the photo: white power message board Stormfront

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2...not_hi.php

These people want this kid to be a bad kid so bad so they can blame him for his own death.

Black people getting murdered in this country are not seen as victims, that's why time and time again, the people who commit the crimes just walk, unless it's Black on Black crime, which as far as this society is concerned is the best crime, because you get to throw the perpetrators in jail and bury the victims, WIN-WIN!

86% of whites who are murdered in this country are killed by whites, so please stop talking about Black on Black crime, murders in this country are mostly intra-racial.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 03:06 PM by jariel.)
03-26-2012 02:14 PM
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BortimusPrime Offline
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Post: #87
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
I think the problem with framing Stand Your Ground as a right to arm bears issue is that it's one of those laws that sounds good to libertarians but in the end only benefits corporations. Figure if this corporate lobbying group is pushing this law in other states, there has to be a reason beyond just a potential increase in gun sales. My guess is that having looser restrictions on private citizens shooting people makes it more viable to use private security contractors. Look at how well that went in Iraq.

It makes sense when you think about it: the people who stay up at night worrying about if they'll get in trouble shooting people who attack them are what we in the internet forum commenting industry refer to as "paranoid loonies". Normal people don't arm themselves to the teeth and hide in their living room watching their front yard to wait for the expected negroid hordes to descend upon them. For reference, here's an example of the type of people I'm talking about:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...f-defense/

Now, the thing about loonies is that there aren't that many of them, and they aren't super wealthy. This makes them easily ignored by politicians. Thus, for a big lobbying group to actually have an interest in promoting their agenda, there's got to be a secondary benefit to big business. In the end I bet Stand Your Ground will protect a lot more security guards shooting homeless people than gun nuts attacked by minorities.
03-26-2012 02:53 PM
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assman Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 02:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  I think the problem with framing Stand Your Ground as a right to arm bears issue is that it's one of those laws that sounds good to libertarians but in the end only benefits corporations. Figure if this corporate lobbying group is pushing this law in other states, there has to be a reason beyond just a potential increase in gun sales. My guess is that having looser restrictions on private citizens shooting people makes it more viable to use private security contractors. Look at how well that went in Iraq.

It makes sense when you think about it: the people who stay up at night worrying about if they'll get in trouble shooting people who attack them are what we in the internet forum commenting industry refer to as "paranoid loonies". Normal people don't arm themselves to the teeth and hide in their living room watching their front yard to wait for the expected negroid hordes to descend upon them. For reference, here's an example of the type of people I'm talking about:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...f-defense/

Now, the thing about loonies is that there aren't that many of them, and they aren't super wealthy. This makes them easily ignored by politicians. Thus, for a big lobbying group to actually have an interest in promoting their agenda, there's got to be a secondary benefit to big business. In the end I bet Stand Your Ground will protect a lot more security guards shooting homeless people than gun nuts attacked by minorities.
More wild conjecture. There is a very large lobbying group you may have heard of - it's called the NRA. Funded mostly by regular people who wish to preserve their Constitutional rights against the marxists and fascists on both sides of the aisle who wish they could make the Second Amendment disappear, but failing that, will impose more and more restrictions every chance they get. As Eric Holder said, they need to brainwash the citizenry with regards to guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nM0asnCXD0

I posted a scenario earlier in this thread about how things might go down under duty to retreat (which is what you have without stand your ground) which got no rebuttals. Does anyone here want to live like that? Always having to tuck tail and run whenever a thug (who cares less about the health and legal consequences of a physical altercation than you do) wants you to?
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 03:20 PM by assman.)
03-26-2012 03:08 PM
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Brian Offline
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Post: #89
RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
so little harmless Trayvon was actually suspended from school for marijuana possession, punched Zimmerman, then slammed his head into the ground...
03-26-2012 03:34 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
So Trayvon was 6'3" 140 lbs. And Zimmerman is 5'9" 250lbs. Can anyone confirm?
03-26-2012 03:39 PM
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Brian Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 03:39 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  So Trayvon was 6'3" 140 lbs. And Zimmerman is 5'9" 250lbs. Can anyone confirm?

I didnt realize it was ok to attack someone was long as you had a weight advantage.
03-26-2012 03:43 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 03:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 03:39 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  So Trayvon was 6'3" 140 lbs. And Zimmerman is 5'9" 250lbs. Can anyone confirm?

I didnt realize it was ok to attack someone was long as you had a weight advantage.

So it's true that Z is 28 years old and 110 lbs heavier?
03-26-2012 03:45 PM
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jariel Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 03:45 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 03:43 PM)Brian Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 03:39 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  So Trayvon was 6'3" 140 lbs. And Zimmerman is 5'9" 250lbs. Can anyone confirm?

I didnt realize it was ok to attack someone was long as you had a weight advantage.

So it's true that Z is 28 years old and 110 lbs heavier?

Yes it's true, not to mention he also had a loaded gun.

You're wasting your time talking to that dude about it.

He's talking about marijuana and shit like he or no one he associates with has ever smoked weed, as if that's even that serious of an offense.

As long as they can besmirch the kid's name, they can rationalize to themselves that he deserved to die.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 03:52 PM by jariel.)
03-26-2012 03:50 PM
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Brian Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
Look, its not like I enjoy reading about some little black kid getting shot. I feel for his parents. But this whole thing has become so ridiculous its absurd and the people blowing it out of proportion are just fawning all over themselves to get people riled up and trying to turn it into a 'kill whitey' moment when its so far from that its obscene.
03-26-2012 03:59 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
So if Z listens to the police and doesn't follow him, we wouldn't have this mess?
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 05:07 PM by JayMillz.)
03-26-2012 05:07 PM
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BortimusPrime Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 03:08 PM)assman Wrote:  
(03-26-2012 02:53 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  I think the problem with framing Stand Your Ground as a right to arm bears issue is that it's one of those laws that sounds good to libertarians but in the end only benefits corporations. Figure if this corporate lobbying group is pushing this law in other states, there has to be a reason beyond just a potential increase in gun sales. My guess is that having looser restrictions on private citizens shooting people makes it more viable to use private security contractors. Look at how well that went in Iraq.

It makes sense when you think about it: the people who stay up at night worrying about if they'll get in trouble shooting people who attack them are what we in the internet forum commenting industry refer to as "paranoid loonies". Normal people don't arm themselves to the teeth and hide in their living room watching their front yard to wait for the expected negroid hordes to descend upon them. For reference, here's an example of the type of people I'm talking about:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...f-defense/

Now, the thing about loonies is that there aren't that many of them, and they aren't super wealthy. This makes them easily ignored by politicians. Thus, for a big lobbying group to actually have an interest in promoting their agenda, there's got to be a secondary benefit to big business. In the end I bet Stand Your Ground will protect a lot more security guards shooting homeless people than gun nuts attacked by minorities.
More wild conjecture. There is a very large lobbying group you may have heard of - it's called the NRA. Funded mostly by regular people who wish to preserve their Constitutional rights against the marxists and fascists on both sides of the aisle who wish they could make the Second Amendment disappear, but failing that, will impose more and more restrictions every chance they get. As Eric Holder said, they need to brainwash the citizenry with regards to guns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nM0asnCXD0

I posted a scenario earlier in this thread about how things might go down under duty to retreat (which is what you have without stand your ground) which got no rebuttals. Does anyone here want to live like that? Always having to tuck tail and run whenever a thug (who cares less about the health and legal consequences of a physical altercation than you do) wants you to?

Some would say the wild conjecture is that there is a marxist conspiracy to take our guns away and impose a totalitarian state.

And frankly I'd rather run away from a thug than get shot in the face and have the cops let the guy go because he's the one left alive to make up the story about what happened.
03-26-2012 05:07 PM
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Brian Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 05:07 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  So if Z listens to the police and doesn't follow him, we wouldn't have this mess?

it never ceases to amaze me how far people will go to avoid responsibility.
03-26-2012 05:14 PM
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 09:03 AM)Brian Wrote:  ...So what did he do to get suspended from school for 5 days?

According to one of his teachers it was excessive tardiness.

EDIT: Other reports link the suspension to an empty marijuana baggie.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2012 05:55 PM by joehoya.)
03-26-2012 05:47 PM
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Kona Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
So a group called the New Black Panther Party put a 10k bounty on this Zimmerman guy's head.

Is this guy on the run or something?

Did they put a hit out on him?

I don't understand.

Aloha!
03-26-2012 05:48 PM
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JayMillz Offline
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RE: How ALEC Took Florida's 'License to Kill' Law National
(03-26-2012 05:48 PM)Kona Wrote:  Did they put a hit out on him?

I don't understand.

Aloha!

According to the website, it's for someone to make a legal citizen's arrest for murder/hate crime.
03-26-2012 05:54 PM
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