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July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
(08-09-2012 04:30 PM)painter Wrote:  Still waiting to hear some facts... is it an ice age, global warming or climate change I should be trembling in fear from? Or the sun going supernova in a few thousand years?

It was hot this summer, I agree. The last time it was this hot was 1936. So how hot is it going to be in 2088? Is it going to be one degree hotter every year between now and then (a 76 degree rise)? Half a degree hotter? A quarter? If it's well established that heat will rise then shouldn't it already be 125 degrees every day? And where and when was all this well established, an al gore movie?

I used to believe in this until it turned out that "scientists" were just making it all up as they went along in order to keep the gravy train rolling. What Samseau said is dead on, "science cannot prove anything. It can only disprove things."

It's clear from your glib reply that you have already made your mind up and no amount of facts is going to change it. So why even ask? These questions have already been answered ad nauseum and can be found with a Google search.

Indisputable facts:

The level of carbon dioxide is increasing faster than the ecosystem can absorb it.

This rise is almost entirely due to industrialization.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.

Greenhouse gases cause the global temperature to rise.

Rising temperatures will have an influence on climate. More powerful storms and hurricanes. Rising sea levels. And remember cities like New York and Miami are at sea level. Even a small increase in sea levels will turn them into Venice. You will have more droughts and more desertification.

Obviously doing something about climate change is going to be a monumental task, but let's at least stop deluding ourselves about its existence. Pretending its not there isn't going to make it go away. Every month will go by and we'll keep getting new reports about how last month was the hottest on record.

As for the science can't prove the existence of something, that's nonsense. Almost every day for example new extrasolar planets are found using scientific methods. How does your maxim hold up to that?
08-09-2012 05:10 PM
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durangotang Offline
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Post: #27
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
I used to believe in man made global warming. I took several people close to me to go see "An Inconvenient Truth," Al Gores movie, on separate occasions. I watched that thing three times in the theater. I would fight and argue with "deniers." Then someone I trusted started to challenge the veracity of AGW (anthropogenic global warming). So I started to take a contrarian look. The amount of money, conspiracy, fraud, and everything else going on was mind blowing. Needless to say I no longer believe in man made global warming. For anyone who is interested, following are a few videos, articles and speeches that changed my mind. Enjoy.

Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

The Great Global Warming Swindle:




Climate Gate for Dummies




Global Warming is a lie - Lord Christopher Monckton




Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" - Global Warming




And three excellent speeches by Michael Crichton on the matter, which are thought provoking. Here's the link to the PDF.

I’d rather be far right, than far wrong!
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2016 02:40 AM by durangotang.)
08-09-2012 05:57 PM
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painter Offline
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Post: #28
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
Thanks for posting a ton of excellent information, durangotang. Michael Crichton was the guy who first put the questions into my mind and from there it all just fell apart.

I think global warming is a phenomenon born out of too many people living in cities. When you're surrounded by concrete, glass, steel and asphalt for your whole life and there's so much light pollution you've never even seen the real sky at night, yeah, things look pretty grim.

Does it need to be studied? Of course. Do we need to waste a trillion dollars on it? No.
08-09-2012 06:42 PM
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Tuthmosis Offline
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Post: #29
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
   

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08-09-2012 06:45 PM
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durangotang Offline
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Post: #30
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
Tuth, take the red pill.

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08-09-2012 07:11 PM
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Giovonny Offline
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Post: #31
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
(08-08-2012 10:08 PM)painter Wrote:  
(08-08-2012 09:45 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Thirty years ago they were predicting the impending Ice Age....

Exactly, one day it's an imminent ice age, the next it's global warming, and now it's this mysterious climate change. Take your pick, slap some "science" together and see how many suckers you can scare.

They can't give an accurate 10 day weather forecast but a logical man is supposed to believe they know what it's going to be like in 10, 20, 30 years? I'm not buying it.

It's called weather, now get on with your life.

My mom says that in the 70's global cooling was the big scare. Everyone was scared of an ice age.

We have have only been keeping records for 117 years which is not a very long time in terms of global climate change, right?

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if humans are causing the earth to warm. We probably are, but I wouldn't know, I live near the ocean in San Francisco. I'm cold.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2012 12:45 AM by Giovonny.)
08-10-2012 12:43 AM
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Samseau Online
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Post: #32
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
(08-09-2012 05:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  As for the science can't prove the existence of something, that's nonsense. Almost every day for example new extrasolar planets are found using scientific methods. How does your maxim hold up to that?

We used to believe Pluto was a planet.


Science is nothing more than useful conjectures. Sometimes we're proven wrong, other times we aren't. We keep the most useful conjectures until we find a more useful one.

And since we don't know everything there is to know, we never really know how good our science is. Thus nothing is certain and science cannot prove anything.

(Obviously this is a short reply... do you really want to go deep into epistemology with me Speak?)
08-10-2012 01:08 AM
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Handsome Creepy Eel Offline
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Post: #33
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
I am flabbergasted at the sheer number of otherwise science-minded and reasonable individuals proclaiming opposition to global warming. It's very weird to say that there have been no changes in either average temperatures OR extreme events (both are rising, and noticeably) or that we don't know why they're happening (it's well-explained).

Although, on the other hand, I do understand why it's easy to be fooled by short-term fluctuations and think that nothing is really happening. This psychological process is explained here quite well:

Loading the Climate Dice Wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/opinio....html?_r=1
A couple of weeks ago the Northeast was in the grip of a severe heat wave. As I write this, however, it’s a fairly cool day in New Jersey, considering that it’s late July. Weather is like that; it fluctuates.

And this banal observation may be what dooms us to climate catastrophe, in two ways. On one side, the variability of temperatures from day to day and year to year makes it easy to miss, ignore or obscure the longer-term upward trend. On the other, even a fairly modest rise in average temperatures translates into a much higher frequency of extreme events — like the devastating drought now gripping America’s heartland — that do vast damage.

On the first point: Even with the best will in the world, it would be hard for most people to stay focused on the big picture in the face of short-run fluctuations. When the mercury is high and the crops are withering, everyone talks about it, and some make the connection to global warming. But let the days grow a bit cooler and the rains fall, and inevitably people’s attention turns to other matters.

Making things much worse, of course, is the role of players who don’t have the best will in the world. Climate change denial is a major industry, lavishly financed by Exxon, the Koch brothers and others with a financial stake in the continued burning of fossil fuels. (HCE's comment: the article I linked to earlier in the thread explains why all of these players depend on using not only the fossil fuels we are burning at a current rate, but also all of the world reserves currently known and held by fossil fuel companies or countries that act like one And exploiting variability is one of the key tricks of that industry’s trade. Applications range from the Fox News perennial — “It’s cold outside! Al Gore was wrong!” — to the constant claims that we’re experiencing global cooling, not warming, because it’s not as hot right now as it was a few years back.

How should we think about the relationship between climate change and day-to-day experience? Almost a quarter of a century ago James Hansen, the NASA scientist who did more than anyone to put climate change on the agenda, suggested the analogy of loaded dice. Imagine, he and his associates suggested, representing the probabilities of a hot, average or cold summer by historical standards as a die with two faces painted red, two white and two blue. By the early 21st century, they predicted, it would be as if four of the faces were red, one white and one blue. Hot summers would become much more frequent, but there would still be cold summers now and then.

And so it has proved. As documented in a new paper by Dr. Hansen and others, cold summers by historical standards still happen, but rarely, while hot summers have in fact become roughly twice as prevalent. And 9 of the 10 hottest years on record have occurred since 2000.

But that’s not all: really extreme high temperatures, the kind of thing that used to happen very rarely in the past, have now become fairly common. Think of it as rolling two sixes, which happens less than 3 percent of the time with fair dice, but more often when the dice are loaded. And this rising incidence of extreme events, reflecting the same variability of weather that can obscure the reality of climate change, means that the costs of climate change aren’t a distant prospect, decades in the future. On the contrary, they’re already here, even though so far global temperatures are only about 1 degree Fahrenheit above their historical norms, a small fraction of their eventual rise if we don’t act.

[Image: globaltemps2011.jpg]

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2012 04:10 AM by Handsome Creepy Eel.)
08-10-2012 04:04 AM
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kolovrat Offline
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Post: #34
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
AGW denial is every bit as bizarre as game or HBD denial in my opinion.
08-10-2012 04:35 AM
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #35
RE: July 2012: Hottest Month on Record
This just in: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/feature...links.html

I guess NASA is in on the hoax as well.
08-14-2012 05:07 PM
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